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Dekka

Public Transfers - extension of trading hub

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since we have a trading hub with public trades, i was thinking perhaps we could add a tab or something of the sort for one-way transfers to be public as well.  it seems as if more people check the on site trading hub than they do the trading section of the forum, so i thought this may be a good way to quickly give dragons away to whomever may choose to take them.  sort of like the community notice board but on-site where whoever feels like it could take an available transfer.  to prevent giving "conditions" to who can take we could even  take away the text box so that it would only be a page of transfers with no terms of taking them.  this might be a dumb suggestion but i'm just putting it out there

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There would have to be a box in which we have to type "yes, I am aware that I am creating a PUBLIC one-way transfer and anybody can immediately take the things I am putting in this transfer", and "the current date and time is ..." (for those whose browser fills text automatically). Plus maybe a captcha or two. Then, before the transfer is really created and published, the site should play a video that shows all the eggs and hatchlings the person is trying to put in the transfer, and their codes and lineages, with a button that says "WAIT NO STOP I DID NOT MEAN THIS ONE!"

Maybe some loud metal music, too, to make sure the person is awake and not sleep-playing.

 

 

... You get what I mean. :P

 

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I don't think it's needed. There's TJ's leave and take. There's public trades where you can ask for a dummy egg. There's gifting via the forums. And, of course, there's abandoning. People who want to give conditions will still do so by using the trading hub, so it's not even a pre-emptive measure.

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But is 'gifting' through the current trading hub actually an appropriate use of the hub? There is soooo much debate right now over what is and isn't allowed in the hub, eventually I do think it would be nice to separate legit *trades* from 'gifting by trading because it's the only way we can right now'. TJ's leave and take is an external, not-official site, (that sometimes doesn't seem to work) so that's not really a great option. 

 

Of course you can simply abandon, but gifting is different then abandoning. As people tried to explain to TJ when it came up in another thread, there is definitely a different feel between the two. Abandoning, you literally abandon the dragon to die, that's literally what it says, and you just *hope* that someone will pick it up and raise it and give it a good home. Many people comb the AP specifically for zombie-fodder or neglected experiments, so tossing eggs into the AP is really not ideal if you want a better chance that someone will actually raise and keep that dragon. Of course it could be argued that one-way transfers hold the same risk since anyone can grab it and do whatever they like, but in general there is a mentality that if someone specifically accepts a specific transfer, it's because they want *that* dragon, not just grabbing any old AP egg. I personally *love* posting gifts in the departures thread, and I do it with bred eggs as well as biome-caught and even nice AP finds that I think someone here might really enjoy. It's a completely different feel then chucking dragons out to the AP to die. 

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1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

But is 'gifting' through the current trading hub actually an appropriate use of the hub? There is soooo much debate right now over what is and isn't allowed in the hub, eventually I do think it would be nice to separate legit *trades* from 'gifting by trading because it's the only way we can right now'. TJ's leave and take is an external, not-official site, (that sometimes doesn't seem to work) so that's not really a great option. 

 

Of course you can simply abandon, but gifting is different then abandoning. As people tried to explain to TJ when it came up in another thread, there is definitely a different feel between the two. Abandoning, you literally abandon the dragon to die, that's literally what it says, and you just *hope* that someone will pick it up and raise it and give it a good home. Many people comb the AP specifically for zombie-fodder or neglected experiments, so tossing eggs into the AP is really not ideal if you want a better chance that someone will actually raise and keep that dragon. Of course it could be argued that one-way transfers hold the same risk since anyone can grab it and do whatever they like, but in general there is a mentality that if someone specifically accepts a specific transfer, it's because they want *that* dragon, not just grabbing any old AP egg. I personally *love* posting gifts in the departures thread, and I do it with bred eggs as well as biome-caught and even nice AP finds that I think someone here might really enjoy. It's a completely different feel then chucking dragons out to the AP to die. 

 

Exactly this. Especially since there are a vast amount of players who don't use the forums; those people would never know about the one-way transfer threads, or TJ's Take-or-Leave (since I'm pretty sure that's only advertised on the forums??)

 

Either way, I'd totally advocate for a One-Way Hub, and would probably participate in it! It'd be nice to see somebody take my egg or hatchling, knowing that they actually wanted it. When I abandon things in the hopes somebody else will get it, you never really know what they're going to do with it, or if anybody even gets it in the first place, so it'd be great to see people actually taking a One-Way because they wanted it ^^

 

Plus, with the AP, you can't search for the things you want. If there was a One-Way Thread where people could look for the things they want, I think that'd be pretty useful. So I definitely support!

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Something that was just bred would not show up in AP for a couple days either.

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I support. I gift through the departure thread and toss to the AP, but I think the two are inherently separate. An on-site transfer hub would "ensure" that whatever I put up finds a home sooner rather than later. And TJ's leave and take is not without its share of bugs.

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I support this too. With all the rule debate for the hub, I won't be shocked if leave-a-dummy becomes bannable. No specific wants there. And I've never heard of this Leave-and-Take thing??

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This sounds like something I would use a lot. I already abandon tons of eggs as it is, meant to be "gifts". Also, just because something is on the forum does not necessarily mean everyone has access to it. People don't use the forum by choice, but they still play on the Cave. We only just had the trading hub added to the Cave, before that you mostly had to come on the forum if you wanted to trade, so I don't see much of an issue in creating a space specifically for gifting as an extension. For some people, I'd imagine gifting is a big part of the game for them.

 

I think that it would definitely have to be one-way gifting only, like you put your egg/hatchling out there and anyone can grab it. Letting people do the "dummy egg" thing seems alright on a place like the Departures thread here where you're allowed to communicate stuff like that, but it just might be a little bit weird off-forum, unless that's just me?

 

I think it would be okay to have something similar like a "wants" box where you explain your gift or something but that's it.

Edited by Tesla

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Confused Cat has the right of it though about when you create a public one way.  It has the potential to create awful problems at holiday time with lineage swaps with specific players.  Not all of which use English as primary language.  I'm on the fence if I would want such a thing (public one way teleport).

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I agree with this:

6 hours ago, olympe said:

I don't think it's needed. There's TJ's leave and take. There's public trades where you can ask for a dummy egg. There's gifting via the forums. And, of course, there's abandoning. People who want to give conditions will still do so by using the trading hub, so it's not even a pre-emptive measure.

Yes, I'm sure it would be nice to filter for eggs that you want/need, but we already have numerous gifting outlets for the same overall purpose --not just on the forum-- and it would get very cluttered very fast, making browsing almost impossible (just as it is in the Trading Hub now). Valuable things will be taken in seconds and the "unwanted" things will be left to sit and collect in the new Hub...just like the AP. Also, there's no guarantee that someone would grab an egg just because they want it and will keep it. I feel like a significant portion of the eggs gifted nowadays are Vampire/Zombie/Neglected fodder or traded, and this would be no different. So I don't think it's a necessary addition. 

 

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For those who say we already have ways to gift.... Okay, yes, but *only* off-site. Apparently there was a big enough reason to make an on-site Trading Hub, despite trading already being possible on the forums and other off-site places. Why shouldn't we also have an on-site way to gift? It doesn't make sense to me to use the argument of 'well you can gift elsewhere', when we could already *trade* elsewhere and yet that was added on-site. Obviously being able to do something off-site is not a reason to not do something on-site, otherwise the Trading Hub wouldn't exist. 

 

As far as accidental one-ways creating issues, I don't see why there couldn't simply be a warning when you go to make the teleport. Right now, when you make a one-way teleport, on the resulting teleport page is says in bold 'Any user who claims these dragons is under no obligation to give you anything in return; this is a one-way transfer.' so why not simply have a similar message, in bold, on the actual creation page when you go to make the teleport? There is no reason to believe there needs to be captchas and typing and all that, simply put a bold warning there. And if people don't *read* the warning, that's on them. Maybe it could even require a password/action the way many Actions already do. I don't see why that wouldn't be enough, if it's enough for Abandon and Kill and all that.

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I support this. I can see adding an addendum to the Trading Hub to make it Trading/Gifting. Set up a way to filter by one-way transfers and species, and it would serve the purpose, I think. Give users the chance to gift and trade in one place, just like what we have on the forum.

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Yea, I wouldn't mind this, and suggested it in the other thread myself haha. My only caveat would be there being NO text box for one-way gifts - so people can't impose terms on what the new owner can do with eggs.

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3 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

As far as accidental one-ways creating issues, I don't see why there couldn't simply be a warning when you go to make the teleport. Right now, when you make a one-way teleport, on the resulting teleport page is says in bold 'Any user who claims these dragons is under no obligation to give you anything in return; this is a one-way transfer.' so why not simply have a similar message, in bold, on the actual creation page when you go to make the teleport? There is no reason to believe there needs to be captchas and typing and all that, simply put a bold warning there. And if people don't *read* the warning, that's on them. Maybe it could even require a password/action the way many Actions already do. I don't see why that wouldn't be enough, if it's enough for Abandon and Kill and all that.

I think you missed the point I was making.  It isn't the fact it is a one way, it's the possible confusion between a public one way and a private one way where you specifically give the link to the intended recipient.  During the holidays one and two way teleports are used extensively by lineage people to trade eggs.  It would be devastating to accidentally make an intended one way teleport a public one and that year's breeding for the pair is lost.  Keep in mind that many of the people I trade with have english as a 2nd language and things can get lost in translation.

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Well, when you go to make a teleport it specifically says 'trade' and 'public trade', and the 'public trade' button specifically says that it will be posted in the trading hub.... I don't know just how much can get lost in translation, but is

Create a two-way trade that will also be listed in the Trading Hub, allowing others to find it without you directly sharing it with them.

that not clear enough? If there was the same type of text when you make a public one-way? I have to figure the current distinction between 'trade' and 'public trade' is clear enough for most people, otherwise there would probably be a lot more posts complaining about accidentally posting to the hub.

 

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2 hours ago, Kaini said:

Yea, I wouldn't mind this, and suggested it in the other thread myself haha. My only caveat would be there being NO text box for one-way gifts - so people can't impose terms on what the new owner can do with eggs.

 

Yes - I think it would need that. Too many people seem to think they can dictate terms like that. TBH, although I would only take an egg I actually wanted, I am sometimes inclined to take one I don't want and vamp it just because the owner said not to... (I have never said I was a nice person. Many of you already say I am not :lol: )

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If the gifting hub were a thing, I think that it would be good to have a time limit for how long a gift is allowed to stay up in order to reduce cluttering. Though gifts can be a nice gesture, sometimes there are no takers and after a certain period of time, the gift should be taken down automatically. Any thoughts on that?

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7 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Well, when you go to make a teleport it specifically says 'trade' and 'public trade', and the 'public trade' button specifically says that it will be posted in the trading hub.... I don't know just how much can get lost in translation, but is

Create a two-way trade that will also be listed in the Trading Hub, allowing others to find it without you directly sharing it with them.

that not clear enough? If there was the same type of text when you make a public one-way? I have to figure the current distinction between 'trade' and 'public trade' is clear enough for most people, otherwise there would probably be a lot more posts complaining about accidentally posting to the hub.

 

Something like this should work. I don't think there's that much confusion when choosing between hub trades and private trades right now. I'd also be okay with no text box.

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19 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

But is 'gifting' through the current trading hub actually an appropriate use of the hub? There is soooo much debate right now over what is and isn't allowed in the hub, eventually I do think it would be nice to separate legit *trades* from 'gifting by trading because it's the only way we can right now'. TJ's leave and take is an external, not-official site, (that sometimes doesn't seem to work) so that's not really a great option.

How can "gifting" through the trading hub in exchange for a random ('dummy') egg be an inappropriate use of the hub? If I want to send away 3rd gen prizes for 'dummy' eggs to random people, there's no rule (written or unwritten) telling me that I have to ask for more in exchange for my eggs. Because it's my eggs, my business. 

 

11 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

For those who say we already have ways to gift.... Okay, yes, but *only* off-site. Apparently there was a big enough reason to make an on-site Trading Hub, despite trading already being possible on the forums and other off-site places. Why shouldn't we also have an on-site way to gift? It doesn't make sense to me to use the argument of 'well you can gift elsewhere', when we could already *trade* elsewhere and yet that was added on-site. Obviously being able to do something off-site is not a reason to not do something on-site, otherwise the Trading Hub wouldn't exist. 

 

As far as accidental one-ways creating issues, I don't see why there couldn't simply be a warning when you go to make the teleport. Right now, when you make a one-way teleport, on the resulting teleport page is says in bold 'Any user who claims these dragons is under no obligation to give you anything in return; this is a one-way transfer.' so why not simply have a similar message, in bold, on the actual creation page when you go to make the teleport? There is no reason to believe there needs to be captchas and typing and all that, simply put a bold warning there. And if people don't *read* the warning, that's on them. Maybe it could even require a password/action the way many Actions already do. I don't see why that wouldn't be enough, if it's enough for Abandon and Kill and all that.

We can still gift through the on-site trading hub...

 

Also, there's such a thing as muscle memory and skipping the same old, same old messages when performing a routine action (like creating a one-way teleport). So, you want to create a private one-way teleport, you misclick and accidentally get the page to the public one-way teleport. The only difference on the page is a slight variation in the warning text, which you skip. Because, after skimming over the first 2 to 5 words, you 'recognize' it as the message you're used to see for private teleports.

 

If public one-way teleports happen, please put the available teleport options in the following order to avoid misclicks as much as possible:

  • private one-way teleports
  • private two-way teleports
  • public two-way teleports
  • public one-way teleports

Another nice little safety measure (that doesn't make players jump through hoops unnecessarily) would be a one-minute waiting period before a public one-way teleport actually shows up on the gifting hub.

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I love the idea of one-way Public Transfers! That way I don't have to put FREE in the title of the egg I'm giving away, while still asking for a dummy because I have to. I can literally just let anyone take it. Saying it's free, but making someone offer a dummy...well...I feel like a liar. And a lot of people don't have forum accounts, so the public free transfers would be very useful to those folks. 

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Why bother with putting "free", then ? Just put "want a dummy." That pretty much says it's free; no-one ASKS for a dummy to keep XD

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58 minutes ago, olympe said:

Also, there's such a thing as muscle memory and skipping the same old, same old messages when performing a routine action (like creating a one-way teleport). So, you want to create a private one-way teleport, you misclick and accidentally get the page to the public one-way teleport. The only difference on the page is a slight variation in the warning text, which you skip. Because, after skimming over the first 2 to 5 words, you 'recognize' it as the message you're used to see for private teleports.

 

If public one-way teleports happen, please put the available teleport options in the following order to avoid misclicks as much as possible:

  • private one-way teleports
  • private two-way teleports
  • public two-way teleports
  • public one-way teleports

Another nice little safety measure (that doesn't make players jump through hoops unnecessarily) would be a one-minute waiting period before a public one-way teleport actually shows up on the gifting hub.

 

 

While I do understand muscle memory and skipping over stuff you've read a bajillion times, if there was a *new*, bolded message, like the one I mentioned similar to the current public-trade message, that specifies that public one-ways will show up in the public hub and can be claimed with no further input... Would that be okay? Also, it might be a good idea to require confirmation on public ones-ways, since they *can* be claimed with no further input and that is irreversible, much like the irreversible actions we already have confirmations for (kill, abandon, etc).

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