ANSWERED:Can We Please Have Prizes Available in the Market

[osmarks]

Just now, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

 

 

Can you elaborate on how?

Prizes being available in the market will:

1. reduce the economic problem produced by stupidly valuable stuff being provided at random
2. provide tangible goals to work towards instead of just crossing your fingers every month
3. tie obtaining such a rare thing to actually playing the game a bit more
4. make lineage builders happier

[Ruby Eyes]

1 hour ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

CB hybrids and breedable alts don't make any sense

Why not? Who do you think runs the market, narratively? It's certainly not the wilderness itself (which is usually the go-to argument against hybrids in the cave - that the parents wouldn't mate in the wilderness). The market is run by someone who's charging you ~4000 shards for a Gold egg. I don't see why that someone wouldn't be able - or willing - to breed a hybrid for sale.

(not that this is actually part of this topic - Prizes)

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, osmarks said:

I think that the benefits of market prizes outweigh the slight inconsistency produced.

 

25 minutes ago, osmarks said:

Prizes being available in the market will:

1. reduce the economic problem produced by stupidly valuable stuff being provided at random
2. provide tangible goals to work towards instead of just crossing your fingers every month
3. tie obtaining such a rare thing to actually playing the game a bit more
4. make lineage builders happier

 

 

This. Yes. Exactly. If one of the main arguments here is 'they don't drop in the cave so they shouldn't be in the Market', I think the huge benefits far outweigh the tiny little inconsistency there. Also, I must point out that just because the Market was *originally* supposed to be only breeds found in the cave, that doesn't at all mean that's how it *always* should be. Tons of things in this game used to be one way and then changed, and changed for the better. Heck, we didn't used to be able to reliably trade between users at all, we had to take our chances on AP-trading. Nowadays most users know how valuable Teleport is. Just because something was introduced to the game one way doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever, or can't *benefit* from being changed a little.

 

That also applies to Prizes, actually. Just because they *used* to be this super-special super-limited thing that only a tiny amount of people would ever have, doesn't mean it has stayed that way (see: raffles every single month) and doesn't mean it *should* be that way.

Edited August 21, 2018 by HeatherMarie

[nerdysalad]

I'm a relatively new player to Dragon Cave, so I may not understand a lot of the sentiment towards the topic (and I haven't been here long enough to accurately tell how people feel about this) so please don't hate me, but I was wondering if alternate solutions could exist? (again I don't know if these have been suggested before?) 

 

Firstly, I want to establish that I fully support that prizes should be special and the lucky ones who do get it should have an advantage. That being said, I also believe that everybody should be able to get one eventually. I still think it's unfair for some users who have been active for so long to never get one, even after say 8+ years of playing. 

 

So I was thinking..What if:

1) The market will offer you an option of buying a prize dragon (I still think it should be really expensive like even 10k+) if you haven't ever gotten a CB prize dragon in say X number of years of playing. That way it will be accessible but only if you have never won one in X many years. I think that way it's still special and will help counteract the randomness that could keep you from ever getting a prize.

and

2) Market prizes are not able to be bred. I know that sounds harsh and many may disagree and believe it a horrid idea, but again I don't like the idea that somebody could never get one in all their years of playing. This way, you can get a CB prize, but you will not have the advantage of creating lineages with it, which is an advantage reserved to the special lucky players who actually win the raffle. This will keep the specialness of winning a raffle and creating 2G prizes/ lineages with the prizes.

 

Again, I just wanted to pitch my thoughts so please don't get angry with me. Perhaps there is some logical fallacy in my reasoning, so some feedback would be nice though.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

1 hour ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Why not? Who do you think runs the market, narratively? It's certainly not the wilderness itself (which is usually the go-to argument against hybrids in the cave - that the parents wouldn't mate in the wilderness). The market is run by someone who's charging you ~4000 shards for a Gold egg. I don't see why that someone wouldn't be able - or willing - to breed a hybrid for sale.

(not that this is actually part of this topic - Prizes)

 

(Haha, I agree this is off-topic, but-) That market-runner would have to have got the hybrid from two dragons. Therefore, it would have parents, and as such, could not be cave-bred. Whereas hybrids I can sorta understand why people would support having CB versions of, I don’t think it’s fair to have CB breedable alts. They should be obtained through merit - through you breeding your own dragons and it all being paid off when you finally get that alt. I’m just really against being able to purchase that.

 

(Prizes, however, were never based on merit, which is why I’m against them in the market!)

Edited August 21, 2018 by RealWilliamShakespeare

[Ruby Eyes]

7 minutes ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

Therefore, it would have parents, and as such, could not be cave-bred.

... even wild dragons have parents, only we, the humans, don't know their names ... we STEAL these eggs from under their parents' sit-upons, after all.

And since the Market trader doesn't tell you an egg's parents, you don't know them either. It could be a real mess you're getting, you just do not know.

 

Seriously ... I don't think the forest trees are pooping out all those Harvest eggs ...

Edited August 21, 2018 by Ruby Eyes

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

1 minute ago, Ruby Eyes said:

... even wild dragons have parents, only we, the humans, don't know their names ... we STEAL these eggs from under their parents' sit-upons, after all.

And since the Market trader doesn't tell you an egg's parents, you don't know them either. It could be a real mess you're getting, you just do not know.

 

I suppose you’re right - it just doesn’t seem right to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Ngl I think this is worth having its own Suggestions thread for if enough people want to see it.

[Tetelestai]

If putting prizes on the market will never happen, could we maybe have prizes given to members who have been here for a certain amount of years? Gold prize for reaching 10+ years (only one given), silver prize for 5 (again, one given) and then bronze given after being on dragcave for a year. They wouldn't be able to be made for trade. Just a thought.

[tjekan]

1 hour ago, lucidapple said:

If putting prizes on the market will never happen, could we maybe have prizes given to members who have been here for a certain amount of years? Gold prize for reaching 10+ years (only one given), silver prize for 5 (again, one given) and then bronze given after being on dragcave for a year. They wouldn't be able to be made for trade. Just a thought.

 

As someone who's been here for 10 years, I regretfully have to disagree with that. Those of us who've been around that long already have many advantages. Some of them are being addressed by the rerelease of old holiday dragons and discontinued models and so on, but the amount of work a new player would have to do to catch up to where I'm at now is still immense. And then I'm going to get a full set of CB prizes handed to me in addition to that, while the new player still has to wait around hoping to win a raffle? No, that's not a nice idea. If they were in the marketplace, then at least everyone would start on an even footing to afford one. If TJ doesn't want to do that then he doesn't, but an unfair distribution rewarding the players who already have the most isn't the answer.

[HeatherMarie]

2 hours ago, tjekan said:

 

As someone who's been here for 10 years, I regretfully have to disagree with that. Those of us who've been around that long already have many advantages. Some of them are being addressed by the rerelease of old holiday dragons and discontinued models and so on, but the amount of work a new player would have to do to catch up to where I'm at now is still immense. And then I'm going to get a full set of CB prizes handed to me in addition to that, while the new player still has to wait around hoping to win a raffle? No, that's not a nice idea. If they were in the marketplace, then at least everyone would start on an even footing to afford one. If TJ doesn't want to do that then he doesn't, but an unfair distribution rewarding the players who already have the most isn't the answer.

 

Agree. I've mentioned before how I already have pretty huge advantages in this game simply because I'm able to play for literally 5+ hours every single day, and that's not necessarily something I'm proud of. The advantages part, I mean. To me, the suggestion of Prizes in the Market is to help level a really unbalanced playing field, so simply handing them out to people just because they've been here for awhile is actually still keeping that extreme unbalance, just in a different way. Some players would be able to get the 'best of the best', Gold Prize, the second that was implemented, while others would have to wait 10 years to be eligible for one. The wonderful thing about them being in the Market is that people would be able to work towards them and actively *do* something to earn them, being active enough to earn enough shards, and because the Market is relatively new there isn't a huge unbalance where tons of people would immediately be able to buy one. 

 

 

5 hours ago, nerdysalad said:

 

So I was thinking..What if:

1) The market will offer you an option of buying a prize dragon (I still think it should be really expensive like even 10k+) if you haven't ever gotten a CB prize dragon in say X number of years of playing. That way it will be accessible but only if you have never won one in X many years. I think that way it's still special and will help counteract the randomness that could keep you from ever getting a prize.

and

2) Market prizes are not able to be bred. I know that sounds harsh and many may disagree and believe it a horrid idea, but again I don't like the idea that somebody could never get one in all their years of playing. This way, you can get a CB prize, but you will not have the advantage of creating lineages with it, which is an advantage reserved to the special lucky players who actually win the raffle. This will keep the specialness of winning a raffle and creating 2G prizes/ lineages with the prizes.

 

 

As for this idea.... While I do not at all agree with the reasoning behind it (that raffle wins should stay special and keep a huge advantage over everyone else) I personally would be *fine* with bought Prizes being unable to breed. I have a feeling I'm pretty much the only other person in this thread that would say that, though. A good percentage of long-time players are only still active because of lineages, they've caught all the breeds and met all their collecting goals and now their focus is only on lineages. So those unbreedable Prizes would be completely worthless to them. 

[tjekan]

35 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

Some players would be able to get the 'best of the best', Gold Prize, the second that was implemented, while others would have to wait 10 years to be eligible for one.

 

And 10 years is such an eternity on the Internet anyway. Who could guarantee the game's even still going to be here in another 10 years? If TJ wanted to do something to reward long-term players for 5 or 10 years playing, that would be a really good use of a badge, which would just sit up there with all the others looking cute and not imbalancing gameplay in any way. 🙂

[StarlightLion]

7 hours ago, nerdysalad said:

Market prizes are not able to be bred. I know that sounds harsh and many may disagree and believe it a horrid idea, but again I don't like the idea that somebody could never get one in all their years of playing. This way, you can get a CB prize, but you will not have the advantage of creating lineages with it, which is an advantage reserved to the special lucky players who actually win the raffle. This will keep the specialness of winning a raffle and creating 2G prizes/ lineages with the prizes.

 

While I understand the reasoning behind this idea (to ensure that the raffle winners continue to feel *special* for having their number pulled) this would make the presence of CB Prizes in the Marketplace an asset only for those users whose long term goals are CB collection and nothing else. Not to mention that it does nothing to address the absolutely immense economic inbalance that we have at the moment regarding Prizes and 2G trading thereof.

Also (not as relevant but in my own interests) I would be so disappointed to see them implemented this way just because all of my Prize goals involve lineages, so an unbreedable Prize is worthless to me. (The same reason I hit my collection goals for Unbreedables and immediately stopped caring about them).

[osmarks]

@nerdysalad That idea almost completely defeats the point.

[Fuzzbucket]

10 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

 

 

Can you elaborate on how?

 

⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️

 

10 hours ago, osmarks said:

Prizes being available in the market will:

1. reduce the economic problem produced by stupidly valuable stuff being provided at random
2. provide tangible goals to work towards instead of just crossing your fingers every month
3. tie obtaining such a rare thing to actually playing the game a bit more
4. make lineage builders happier

 OK ?

 

10 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

This. Yes. Exactly. If one of the main arguments here is 'they don't drop in the cave so they shouldn't be in the Market', I think the huge benefits far outweigh the tiny little inconsistency there. Also, I must point out that just because the Market was *originally* supposed to be only breeds found in the cave, that doesn't at all mean that's how it *always* should be. Tons of things in this game used to be one way and then changed, and changed for the better. Heck, we didn't used to be able to reliably trade between users at all, we had to take our chances on AP-trading. Nowadays most users know how valuable Teleport is. Just because something was introduced to the game one way doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever, or can't *benefit* from being changed a little.

 

That also applies to Prizes, actually. Just because they *used* to be this super-special super-limited thing that only a tiny amount of people would ever have, doesn't mean it has stayed that way (see: raffles every single month) and doesn't mean it *should* be that way.

 

Exactly. While I am often averse to change, this is one change I want to see.

 

10 hours ago, nerdysalad said:

2) Market prizes are not able to be bred. I know that sounds harsh and many may disagree and believe it a horrid idea, but again I don't like the idea that somebody could never get one in all their years of playing. This way, you can get a CB prize, but you will not have the advantage of creating lineages with it, which is an advantage reserved to the special lucky players who actually win the raffle. This will keep the specialness of winning a raffle and creating 2G prizes/ lineages with the prizes.

 

 

1 hour ago, osmarks said:

@nerdysalad That idea almost completely defeats the point.

 

Right on.  No way do we need a dragon that only SPECIAL people can breed.

[osmarks]

9 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

 

(Haha, I agree this is off-topic, but-) That market-runner would have to have got the hybrid from two dragons. Therefore, it would have parents, and as such, could not be cave-bred. Whereas hybrids I can sorta understand why people would support having CB versions of, I don’t think it’s fair to have CB breedable alts. They should be obtained through merit - through you breeding your own dragons and it all being paid off when you finally get that alt. I’m just really against being able to purchase that.

 

(Prizes, however, were never based on merit, which is why I’m against them in the market!)

I just re-read this... you're against purchasing one category because it's obtainable via merit but also against purchasing another because they're... not merit-based?

[purplehaze]

15 hours ago, nerdysalad said:

2) Market prizes are not able to be bred. I know that sounds harsh and many may disagree and believe it a horrid idea, but again I don't like the idea that somebody could never get one in all their years of playing. This way, you can get a CB prize, but you will not have the advantage of creating lineages with it, which is an advantage reserved to the special lucky players who actually win the raffle. This will keep the specialness of winning a raffle and creating 2G prizes/ lineages with the prizes.

 

I don't know who would buy a market Prize that could not breed. The whole purpose of wanting to buy them in the market is to be able to breed 2nd gens and build lineages. If you can't do that I for one would have absolutely no interest in them at any price.

Edited August 22, 2018 by purplehaze

[Jazeki]

While I really want prizes in the market, I would not buy one that doesn't breed. I have the bare minimum of unbreedables for scroll completion. I would much rather have a breedable prize so I could share the wealth and other people could have nice low lines of their own to build from.

 

(Also yes plz always to hms in the market)

[animatedrose]

I have to agree. Having prizes that can't breed at all...really defeats the purpose. Certain breed mechanics not allowing breeding, like NDs, is acceptable because that's part of the dragon itself. Not letting bought prizes bred because they were bought and not handed out via raffle is...stupid and defeats any point of wanting to get a prize.

 

As a prize winner, I'm not for or against prizes being in the Market. But I would NEVER want people who bought prizes to be kicked off the breeding boat just because I got lucky getting mine and they had to work to get theirs. That just breeds even more hate against prize winners, which I doubt anybody wants. I'd rather kill my prize and call it done than get attacked constantly because my prize can breed and 99% of the userbase's prizes can't.

[Shadowdrake]

What if a market prize were breedable but its kids not tradeable, only ap-able? I know it makes sharing lineages almost impossible but I'm curious what you all think.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Shadowdrake

[Starscream]

On 8/21/2018 at 6:49 PM, lucidapple said:

If putting prizes on the market will never happen, could we maybe have prizes given to members who have been here for a certain amount of years? Gold prize for reaching 10+ years (only one given), silver prize for 5 (again, one given) and then bronze given after being on dragcave for a year. They wouldn't be able to be made for trade. Just a thought.

The only real drawback I can see with this is that Multi-scrollers could easily benefit. And if there is a prize due to time spent, then it would need to be an altogether different dragon.

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, Shadowdrake said:

What if a market prize were breedable but its kids not tradeable, only ap-able? I know it makes sharing lineages almost impossible but I'm curious what you all think.

 

Or even maybe not *tradeable* but transferable? Like, you can gift, but you can't *trade*? 

 

(Me personally, I'd be fine with pretty much any restrictions on Market Prizes, but that's because I don't care about tradeability and lineages and such. I have a feeling the majority of active players wouldn't like unbreedable Prizes, or untradeable Prizes, but I'd take anything if it meant Prizes in the Market.)

[Tetelestai]

3 hours ago, Starscream said:

The only real drawback I can see with this is that Multi-scrollers could easily benefit. And if there is a prize due to time spent, then it would need to be an altogether different dragon.

That's what I mean that they wouldn't be for trade to prevent multi-scrolling. A different dragon all together would be cool. I don't remember when I joined, but my oldest dragon is from February 2010. Would be an interesting idea.

[tjekan]

One of the benefits of having CB prizes available in the market is that it would give a boost to trading, which has been anemic lately. More people able to produce 2nd-gen prizes would mean a livelier trade in 2nd-gen prizes. This would be even more true if CB hybrids or alts were available in the market (thus giving more people things to trade that most other players don't have.)

 

For that reason, I wouldn't want to see eggs from the market be infertile. It would defeat one of the main gameplay benefits of making special eggs available in the market in the first place.

[Starscream]

7 minutes ago, lucidapple said:

That's what I mean that they wouldn't be for trade to prevent multi-scrolling. A different dragon all together would be cool. I don't remember when I joined, but my oldest dragon is from February 2010. Would be an interesting idea.

the other way to combat it would be making them unbreedable as well

[purplehaze]

5 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

What if a market prize were breedable but its kids not tradeable, only ap-able? I know it makes sharing lineages almost impossible but I'm curious what you all think.

Then building lineages would depend on being able to catch the right 2nd gens in the AP? No thanks! If it doesn't make building lineages any easier then I see no point at all in having the Prizes in the market. 

 

And I really dislike the idea of giving Prizes to people who have played a long time, even though I am one of those people. It is just a bad idea for all the reasons that others have already mentioned.