ANSWERED:Can We Please Have Prizes Available in the Market

[Kaini]

14 minutes ago, Syiren said:

Thank you! This is how I feel about the Prizes. They are special and if I ever win one it'll make my day. That's the joy of the personal challenge I was referring to. That moment when you obtain it, it's such an amazing feeling that can't be replicated with simply buying it. 

 

It's like when playing a pokemon game, you go into the grass to continue your journey, or train your team and out pops a shiny! You didn't expect it, but it's so rare you're excited to catch it!

 

^ 

 

Plus as someone who has played for years and has thousands of dragons, the game gets stale if there's nothing else to work for or try for, hope for. I like the raffles for that reason - there's still something to keep trying for even though I have every dragon breed, including NDs. 

[Mizashi]

2 hours ago, Ashura09 said:

Tbh, as an original Shimmerscale prize winner, it seems kinda stupid to have them in the market. These are special dragons FOR A REASON. I feel dragons like these should really be up to luck, to preserve their status as PRIZES. You don't win carnival prizes by paying the carnie more money, and that is almost what it would be like if they were placed on the market. Sure, it might not be REAL money, but it still takes away the suspense.

 

It just feels wrong to have prize dragons be treated like most of the other dragons. They are special. They should stay that way. If people can just "buy" them, then it gives those of us who had gotten lucky a big middle finger. I am super proud of getting a shimmer the first year they were released. I think of it as a great achievement, even though it was entirely by luck. I want other people to feel the same way as I did when I got that email. Winning a prize is special, but being able to buy one takes that away and makes it less of a game. And that is sorta what this site is; a game.

I feel like I have to agree as well. I'm seeing in this thread that people's definitions of "prize" and "special" have different interpretations according to individual playing styles, but I assume (and hopefully I'm not wrong) that the original intention of releasing these dragons was to reward a select number of people who all participated equally, or as equally as possible anyway (since I wasn't around for the first contests so I don't know too much about how horrible those were). Therefore, they win a special prize that one can't normally catch.

 

I'm not going to lie: I'm not a fan of "pay to win" type of games, and I mean both in the literal and figurative sense. Literal as in paying actual money and also figuratively as in, grinding for in-game currency to buy one. Maybe it's just me and my short term patience, but I've always liked the random nature of DC: everyone fighting for the same eggs in the moment, and everyone fighting for the same chance at winning a CB prize in the raffle monthly. Yes, you could argue that it's never technically going to be equal since one person's internet speed is different than someone else's, thus affecting a chance at snatching the same egg, but raffles don't apply in this case. All you need to do is raise a minimum of 3 dragons to enter, and that should be something anyone should be able to do in a month's timespan. It's "fair" in that sense, without forcing someone to grind for shards for potentially months or even years just to get 1 dragon. I would hate to do that, but I know I'm gonna do that anyway, because... well, that's what we're all going to do if we want a surefire way of getting a CB prize, right? And that's when I will simply resign myself to thinking of earning shards as only a chore just to accomplish an end goal, and that's what'll kill the fun for me. My personality is the type to absolutely detest that long of a commitment in a game. I know other people will view it the complete opposite way, though, so I just wanted to give my own feelings out there too. If I didn't win the raffle for that month, I would shrug, move on, and continue playing how I've always played on DC.

 

I personally am just glad that there are more CB prizes available in general, because all I've ever wanted to do was collect 2G offsprings so I could start my own lineages. With the addition of more owners, their market value should gradually lower enough that you could eventually trade for one without the need for CB Golds/Silver equivalents and whatnot. Obviously we're not quite there yet, but I believe we're heading toward that trend, and that makes me happy enough. Of course owning a CB prize helps a lot as leverage, but that was never my biggest focus in the game. But I do know for others it is. So I'm all for tweaking the raffle entry requirements if we want to reduce the number of entries from those who barely give any effort to participate and raise 3 dragons to enter, but then we want to be careful not to ostracize those who play DC consistently for other reasons (i.e., having a requirement of raising a minimum of 20 adult dragons could exclude those who only catch and freeze hatchlings, or mainly trade eggs around for fun, etcera, a point already made by someone else in this thread). If there's a better way of going about increasing chances for everyone to win the raffle, I'd be glad to have it.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Mizashi
wording and phrasing and stuff

[HeatherMarie]

5 hours ago, Ashura09 said:

Tbh, as an original Shimmerscale prize winner, it seems kinda stupid to have them in the market. These are special dragons FOR A REASON. I feel dragons like these should really be up to luck, to preserve their status as PRIZES. You don't win carnival prizes by paying the carnie more money, and that is almost what it would be like if they were placed on the market. Sure, it might not be REAL money, but it still takes away the suspense.

 

It just feels wrong to have prize dragons be treated like most of the other dragons. They are special. They should stay that way. If people can just "buy" them, then it gives those of us who had gotten lucky a big middle finger. I am super proud of getting a shimmer the first year they were released. I think of it as a great achievement, even though it was entirely by luck. I want other people to feel the same way as I did when I got that email. Winning a prize is special, but being able to buy one takes that away and makes it less of a game. And that is sorta what this site is; a game.

 

See, I would completely agree with this view.... If the raffles hadn't come back. If CB Prize winners were *only* limited to those who won the holiday raffles in the past, then I'd see it as a special limited-time dragon that a few people were lucky enough to have but it's not possible now so oh well. 

 

But that's not the case anymore. CB Prizes *are* becoming less and less 'special' in terms of simple rarity/numbers, because every single month we get more winners. Were they designed to be 'special' in the beginning? Maybe. I don't know what the spriters themselves were thinking, but maybe they were supposed to be special and limited-time. But they *aren't* like that anymore. They are given out every single month, for doing absolutely nothing but clicking a button. I don't see how that's so 'special' that allowing them to be bought once every year or two would decrease that 'specialness' drastically. 

 

CB Prizes are no longer these limited-time once-in-a-lifetime PRIZES, they are consistent prizes handed out every single month. The way I see it, dragons that were given out once or twice and then never again would be *special*. Dragons that are given out every single month, not so much. If DC lasts for another 50-odd years, *every single user* will be able to win a CB Prize. So no, I totally don't understand the whole 'it's special' it's a great achievement', because how on earth is it special when it's completely random, happens every single month, and will eventually lead to every single user owning one? 

 

If a dragon breed is currently available, ie not just a limited-time past prize, then imo they should be *available* in realistic numbers and realistic ways. As I said, if DC is around for another 50-odd years, every single currently active user would most likely have a CB Prize by then..... But that's ridiculous, isn't it? That's not realistic, for human lifespan or an internet game's lifespan. Instead of relying on pure random luck in tiny itty bitty numbers, if a breed is going to be available it should be available in a way that people can actually work towards. 

 

(Frankly, I would've been much more happier with the entire CB Prize issue if the raffles had never come back, but now that they are..... Yeah.)

 

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

58 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

(Frankly, I would've been much more happier with the entire CB Prize issue if the raffles had never come back, but now that they are..... Yeah.)

 

 

This so much. I have spoken  out against the raffles ever since the trade market started to be totally skewed by the prizes. It;'s a little better these days - but even so.

 

5 hours ago, Kaini said:

 

^ Plus as someone who has played for years and has thousands of dragons, the game gets stale if there's nothing else to work for or try for, hope for. I like the raffles for that reason - there's still something to keep trying for even though I have every dragon breed, including NDs. 

 

That's the point, though. You don't get to TRY. Only to hope - forlornly, 99% of the time.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[MissK.]

6 hours ago, Ashura09 said:

Tbh, as an original Shimmerscale prize winner, it seems kinda stupid to have them in the market. These are special dragons FOR A REASON. I feel dragons like these should really be up to luck, to preserve their status as PRIZES. You don't win carnival prizes by paying the carnie more money, and that is almost what it would be like if they were placed on the market. Sure, it might not be REAL money, but it still takes away the suspense.

  

It just feels wrong to have prize dragons be treated like most of the other dragons. They are special. They should stay that way. If people can just "buy" them, then it gives those of us who had gotten lucky a big middle finger. I am super proud of getting a shimmer the first year they were released. I think of it as a great achievement, even though it was entirely by luck. I want other people to feel the same way as I did when I got that email. Winning a prize is special, but being able to buy one takes that away and makes it less of a game. And that is sorta what this site is; a game.

 

As an original Tinsel prize winner, I disagree. A prize in this context, to me, is something special because it was given to you for free. It's not an award like a trophy or medal that is unique to the person who won it because they achieved something special, it's just a nice little bonus that you just so happened to be lucky enough to get. Raffles generally don't give out things that are unobtainable in any other way; even if we talk about extremely expensive cars or whatever in real life, those are still things anyone could potentially save up to buy with a ton of dedication. That is all people are asking for. Winning a prize dragon is still special, in the same way that winning a vacation in Bali is special because you didn't have to struggle for who knows how long to get it, it comes as a delightful surprise. That doesn't mean everyone else in the world shouldn't be allowed to achieve the same if they work hard enough.

 

I've experienced the joy of winning, and yes I want that for more people (imo the raffles shouldn't stop even if prizes are in store - maybe fewer winners though?). But in my personal experience being a collector I can tell you the long term satisfaction I would get from being able to get CBs of all prizes from the shop would be much greater.

[Dracaena]

First I want to say I am happy we have the market, and hope the biome specific eggs find their way in soon.  I don't anyone think I am against having the market.

 

I'm going to take a trip down memory lane, which contrary to popular belief isn't always rosy.  I joined dragon cave the summer after the first prize raffle and was puzzled by all the trade posts loudly proclaiming Don't ask me about my prize!  Tinsels were nice dragons but I didn't get what all the hoopla was about.  All I was interested in was finding someone who would trade me a silver dragon, I really didn't give a hoot about a tinsel.  I did eventually trade for an even gen tinsel and had a heck of a time hunting the bsa pinks to pay off my IOU for it.  This was when I was new and hadn't really gotten the hang of cave hunting.  But pay the IOU off I did and that one tinsel was enough for me at the time (sadly the person I traded with went inactive when names were removed from scrolls and my tinsel's parents are now unnamed).  I failed in my quest then to find a silver trade,  finally got my first silver as a gift from The Giving Tree. 

 

I didn't care about getting gold dragons, I thought they were rather ugly though looked nice in an even gen lineage.  I mostly stayed away when the gold sprite update happened as I wasn't that interested in the breed, I find the newer one marginally better though the male is still ugly.  And I hoped that horrid uproar was enough to keep any other sprite updates at bay.  I was wrong.

 

When shimmerscales were introduced I thought they were drop dead gorgeous (still do).  I amassed a stupid number of stairstep shimmerscale fails, anything to get that beautiful sprite and I no way could pay the trade prices for a shimmer then.  I even had the good fortune to catch a cb gold around that time and offered it for a 2nd gen shimmer not expecting any response.  To my surprise I did get a shimmer owner who told me they would breed their shimmer on an IOU basis and I sent my gold egg off to them.  I am not complaining, I know IOU are not supported and it was my own risk but I only got a middle finger for that gold egg.  I consoled myself with my lovely silvers and kept working on my lineages with them.  

 

Then the unspeakable happened.  I checked my scroll one morning to find an alien hatchling sitting there in place of my baby silver.  I was heartbroken.  I retired my silver collection, as I am not into westernized chrome dragons.  This left me with shimmer scales as the best eastern dragon in the game, curses they had to be a confounded prize.  I understand the market is too new and prizes aren't on the table now.  I hope in time that may be reevaluated.  

 

I have one significant (to me) request regarding the raffle.  Please let us pick if we are entering raffle for tinsel or shimmer or both.  I don't want a tinsel and it would be killer to finally get a win and discover it's the one I don't want.

[Dubious]

I am not sure about having the Prize Dragons buy able.

 

I was here here (like a few others) when the original Tinsels were introduced in 2011 and I fell in love with them and then the shimmers when they appeared and I fell doubly in love. That is more then seven years that I have longed for a CB Tinsel or CB Shimmer, that a a very long time to wait and hope in a collecting game. So I was really happy to see the raffles introduced monthly, at least I get a chance a month of winning the 'dream' dragon, even a very tiny chance.

 

To be honest I think that making the 'dream' dragon buy able would remove so much of the joy in finally 'winning' one. It would be nice to keep the Prize Dragons at least somewhat exclusive and separate from the rest or they will loose their uniqueness.

 

I do however think that it would be fairer if people could only win the raffle once. If people could only win the raffle once and then not enter again, it would reduce the number of people who can enter the raffle and therefore increase the chances for those that have never won before.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Dubious

[Ruby Eyes]

Some random thoughts on Prizes:

 

I actually like the idea that for every Prize won by someone who already has one from a previous raffle, another Prize would be added to the pool to be won by a new winner.

(I forgot whose idea this was originally, sorry)

 

Original Prize winners can still feel "specialer" since they were able to pick a code (I know not everyone did, but still).

(Actually, I'd love to buy a *code* from the market on any regular in-cave breed ...)

 

I would totally buy a Shimmer from the Market if I could - unless CB hybrids/breed-onlies were available, in which case I'd spend all my shards on those

[StarlightLion]

I fully support the idea of having CB Prizes available in the Market, even if priced astronomically high. (I don't personally care whether a Prize came from the Market or the Cave and so that aspect wouldn't affect me much, although those people who do care about it will always be able to tell, so I see no problem there). I'd even be okay with the Prize colour being random (less so with the Shimmer vs Tin decision being random, because they are different breeds but for the sake of this post, I'll live with it).

 

And here's why.

 

Firstly, my personal reasons for wanting CB Prizes available is 100% because of breeding reasons. I have a particular interest in Snows and Floral-Crowned lineages (I don't know if you could tell by my signature haha) and I want a few lines with Prizes, because I adore how they look together. I currently own This Shimmerscale (which, just by the by, I traded somewhere between twelve and fifteen hatchlings for, and she's 3EG, not 2G, trading value varies wildly for any individual based on what the individual Prize owner is willing to do, but in a general, blanket statement sense, they are incredibly expensive). I love in the vain hope of ever getting the 2Gs to Beed her a mate. I would absolutely be delighted, but getting Holiday mates is already difficult, and I've already found it incredibly difficult finding 3G checker kin for my collections, even with common breeds, or breeds I'd expect to have been paired with them. (Obviously this only applies to Snows right now, but I expect more of the same with Floral-Crowned).

I know that they are technically 'available' to me, but only if I am very very lucky, and only potentially once a month, and even then it's likely I'll get a breed+colour combination that I'm not even looking for, and I don't even have the option of trading with other winners who might want the combo I won.

My long term goals include CB collection of all breeds, but that is secondary to my Snow/Floral-Crowned lineages, and I can't fulfill EITHER of those goals without the appropriate Prizes.

And without any realistic chance (0.1% of the player base winning a Prize once a month (that's 12 chances TOTAL every year to get ONE CB Prize prize of a combo I might not even want) is not a realistic chance, it's just an existent chance - you would never voluntarily take those odds for something you wanted or needed, especially if there was the option to take longer to get it, but gauranteed get it) - without any realistic chance, those lineages are nothing but a pipedream that I'll add to my spreadsheets but never Seriously worry about because how am I ever going to get them? I don't want to start with higher gens (that aren't even available yet, because we haven't had enough years of breeding those Holidays), because my playstyle and my goals and what I enjoy with this *game* that is, ultimately, for us to *enjoy* means that I want to start with 2Gs, CBs where possible (although since Xmas and Val dragons have imposed CB limits, I must make use of OTHER PLAYERS' dragons and breeding to fulfil my goals).

I cannot in any capacity do that with any realistic plans. I simply can't factor in any of these lineages despite wanting them, because if I maybe ever get access to them, it will be a fluke.

 

And secondly, quite aside from what I want, my desire for reasonably obtainable Prizes (and yes, over a year of being active enough to Max out your shard earnings EVERY WEEK is reasonable as well as *not easy*) is economical.

Quite aside from how unfair it is that such a small percentage of the userbase basics dictates what market prices are for everything - because like it or not, 2G Prizes and Prizekin do pretty much set the bar for all trade value items. Not only that, but when a core aspect of our game is that we can trade with each other to further our collections and get pairings or lineages we couldn't otherwise obtain or continue (see my Hol-checkers going anywhere higher than 3G without being inbred, and I personally don't deal in inbred dragons). Prizes are a breed that have been created and added to this game, they are on offer, they are official. You can want them to be as *special* as you want, but for a single, unreasonably attainable dragon breed to hold SO MUCH economic power over every single other breed - including HMs, including Spriter's Alts, and there is literally only one or two of all of those things, and they don't look to ever be obtainable again, and yet 2G Prizes continue to be of equal worth despite continued distribution - that is, quite simply, too much power for one breed to hold. Especially when that translates into a tiny tiny percentage of the userbase wielding that economic power as a result. We don't think that kind of economic condition is good in the real world (for obvious reasons), so why is it an acceptable state of affairs in our game economy?

 

As a side note that relates to both of these: I own 3 2G Prizes. A 2G Bronze Shimmerscale from Magma that I traded a 2G Gold Tinsel for - I got that Tinsel for a special coded CB Gaia, and even the  only because it's owner was especially interested in that code (it was a fandom name code); I have a 2G Silver Shimmerscale from Caligene that I got on the cheap from an incredibly nice Prize owner. And I own a 2G Silver Tinsel from Floral-Crowned, because my best friend IRL won a Tin and was lovely enough to make her Tin female and gift me an offspring.

The point of this is - no, they aren't 'easy' to obtain and while they shouldn't be *easy*, they shouldn't be as pipedream impossible as they are. I have absolutely filthy bad catching luck in the cave (mid-speed connection, bad reflexes) but I still have a serviceable collection of all other CB Rares, Silvers and Golds included. 2G golds have almost no real trade value in the current market  despite how valuable their parents are.

 

I'm going to stop here because I'm starting to ramble, but honestly, maintaining economic exclusively is patently a horrible practice and has never worked out well for anyone except that tiny percentage lucky enough to own the exclusivity, and as this is a game designed for the exclusive purpose of collection and enjoying collection and breeding pretty lineages for ourselves, holding desirable dragon breeds (especially ones as beautiful as the Prizes, that make stunning lineages with so many other breeds) just, at the end of the day, seems counterproductive.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

2 hours ago, Dubious said:

I am not sure about having the Prize Dragons buy able.

 

I was here here (like a few others) when the original Tinsels were introduced in 2011 and I fell in love with them and then the shimmers when they appeared and I fell doubly in love. That is more then seven years that I have longed for a CB Tinsel or CB Shimmer, that a a very long time to wait and hope in a collecting game. So I was really happy to see the raffles introduced monthly, at least I get a chance a month of winning the 'dream' dragon, even a very tiny chance.

 

To be honest I think that making the 'dream' dragon buy able would remove so much of the joy in finally 'winning' one. It would be nice to keep the Prize Dragons at least somewhat exclusive and separate from the rest or they will loose their uniqueness.

 

I do however think that it would be fairer if people could only win the raffle once. If people could only win the raffle once and then not enter again, it would reduce the number of people who can enter the raffle and therefore increase the chances for those that have never won before.

 

I completely agree with this!

[MissK.]

2 hours ago, Dubious said:

*snip*

 

I do however think that it would be fairer if people could only win the raffle once. If people could only win the raffle once and then not enter again, it would reduce the number of people who can enter the raffle and therefore increase the chances for those that have never won before.

 

Not being able to enter ever again seems a bit much...there are 6 different prize dragons after all, and even if we consider the 3 colours of each group the "same" (which they're not at all if you care about how lineages look) there are still two different breeds, Tinsels and Shimmers. How is it fair to say that if you win one you will never be allowed the other, even if you don't like the one you got? They're not tradeable so it's not like you could swap.

Still, there have been suggestions about winners not being able to enter raffles temporarily...and while that sounds reasonable in theory, the actual difference it would make is practically nonexistent. TJ did some math on that a while ago to prove that point, linked below. In my opinion introducing an alternate way of obtaining prizes is the most effective way of bridging the gap between the "lucky" who might even get several CBs, and those who still hope for just one.

 

[Kaini]

^ It would be frankly unfair to disallow previous winners from entering again, and doesn't increase your changes of winning by any appreciable amount. It just seems like it should, makes people feel better, when really statistically it does nothing.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

@MissK. The problem with my thread was that everyone swung the conversation to the marketplace and it derailed the original topic. Now I can resuggest it but the suggestion of the market place would have to stay out of the thread

[osmarks]

4 hours ago, Dubious said:

I am not sure about having the Prize Dragons buy able.

 

I was here here (like a few others) when the original Tinsels were introduced in 2011 and I fell in love with them and then the shimmers when they appeared and I fell doubly in love. That is more then seven years that I have longed for a CB Tinsel or CB Shimmer, that a a very long time to wait and hope in a collecting game. So I was really happy to see the raffles introduced monthly, at least I get a chance a month of winning the 'dream' dragon, even a very tiny chance.

 

To be honest I think that making the 'dream' dragon buy able would remove so much of the joy in finally 'winning' one. It would be nice to keep the Prize Dragons at least somewhat exclusive and separate from the rest or they will loose their uniqueness.

 

2 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

 

I completely agree with this!

Even if, to some, stuff feels better because you got it through some random chance thing with no investment, that still doesn't change the ridiculous economic situation created by the infinite money egg trees CB prizes are being distributed at random.

[Ruby Eyes]

Scenario 1:

- a handful of players get to feel special because they won a Prize

--- they can afford to trade for almost everything in the game

- the majority hopes to feel special one days, too, and gets disappointed every month and stays longing for one, with no way to influence their chances at getting one (besides raising 3 dragons to adulthood and NOT forgetting to enter - hooray)

 

Scenario 2:

- a handful of players (not necessarily the same handful as above) gets disappointed because their Prizes don't feel special to them anymore

- the majority of players theoretically has access to a Prize in the market, they just have to save up for a long time to afford it

--- some may give up on that target and hope for winning the raffle instead

--- others see a goal to work for

--- some will finally be able to buy a Prize and feel special because they worked for it (as much work as can be put into earning 100 shards a week, plus the patience to NOT buy anything else in the meantime)

- both winners and buyers will be able to happily trade Prize offspring with each other and with everyone else

--- they can still afford to trade for almost everything in the game, because, let's face it, how many people are actually constantly playing? compared to the overall playerbase, probably not more than there are raffle winners in the same period of time that it would take to save up for a Prize

 

Essentially, it all boils down to who gets to feel special, and why.

[olympe]

12 hours ago, Syiren said:

Thank you! This is how I feel about the Prizes. They are special and if I ever win one it'll make my day. That's the joy of the personal challenge I was referring to. That moment when you obtain it, it's such an amazing feeling that can't be replicated with simply buying it.

If it ever happens. Most likely, it won't. And yet, even if Prizes were available in the market, you could still win the raffle for your amazing feeling just as much as you can now. There'd be nothing stopping you from waiting for a raffle win if that's what it takes for you.

 

Regarding Pokémon, I almost killed the first shiny I encountered because I didn't know they had better stats, and didn't like the color. My daughter stopped me, though. (It was a Zubat, btw.)

 

Anyway, I think it's rather generous of you (general you) to tell us that it's more important for us to feel a certain way we can only feel after winning a stupid RNG thing than taking into account how we actually feel about the whole thing.

[HeatherMarie]

55 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Scenario 1:

- a handful of players get to feel special because they won a Prize

--- they can afford to trade for almost everything in the game

- the majority hopes to feel special one days, too, and gets disappointed every month and stays longing for one, with no way to influence their chances at getting one (besides raising 3 dragons to adulthood and NOT forgetting to enter - hooray)

 

Scenario 2:

- a handful of players (not necessarily the same handful as above) gets disappointed because their Prizes don't feel special to them anymore

- the majority of players theoretically has access to a Prize in the market, they just have to save up for a long time to afford it

--- some may give up on that target and hope for winning the raffle instead

--- others see a goal to work for

--- some will finally be able to buy a Prize and feel special because they worked for it (as much work as can be put into earning 100 shards a week, plus the patience to NOT buy anything else in the meantime)

- both winners and buyers will be able to happily trade Prize offspring with each other and with everyone else

--- they can still afford to trade for almost everything in the game, because, let's face it, how many people are actually constantly playing? compared to the overall playerbase, probably not more than there are raffle winners in the same period of time that it would take to save up for a Prize

 

Essentially, it all boils down to who gets to feel special, and why.

 

 

(bolding for emphasis) This is exactly what it boils down to, especially that last sentence.

 

I see people arguing that buying a Prize wouldn't feel as great as winning one, it wouldn't feel 'special' if they just bought one, etc..... Okay, but they don't *have* to buy one. Anyone who thinks that buying one somehow isn't as fun or exciting or special as winning one, just don't buy one. Take your chances on the raffle and get that awesome feeling if you ever win. But many of us *would* feel just as happy and satisfied with being able to *work* towards a goal instead of relying on random luck in the raffles. Personally, I think it's much *more* special and satisfying to *earn* something shiny, by playing consistently for a long time and saving up those shards, then to just get randomly chosen for absolutely no reason except that I clicked a button. I would get much more excitement out of working towards a goal like that then I'd ever get by waiting for years to hope that the RNG gods pick me.

 

As far as original CB Prize owners feeling like their original Prizes wouldn't be as special if they were available in the Market.... I honestly just don't understand that. First of all, original Prize owners had a *long* time to feel special, to feel superior over everyone else who didn't win those very very limited holiday raffles, to basically be the richest people in the entire game and be able to trade for anything and everything because they were the only ones able to offer 2nd-gens Prizes. The only thing I'm really seeing here is that some of those people don't want that superiority to end. But.... Hasn't it already? Raffles are back. Every single month. Every single month there are 60 new people who get CB Prizes. CB Prizes are not some badge of honor for being here years ago and winning one of the very few holiday raffles the game ever had. CB Prizes are not this limited-time nostalgic thing that you can look back fondly on and feel so special that you were one of the only people who will ever have one. That's just no longer the reality of the game, now that they are given out every single month. I honestly don't understand how 60 CB Prizes given out every single month *doesn't* make original winners feel less special, and yet being able to buy 1 in the Market every year or two does?

[Syiren]

3 hours ago, olympe said:

If it ever happens. Most likely, it won't. And yet, even if Prizes were available in the market, you could still win the raffle for your amazing feeling just as much as you can now. There'd be nothing stopping you from waiting for a raffle win if that's what it takes for you.

 

Regarding Pokémon, I almost killed the first shiny I encountered because I didn't know they had better stats, and didn't like the color. My daughter stopped me, though. (It was a Zubat, btw.)

 

Anyway, I think it's rather generous of you (general you) to tell us that it's more important for us to feel a certain way we can only feel after winning a stupid RNG thing than taking into account how we actually feel about the whole thing.

Sigh~ I really hate repeating myself. see my first post.

 

I was using pokemon as an example. I'm not too fond of Shiny Zubat, but shiny crobat isn't bad. Shiny Nidoqueen on the other hand? *shudders* just why? - that's all matter of opinion tho.

 

I'm not getting into an argument with you about this. it seems you're trying to put words into my mouth and make it seem like I think everyone should be grateful and just deal with it. (At least that's how it made me feel, please don't take any offense if that isn't the case) That's not what I said at all. I frankly don't give a flying pig's batookie if the prizes stay raffles or become open market. I'm not telling you how you should feel. I was expressing how I feel about it. it's my two cents, my opinion on the matter and honestly, it feels like you're trying to call me out simply because I feel differently about something. I'm sorry if you didn't understand the point I was trying to make and if you felt like I was trying to act all high and mighty, when I'm not. I have no ill-will towards you, I'm just trying to post my opinion and be done with it. I appreciate that you value my opinion or post enough to comment to it, whether you agree or not, but I also know that my post is just a drop of water in a much bigger pond.

 

I will admit that while neutral I am leaning more towards keeping it as it is, however I would rather we agree to disagree, shake hands and walk away. I respect the people on this community too much to want to start any kind of rift with anyone.

[tjekan]

8 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

I would totally buy a Shimmer from the Market if I could - unless CB hybrids/breed-onlies were available, in which case I'd spend all my shards on those

 

That would solve the specialness problem basically right away. There are, I think, 22 common (non-Holiday, non-spriter alt) dragons that cannot currently be obtained in CB form. If CBs of those breeds became available in the marketplace and only in the marketplace, that would 1) give veteran users a reason to care about shards and the marketplace, and 2) give everyone a chance to feel special-- because once the saving-up period was up, everyone would get to choose a dragon that at most 1/40 of the userbase could have (because everyone could only choose one of about 40 options if you count gender.)

 

This could stimulate trade (since everyone who does checker lineages would then want 2nd-gens from all the options), increase interest in some overlooked breeds like soulpeaces, and it would not really affect anything else in the cave because the only people who care about the difference between a 2nd-gen green spinel and a CB green spinel are lineage builders and scroll completists anyway.

 

If CB prizes in the marketplace are a no, could we at least have CB hybrids/breedable alts? Or basically anything interesting besides a CB gold? Those of us who have CB golds already just don't have anything to do with our shards.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

11 minutes ago, tjekan said:

22 common (non-Holiday, non-spriter alt) dragons that cannot currently be obtained in CB form.

 

If CB prizes in the marketplace are a no, could we at least have CB hybrids/breedable alts? Or basically anything interesting besides a CB gold? Those of us who have CB golds already just don't have anything to do with our shards.

 

What 22 breeds are you referring to? Hybrids, Prizes, and alts?

 

CB hybrids and breedable alts don't make any sense - I'm definitely not in support of that. If you don't have anything you want to spend your shards on... Don't spend them? Or maybe advocate for some of the suggestions of potions or other purchasable items, but CB hybrids/breedable alts would mess with a fundamental part of the site - that we breed and produce them ourselves.

 

Anyway, regarding the "specialness" argument, I'll refer back to what TJ himself said. The market in itself is a supplement to counteract the randomness of the cave. So we can purchase Chickens, Dinos, Golds - breeds a lot of people struggle to catch. We can't buy Prizes atm because we can't find them, we can't catch them (same goes for hybrids and breedable alts). Atm it's an equal opportunity for all users to find themselves gifted a Prize egg. If more people want a higher chance of getting a Prize, I'm definitely in favour of raising the amount of winners per month from 60 to, say, 100? More? Whatever people deem enough. I'm also in favour of making it so the same winner can't get more than one, sure. I just don't think we should be able to buy them. They weren't meant to be caught in the cave, so they don't belong in a place meant for things people struggle to catch.

[tjekan]

19 minutes ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

If you don't have anything you want to spend your shards on... Don't spend them?

 

Well yes, sure, I could just not use the market at all. That would be boring, though. I would rather see something interesting available for purchase in the market that I would WANT to spend shards on.

 

I mean, by the "just go away and don't use it if it's not good for you the way it is" theory then we never really NEEDED a market at all, because all of us could just have continued not going there as we'd done for years. But the market was an interesting addition, and it has given players who have trouble catching golds something to work towards, so that's good. I think it would be even better if it provided something interesting to players with no need to save up for a gold as well.

 

Games get stale if everything in them stays exactly the same. In DC, some breeds that had previously been unable to breed with each other now are not. That was an interesting change and turned out for the better. Allowing CB red stripes or CB soulpeaces to be acquired but only in a different and rarer way (from the market instead of in the cave) would also be an interesting change, and one from which I can imagine multiple benefits. "Because that's not the way it's always been before" isn't a good enough reason for me to dismiss ideas.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

14 minutes ago, tjekan said:

Well yes, sure, I could just not use the market at all. That would be boring, though. I would rather see something interesting available for purchase in the market that I would WANT to spend shards on.

 

I mean, by the "just go away and don't use it if it's not good for you the way it is" theory then we never really NEEDED a market at all, because all of us could just have continued not going there as we'd done for years. But the market was an interesting addition, and it has given players who have trouble catching golds something to work towards, so that's good. I think it would be even better if it provided something interesting to players with no need to save up for a gold as well.

 

Games get stale if everything in them stays exactly the same. In DC, some breeds that had previously been unable to breed with each other now are not. That was an interesting change and turned out for the better. Allowing CB red stripes or CB soulpeaces to be acquired but only in a different and rarer way (from the market instead of in the cave) would also be an interesting change, and one from which I can imagine multiple benefits. "Because that's not the way it's always been before" isn't a good enough reason for me to dismiss ideas.

 

The end-game of the market isn't just to catch Golds. That isn't the sole point of it. It can be used for much more, like for people who are collecting a certain breed, or if someone is just having trouble finding a particular breed. Everybody has a different use for it, so just because a few players already have a Gold doesn't mean it needs to be modified just to cater to them.

 

And I was never dismissing ideas on the basis of "because that's not the way it's always been before". I'm saying it doesn't make sense to add dragons that users need to breed for. Should we have Holidays drop all-year-round, because that's never been done before and would spice things up? Should we be able to breed Pygmies with regular-sized dragons? Probably not. Because that wouldn't make sense, just as having a dragon purely obtainable through breeding be available as cave-bred.

 

Idk, personally I see no benefit to it. But I digress. My point for Prizes not being available in the market is that because they aren't dropped in the cave, why would they be in the market, just as TJ said. I'm not stuck in my ways, and certainly not using "because it's always been this way it shouldn't change" as an excuse - I welcome changes to the site in many ways, but only if they make sense, and imo adding an uncatchable breed to the market - a place for catchable things - doesn't really make sense.

[osmarks]

I think that the benefits of market prizes outweigh the slight inconsistency produced.

[Fuzzbucket]

9 minutes ago, osmarks said:

I think that the benefits of market prizes outweigh the slight inconsistency produced.

 

I think that about sums it up.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

39 minutes ago, osmarks said:

I think that the benefits of market prizes outweigh the slight inconsistency produced.

 

30 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I think that about sums it up.

 

Can you elaborate on how?