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Cireth

ANSWERED:Can We Please Have Prizes Available in the Market

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7 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I would like them in the market - but for more like 7,500 (same price for all, I think. They are equally distributed in the raffle, IIRC.)

 

 

 

60 total a month 10 gold 20 silver 30 bronze (half of each type).   

 

I would prefer to see them in the market.  even for a ridiculously high price.  I'm even cool with the random idea (though if it's going to take a year or more to save up, I'd prefer to pick, but I'd accept that limit)

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Definitely I would like to see the prize dragons in market.

 

At max 100 earned per week, a cost of 5200 would be a year's worth of activity. It took me longer than that once I started weekly summoning attempts to get my first GON, and a Gallus gallus domesticus (chicken) currently costs 5300. Perhaps something nearer the equivalent of 2-3 years of activity would be appropriate for a prize dragon?

 

As someone who has been collecting DC dragons for over 10 years now, I would adore some way to have that loyalty (addiction?) rewarded. The points are a clear measure of activity and thus an excellent forum for providing a reward for the dedicated collector.

Edited by Awdz Bodkins

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I don't really see pressing a button once a month and waiting for the windfall as earning anything, especially when you can't even pick what your "reward" is. A bronze owner will be hard-pressed to get the 2g gold prizes they want to build their own lineage. I'd imagine saving up funds that you could have used on other rares you're missing could actually be called earning or working towards a Prize. Is two to three years of non-stop activity on DC not something to be rewarded?

 

I do not personally see why RNG on purchase should be a thing, given that the raffle is RNG because it gives you something literally priceless for nothing. At least split it between tinsel and shimmer if this is insisted on.

 

Sure, going from 1/10000 to 1/1000 is a big change in odds, but it doesn't change the fact that the other 99% aren't getting anything anyway even if raffles were made more frequent recently.

 

To be honest I don't expect TJ to give any input, probably for the next year at minimum. But perhaps we'll get market prizes sometime in the next 5 years and some lucky few will have enough shards saved up to immediately purchase a pair the day of, if they haven't spent it all on other metallics.

 

I'm not sure if any of this arguing is actually going to convince anyone on either side; none of these debates ever seem to actually lead anywhere, just a whole lot of airing of opinions.

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Making prizes available in Market will make them less special. That's just a fact. Even now, as CB Golds are in the market, at a price where nobody has been able to buy one yet because of the cap, they have become less special. People play with the knowledge that in half a year they can get a gold, and many no longer try to procure one by other means. It used to be many players had barely even seen one in cave in years of playing, and winning one in a (player-run) raffle was the best thing that could happen to you. So yes, CB Prizes will be less special. And eventually, when Market price is attained, so will 2G Prizes.

 

Anyway, you're missing the point of collecting. Collecting isn't about having /all the things/ (unless you're collecting something very new and very finite, which is never what collectors do), it's about GETTING the things. Now blablabla real life isn't applicable you will say. Fine. How about Pokemon, then, a game that is p much based on collecting (see motto). Do you refuse to consider the game finished until you have collected every single shiny you could find in the game? Of course not, or we'd all be playing into our old age. People choosing to play only with CBs (which is not in any way "better" in an in-built way in the game) is a choice, but you can still get every breed. How about those who collect prizekin.... Should kin from every single prize ever born be available in the market? After all that's the only way their goal can be "complete"....... Right? No, collecting is about the act of accumulating things, some will by nature be easier to get than others, but nothing is actually unavailable.

 

Finally, saying "arguably" and then not giving any argument in favour of the following clause is not how "arguably" works. You have to actually argue your point. I can't just say "demonstrably" followed by my opinion and feel like that's enough to prove it.

Edited by Aalbiel

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8 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

re:life isn’t fair yadda yadda, no it’s not, but that’s why I play games. If I wanted to be sad and embrace inequality, I’d read the news. There is a huge difference between making things dirt cheap / meaningless to get and making things absurdly hard to get / “real life isn’t fair durrhurr” level rare. There is a pleasant, game friendly balance that can be made, I assure you.

 

I completely agree with this. This is a game after all, an amazing one for those of us who love it, but a game after all. So its not goign out of our way to ask for the Prizes to be realisticaly obtainable. I mean, we know the raffles doesn't exclude previous winners, and while I don't agree with that part, I can understand it is supposed to be for "fairness' sake" but that means there are multiple winner and while not going against them, that is just plain unfair for the rest of members.

 

5 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

For realistic comparison: There is currently 3,105 scrolls with growing dragons in AoND. If we shoot very very *very* low and pretend that those are the only scrolls that are actually active, it will currently take roughly 4.3 *years* for every single one of those scrolls to obtain a CB Prize, and that's not factoring in the repeat-wins that we know happen. And I'm pretty dang sure there *are* more active scrolls then that.... I personally don't think that's the kind of game DC is, or should be, or the majority of players want it to be. 

 

True to this as well, its so annoying to learn that. I mean, I don't hate the raffle, I know its suppose to give everyone an "equal chance" of winning, which is highly unlikely, not because sompne is tampering with it but because most random generators give priority to either the first of last entries giving them the highest chances to come out winners, so in reality, its not truely random. But that aside, like @Cireth mentioned, more active members, specially those who have spent years in here should have some sort of incentive to get a "CB" Prize for themselves.

 

Just picture this random scenario (doubt it has happened, if it happened then its a coincidence), you join DC the first of X month, you like it, and start collecting eggs yadda yadda. Suddenly you realize there is a raffle and you meet the requirements, amazing right? Well you get your ticket and all cool. But as the days pass you realize you don't like DC as much as you thought at first and probably won't continue playing it for much longer. Then last day of the month comes and you realize you won a Prize on your first month on the site, AMAZING! You feel blessed and are so excited. But it turns out this doesn't chage the fact you don't want to continue in the site, so you decide you will give the Prize to somebody else who can take care of it and appreciate it the way you can't, but as soon as you try to give it waya you realize the egg is lovked and can't be traded away, so its stuck on your scroll, which you'll never use again.

 

Now, you think that is fair for every other DC member who comes in and attends to their dragons basically every day? And have been on the site for years, some maybe even over a decade and as of yet have not gotten a Prize due to reasons. And then they realize one of the raffle winners got a Prize just to let it die, do you think that is ok with everyone? It would not, specially to those who have been around for years in the cave.

 

Now about how to get them in a more realistically way, I can think of a few things. First of all, and probably the least likely to be supported, make the raffle harder to access. having 3 grown dragons is way waaaaay too easy. I mean, someone mentioned you can get online once a month and still be able to fulfill that requirement, so what's the point? Make it harder, I don't mean something like growing 100 dragons, because of course not. But maybe give something that can only be achieved in say 15 days of active playing. That way you make sure only active player who arguably deserve winning can enter the raffle.

 

9 hours ago, VixenDra said:

Just give the Prizes sth like a year or two worth of Shard collecting, keep the raffle - since winning a Prize still woudl put the winners in a huge advantage, liek save a year or two of Shards... (maybe lower the amount of winners if necessary), and Prizes would still be rare as hell, but at least REALISTICALLY obtainable (not just 'sure, you got the hope, but you may never get even one in a lifetime' they are now - it is already a sure thing that even if everybody won just once for 50 years, there would still be plenty of people with no Prize... this is already unfair. And we also don't want to exclude past winners from the poll, especially now there are quite a few who won more than once already... Al this 'raffles are fair' is just a meaningless slogan that doesn't take many importnat factors into account...)

 

The other one I can think is of course, putting them on the market. Now just like it has been mentioned, putting them in the market not only rewards active player and give them a goal to aim for, but also serves as an incentive for newer players. Now the prize, as stated above (not the quoted post, but a couple posts above this one), the Chickens being 5200 shards are currently the most expensive breed and they are worth one year of active playing without loosing a single week. So it HAS TO be more expensive than that. I would say 2 years worth of shards is mroe than fair, that's 10,400 shards, though I would prefer 1.5 years (7800 shards), and during the time you need to get those shards you will still have a "chance" to win one on the raffle, as well as changing your mind according to your current needs and maybe buy other breed. So by making them 1.5-2 years worth of playing, you make sure only active players get acces to buy them while not tampering with others' chance to win them via the raffle.

 

And of course, if you want to keep the "random" factor of getting them, you can make the Prize you buy on the market to be a Random Prize, that way while still being realistically obtainable, it's still random enough for those who are against the "easy way" to get them to be more inclined accept them being on the market.

Edited by Kaiserf11

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2 hours ago, Syiren said:

As someone who still hasn't caught her own CB Gold or Silver in the cave yet, I treat it as a personal challenge. A stride or journey in order to reach that holy grail. While yes, I would like to have them open in the market, I'm actually in a way, glad they're not. It's one of the last great challenges in this wonderful cave. To obtain a CB Prize gives you legendary status, not as someone who holds power over others, but as one of the few who won a Prize and can create your own prize lineages. I don't have a CB Prize, and it stands as one of the two last great challenges left for me to achieve on this wonderful site that I've been apart of for nearly 6 years. I have one of each dragon, including an ND which was a total fluke. I don't mind if it becomes available on the market, but I'm leaning 70% more towards I hope they do not.

 

Some things in life are never given to us, we have to earn them, even through luck.

 

I completely agree!!

 

For a lot of people, the market isn’t the greatest way of obtaining things. Some people, due to work and school and other things, simply can’t be as active as others. They may be just as dedicated to the site, love it just as much as anyone else, but just not have the time for it as much - unable to stack up as much market currency as others. With the raffle - as much as people may not think there is - there is a completely fair chance. People who can’t be online as much will find it easier to grow three adult dragons rather than stack and stack that market currency, and do stand an equal chance of getting a Prize from the raffle. Whereas people talk about “a year’s worth of market”, that could be two year’s worth or more to somebody who doesn’t have as much time for the site.

 

Just as Syiren said, I actually enjoy the challenge element to Prizes, and I get excited every month knowing I could get one every month. In the minority, but yeah, I don’t want Prizes in the market for the reason that they’d immediately become less special.

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9 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Imo it depends on your definition of 'fair'. Is the raffle 'fair' in the everyone who enters has the same chance? Sure. Is it 'fair' that, with the current raffle alone, it will take 50+ *years* for every active player to have *one* CB Prize? I personally don't think that is 'fair' at all. 

 

I lobbied hard in the past for CB Prizes being available in some other way then just a completely random raffle with a very very tiny winning pool. The most expensive Market breed right now is the Chicken, at 5,300 shards. I figure Prizes should definitely be more then that, perhaps much more, to keep their uniqueness and specialness. But no matter what the price would be, it would still be a million times better to work towards a guaranteed outcome then to enter a random raffle month after month for *years* and never win. 

 

While some people may not like the 'this is a collectables game so we should be able to collect everything' argument, it's still a *valid* argument. Many people specifically play DC and *not* other games because of the *lack* of exclusive/elite dragons that only a tiny itty bitty minority can ever obtain. Many people play DC with specific goals in mind, commonly to get a pair of CBs (or a few pairs) of each breed.... Leaving out the *vast* majority of the playerbase from *ever* getting a specific CB breed just really doesn't jive with what DC is in every other way. The return of CB holidays seems to be a clue that exclusive, unobtainable dragons are not what most people want and not what this site should be about.

 

This, very much.

 

9 hours ago, Starscream said:

I say no unless they were priced 10 - 15k or more and it was random choice. Raffle is how it should be distributed (or not at all)

 

 

I would be FINE with 10k. More than twice a Gold seems about right.

 

9 hours ago, olympe said:

9 hours ago, Starscream said:

I say no unless they were priced 10 - 15k or more and it was random choice. Raffle is how it should be distributed (or not at all)

 

Why?

Why indeed ? (I could even live with 15k, but why ONLY raffles and why random.)

 

49 minutes ago, Aalbiel said:

Making prizes available in Market will make them less special. That's just a fact. Even now, as CB Golds are in the market, at a price where nobody has been able to buy one yet because of the cap, they have become less special. People play with the knowledge that in half a year they can get a gold, and many no longer try to procure one by other means. It used to be many players had barely even seen one in cave in years of playing, and winning one in a (player-run) raffle was the best thing that could happen to you. So yes, CB Prizes will be less special. And eventually, when Market price is attained, so will 2G Prizes.

 

Anyway, you're missing the point of collecting. Collecting isn't about having /all the things/ (unless you're collecting something very new and very finite, which is never what collectors do), it's about GETTING the things. Now blablabla real life isn't applicable you will say. Fine. How about Pokemon, then, a game that is p much based on collecting (see motto). Do you refuse to consider the game finished until you have collected every single shiny you could find in the game? Of course not, or we'd all be playing into our old age. People choosing to play only with CBs (which is not in any way "better" in an in-built way in the game) is a choice, but you can still get every breed. How about those who collect prizekin.... Should kin from every single prize ever born be available in the market? After all that's the only way their goal can be "complete"....... Right? No, collecting is about the act of accumulating things, some will by nature be easier to get than others, but nothing is actually unavailable.

 

Finally, saying "arguably" and then not giving any argument in favour of the following clause is not how "arguably" works. You have to actually argue your point. I can't just say "demonstrably" followed by my opinion and feel like that's enough to prove it.

 

To the bolded - no it wouldn't. Golds aren't less special than they used to be, now that we can breed rare x rare and get PBs. And an egg priced at 2 years or so of collecting shards is still pretty special. It also represents effort.

 

Arguments from another game really are not relevant here as has been said many times before (not least to me when I cite Chicken Smoothie as a nasty thing :lol: ) I don't play other games because of all the things I don't like about them. And most of us see completion as every CB egg - no-one can ever reckon to get every possible pair of everything represented on their scroll. After all - there are plenty of people who will not breed their prizes at all ever, so... Bred eggs are a completely different thing which never could be in the market, only in the hub.

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@Kaini Please stop with the arguments saying things like "because it used to be worse, who cares that it's bad now". Yes, it was worse when they were stupidly exclusive, but the RNG system is also bad in the eyes of many.

 

Regarding the price thing: I think that about twice a gold would be sensible.

 

Anyway. Yes, DC is heavily based on RNG, but there's at least some skill in clicking very fast and recognizing the descriptions. The raffle has none of that, apart from the very easy 3 adult dragons thing. And yes, this will make prizes less special, to which I say: who cares? They're not a representation of your skill. They're a representation of the fact that one month you had three adult dragons and got randomly picked. And yet due to the economics of DC, their rarity makes them stupidly valuable, so people get a very overpowered (as in: you can trade a quarter of the offspring for ~2 CB Golds and the rest for a CB Copper or so) dragon for nothing.

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5 hours ago, Syiren said:

Some things in life are never given to us, we have to earn them, even through luck.

Getting something through dumb luck is very much the opposite of earning it.

 

3 hours ago, Aalbiel said:

Making prizes available in Market will make them less special. That's just a fact. Even now, as CB Golds are in the market, at a price where nobody has been able to buy one yet because of the cap, they have become less special. People play with the knowledge that in half a year they can get a gold, and many no longer try to procure one by other means. It used to be many players had barely even seen one in cave in years of playing, and winning one in a (player-run) raffle was the best thing that could happen to you. So yes, CB Prizes will be less special. And eventually, when Market price is attained, so will 2G Prizes.

I don't think it's a bad thing. Nobody will have to break the rules in order to get a single CB gold, much less get addicted to them and breaking the rules even more, making CB golds even harder to get for everyone else. And nobody with less than stellar luck hunting will have to hope for the same kind of stellar luck in a player-run raffle. Personally, I'm still missing one CB gold for my minimum scroll goals (2 CB adults of each available gender; 2nd gens for stuff I cannot get CB; does not include SA lines), and I won't consider the 4th (which will most likely have to be bought) any less than the two I got gifted or the one I traded for. I doubt it would be any different for CB prizes, save for the fact I don't have any of those.

 

Anyway, you're missing the point of collecting. Collecting isn't about having /all the things/ (unless you're collecting something very new and very finite, which is never what collectors do), it's about GETTING the things. Now blablabla real life isn't applicable you will say. Fine. How about Pokemon, then, a game that is p much based on collecting (see motto). Do you refuse to consider the game finished until you have collected every single shiny you could find in the game? Of course not, or we'd all be playing into our old age. People choosing to play only with CBs (which is not in any way "better" in an in-built way in the game) is a choice, but you can still get every breed. How about those who collect prizekin.... Should kin from every single prize ever born be available in the market? After all that's the only way their goal can be "complete"....... Right? No, collecting is about the act of accumulating things, some will by nature be easier to get than others, but nothing is actually unavailable.



Regading Pokémon: I don't care about collecting shinies. I'm always surprised if I manage to find one, but I don't actively collect them because I really couldn't care less. The same goes for SA lines here in the cave or getting all available CB prize lines on my scroll. I'd consider Pokémon finished once I have one of every Pokémon, ideally of each gender (if applicable) or at least one female for breeding purposes. But even this isn't always possible because of the many events that mean you need to be somewhere special at a certain date in order to unlock bonus missions leading to legendary Pokémon. (And some of these events are only available way before the release of a European version, and only in Japan.) So, sad as it is, I have to consider the game "complete" once I've gone through the whole story and any bonus missions available, or I'd go mad.

 

While it may be true that CBs are not "better in an in-built way in the game", they are better in a different, yet very important part of DC. When it comes to breeding your own lines, you need CBs. There's no arguing that. Otherwise, you'll always depend on other people. It's true that it can lead to great collaborations, especially when the supply of CBs and/or that particular line is abundant - like Yulebuck x White checkers, or Radiant Angel x Gold checkers (to name two examples). But it doesn't work in case of Prizes because most 2nd gen Prizes get swapped for other 2nd gen Prizes or 2nd gen SA offspring, excluding 99% of all players, which is a big problem in my opinion. Only a few get traded for something else, like CB golds - preferably more than one - or NDs, if you're really lucky. (Of course, having an ND on hand when requested is another matter entirely...) So, in essence, trying desperately to get into 2nd gen Prizes (for those without CBs) can and will lead to rule-breaking again.

Spoiler

I remember one player who always had several CB golds growing on their scroll (for months - or was it years - on end), posting them across all available trading threads in order to trade them for 2nd gen prizes, bumping their trades at least once every day. In the end, their scroll got burned, and we don't have to speculate why.

 

[quote=Kaiserf11Now about how to get them in a more realistically way, I can think of a few things. First of all, and probably the least likely to be supported, make the raffle harder to access. having 3 grown dragons is way waaaaay too easy. I mean, someone mentioned you can get online once a month and still be able to fulfill that requirement, so what's the point? Make it harder, I don't mean something like growing 100 dragons, because of course not. But maybe give something that can only be achieved in say 15 days of active playing. That way you make sure only active player who arguably deserve winning can enter the raffle.[/quote] Even for your example of someone playing for only one month and winning at once, this wouldn't work. Because for that one month, they probably did play excessively (because new games are exciting). Making the requirements harder doesn't really change anything for the better because, as long as it isn't ridiculously hard, it won't exclude anyone. And even some of the more "casual" players only play this way because they have very strict scroll goals (like they want only 5 CBs of each breed, male and female adult, male and female S2 and an S1) and nothing more at all. If a CB Prize egg gets neglected, outrightly killed or bitten, if a CB prize hatchling gets frozen or a CB prized gets never bred in its life, it's at the owner's discretion. As much as these actions hurt me on a personal level, it's not within my rights to demand they don't happen.

 

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CB Golds ARE less special. It's indisputable. Their perceived value HAS gone down. You used to be able to value 1 CB gold at about 1 2G Prize (or sliiiiightly less maybe), but now it's nowhere near worth a 2G Prize.

 

Also, let's change some stuff to cater to people who change the rules, sure! How about we expect people not to break the rules, because they agreed to them when signing on? No?

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1 minute ago, Aalbiel said:

CB Golds ARE less special. It's indisputable. Their perceived value HAS gone down. You used to be able to value 1 CB gold at about 1 2G Prize (or sliiiiightly less maybe), but now it's nowhere near worth a 2G Prize.

 

Also, let's change some stuff to cater to people who change the rules, sure! How about we expect people not to break the rules, because they agreed to them when signing on? No?

As I said before: who says CB prizes should be particularly special? They're not a representation of skill. They are a representation of the fact that you were slightly active during a month and were randomly picked. With a market option, you'd at least be able to get one without just being lucky.

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The invention of Prizes said they should be special. Saying they shouldn't be special at all is going back on the whole concept of Prize dragons, not just their distribution.

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2 minutes ago, Aalbiel said:

The invention of Prizes said they should be special. Saying they shouldn't be special at all is going back on the whole concept of Prize dragons, not just their distribution.

Their specialness/current distribution method is kind of messing up game balance.

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Kind of funny how nobody who quoted my posts had anything to say about how for literally anyone who's collecting on anything but a "CB" basis, there is no availability of rare dragons (e.g. rare lineages) in Market, and you all seem to be okay with this because it's not your personal style of play :rolleyes:

 

(Okay Fuzz, you did say something to that effect, but I don't consider "this is impossible to get so it shouldn't even be considered" to be a particularly good argument when you're mainly arguing "boohoo i already have a chance to get this [(as opposed to my other examples)] but i want a BETTER chance because this suits my style of play personally, who cares how other people play")

Edited by Aalbiel

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5 hours ago, Kaiserf11 said:

 

I completely agree with this. This is a game after all, an amazing one for those of us who love it, but a game after all. So its not goign out of our way to ask for the Prizes to be realisticaly obtainable. I mean, we know the raffles doesn't exclude previous winners, and while I don't agree with that part, I can understand it is supposed to be for "fairness' sake" but that means there are multiple winner and while not going against them, that is just plain unfair for the rest of members.

 

 

True to this as well, its so annoying to learn that. I mean, I don't hate the raffle, I know its suppose to give everyone an "equal chance" of winning, which is highly unlikely, not because sompne is tampering with it but because most random generators give priority to either the first of last entries giving them the highest chances to come out winners, so in reality, its not truely random. But that aside, like @Cireth mentioned, more active members, specially those who have spent years in here should have some sort of incentive to get a "CB" Prize for themselves.

 

Just picture this random scenario (doubt it has happened, if it happened then its a coincidence), you join DC the first of X month, you like it, and start collecting eggs yadda yadda. Suddenly you realize there is a raffle and you meet the requirements, amazing right? Well you get your ticket and all cool. But as the days pass you realize you don't like DC as much as you thought at first and probably won't continue playing it for much longer. Then last day of the month comes and you realize you won a Prize on your first month on the site, AMAZING! You feel blessed and are so excited. But it turns out this doesn't chage the fact you don't want to continue in the site, so you decide you will give the Prize to somebody else who can take care of it and appreciate it the way you can't, but as soon as you try to give it waya you realize the egg is lovked and can't be traded away, so its stuck on your scroll, which you'll never use again.

 

Now, you think that is fair for every other DC member who comes in and attends to their dragons basically every day? And have been on the site for years, some maybe even over a decade and as of yet have not gotten a Prize due to reasons. And then they realize one of the raffle winners got a Prize just to let it die, do you think that is ok with everyone? It would not, specially to those who have been around for years in the cave.

 

Now about how to get them in a more realistically way, I can think of a few things. First of all, and probably the least likely to be supported, make the raffle harder to access. having 3 grown dragons is way waaaaay too easy. I mean, someone mentioned you can get online once a month and still be able to fulfill that requirement, so what's the point? Make it harder, I don't mean something like growing 100 dragons, because of course not. But maybe give something that can only be achieved in say 15 days of active playing. That way you make sure only active player who arguably deserve winning can enter the raffle.

 

 

The other one I can think is of course, putting them on the market. Now just like it has been mentioned, putting them in the market not only rewards active player and give them a goal to aim for, but also serves as an incentive for newer players. Now the prize, as stated above (not the quoted post, but a couple posts above this one), the Chickens being 5200 shards are currently the most expensive breed and they are worth one year of active playing without loosing a single week. So it HAS TO be more expensive than that. I would say 2 years worth of shards is mroe than fair, that's 10,400 shards, though I would prefer 1.5 years (7800 shards), and during the time you need to get those shards you will still have a "chance" to win one on the raffle, as well as changing your mind according to your current needs and maybe buy other breed. So by making them 1.5-2 years worth of playing, you make sure only active players get acces to buy them while not tampering with others' chance to win them via the raffle.

 

And of course, if you want to keep the "random" factor of getting them, you can make the Prize you buy on the market to be a Random Prize, that way while still being realistically obtainable, it's still random enough for those who are against the "easy way" to get them to be more inclined accept them being on the market.

ALL this is true.

Though I am fine with the entry requirements.,

 

6 minutes ago, Aalbiel said:

CB Golds ARE less special. It's indisputable. Their perceived value HAS gone down. You used to be able to value 1 CB gold at about 1 2G Prize (or sliiiiightly less maybe), but now it's nowhere near worth a 2G Prize.

 

Also, let's change some stuff to cater to people who change the rules, sure! How about we expect people not to break the rules, because they agreed to them when signing on? No?

 

When I signed on raffles didn't exist at all. I didn't sign up to be excluded from something for ever (basically). The rules never mentioned dragons that would be exclusive to a vanishingly small percentage of players. And actually I DON'T see CB golds as less special than prizes - except in the sense that I will never get a prioxe, the way things are set up. No matter how hard I play (and lord knows I am a dedicated player.)

 

3 minutes ago, Aalbiel said:

The invention of Prizes said they should be special. Saying they shouldn't be special at all is going back on the whole concept of Prize dragons, not just their distribution.

 

They will still be special. Though I was here when they first showed up and it did NOT say they should be special. It just said there would be prizes not available in cave. Fine - I can live with them not being IN CAVE - but the hub didn't exist then either. Should that go away because when you signed up it didn't exist ?

 

Things do change.

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You might not see them personally as less special, but they are. Simply put, it used to be, you see an offer for a 2G Prize (I'm talking forums of course), you offer a CB Gold, you've got a very good chance of getting that trade. Now, you offer a CB Gold, the only person who's going to accept that is someone who doesn't know the value of their 2G Prize.

 

Perhaps that latter person would be.... a new player who has a CB Prize? What???? Those exist??? Why yes as it happens, 60 people per month get a Prize! What a vanishingly small number. Never play the lottery.

 

As for how "special" CB Prizes are, personally I think TJ is a little too classy to be like "look at this dragon it so speshul". Maybe I'm wrong though, I don't know him well of course. However I'm pretty sure calling something a "Prize" and having it be difficult to obtain (esp. with how hard they were to get in the beginning) definitely means special.

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7 minutes ago, Aalbiel said:

Kind of funny how nobody who quoted my posts had anything to say about how for literally anyone who's collecting on anything but a "CB" basis, there is no availability of rare dragons (e.g. rare lineages) in Market, and you all seem to be okay with this because it's not your personal style of play :rolleyes:

 

(Okay Fuzz, you did say something to that effect, but I don't consider "this is impossible to get so it shouldn't even be considered" to be a particularly good argument when you're mainly arguing "boohoo i already have a chance to get this [(as opposed to my other examples)] but i want a BETTER chance because this suits my style of play personally, who cares how other people play")

 

Boo hoo is not something I say or even feel. I think I speak for the vast majority of players who post here, who would like a MUCH better way to get prize dragons, and who would like to be able to earn them rather than rely on a capricious RNG which very often favours people who barely play at all, and which in general leads to people with prizes trading 2 gens among themselves (yes I've been lucky; I have been gifted two and paid a shedload for a third, but still.). Sure, earning them should be hard - very hard - but it should be possible.

 

And lineages can never be in the market, only in trades. Someone has to BREED those, and TJ does not - nor should he have - the right to sell off eggs bred by players. On the other hand so very many players here will happily breed special stuff. Even 2 gen SAs. I've almost always been given those free when I've asked.

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@Aalbiel Yes, there are 60 people a month, but an awful lot of users. I don't know of any data about how many people enter it monthly, but I expect the number to be at least 20000.

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6 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

And lineages can never be in the market, only in trades. Someone has to BREED those, and TJ does not - nor should he have - the right to sell off eggs bred by players. On the other hand so very many players here will happily breed special stuff. Even 2 gen SAs. I've almost always been given those free when I've asked.

 

You're certainly very lucky about that, you must have good friends. If you ask anyone who is super interested in SA offspring, they certainly never refer to getting them as easy or even in some cases possible at all, as several SA owners have stopped playing altogether, and some just don't breed their dragons, for free or otherwise.

 

P.S. when I was talking about "agreeing to things when you signed on" earlier, I think if you read back you'll find I was referring to people breaking rules, not the types of dragons available when you signed up. And I still maintain that changing stuff to avoid people breaking rules (I think this was olympe's point) is complete BS. (I do mean real rules, not the fuzzy Trading Hub stuff we have for now).

Edited by Aalbiel

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1 minute ago, Aalbiel said:

You might not see them personally as less special, but they are. Simply put, it used to be, you see an offer for a 2G Prize (I'm talking forums of course), you offer a CB Gold, you've got a very good chance of getting that trade. Now, you offer a CB Gold, the only person who's going to accept that is someone who doesn't know the value of their 2G Prize.

 

Perhaps that latter person would be.... a new player who has a CB Prize? What???? Those exist??? Why yes as it happens, 60 people per month get a Prize! What a vanishingly small number. Never play the lottery.

 

As for how "special" CB Prizes are, personally I think TJ is a little too classy to be like "look at this dragon it so speshul". Maybe I'm wrong though, I don't know him well of course. However I'm pretty sure calling something a "Prize" and having it be difficult to obtain (esp. with how hard they were to get in the beginning) definitely means special.

 

Excuse me - but no. That simply isn't true. LOTS of people will trade a 2 gen prize for a CB gold. Don't ever underestimate the common decency of players here. Even the one I did trade for "cost" me about 15 COMMON hatchies bred from stuff I already owned - because the other player wanted those to fill gaps in a lineage. But I agree that very many are traded between prize owners.

 

60 a month out of WELL over 10k active players (last I heard) IS a vanishingly small percentage. MY scroll - and I joined in 2010 - is number 568,000 and change. That's - an awful lot of scrolls - and 8 years have passed since then, with a huge number of new players..

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7 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Excuse me - but no. That simply isn't true. LOTS of people will trade a 2 gen prize for a CB gold.

 

As evidenced by the increasing number of ER CB golds being sold for cheap in the hub because people repeatedly failed to get prizes for them.... 

 

In the Discord community, which is relatively small, every month there is 1 (or occasionally more) raffle winner. That's still a bunch of non-winners, of course, but I've never seen it happen that nobody got a prize.

 

It would be kinda nice to have an official number on how many players enter the raffle on average each month, unfortunately I don't think we're going to get that. If anyone who can give out this information happens to be around.... just to say I'm sure we'd all like to know.

 

Edit: If you want easier access to 2G Prizes, I suggest joining the Discord, which is a great example of generous players a lot of the time, there's the occasional raffle for a bunch of 2G prizes.

Edited by Aalbiel

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Just now, Aalbiel said:

 

As evidenced by the increasing number of ER CB golds being sold for cheap in the hub because people repeatedly failed to get prizes for them.... 

I think what we need here is some actual data on what's sold for what in the hub.

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Most of the 2g prizes are just traded for other 2g prizes.  That is why they continue to be for the most part, unobtainable for people who don't have CB prizes already.

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18 minutes ago, osmarks said:

I think what we need here is some actual data on what's sold for what in the hub.

This. I have never seen a "cheap" CB gold in the hub. Next year I'll have been playing for ten years. I've never been able to catch or trade for a CB gold. I have two that were Secret Santa gifts from back in the day. So, right now, I am saving up for another so that I can continue lineages. This doesn't make them any more or less special. Trading will invariably change according to what people want at the time that they have trades available. I've found it easier to get my hands on SA alts and 2nd gen prizes than on a CB gold. 

 

Also, regarding the special argument, people were worried that the prizes would become less special once they were re-released in later raffles or given out in larger amounts. But hey, most people can't get even one and still are willing to trade arms and legs for them. Special is a subjective concept and shouldn't be the reason behind deciding whether or not they are more obtainable. That ship sailed long ago as we can see with what happened to the holidays and frills (which were HMs for some people). They're special, but they got re-released and there's been very little backlash. 

 

ETA: @Fuzzbucket is right. The hub is not really conducive to getting 2nd gen prizes. I offered on one (what the person wanted) and it got cancelled. On the forum, I've won and been gifted several.

Edited by Jazeki
typoooos

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12 minutes ago, Aalbiel said:

 

As evidenced by the increasing number of ER CB golds being sold for cheap in the hub because people repeatedly failed to get prizes for them.... 

 

In the Discord community, which is relatively small, every month there is 1 (or occasionally more) raffle winner. That's still a bunch of non-winners, of course, but I've never seen it happen that nobody got a prize.

 

It would be kinda nice to have an official number on how many players enter the raffle on average each month, unfortunately I don't think we're going to get that. If anyone who can give out this information happens to be around.... just to say I'm sure we'd all like to know.

 

Edit: If you want easier access to 2G Prizes, I suggest joining the Discord, which is a great example of generous players a lot of the time, there's the occasional raffle for a bunch of 2G prizes.

 

The Discord does not appeal to me at all. Sorry. But I have, as I say, 3 2 gens. If I "need" more I will trade for them - here on forum. It worked fine for the one I did trade for.

 

I don't want - necessarily - more 2 gen prizes. I do want the chance to EARN a CB. Sure, actually I'd like a CB pair of each - but at 1000 shards for each one, that would take me long past me end of life date... :lol:

 

I doubt if the hub is the best place to hunt for 2 gen prizes, though.

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