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2018-07-29 - July Dragon Release (Part 2)

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In the wild, wouldn't 99% of litebrites just be blue? Green ones would only be able to happen if there were red dragons nearby and the mother litebrite let them incubate her eggs (which it's unlikely she'd ever do since being green would give them lower social status,) and purples would only be able to happen if the mother dragon fogged her eggs (which we've only seen humans have the ability to do before.) It's hard to imagine how a social hierarchy could build up over something that has no variation...

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10 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

I love the new mechanic.  It has alts that players can completely control, without having to stalk a specific biome and hope you get lucky.

 

I expect to see many beautiful lineages with Siyats, since with careful planning you can get the color you want every time.

 

Exactly. I love the control they give.

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1 hour ago, random_dragon_collector said:

For the third time, and on the third page--they now sort in M above Mint.

Thanks, but maybe you've noticed that it wasn't me who had the question. ;)

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1 minute ago, tjekan said:

In the wild, wouldn't 99% of litebrites just be blue? Green ones would only be able to happen if there were red dragons nearby and the mother litebrite let them incubate her eggs (which it's unlikely she'd ever do since being green would give them lower social status,) and purples would only be able to happen if the mother dragon fogged her eggs (which we've only seen humans have the ability to do before.) It's hard to imagine how a social hierarchy could build up over something that has no variation...

 

a fair point. While i could see the occasional late hatching happen naturally, it'd be extremely rare and usually they hatch late for a reason (too thick of a shell making it harder to get out,etc). I don't think anything in the wild naturally hatches early, so i dont' see how greens could appear naturally in the wild without a Red dragon's help xD maybe a spiteful red dragon that hates Siyats and wants to see them all be unintelligent?

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49 minutes ago, Fiona said:

To answer a few of the questions about Mimics: Yes they were originally concepted as a Halloween breed, but without real expectation that they'd be chosen for Halloween, as I think pygmies have to be very compelling to overcome the disadvantage of being a limited breeding group. I was mainly having fun. I am very pleased though that TJ liked them well enough as a regular release to use them as originally concepted.

 

They are based on several inspirations. One is vampire bats, both for their feeding methods and general anatomy. They are also based somewhat on myna birds or other birds that mimic sounds. A large part however of their inspiration comes from two separate fiction sources: one is from Lord of the Rings, where Golum is leading Frodo and Samwise through the Dead Marshes and he tells Frodo, sternly, "Don't follow the lights." That whole mechanic that the light has a hypnotic effect to draw you into danger was a main source of inspiration. The other fictional source is the jabberjays from Hunger Games, which mimic the voices of people's loved ones to taunt. In this case, rather than just voices they know, I thought it would be spookier to have the voices of the dead, and hey look, we have death mana to provide lore to support that.

That's so cool! Thanks for the information :D

 

The Mimics (do we have to discard "murder chickens now? XD) are super cool! I'm also really in love with the Siyats!! I'm having a hard time deciding which color I like the most. Thanks to TJ and spriters!

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1 minute ago, Seriva Senkalora said:

Thanks, but maybe you've noticed that it wasn't me who had the question. ;)

Ah--does it only quote the second bit?  I'm really sorry!  I thought it would nest all the quotations--my sincere apologies!

Edited by random_dragon_collector

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3 minutes ago, Sirithiliel said:

 

a fair point. While i could see the occasional late hatching happen naturally, it'd be extremely rare and usually they hatch late for a reason (too thick of a shell making it harder to get out,etc). I don't think anything in the wild naturally hatches early, so i dont' see how greens could appear naturally in the wild without a Red dragon's help xD maybe a spiteful red dragon that hates Siyats and wants to see them all be unintelligent?

My guess is that in the wild dragons usually hatch at different times anyways, depending on outer influences like season, weather etc.

Like with real animals, sometimes gestation takes a few days more or less. You can't even always tell when exactly a chicken egg will hatch.

Edited by Gluria

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Just now, Gluria said:

My guess is that in the wild dragons usually hatch at different times.

Like with real animals, sometimes gestation takes a few days more or less. You can't even always tell when exactly a chicken egg will hatch.

 

This! In the 'wild' or without players they would probably behave more like real animals and not just be influenced by BSAs :P

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@tjekan if we’re going to play the lore game, I think you’re looking at it wrong. We measely humans might have to ask Reds to help us incubate, but I’m sure normal mother dragons could take over the task just fine if they raised them alone. Similarly I’d wager they can wait longer if needed.

 

ALTHOUGH I suspect it’s rather something like lower / middle / upper class:

 

- Lowest class mothers don’t have much in the way of resources, so they have to raise their eggs as quickly as possible so they can get back to ranging for food

- Higher class mothers, on the other hand, have ample food sources and can be more patient. With no need to forage far they can take their time nesting, making sure every last touch is perfect instead of desperately, stressfully trying to overwarm the egg to an early hatching

- Middle class, of course, falls in the middle

 

In this way colors are already naturally associated with dominance rankings. Furthermore, eggs raised with a slow burn are probably healthier and more developed, perpetuating the cycle by having the means to be more dominant.

 

Perhaps these dragons are a political lesson on top of a patience one. :P

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3 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

@tjekan if we’re going to play the lore game, I think you’re looking at it wrong. We measely humans might have to ask Reds to help us incubate, but I’m sure normal mother dragons could take over the task just fine if they raised them alone. Similarly I’d wager they can wait longer if needed.

 

ALTHOUGH I suspect it’s rather something like lower / middle / upper class:

 

- Lowest class mothers don’t have much in the way of resources, so they have to raise their eggs as quickly as possible so they can get back to ranging for food

- Higher class mothers, on the other hand, have ample food sources and can be more patient. With no need to forage far they can take their time nesting, making sure every last touch is perfect instead of desperately, stressfully trying to overwarm the egg to an early hatching

- Middle class, of course, falls in the middle

 

In this way colors are already naturally associated with dominance rankings. Furthermore, eggs raised with a slow burn are probably healthier and more developed, perpetuating the cycle by having the means to be more dominant.

 

Perhaps these dragons are a political lesson on top of a patience one. :P

 

*shakes fist angrily!

Gah! The system of scale-judging injustice is perpetuated in a non-ending cycle D= 

 

a lesson in patience, or a lesson in having well-off parents so that you too can be well off xD that's more what i see

 

in your scenario, no amount of patience is going to help a Green mother get more food so that she can take care of her eggs longer =P or a green mother starving herself to try and give her children a better life than she's stuck with

 

all in all it's kind of sad to think about...

Edited by Sirithiliel

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Weird that the Mimic pygmies switches sorts. Most likely the Unique Breed Count glitch played a part in it.

 

Siyats are okay but not a fan of the Mimics...

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Think of human babies.

 

A single week can make a huge difference of how that baby comes out. Within the last 4 weeks of gestation, babies go from being about 3 or 4lbs to 7lbs. And babies that are born on due date or after are typically larger and more developed whereas babies born a few weeks early are smaller and take time to catch up development wise

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1 minute ago, Sirithiliel said:

 

*shakes fist angrily!

Gah! The system of scale-judging injustice is perpetuated in a non-ending cycle D= 

 

a lesson in patience, or a lesson in having well-off parents so that you too can be well off xD that's more what i see

 

Haha! To be fair I don’t think these guys are brutal about hierarchy the way, say, Hellfires are. Maybe by tending to follow the guidance of dragons that developed better, and thus likely ARE sharper minded, they can find a way to improve the breed as a whole.

 

...Although I’ll be honest, despite the description saying they’re smart, I can’t help but see them as excitable children going “oooOOOOOOOooo, your colors are sooo prettyyy! I bet you’re suuuper duuuper smart! :D :D :D

 

Maybe they do it intentionally to mislead predators into thinking they’re dumber than they are, haha.

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8 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

@tjekan if we’re going to play the lore game, I think you’re looking at it wrong. We measely humans might have to ask Reds to help us incubate, but I’m sure normal mother dragons could take over the task just fine if they raised them alone. Similarly I’d wager they can wait longer if needed.

 

ALTHOUGH I suspect it’s rather something like lower / middle / upper class:

 

- Lowest class mothers don’t have much in the way of resources, so they have to raise their eggs as quickly as possible so they can get back to ranging for food

- Higher class mothers, on the other hand, have ample food sources and can be more patient. With no need to forage far they can take their time nesting, making sure every last touch is perfect instead of desperately, stressfully trying to overwarm the egg to an early hatching

- Middle class, of course, falls in the middle

 

In this way colors are already naturally associated with dominance rankings. Furthermore, eggs raised with a slow burn are probably healthier and more developed, perpetuating the cycle by having the means to be more dominant.

 

Perhaps these dragons are a political lesson on top of a patience one. :P

This is genius.

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imagine the disappointment of a Purple mother, top of the hierarchy and probably rather arrogant about her own importance...and she hatches a green xD that poor child, might find itself left in the woods by its scandalized parent

 

yes i think negatively =P but it's more realistic too. Hierarchy societies come with prejudice, and usually a rough and unhappy life for those on the bottom of the ladder while those on top live the high life. The peasants farm the land while the nobles sip wine

Edited by Sirithiliel

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15 minutes ago, Sirithiliel said:

 

*shakes fist angrily!

Gah! The system of scale-judging injustice is perpetuated in a non-ending cycle D= 

 

a lesson in patience, or a lesson in having well-off parents so that you too can be well off xD that's more what i see

 

in your scenario, no amount of patience is going to help a Green mother get more food so that she can take care of her eggs longer =P or a green mother starving herself to try and give her children a better life than she's stuck with

 

all in all it's kind of sad to think about...

Here is the thing tho. Yes a green mother might have a harder time of it.... but as ADP said, I don't picture these guys being 'brutal' about it. AND what would stop a green mom from raising a blue hatchie, lets say. Think about it...with humans parents can and DO make sacrifices so that their children can have a better life than they had. ( Sometimes it works and sometimes not) BUT the point is why MIGHTN'T dragons do the same. Difficult ? yes...unfortunately, but NOT impossible.

 

That being SAID... to some extent  do get your point in that in the scenario that the greens start out at a disadvantage.

Edited by JavaTigress

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31 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

I love the new mechanic.  It has alts that players can completely control, without having to stalk a specific biome and hope you get lucky.

 

I expect to see many beautiful lineages with Siyats, since with careful planning you can get the color you want every time.

 

This is a really good way to put it. It was very very frustrating for a lot of us when we were in the middle of trying to figure out exactly what the mechanic was, but I'm sooooo glad it's something we can actually control! 

 

The adults are beautiful, but now I'm really conflicted about how I should collect these Siyats. If the only difference in their adults sprites is coloring, do I really want to have separate goals for each coloring? I have goals of 20 for each color of Nebula, but they have different poses... Hmm. Not sure about this.

 

Mimic Pygmies are AWESOME!!! Soooooo excited to see such an aggressive/evil/dark pygmy! 

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2 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

Awww, wookit the whittle murder chicken! Hehe, that settles it, these tiny terrors have definitely watched too many horror movies. XD

 

Speaking of murder vampire chickens, remember when vampires first came out and there was a panic on the forums that they were killing eggs on people’s scrolls? :’)

And people were changing sort order on their scrolls to keep them away from their eggs.

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Just now, JavaTigress said:

Here is the thing tho. Yes a green mother might have a harder time of it.... but as ADP said, I don't picture these guys being 'brutal' about it. AND what would stop a green mum from raising a blue hatchie, lets say. Think about it...with humans parents can and DO make sacrifices so that their children can have a better life than they had. ( Sometimes it works and sometimes not) BUT the point is why MIGHTN'T dragons do the same.

 

you did note where i said the green mother sacrifices her own health to give her child a better life, right? =P isn't that exactly what youer' telling me they might do?

What i'm pointing out is that the lower-hierarchy greens have to sacrifice a whole lot more to improve their child's life, in ADP's scenario 

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8 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

@tjekan if we’re going to play the lore game, I think you’re looking at it wrong. We measely humans might have to ask Reds to help us incubate, but I’m sure normal mother dragons could take over the task just fine if they raised them alone. Similarly I’d wager they can wait longer if needed.

 

 

Ok, but if dragon mothers were intentionally exercising control over the process, why would any of them ever incubate their eggs knowing it would make their offspring social pariahs?

 

And why would a poor/lowly dragon be more inclined to incubate her eggs to hatch faster? Once an egg is laid, it doesn't consume any more resources. If anything, a poor dragon who had to spend more of her time foraging would have to spend less time sitting on her eggs and they would hatch later, not earlier.

 

I mean, not that this HAS to make sense from a practical standpoint... maybe it's a magic thing... maybe litebrite dragons have a special spell to make their eggs take longer to hatch and be the coveted purple color but sometimes it backfires and makes them hatch immediately into despised greens. *shrugs*

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3 minutes ago, Sirithiliel said:

 

you did note where i said the green mother sacrifices her own health to give her child a better life, right? =P isn't that exactly what youer' telling me they might do?

What i'm pointing out is that the lower-hierarchy greens have to sacrifice a whole lot more to improve their child's life, in ADP's scenario 

*NODS* AND I did get that.... My main point is that the thing might take a more subtle form than what you are envisioning?

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Well that was easy! Just traded two CB uncommons I picked up last night for two low-ish timed Siyats (around 4 days). I will keep both fogged until purple-hatching time. 

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4 minutes ago, JavaTigress said:

*NODS* AND I did get that.... My main point is that the thing might take a more subtle form than what you are envisioning?

 

i dont' think i quite understand xD if we're still using ADP's scenario, where your class status means you have less resources to be able to take care of your hatchlings and thus are more common to get the same status-color hatchling, what is the subtle form you're thinking of?

 

if this is 'green mother has less time / resources > thus has green babies on average', then what i'm saying is true. If they want to improve their hatchling's life, they ahve to sacrifice what little they have, otherwise they just have more scandalous and undesired green babies that will be equally poor, while blues are more capable of taking care of their children and getting blues, and purples have it all and can keep having purples xD

I don't really see what subtle about any of that, in this scenario =P

 

now if we take the scenario that it's more just a natural thing and they dont' have much control over their eggs, and it's just a thing that happens when a purple or green is hatched from the more common blues, then that's different. Greens are ostracized from the community and purples are revered, but parents don't really control what child they have, and thus can't perpetuate an unfair social system by making sure they have the good purples and the poor have greens xD

Edited by Sirithiliel

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I adore the siyats, I think the color mechanic is a great and reliable way to have alts even if it takes some patience. Split on the pygmies, the females are eh but the male ones are beyond fantastic, they have such a great lore behind them too. Looking forward to locking my scroll for weeks to get an army of those lovely purples. Thank you for a great release.

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3 minutes ago, Sirithiliel said:

 

i dont' think i quite understand xD if we're still using ADP's scenario, where your class status means you have less resources to be able to take care of your hatchlings and thus are more common to get the same status-color hatchling, what is the subtle form you're thinking of?

 

if this is 'green mother has less time / resources > thus has green babies on average', then what i'm saying is true. If they want to improve their hatchling's life, they ahve to sacrifice what little they have, otherwise they just have more scandalous and undesired green babies that will be equally poor, while blues are more capable of taking care of their children and getting blues, and purples have it all and can keep having purples xD

I don't really see what subtle about any of that, in this scenario =P

 

now if we take the scenario that it's more just a natural thing and they dont' have much control over their eggs, and it's just a natural thing that happens when a purple or green is hatched from the more common blues, then that's different

Here is the thing... less resources/less time doesn't necessarily mean that you are STARVING or sacrificing your health, per se.

It may mean you have to work harder to get things done, naturally, but it depends on what you mean by less resources.

 

My own parents made the sacrifice of taking money they could very EASILY have used in other ways to send me to private school ( and we weren't RICH by any means growing up) but we certainly never went HUNGRY because of it.

 

I would add, too that ADP's scenario is just one theory. We aren't given that much detail on it in the dragons' descrips.

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