Jump to content
osmarks

Remove Sickness (or somehow change it drastically)

Recommended Posts

Just now, Fuzzbucket said:

I could live with them having to be sick for 25 hours before they died. Not so keen in no death possible in the first 24 hours. And not wild about stunting.

Can you elaborate on why or why not for those options? That's a lot more useful than just praising/rejecting a possible solution.

Share this post


Link to post

Why the 25 hours - that gives you time to notice the sickness and fog.

 

No death possible in the first 24 hours - you can still bomb them thoroughly dead after that. Stunting would make neglecting very hard - even if there were something written in covering the last day or so.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think most ND experiments do actually involve the egg getting sick.

Also, I think @Cinspawn's idea is that after 24 hours they will be immune to sickness but can still experience it before they hit 24 hours old.

Share this post


Link to post

You can't bomb them dead after 24h because after 24h death by sickness would not be possible anymore. Unless I misunderstood you.

 

EDIT: Ninja'd :lol:

Edited by Cinspawn

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

No death possible in the first 24 hours - you can still bomb them thoroughly dead after that.

I think the proposal is actually that they can only die of sickness in the first 24 hours and after that they are no longer vulnerable to sickness.

Share this post


Link to post

OK - in that case I'm not wild about that either. Sickness is there for a reason. If one of these ideas HAS to run, stunting is the only option that I'd be remotely OK with.

 

No, neglected eggs don't have to get sick. But they do have to get one hell of a lot of view sin a very short time - just the way viewbombers operate - and anything that could prevent that would be a very bad thing for neglecters.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Fuzzbucket said:

OK - in that case I'm not wild about that either. Sickness is there for a reason. If one of these ideas HAS to run, stunting is the only option that I'd be remotely OK with.

 

No, neglected eggs don't have to get sick. But they do have to get one hell of a lot of view sin a very short time - just the way viewbombers operate - and anything that could prevent that would be a very bad thing for neglecters.

I've never had a ND egg get sick while hatching it or experimenting, personally.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, DuskOfTheStars said:

I've never had a ND egg get sick while hatching it or experimenting, personally.

Me neither. They'd need a shitton of views in order to get sick at their age - which is way, way more than they need to hatch.

Share this post


Link to post

What is the suggestion at this point for stunting? (Yes, I AM to lazy to go back through the whole thread to try to find that discussion!) It would be extremely helpful if the OP could be updated with all the ideas that have come up during the discussion, but if not could someone just explain that part?

Share this post


Link to post

@Fuzzbucket So... what purpose does sickness serve which is somehow removed by it only applying in the first 24 hours?

EDIT: How exciting. Looks like my newly bred aeon and chicken have been viewbombed, and I can't hide the aeon because it's on a trade. Wonderful, isn't it?

Edited by osmarks

Share this post


Link to post
59 minutes ago, osmarks said:

@Fuzzbucket So... what purpose does sickness serve which is somehow removed by it only applying in the first 24 hours?

 

This is what I'm trying to think about here.

 

Purpose A: Force newbies to interact with their scroll and/or to read all the rules.

Purpose B: Penalize older players who leave their eggs in hatcheries and forget they're there.

 

Removing sickness completely would damage both. Personally, I think that's a lot less disruptive than the viewbombing is, but let's see if we can find a better alternative:

 

1) Replacing death from sickness with stunting from sickness. This does not prevent viewbombing, but does defang it-- the bombers can no longer kill eggs, only inconvenience players by delaying their eggs from hatching at the right time. It also, by definition, can't inconvenience players whose eggs wouldn't otherwise have died. No one will get a stunted egg who wouldn't have gotten a dead egg without the update, so it won't create any NEW annoyances.

        Purpose A: If the stunting were made physically obvious, it would still have this effect, since

           newbies would still have to figure out why it was happening and make it stop.

        Purpose B: Maybe not so much. Waiting to hatch something isn't such a big deal to older players.

           Still, it WOULD be annoying to them, so non-zero.

 

2) Eggs are only vulnerable to sickness during the first 24 hours. This does not prevent viewbombing, but makes it more inefficient for the viewbombers (since randomly selected eggs will often be immune to what they're doing), and gives players a shorter period of time in which they have to be paranoid and a guaranteed safe window during which to trade their eggs.

          Purpose A: This would be unchanged. Newbies who stuck their eggs in multiple hatcheries would

               still get dead eggs and have to figure out what went wrong.

          Purpose B: This would work if the older player was being careless by trying to get new eggs some

               early views with the intention of taking it back out again and forgot, like the time Fuzzbucket

               described. Those eggs would still have died. It would not work if a person forgot their older eggs

               were already in three hatcheries and put them in three more, or something like that.

 

3) Eggs get sick the way they always have, but cannot die till 24/25 hours later. This does not prevent viewbombing, but reduces its impact and the aggravation of having to remain vigilant against it continuously. The biggest problem with viewbombing is that it can kill an egg in a matter of minutes. If it took a whole day to do, it would rarely hurt anyone.

            Purpose A: This would still be fine, since newbies would still have to figure out how to take

                proactive action to help their sick eggs or they will die.

            Purpose B: Older players would definitely lose eggs to their own carelessness less often,

                because they'd probably notice the problem within 24 hours. They will still have to take

                proactive action to avoid egg death, though, so it's not like they can just ignore it.

 

4) We leave everything the way it is, but disable sickness during all three holiday events. This does absolutely nothing to fix the problem, but at least prevents it from having the worst effects (since holiday dragons are limited and not replaceable, and since viewbombers are most active during holidays.)

            Purpose A: Does anyone but the Grinch really care about punishing newbies on Christmas?

            Purpose B: Does anyone but the Grinch really care about punishing careless oldbies on Christmas?

  😉

 

Overall, any of these sickness-change suggestions (except the holiday exemption) would do fine at forcing newbies to figure out the rules and proactively interact with their scroll rather than just dumping eggs in and forgetting about them. They ARE less good at punishing forgetful older players, though #2 still requires them to be hyper-vigilant for the first 24 hours and #3 still requires them to remember to monitor eggs for sickness throughout growing and take proactive action if it happens. If that's not good enough, perhaps some additional annoyance could be introduced as a counterbalance? I'm not really into artificial annoyances, but it'd be much, much better than getting illegally PK'd in a freaking adoptables game?

              

Edited by tjekan

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, tjekan said:

4) We leave everything the way it is, but disable sickness during all three holiday events. This does absolutely nothing to fix the problem, but at least prevents it from having the worst effects (since holiday dragons are limited and not replaceable, and since viewbombers are most active during holidays.)

            Purpose A: Does anyone but the Grinch really care about punishing newbies on Christmas?

            Purpose B: Does anyone but the Grinch really care about punishing careless oldbies on Christmas?

(bold by me)

That's exactly what I've been calling our lovely green viewbomber, too! (Sorry not sorry for the derailment.)

 

Personally, I think the stunting would be the ideal middle ground. Either keep the egg from hatching for as long as it was sick, or make the timer go up instead of down while an egg is sick, which serves the same purpose and will not lead to question like, "Why does my egg not hatch?" Explain the sickness mechanic in the site rules or on the help page. And protect TJ's new release dragons from sickness, not just from death by sickness.

Share this post


Link to post
21 minutes ago, olympe said:

Personally, I think the stunting would be the ideal middle ground. Either keep the egg from hatching for as long as it was sick, or make the timer go up instead of down while an egg is sick, which serves the same purpose and will not lead to question like, "Why does my egg not hatch?" Explain the sickness mechanic in the site rules or on the help page. And protect TJ's new release dragons from sickness, not just from death by sickness.

 

That sorta works for me :) It means that people whose eggs get sick because they aren't paying attention will be penalised for not paying attention, as well as saving those who still don't know what they are doing from deaths.

Share this post


Link to post

My problem with stunting is that it still feels like giving too much power to The Baddies. Like tjekan said, it wouldn't create any completely new annoyances, it just replaces the deadly annoyance with a non-lethal one, albeit still one that could be abused. I want a real solution, and stunting feel like we're only half-way there. Sure, no more dead eggs, that's nice, but still too much potential for abuse. I don't want to spend extra time raising eggs because of someone else.

 

I personally like removing sickness all together best, and letting eggs only be sick for the first 24h second. Still kinda annoying, but it makes the abuse soooo much less effective.

 

The problem with the 24/25h sickness method to me is that I still won't "feel safe" knowing that someone can potentially ruin my eggs, even though it takes them a long time. Sometimes life acts up and you can't be online for 24-48 hours. If you lose an egg just because you forgot or something, okay that sucks but that's life. But if you lose because someone decided to target you and do something that's against the rules - that stings way more, in my opinion. And I feel like that should be prevented from happening.

I like the feeling of safeness of the letting eggs only be sick for the first 24h method.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

That sorta works for me :) It means that people whose eggs get sick because they aren't paying attention will be penalised for not paying attention, as well as saving those who still don't know what they are doing from deaths.

 

Also neutering the viewbombers, which is my big frustration here. They'd still be able to annoy people, but only temporarily, not by actually slaughtering their scrolls.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, tjekan said:

 

Also neutering the viewbombers, which is my big frustration here. They'd still be able to annoy people, but only temporarily, not by actually slaughtering their scrolls.

Would it not frustrate you if you have to play the game at a slower pace because of other people? The "worst part" of this game is having to wait when you're locked, I feel like it wouldn't be a good idea to gives others the possibility to make us wait even more.

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Cinspawn said:

Would it not frustrate you if you have to play the game at a slower pace because of other people? The "worst part" of this game is having to wait when you're locked, I feel like it wouldn't be a good idea to gives others the possibility to make us wait even more.

 

Yes, it would. It would frustrate me less than losing eggs I spent a long time breeding or trading for, though. We're considering different compromises. Basically any of the ones suggested so far would be better than the status quo we've got now.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, tjekan said:

 

Yes, it would. It would frustrate me less than losing eggs I spent a long time breeding or trading for, though. We're considering different compromises. Basically any of the ones suggested so far would be better than the status quo we've got now.

That's fair, I just feel like we should aim higher personally. Otherwise we're having this same thread in the future - but for non-lethal annoyances :P

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, Cinspawn said:

Would it not frustrate you if you have to play the game at a slower pace because of other people? The "worst part" of this game is having to wait when you're locked, I feel like it wouldn't be a good idea to gives others the possibility to make us wait even more.

 

If you watch your scroll it shouldn't be THAT bad. Fog as soon as it's sick and leave it fogged - and chances are it will have enough views to insta-hatch when the time comes.

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Cinspawn said:

That's fair, I just feel like we should aim higher personally. Otherwise we're having this same thread in the future - but for non-lethal annoyances :P

 

My personal favorite of the suggested compromises is the one where eggs cannot die till 24-25 hours after becoming sick. It wouldn't cause me to have to change my playstyle, nor would it cause people like Dragon_Arbock to have to change theirs, but it WOULD make the viewbombers have to significantly change theirs. Short of eliminating sickness entirely, I think this one is the option most likely to actually make viewbombers give up and find something else to do. I really don't think they're going to want to leave a window open auto-refreshing something for 24 hours straight in order to have even a chance of killing it.

Share this post


Link to post

Judging by last year, the Grinch's primary aim then was to destroy EATW.

Share this post


Link to post

Probably not. It seems that it only shut down because its API access was revoked at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Judging by last year, the Grinch's primary aim then was to destroy EATW.

 

I don't think they would have been able to accomplish this had *any* one of these partial measures been in place. Whether there were other factors going on behind the scenes or not, it was the mass killings that made it possible. Mass hatching slowdowns would have been temporary and thus not had the same impact. A 24-hour sickness requirement would have been too labor-intensive for the bombers and also made them too slow to catch many people. And the great majority of eggs in a hatchery are older than 1 day, so it would have been hard for them to use a hatchery to find victims with the 1-day limit.

Edited by tjekan

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, osmarks said:

Probably not. It seems that it only shut down because its API access was revoked at the same time.

 

I think it was fairly well documented that it was done by a sizeable paid botnet. I don't think anyone suggested that it lost API access.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I think it was fairly well documented that it was done by a sizeable paid botnet. I don't think anyone suggested that it lost API access.

It was apparently revoked after/during the attacks, to stop people adding dragons. So I guess it was because of that, though indirectly enough that whoever did it probably didn't predict that that much would happen.

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.