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2018-07-01 - July Dragon Release

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Yeah, there have been people clammering for 'muskys' in the trading hub since the very first day, and really this happens nearly every single release we have, people panic if they miss the flood and don't see them a lot in the biomes so they assume they are rare, which means if they *do* get one and want to trade it they assume they can ask for the moon (and if they see how much other people are clammering for them that makes that thought process even worse). I think it's just more obvious with this release because of the new Trading Hub, but this definitely isn't new or exclusive to Black Truffles.

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16 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

 people have been in panic rare mode since literally day one of release, so I don’t think the description has much to do with it. People were already acting insane, haha. 

 

This is true. I have seen some ridiculous offers for the eggs even before the description. Someone was offering a 2nd gen prizekin, someone else was offering a dino. Known rares for them. Any time other eggs start to mix in fairly soon after release, people freak out and go into overdrive trying to hoard them. I remember pyrals being the same, and now they are very low tier rare at best. Trios, aeons, and fire gems get more interest in trades. 

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31 minutes ago, Aalbiel said:

 

 

You'll notice there was specifically no insult. Although you won't find me complimenting anyone on their writing when they submit a completed description with whole words missing out of it. Anyway, it has been misinterpreted already, by people asking for ridiculous things in trade because it says "rare" in the description. Lots of people don't go on forums, and have only that to go on. They won't get what they're asking for so it won't skew trade values, but they will get a nice load of disappointment.

I think calling the concept "sloppy" and the dragon "ugly" is an insult. Maybe not an intentional one, but I can't imagine that the artist would be happy to see that. The missing word is distracting, but it was just an accident. Other breed descriptions have errors too. If people choose to ask ridiculous prices, they'll learn the true value with time. Most of the releases I've been here for have resulted in the same thing; everyone wants to stock up right away for some reason, and they assume new dragon = rare dragon. The Black Truffles are still dropping in the cave, so it's not like they have only the adult description to go on (which is only visible on TJ's dragons right now, via the forum).

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Well, I know I won't be collecting any more of these guys. Not a fan of the designs at all, especially the odd position of the Pyrovar dragons. Hopefully we will have some releases besides the Floret (based on quality and dragon design) I like this year...

Edited by Whirlaway

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5 hours ago, Imzadi said:

Let me guess...you got an A+ in  constructive criticism.

 

5 hours ago, Kaini said:

Good time for a reminder to be constructive and follow the forum guidelines when critiquing new sprites - be respectful to others/artists, don't insult them. This includes when responding to each other.

Okay so I it seems I have to quote some dictionary for clarification. 

amateur

[am-uh-choo r, -cher, -ter, am-uh-tur]

noun

[...]

4. a person who admires something; devotee; fan:

an amateur of the cinema.

 

Here. I wasn't trying to insult anyone. 

5 hours ago, Imzadi said:

they have some amateurs here, so good for them. 

They - Pyrovars. Amateurs - fans. Them - Pyrovars. That's it. Sorry for misunderstanding. 

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1 hour ago, The Dragoness said:

I think calling the concept "sloppy" and the dragon "ugly" is an insult. Maybe not an intentional one, but I can't imagine that the artist would be happy to see that. The missing word is distracting, but it was just an accident. Other breed descriptions have errors too. If people choose to ask ridiculous prices, they'll learn the true value with time. Most of the releases I've been here for have resulted in the same thing; everyone wants to stock up right away for some reason, and they assume new dragon = rare dragon. The Black Truffles are still dropping in the cave, so it's not like they have only the adult description to go on (which is only visible on TJ's dragons right now, via the forum).

 

Unless you weren't even referencing me, which seems unlikely, but I guess misunderstandings happen, please reread my first post. Thinking the description is a bit special snowflake and definitely should be more polished (as in no typos) has literally nothing to do with calling a concept "sloppy" or a dragon "ugly", neither of which are words I used, or would use. (I didn't even mention the dragon's appearances at all.) 

 

And to anyone who is telling me it was a mistake (the typo part), I know this obviously, it's clearly not intentional. But dragon descriptions are literally just one paragraph, at the rate of one a month, if nobody can find 5 minutes to beta-read or check before releasing then.... I guess we don't have the same definition of standards.

 

P.S. If anyone other than TJ has the power to make Grammar Patrol something other than the useless void into which we all scream, please do something. 

 

Edit: cbussiere, I changed my phrasing because that was a poor choice of a word, in the end, but I'm not going to post more about it, so you get this edit ^^

Edited by Aalbiel

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On the topic of "rare" being in the description, I'd like to point out some other dragons' descriptions.

 

Carina Dragon: "Carina Dragons, though a rare sight, are quite brilliant to behold."

Guardian of Nature: "Seen very rarely, it is thought that they only become active when something is threatening the territory they have chosen to guard."

Ridgewing Dragon:  "Occasionally different-colored individuals can be found, but they are rare because their striking coloring offers little protection."

Soulpeace Dragon: "Soulpeace Dragons aren’t easy to spot in the wild, but their rather rare appearances are said to be good omens."

 

While Guardians of Nature and tan Ridgewings actually are rare, Carinas and Soulpeace Dragons are only uncommon.

That said, I do think that the description for the Truffles is a bit misleading, at least until we know the breed's actual rarity. And there are evidently some people who are taking the "rarest breed" line at face value. Even so, it is only a dragon description and does not necessarily tell us everything. For example, we can call yellow-crested cockatoos quite rare--even critically endangered--but the fact remains that in captivity they are rather common. The same could be the case here.

 

 

Anyway, anyone else think that Black Truffles look a lot like Alt Blacks?

image.png.1e953cb71682e6d60186edc85f3dd010.pngimage.png.3aa31d4a4ac45917e35638f3ef521a79.png

Edit: Apparently so. I just went back and read the previous pages.

Edited by Erytheros
Corrected a typo

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@Aalbiel Wait, what in the description is at all weeaboo? I agree that the lack of proofreading of descriptions is disappointing, but that's an odd criticism.
 

@Erytheros I think it makes sense for Soulpeaces and Carinae. While technically labeled uncommon, they're only obtainable by breeding. That's pretty exclusive. The description for Soulpeaces also implies that they're rare specifically in the wild, which is consistent with their gameplay nonexistence in the wild.

 

Also, I'm really surprised the missing words in both descriptions haven't been fixed yet. Usually such errors are fixed quickly. People have mentioned the mistake in the Truffle's on nearly every page since it grew up and apparently the sprite was even updated, but the "extinction" remains extinct... P:

Edited by cbussiere

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I for one think the Black Truffles are gorgeous and I am glad to have two of them after the glitch eggs were replaced. Thank you for the cool dragon breed!

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A leetle sad Truffles didn't continue progressing throughout the day into truly nyan-cat levels of rainbow, but still glad they got the update they did. x')

 

@cbussiere can I move into your cave? In this one typos seem to linger on for years, especially in less-visited places like the encyclopedia or events XD

 

With the rarity thing--if they truly turn out to be caveblockers then I agree it was a poor choice, but if they do end up Coppery-level it's well and good. Someone said that rare should never be written into anything because ratios fluctuate, but I disagree; even golds and silvers went through a common spike years ago, but they are still most definitely rare, occasional oddities aside. The same is true of some of the other uncommons that go through rare on / off periods, but nonetheless tend to sit squarely on uncommon.

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I must admit I'm totally taking advantage of the truffle's supposed-rareness by trading any I find in the AP to build my messy army. Funny how I can't find a single messy for hours on end, but when I ask for one in a trade I get offers like crazy! (I do feel kinda bad for people who actually think truffles are worth, like, Dinos and Golds, though.)

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1 hour ago, Arisa said:

 

amateur

[am-uh-choo r, -cher, -ter, am-uh-tur]

noun

[...]

4. a person who admires something; devotee; fan:

an amateur of the cinema.

 

I am not sure what your native language is (and bear in mind that this is just a discussion rather than a criticism or insult, because I adore etymology). However, at least in the States, "amateur" is really never used to describe someone who is a devotee of something. It always is an antonym of skilled/professional. I believe you took your definition from here.  You will notice that 4 of the 5 possible definitions (and the top 3) all have the more negative connotation of being less skilled or otherwise less than professional. To say someone is an amateur is typically derisive. That is where the confusion came in, though the way you said it, I can certainly see what you were aiming for. It is also easy to see how others took it to mean that "they" meant the spriters were unskilled, since this definition is not in common usage. :3 

Of course, if you look at the Latin root, the definition most closely related to the origins (literally 'lover') is the one you used. It is interesting how definitions fall into and out of use as words evolve in meaning, isn't it? 

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I have to agree about the word amateur, but this is a site with many non-english speakers, so misunderstandings must be allowed for. But can we get back to some of us love these new dergs? Well, I do.

 

We have no way to estimate rarity yet, so let's not have mass panic.

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I've seen plenty of the Black Truffles today on the 5-minute shuffles, so I very much doubt that they are actually rare. User-driven rare from demand, sure, at the moment. That will most likely change in a few weeks though. 

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Guys, if TJ released these dragons then we should expect that they were both able to check out. So what if it may seem awkward? The descriptions could be tweaked, and may they will be (do note that he also had to deal with an unplanned dragon being released too)...can we just let it go?

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2 minutes ago, Firebirdwyvern said:

Guys, if TJ released these dragons then we should expect that they were both able to check out. So what if it may seem awkward? The descriptions could be tweaked, and may they will be (do note that he also had to deal with an unplanned dragon being released too)...can we just let it go?

 

It's mostly just infuriating from the standpoint of: the Pyro dragons would probably be crit'd to hell. It likely would not be able to move to the CL, while dragons that are anatomically perfect from a crit POV, or that are more complete don't get released.

 

They have such high standards for the artists of DR meanwhile in-cave artists seem to be able to get dragons in with faults that would NEVER be allowed to proceed in Dragon requests.

 

I can't speak for Black Truffles; I think they're beautiful and I am biased by that fact into believing they are complete and lovely, so I can't speak for their completeness in regards to the AP.

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4 minutes ago, Alrexwolf said:

 

It's mostly just infuriating from the standpoint of: the Pyro dragons would probably be crit'd to hell. It likely would not be able to move to the CL, while dragons that are anatomically perfect from a crit POV, or that are more complete don't get released.

 

They have such high standards for the artists of DR meanwhile in-cave artists seem to be able to get dragons in with faults that would NEVER be allowed to proceed in Dragon requests.

 

I can't speak for Black Truffles; I think they're beautiful and I am biased by that fact into believing they are complete and lovely, so I can't speak for their completeness in regards to the AP.

 

I noticed the same. Why does public DR seem to be much more heavily critiqued, yet we can have certain breeds released that would never have even made it to the Cl just because they were by a private in-cave artist dragon? 

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9 minutes ago, Alrexwolf said:

 

It's mostly just infuriating from the standpoint of: the Pyro dragons would probably be crit'd to hell. It likely would not be able to move to the CL, while dragons that are anatomically perfect from a crit POV, or that are more complete don't get released.

 

They have such high standards for the artists of DR meanwhile in-cave artists seem to be able to get dragons in with faults that would NEVER be allowed to proceed in Dragon requests.

 

Just curious here, but to what faults are you referring? My untrained eye can't seem to find anything wrong with the Pyrovars.

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Just now, Erytheros said:

 

Just curious here, but to what faults are you referring? My untrained eye can't seem to find anything wrong with the Pyrovars.

 

-solid areas of color on the wing

-elbow spikes that seem improperly placed and awkward

-twisted spine that makes for an awkward pose, back legs seem to be dragging

-maw seems misaligned and huge but the head doesn't seem like it's SUPPOSED to be broad???

-the front leg facing us almost looks clubbed; it seems too short and broad for its location.

-lower stomach is too smooshed; it looks as if the entire lower stomach is completely flat and not in the way a greyhound has a curve, like it looks like a squished lizard.

 

I'm sure there's more but this is just what I remember off the top of my head.

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@Alrexwolf I didn't notice any of that myself, but now that you mention it I can see it. To me, the sprite just looks like one of those clunky monster costumes in the old 1950s horror movies. Which I suppose isn't actually a testament to its quality, but I still can't help but enjoy the similarities. To each his own, I guess. Thanks! :)

 

Edit: I guess that seemed a little harsh. What I meant was that I like the Pyrovars in spite of their shortcomings.

Edited by Erytheros

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I feel bad that the thread is sort of sliding into negativism, but I feel the problem stems more from the long felt disconnect between creator and user than from the hard work of artists. Some things have been addressed, but others (lack of feedback on many suggestions, the weird discrepancies between DR standards and private standards) continue to go without answer.

 

I am grateful for the effort every artist puts into keeping this game afloat, but it is also really disheartening to see topics pecked to death when they’ve already more than matched the level of many in cave sprites. Again I raise the Freckles; they were still getting critique over the smallest things even when they were 99% done, and when I said I didn’t think further changes were needed I was basically privately asked to stop meddling. ;___;

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I mean, I definitely appreciate the work our sprinters put in for us - it seems as though these breeds had a lot of creative love specifically from their creators.

 

However, I feel the Pyros (again, I cannot comment on the BT without bias) could definitely use tweaking. It's not really JOTB's fault, even. But when you work alone without a critical environment (such as DR) you can see things differently than how others might.

 

I am certain JOTB knows what they were intending to do and what they see; it's just that the public's eye isn't seeing it that way. They are more than skilled enough to have had a plan and executed it the way they thought would look good when it was released. It's hard to critique one's own work, and none of us know how many interations Pyros went through to get to this stage. JOTB may have already fixed a lot; I just feel that more needs to be fixed for these to be up to par with the rest of the current cave.

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i'll echoe everyone else that while i'm not trying to insult spriters, i will say there is something about the Pyros, especially their back legs, that doesn't feel right

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3 minutes ago, Alrexwolf said:

I mean, I definitely appreciate the work our sprinters put in for us - it seems as though these breeds had a lot of creative love specifically from their creators.

 

However, I feel the Pyros (again, I cannot comment on the BT without bias) could definitely use tweaking. It's not really JOTB's fault, even. But when you work alone without a critical environment (such as DR) you can see things differently than how others might.

 

I am certain JOTB knows what they were intending to do and what they see; it's just that the public's eye isn't seeing it that way. They are more than skilled enough to have had a plan and executed it the way they thought would look good when it was released. It's hard to critique one's own work, and none of us know how many interations Pyros went through to get to this stage. JOTB may have already fixed a lot; I just feel that more needs to be fixed for these to be up to par with the rest of the current cave.

Let's not forget we have had some dragon updates in the past. Hopefully JOTB may take this with ease and help fix the dragon with our input. I'm not too crazy about this tease however, but I am willing to help catch truffles if someone else is having trouble ^^

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