A BSA to "reconsider" a refused mate

[Fuzzbucket]

Because if you breed a Val at Valentine's you will only get a Val. And refusals are NOT turned off for everything, only for the holiday breed itself. It wouldn't help with my refused waterhorse x Ridgewing which was a great disappointment and a blow to the lineage...

[Guillotine]

Not to mention that it wouldn't help if you needed a non-holiday from a pairing.
 

[Fuzzbucket]

Like what I done said but yes.

[JavaTigress]

On 6/24/2018 at 11:25 AM, HeatherMarie said:

 

How can it be our responsibility when it's completely out of our control? Yes, using Fertility can lessen the chances, but it's still *possible* for two really important dragons to refuse even with Fertility. There is no 100%-guaranteed way of avoiding a refusal, so I fail to see how exactly it's our responsibility. It would be nice if it *was* our responsibility, if we could take actions to completely prevent refusals, but right now that's not the case.

This is why I would totally support a way of at least POSSIBLY reversing those excessively painful refusals.

 

Because,ultimately, while there ARE steps we can take, it is up to the RNG.

 

 

[pinkgothic]

9 hours ago, Chaos Rider said:

I think I'm missing something. What would be the point of only allowing you to try again with refused dragons at Valentines when refusals are turned off anyway? Besides, depending on how many refusals you need to reset that means less room for catching and breeding Valentines dragons

 

Refusals are turned off at Valentines, but only for the duration of the Valentine breeding season, and only for pairings with Valentine dragons.

 

The proposed BSA would let you selectively turn off refusals at Valentine, with the effect (if successful) lasting forever, for a single chosen pair regardless of involved species.

 

(In brief, the target species and the permanence of it are different.)

[Chaos Rider]

Ah, so it's a bit like fertility then except you can only use the bsa itself at a certain time of year

[Guillotine]

22 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Like what I done said but yes.

The implication was for a non-holiday from a holiday pair, which you didn't mention.
 

[Fuzzbucket]

On 6/28/2018 at 10:30 AM, Fuzzbucket said:

Because if you breed a Val at Valentine's you will only get a Val.

 

 

Not that it matters !  Peace.

[pinkgothic]

21 hours ago, Chaos Rider said:

Ah, so it's a bit like fertility then except you can only use the bsa itself at a certain time of year

 

Yep! Exactly.  And you could use it after the refusal, rather than before the refusal.

[Alrexwolf]

I'm just going to say it plainly: I think refusals are dumb.

 

This entire game is based off of collecting and breeding - why even have a mechanic that goes against that? We have fertility to lessen it... holidays can't refuse during their breeding period because it IS such an integral part of the game...

 

Breeding pairs can already fail to produce eggs - I'd MUCH rather see the compatibility not be a permanent refusal, but just that some couples have a hard time producing any eggs at all. Because that way it's still possible. You can work at it. And we already have features in place to make breeding difficult - ratios, no egg, breeding less frequently = better chances of eggs, etc. 

 

Why do we even need refusals when we have literally so much in place that already hecks over breeding to begin with. 

[HeatherMarie]

Honestly I'd rather have a flat-out refusal then continue to breed two dragons together for months and months and possibly never ever get an egg. Some dragons aren't compatible even if they don't actually refuse, that would be made worse with no refusals at all. I very much doubt that completely doing away with refusals will ever happen, in the past TJ has seemed very reluctant about that idea, but a bsa to help lessen the impact of refusals would be very nice. (Also, I'm pretty sure holidays not refusing is more about them only being able to produce their kind once a year, not about refusals being bad or breeding itself being so needed.) (Also-also, this game is centered around collecting and raising dragons, not breeding. Breeding is a large part for many people, but that's not the main focus of the game and many people don't breed at all.)

[DigitalGarden]

Or maybe a grayed out "BREED" button on the breeding list when the dragons are not compatible at all? Or instead of that, just an info saying that it's not availlable to breed with the chosen mate because of that. OR, the incompatible dragons would simply not appear on the breeding list, but then that would confuse people as to why they are not there... Or even leave things as they are, except modify the refusal message so those not familiar with elements don't waste their time trying to breed their GoN with all the neutrals they have...

 

Idk perhaps what I'm considering above isn't that necessary, and it doesn't change the fact that a pair of pretty much irreplaceable codes recently refused under the effect of fertility. Don't even get me started on 2G SPRITER'S ALTKINS that refused before the BSA even got its power boost. Mega salt.

Not that much salt now since I've been miraculously able to switch the mates around and contact the spriter, but yyyeah.

 

If there will be no way for a BSA, how about just disabling refusals for ALL dragons on Vday at least? The solution may not make sense lore-wise (dergs hating each other suddenly decide to make this one exception because everything around them is pink. What.) - but it would be something.

 

--

 

I just thought of something completely different now. Not quite a BSA, but a location - a wishing well/shrine kind of thing. How it would basically work:

 

You enter the place where you or the dragon of your choice leave a gem or a few (the currency we collect now) and make a wish, in hopes to erase the "grudges from the past". You would end up with one of two results:

• the wish does not come true, the gem is left at the place (and out of your wallet ;p)
• the wish comes true and a refusal is reverted - in case of multiple refusals on the dragon's list, the game would cancel the oldest refusal

 

The balance to make it fair for everyone: you cannot use the wishing place more than once a week.

 

Pros:

• the chance of a refusal being reset - ideally 50/50, nobody wants a money sink that takes more than it's worth it
• possibly a small amount of gems as an offering - it's easy to earn
• a very simple concept for everyone to understand and for TJ to code

 

Cons:

• the whole process is RNG based like 90% of things on DC
• ...yyyeah, the need to spend currency to even get the chance at all, so I feel this element would be the most controversial feature here

 

??? maybe ??? I feel this needs a separate suggestion thread, I don't know, I'm rambling x.x

[49ER]

I have to say, I have been getting a LOT of refusals lately, like at a rate of 50%,  Using Fertility does not guarantee it won't refuse, but it would be nice if it did guarantee a non-refusal.  And as far as I know, refusals are no longer turned off at holidays, we used to have a link that we could use to remove them for holidays, but that is no longer valid.  So if you had a refusal in the off-season, then it will still be greyed out at holiday time.

[HeatherMarie]

23 minutes ago, Orchi'dea said:

Or maybe a grayed out "BREED" button on the breeding list when the dragons are not compatible at all? Or instead of that, just an info saying that it's not availlable to breed with the chosen mate because of that. OR, the incompatible dragons would simply not appear on the breeding list, but then that would confuse people as to why they are not there... Or even leave things as they are, except modify the refusal message so those not familiar with elements don't waste their time trying to breed their GoN with all the neutrals they have...

 

 

I'm not completely sure that sort of thing would work, since as far as I know breeding compatibility is random and decided at the time of breeding... Like, without actually trying to breed two dragons together there is nothing that shows whether or not they will be compatible, I'm not sure the game would be able to randomly decide that certain dragons aren't compatible before they are even bred together. 

 

24 minutes ago, Orchi'dea said:

 

I just thought of something completely different now. Not quite a BSA, but a location - a wishing well/shrine kind of thing. How it would basically work:

 

You enter the place where you or the dragon of your choice leave a gem or a few (the currency we collect now) and make a wish, in hopes to erase the "grudges from the past". You would end up with one of two results:

• the wish does not come true, the gem is left at the place (and out of your wallet ;p)
• the wish comes true and a refusal is reverted - in case of multiple refusals on the dragon's list, the game would cancel the oldest refusal

 

The balance to make it fair for everyone: you cannot use the wishing place more than once a week.

 

Pros:

• the chance of a refusal being reset - ideally 50/50, nobody wants a money sink that takes more than it's worth it
• possibly a small amount of gems as an offering - it's easy to earn
• a very simple concept for everyone to understand and for TJ to code

 

Cons:

• the whole process is RNG based like 90% of things on DC
• ...yyyeah, the need to spend currency to even get the chance at all, so I feel this element would be the most controversial feature here

 

??? maybe ??? I feel this needs a separate suggestion thread, I don't know, I'm rambling x.x

 

This seems overly complicated to me, for something that really doesn't need to be so complicated. Also, I really don't think most people would be happy about not being able to *choose* which refusal is reverted if there are multiple refusals with that dragon. That sort of defeats the entire point of wanting a reversal/reconsider because of a specific refusal.

[Aimmerz]

On 6/26/2018 at 11:36 PM, Kaini said:

I think I'm okay with refusals staying - some element of failure is what makes the game exciting, in the end. But I wouldn't be opposed to a 'second chance' BSA. I don't think I'd want fertility to change.

This is pretty much where I am with it. Challenges like refusals make things more exciting, spice it up a bit, but so would a "second chance" BSA, which I agree should be a seperate thing to Fertility.

[DigitalGarden]

58 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

This seems overly complicated to me, for something that really doesn't need to be so complicated.

It may just seem so in plain theory. Basically it's like: pick a dragon that has the refusal in their registry (the picking list would show only them, not the entire scroll), slap the button and you're done, literally two steps. Three if we add a password confirmation, but that's pretty much the same amount of steps some BSAs require anyway. ...Four if we pick the specific refusals...? It doesn't feel as a whole lot to me x.x

 

Unless you mean complicating as adding another location to the map/site/wherever it would be in general, then yeah, I kind of considered that to be a tiny wee issue. where would that thing go? would it be easy to see?

 

Agreed on the rest of the input, thanks! It's just a rough idea made on a whim so you guys please feel free to polish it or deconstruct and construct again or whatever you wish c : Whatever will be - hopefully, one happy day - implemented, I'll be happy with anything that does its job. xP

[HeatherMarie]

6 minutes ago, Orchi'dea said:

It may just seem so in plain theory. Basically it's like: pick a dragon that has the refusal in their registry (the picking list would show only them, not the entire scroll), slap the button and you're done, literally two steps. Three if we add a password confirmation, but that's pretty much the same amount of steps some BSAs require anyway. ...Four if we pick the specific refusals...? It doesn't feel as a whole lot to me x.x

 

Unless you mean complicating as adding another location to the map/site/wherever it would be in general, then yeah, I kind of considered that to be a tiny wee issue. where would that thing go? would it be easy to see?

 

 

I just meant complicated in what the game-us would be doing... Like, instead of just a Valentine dragon deciding to try to help two dragons connect (or whatever sort of BSA it'd be), game-us would have to travel to some specific magical place, leave a gem or shards or whatever, make a wish, and hope that wish actually does something (and actually does the *right* something) (and I'm assuming we bring along the dragon who's refusal we want to erase?). Maybe I'm just overthinking your post, I often concentrate on the 'lore' parts of suggestions and that sounds like a lot to do when you could simply ask a V-day dragon to help get a couple to reconsider.

[Fuzzbucket]

2 hours ago, 49ER said:

I have to say, I have been getting a LOT of refusals lately, like at a rate of 50%,  Using Fertility does not guarantee it won't refuse, but it would be nice if it did guarantee a non-refusal.  And as far as I know, refusals are no longer turned off at holidays, we used to have a link that we could use to remove them for holidays, but that is no longer valid.  So if you had a refusal in the off-season, then it will still be greyed out at holiday time.

 

If you breed a refused pair where one is a holiday dragon, in its season it won't refuse, but you will only get the holiday dragon. There is no way around that (And I'd rather there wasn't; the last thing I want is to get a gold when I needed a winter magi. and then be stuck for a whole year.) I have switched around several incompatible pairs in holiday checker lines and re-bred the refusing pair in the relevant holiday season, got the holiday one and got the other breed from another pair out of season.

 

I would also not like the idea of paying shards for a charm. Too complicated altogether. And I'd still rather Fleshcrownes got the BSA. With a L-O-N-G cooldown. Maybe even be like Zuys - once only ever per Fleshcrowne..

[The Dragoness]

I skimmed to save time, so ignore me if I missed something important.

 

I don't understand why the BSA should only be usable during the Valentines breeding season. Like others have said, what if you want a non-holiday egg? Or if your egg slots are already full? I don't think I'm the only one who tries to fill up all 24 slots, because we only have a few days to breed our Vals/catch breeds we missed. And two weeks is a pretty small window for reversing something as major as a refusal. A greyed out "breed" button before breeding even happens also doesn't make sense to me.

 

I would rather see the BSA remain usable all year, but with a long cool down.  

[pinkgothic]

46 minutes ago, The Dragoness said:

Like others have said, what if you want a non-holiday egg? Or if your egg slots are already full?  

Then you'd use the BSA on Valentine's Day and wait until after the Valentine season with breeding. The effects of the BSA aren't supposed to be temporary.

[The Dragoness]

28 minutes ago, pinkgothic said:

Then you'd use the BSA on Valentine's Day and wait until after the Valentine season with breeding. The effects of the BSA aren't supposed to be temporary.

Oh, I see. I thought the effect would only last for the duration of Valentines breeding.

[DragonLady86]

Not really sure why "Valentines dragons make the most sense for the BSA" equals "only works during Valentines holiday" myself.  Just because a Holiday dragon has a bsa why should it only be usable during that time frame.  Aren't holidays busy enough?   Who really wants MORE things to have remember to do during such a small segment of the year?  It makes even less sense to me with the above reply about it not being temporary.  If it is a permanent change (or chance of) why does it need to be limited to one week?  Just give it a long cool down like everything else. 

[Fuzzbucket]

Good point, says she who wants fleshcrownes..

[Yubelchen]

I support the idea fully. Code Dragons who refuse are a terrible, unlucky curse on your scroll.

You have certain options at breeding, and only refusal is the one and only you cant get around by breeding the same dragons again.

 

No egg happend? Okay, see ya two next week

Second time no egg happend? grrrrr, okay, next week....

Still no egg? rdkhfiruhgieruhrweghurgvfbh

Refusal? *flips table and leaves*

 

I am against giving the BAS to a Valentine, because what if the certain valentine dragon who has this doesnt come back? we ahve no 100% confirmation that re-releasing is a thing forever.

So a normal, all-the-year-stealable dragon should do the job, i dont care which dragon it is, but everyone should atleast have the hope to undo a refused pair.

The chances are slim, but better than than nothing.

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, Yubelchen said:

 

I am against giving the BAS to a Valentine, because what if the certain valentine dragon who has this doesnt come back? we ahve no 100% confirmation that re-releasing is a thing forever.

So a normal, all-the-year-stealable dragon should do the job, i dont care which dragon it is, but everyone should atleast have the hope to undo a refused pair.

The chances are slim, but better than than nothing.

 

I'm not sure why re-releasing not coming back has anything to do with this? Old holiday breeds are *always* breedable during their holiday, there are always *tons* in the AP to grab, so whether or not we get the CBs rereleased every single year doesn't really matter in terms of actually getting the breed in order to use the BSA. 

 

I personally think a V-day breed is the most obvious/realistic way to go, but I don't really care if it's some other breed. I'd just love it to be an option, any which way it happens.