A BSA to "reconsider" a refused mate

[catzrule1990]

This is my first idea post, so I am a bit nervous. Bear with me. ^^' 

I was thinking it would be nice to have a BSA that could be used to convince a dragon to, if successful, reconsider a refused mate. It wouldn't be guaranteed success or anything like that, it's more.. a second chance? The refused mate would be taken of the refusal list and it would be like starting out fresh. Sometimes first impressions aren't the best!  

 

I'm thinking it could function similar to this:

Use Reconsider on "Code1"

Select which mate Code1 should reconsider:

Code2

Your dragon convinces Code1 to reconsider Code2 as a potential mate. 

 

And perhaps a failure option.

Your dragon tries to convince Code1 to reconsider Code2 as a potential mate, but is unsuccessful. 

 

I'm thinking if the pairing refuses again after reconsider is use, it would then become permanent refusal. Either that or make the chances of another successful reconsider very, very low. Similar to a GoNs summon rate, perhaps.

This would be especially helpful on those hard to get mates that have refused. I don't have a CB prize of my own, but I do know there are double prize owners out there. What a nightmare it would be if the two dragons refused each other! Or those projects you invest months/years into getting the perfect pairing and then they refuse.. Or those expensive ones like 2gs for prize checkers. It would be nice to have a second chance if there was a refusal.

 

Maybe the cooldown could be 14 days? Similar to fertility. Or 1 week with a lower success rate than that of a 14 day cooldown.

Not sure which species would be good for this though.  

 

Anyway, just a little idea I had.  

[Mizashi]

You know... this has always been on the back of my mind too, but since it doesn't happen often for me I've just left it there. But you do bring up some legitimate points, like with the recent increase in CB prize owners or 2g SA collectors and whatnot, or just in general other massive lineage projects going on. I personally haven't had many refusals since I religiously use Fertility on anything worth getting out of for that first time, but whenever I did get a refusal, I would just kinda sit there and think, "Okay soo.....what, that's it?" And would just shrug my shoulders and find another CB mate or a mate with the same lineage I needed for next time.

 

But...what if the mate's not replaceable, or very difficult to replace? That would suck a lot. I'm not an avid breeder by any means, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of other people who are since I'm sure they'd have more experience with refusal chances.

 

Also I've heard about the rare times when even Fertility failed to prevent a refusal, and the thought of it kind of alarms me. I do think it might be nice to either have some sort of safeguard against it, or just a way to slowly work towards reversing it? That way it's not going to be a simple "cure" for what is supposedly meant to be a permanent refusal, but that permanence is still there as long as you don't have access to a function that can give a chance at undoing it, and trying again.

[HeatherMarie]

I'd like this, and there have been multiple suggestions about it before (seems some of the old BSA suggestions have been deleted though)...

 

 

 

The thing about making it a BSA, though, is figuring out which dragon it would be suited for. When there used to be an actual BSA section of the forums there were multiple threads on this topic, many suggesting a Valentine breed for the BSA since many of those have matchmaking tendencies. But, back then at least, it was generally understood that rares/holidays wouldn't get BSAs (that may not be true anymore). I admit I didn't look at every single breed, but from a few minutes poking around I can't think of any breed besides the Valentines ones that this would be appropriate for (I never realized how many breeds are loners/unsocial/aggressive!).

[olympe]

Well, old refusals are just water under the bridge, but we can already prevent refusals from happening by using Fertility for the first breeding (outside the holiday season), so I don't think this is needed that much. After all, it's our responsibility to make sure refusals don't happen in the first place if it's important to us.

[Fuzzbucket]

The fertility thing isn't 100% though. It reduces the chance of a referral; it doesn't make one impossible.

 

Fleshcrownes were one dragon suggested for this BSA, as they hate conflict.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[catzrule1990]

That's why I thought this would be good to have, fertility is not guaranteed to prevent refusals. A friend of mine has had post fertility refusals twice.

 

My first thought was mutamores, but that wouldn't exactly be practical. Plus it wouldn't make a lot of sense, since they only have the matchmaking behavior during a certain period of time.

I hadn't thought about Fleshcrownes.. That's actually a really cute choice. And it would bring attention to an often overlooked breed.

[HeatherMarie]

3 hours ago, olympe said:

Well, old refusals are just water under the bridge, but we can already prevent refusals from happening by using Fertility for the first breeding (outside the holiday season), so I don't think this is needed that much. After all, it's our responsibility to make sure refusals don't happen in the first place if it's important to us.

 

How can it be our responsibility when it's completely out of our control? Yes, using Fertility can lessen the chances, but it's still *possible* for two really important dragons to refuse even with Fertility. There is no 100%-guaranteed way of avoiding a refusal, so I fail to see how exactly it's our responsibility. It would be nice if it *was* our responsibility, if we could take actions to completely prevent refusals, but right now that's not the case.

[49ER]

I support any BSA that can give us a chance to breed refused dragons, even if only one time, to continue the lineage.   For example, a prize dragon x holiday, where we only have 2 cb's of each holiday.  Just the other week, I had a prize x garland and my first breeding attempt refused, which left me only one other try.  If I had more than 1 prize dragon with that holiday and/or I did not have other CB holidays of it, that would make it unbreedable at all.  If there was a way to let them breed just one time, then I could have it to continue lineage.

[olympe]

1 hour ago, catzrule1990 said:

That's why I thought this would be good to have, fertility is not guaranteed to prevent refusals. A friend of mine has had post fertility refusals twice.

 

My first thought was mutamores, but that wouldn't exactly be practical. Plus it wouldn't make a lot of sense, since they only have the matchmaking behavior during a certain period of time.

I hadn't thought about Fleshcrownes.. That's actually a really cute choice. And it would bring attention to an often overlooked breed.

Actually, it would kind of make sense if the BSA was only available during the Valentine breeding season. Which would restrict the use of Reconsider quite a bit - but with enough Mutamores, it should be enough for the most dire cases...

 

ETA: I wasn't aware that post-fertility refusals were a thing outside the case that a holiday x whatever pair was bred during the holiday season first, and then refused.

Edited June 24, 2018 by olympe

[Fuzzbucket]

23 minutes ago, olympe said:

Actually, it would kind of make sense if the BSA was only available during the Valentine breeding season. Which would restrict the use of Reconsider quite a bit - but with enough Mutamores, it should be enough for the most dire cases...

 

ETA: I wasn't aware that post-fertility refusals were a thing outside the case that a holiday x whatever pair was bred during the holiday season first, and then refused.

 

Sadly it is.

 

Quote

Fertility allows you to increase the chance that a certain dragon will breed successfully. To use it, click the action, then select one of your dragons. The next time that selected dragon breeds (regardless of mate), its chance of producing an egg will be increased

 

Not 100%. Unfortunately.

[Mizashi]

4 hours ago, 49ER said:

I support any BSA that can give us a chance to breed refused dragons, even if only one time, to continue the lineage.   For example, a prize dragon x holiday, where we only have 2 cb's of each holiday.  Just the other week, I had a prize x garland and my first breeding attempt refused, which left me only one other try.  If I had more than 1 prize dragon with that holiday and/or I did not have other CB holidays of it, that would make it unbreedable at all.  If there was a way to let them breed just one time, then I could have it to continue lineage.

Yeah it's something to be noted that with the recent influx of CB prize raffles AND CB holiday re-releases this entire past year, many, many people are bound to have at least 1 CB holiday or CB prize dragon that are not replaceable mates. That's my biggest concern. What protection would we have against refusals when Fertility fails to work in those cases? The only solutions I can think of would be to counteract it with another BSA (i.e. to be able to "neutralize" the refusal), or to just simply make a refusal 100% preventable when using Fertility.

 

If we're discussing which dragon would have this BSA, maybe this can be something that can be implemented by next year's birthday release: a brand new BSA, and a brand new dragon breed capable of it. That way we don't have to resort to looking at current dragons that would be most compatible for it (admittedly Mutamores would be an awesome choice in my opinion too, if it weren't for the fact that they're limited breeds and aren't available all year round).

 

I think I'd be a lot more daring with my breedings if a sort of "fail safe" mechanism from refusals would be possible. I don't do much now but I'd definitely be interested in starting my own lineage projects in the future if this were the case.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Mizashi
Words

[olympe]

As a matter of fact, CB holidays can be replaced. It only takes you until next year... And, truth to be told, 99% of all mates are moderately easy to replace. The only valid exceptions are valuable dragons bred from someone else's scroll, like 2nd/3rd gens from spriter's alts or Thuweds or the like.

[HeatherMarie]

32 minutes ago, olympe said:

As a matter of fact, CB holidays can be replaced. It only takes you until next year... And, truth to be told, 99% of all mates are moderately easy to replace. The only valid exceptions are valuable dragons bred from someone else's scroll, like 2nd/3rd gens from spriter's alts or Thuweds or the like.

 

Did TJ confirm somewhere that the CB holiday re-releases will continue every year? I don't remember him actually confirming that, so unless you know something I don't we actually have no real reason to assume that something that happened for each holiday once, will continue indefinitely. And the whole 'moderately easy to replace' is a HUGE assumption on other people's luck and abilities. Some people try for years before getting a CB Gold, for instance, so 'moderately easy to replace' is really not true at all (for reference, I have seen *two* CB Golds in the biomes the entire 10 years I've been playing, and until very recently I was never able to catch anything valuable enough to have any chance at all of trading for a CB Gold). 

[DragonLady86]

hmm,  while I'm not against Fleshcrowns, if the idea of a Valentine dragon having it is preferred, why not make it a blanket bsa and give it to all of them?  Not that I can personally see needing that many, but it would nicely combat the limited-ness of any one holiday breed.  but I don't breed enough to be overly concerned about refusals either. 

[a_god_s]

I still mourn refusals from before the Fertility option, so a BSA would be welcomed but I would suggest a Valentine Day (one-shot) Blessing.

It would only be available once, on Feb. 14, and be good for only one pairing.

[Fjord]

There's also code dragons to consider. Found those perfect codes that were basically meant for each other, but they refuse even after fertility? Touch luck, you're not getting a replacement for that any time soon.

 

Maybe not a BSA, but a side event every Valentines would be perfect imo. Stylize it as a Mutamore (or other Val breed) that wants to help heart broken dragons, and so they'll help reconcile a refused pair and give them another chance. Thankfully, fertility fails are relatively rare, so a once a year second shot should be enough for most folks.

[Luxrayx]

I don't see why refusals can't be removed altogether. It's not a fun or interesting gameplay mechanic, it just makes you go through a few extra steps to decrease the chance of an important dragon becoming permanently useless. I'm all for breeding having a chance to fail, but when that failure can be permanent, you're just punishing the player for no real reason.

 

Anyway, I doubt TJ would remove a feature after all these years, so a BSA sounds like a nice compromise. Mutamores sound like the best option given their breed description, even if having such a useful BSA restricted to a single holiday dragon would be kind of frustrating. Also, if it could only be used within, say, a week of valentine's day, it would fit well within DC's usual standard of rewarding players for patience. No matter how it's pulled off, I support this suggestion 

[olympe]

21 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

Did TJ confirm somewhere that the CB holiday re-releases will continue every year? I don't remember him actually confirming that, so unless you know something I don't we actually have no real reason to assume that something that happened for each holiday once, will continue indefinitely. And the whole 'moderately easy to replace' is a HUGE assumption on other people's luck and abilities. Some people try for years before getting a CB Gold, for instance, so 'moderately easy to replace' is really not true at all (for reference, I have seen *two* CB Golds in the biomes the entire 10 years I've been playing, and until very recently I was never able to catch anything valuable enough to have any chance at all of trading for a CB Gold). 

I doubt TJ would code a whole holiday biome (as has been suggested here in S&R) for only one year when the whole argument was built on making old CB holidays available for everyone. It would seem illogical, and from what I could observe, TJ seems to be a person of logic.

 

I may have seen a couple more CB golds in the cave/biomes, but I've caught just as many as you. Zero. And yet, I somehow managed to get my fill of old CB holidays during the first run-through of the re-release. Yes, even hollies. Then again, I could focus on the oldest breeds because they were the only ones missing from my scroll, so that might play into it. And, yes, hunting for hollies on days 1 and 3 was hell - and not exactly successful for me. Day 2 was a different matter, and later on, it got even easier to catch the oldest breeds. So, compared to CB golds, even CB hollies are moderately easy to get.

[Fuzzbucket]

"Code" dragons are a whole different thing though. They ARE irreplaceable.

[bluedog]

I like the idea of allowing a second chance on refusals.

[HeatherMarie]

I was ridiculously lucky in the holiday re-release biomes, which is why I spent much of the time gifting and trading Hollies (and Pumpkins) to those who weren't so lucky. But what is easy or hard to replace is very, very subjective, depending on very individual things like reflexes and internet speed and trading ability etc etc. I don't think assumptions on how easy a refusal would be to replace is a very valid point against this suggestion, since that ease is totally different from player to player. And, as others have mentioned, when it comes to *codes* there simply *is* no replacement possible. (And honestly, even if the specific dragon was 'easy' to replace, what's the harm in allowing them to try again before going through the trouble of finding a replacement?)

[olympe]

Personally, I'd rather have fertility make refusals impossible than have an action to use after the fact. (Or take refusals out of the game entirely...) But that could just be me, I don't know. Because then it woudl be our responsibility to take care refusals don't happen, instead of crying over spilled milk. You get the idea. (And, yes, I'm also 100% aware of old refusals from way back when.)

[HeatherMarie]

If Fertility could allow an old refused pair to try again while making actual refusal impossible, I'd be okay with that. And while I very much doubt refusals will ever be done away with completely, I don't personally care much if they are. I would very much like *something* to be implemented to allow old refusals to try again, though, whether a new BSA or a tweak to Fertility or something else entirely. It's not *new* refusals I'm concerned about (although I do have a limited amount of Purples to use...), it's those old refusals that I'd love a second chance on. (Especially those old refusals from before Fertility even helped at all with lessening refusals, ie back when we literally had *no* control over refusals.)

Edited June 26, 2018 by HeatherMarie

[Kaini]

I think I'm okay with refusals staying - some element of failure is what makes the game exciting, in the end. But I wouldn't be opposed to a 'second chance' BSA. I don't think I'd want fertility to change.

[Chaos Rider]

I think I'm missing something. What would be the point of only allowing you to try again with refused dragons at Valentines when refusals are turned off anyway? Besides, depending on how many refusals you need to reset that means less room for catching and breeding Valentines dragons