A bigger AP?

[Aurora-Silver]

Hey there, Players!

I have been searching, but couldn't find it anywhere, so...

I had a little inspiration through a dream and dreamed of a bigger AP page. Alright, in my dream my imagination literally overdid it and the whole Browser Page was full with Eggs.

 

That may be not exactly what I seek, but how about a bigger AP, after all? More than 30 Eggs per Page?

[StormWizard212]

How big are you suggesting the AP becomes? What do you see as the benefits of this expansion? 

 

Personally, I'm not quite sure what the benefit would be. I've seen people suggest that no more than one egg from a certain breed or breeder appear in the AP at once, or for eggs to vary with refreshes/shuffle like the five minute drops, and I can see the benefit of those suggestions. I'm not quite sure what the benefit of just seeing more would be, though. I suppose there would technically be more variety, but I find the AP is either in one of two states already: 1) there is variety on the page (and refreshing often yields a few new eggs), or 2) someone has mass bred and everything is the same breed/lineage. In both of those scenarios, I don't know how viewing more eggs at once would really make that much difference. 

 

So what, in your mind, would the new AP look like? Just more rows of eggs? Or something else? 

Edited June 3, 2018 by StormWizard212

[HeatherMarie]

I don't really see a benefit to a *bigger* AP... There is normally tons of variety in the AP, both in terms of breeds and lineages (sure there's the occasional mass-breed wall, but those normally clear up within a few hours). What exactly would a bigger AP do that the current one doesn't? It's not like eggs are in danger of dying because too few are shown, or anything like that. While it might be fun/interesting to see more then 30 eggs at once I can't think of any actual *benefit* to it, any actual reason to change what we have now. 

[Aurora-Silver]

More Eggs would simply mean a greater variety and more to grab : )

I enjoy Egg Hunting in the AP so I'd love to see more rows of Eggs being available.

It would also mean that the AP gets cleared faster. And I am actually being very patient and keep refreshing very, very often to get and check what I'd like to get.

 

I'm sure we all could benefit from a bigger AP.

[olympe]

Hmm, what about mobile users? I've never tried AP hunting on a mobile device, but I imagine that it's not that easy due to small screen size. A bigger AP would make this even worse. And cost more of our precious mobile data...

[Fuzzbucket]

This would make life impossible for mobile users, and for that reason, I don't support it (And I am not usually a mobile user - but they have so much trouble with the AP as it is...)

 

I also don't see why the AP would clear any faster.

[HeatherMarie]

9 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I also don't see why the AP would clear any faster.

 

I'm not sure I understand that either. How would showing more AP eggs actually 'clear' it faster? If the bigger AP is wanted in order to see more variety or a better selection, many users will most likely grab from that 'better selection', ie the 'extra' eggs, and that would still leave all the 'regular' eggs that don't get picked up quickly in general. 

 

There are 30 eggs in the AP at once. Right at this moment (just looked) there are 15 different breeds showing. I honestly think that's a fine amount of variety right there.

[StormWizard212]

I also don't really see how this will help the AP clear any faster. I can see how it would be a genuine frustration for mobile users, though, and for that reason I don't support this either. I haven't seen a compelling argument yet that justifies an expansion. 

[Sextonator]

I'd love an "endless scrolling" type option, but I understand some people can find that unfair.

 

But I do give a support for a bigger ap, I'd hunt it more if I could see more than 30 eggs.

[HeatherMarie]

What is the advantage of a bigger AP, though? Besides simply 'more eggs', I don't see an actual benefit there. As I said before there is already *plenty* of variety in the AP (right now there are 17 different breeds). What is it about an AP with, say, 40 eggs, that would make it so much better then an AP with 30 eggs? There will still be the same variety, and mostly likely roughly the same types/numbers of breeds as well. 

 

I could see the advantage/benefit of the extreme side of, like, showing *all* AP eggs at once, but simply making the AP a little 'bigger' doesn't really seem like it would make much of a difference.

[PrincessLucy]

I play on my phone, and, as it is, I can only see 4 rows on my phone without scrolling down. 

 

I would hate to see more eggs there, as that would lesser my chances of grabbing anything good before someone using a home computer can.

 

[purplehaze]

I don't understand how seeing more eggs would make it better. People would still grab the "best" eggs as soon as they appear, so all you would have left would be more of the more common things. If you don't like what's there at the moment, come back later.

 

I don't use mobile myself, but if this would make AP hunting harder for those who do, then that is reason enough to reject it, I think.

[skwerl56767]

   There may not be any obvious advantages to having a bigger AP, but I say, what are all the disadvantages? The only one I can think of is that mobile users might have a harder time, if all of the "good eggs" are grabbed by computer users before mobile users even see them, but all that does is frustrate some mobile users and cause others to switch to the computer. Only those who literally don't own a computer would be stuck.
   Now, I can't think of any good solutions to give mobile users a fair advantage, but at the same time I'm remembering that A: mobile users technically already are at a disadvantage, as PrincessLucy said, so having more eggs to scroll through doesn't really hurt them because they're already not seeing those extra eggs (like the rest of us right now), and B: Even though people are always more likely to grab rares, some people aren't hunting for rares. Some people, such as myself, are looking for an uncommon or bred breed, which we know will show up in a couple of hours when we're offline as the AP moves, but otherwise is invisible. Will the AP still be blocked by mass-breeding and events? Of course, but if we want to fix that making the AP page bigger obviously isn't the solution. Showing more AP eggs just broadens the potential options of the hunter, and sometimes AP hunters choose eggs with more time on purpose; and heck, the fact that PrincessLucy can see four of the five AP rows on her phone is pretty darn good! (Unless the rows are shorter on mobile and she didn't disclose that.)
   Another thing to think about is, even if people rarely grab from the new rows of eggs added from AP expansion, there's always a *chance* that they will be grabbed from, and that will help shrink the AP backlog and shuffle new eggs in with the old. If those rows of eggs are hidden like they are now, there's no chance of that. After all, if we show only six eggs in the AP, it will shrink the backlog and add new eggs in much slower than if we see the thirty we have now, right? So logically the backlog can shrink a bit more and shuffle eggs more frequently if we have say, sixty eggs that have a chance of being grabbed, even if the shrinkage is marginal.
 

   So my position on this is, why not? If it doesn't work TJ can just restore a backup of the old code during server maintenance and we'll be back to normal (at least, I'm assuming he backs up the main server files now and then). We already know the AP is in a sort of "sweet spot" right now in terms of showing all the eggs on any screen. If we don't try it though we'll never know if the benefits outweigh to flaws, or even if any benefits exist.

Edited June 4, 2018 by skwerl56767
Formatting oops

[StormWizard212]

55 minutes ago, skwerl56767 said:

So my position on this is, why not?

 

55 minutes ago, skwerl56767 said:

If we don't try it though we'll never know if the benefits outweigh to flaws, or even if any benefits exist.

 

This isn't really a compelling argument and I don't really get the rationale behind introducing a change in order to figure out if it will benefit the site, and then reversing it if it "doesn't work". 

 

As far as I can tell, the main benefit of this suggestion is seeing more variety and being able to grab the eggs desired more immediately, with a potential result being that the AP might clear slightly more quickly. With the recent introduction of a market that allows people to buy almost any breed with a bit of patience, I'm wary of any further changes to the game that make it easier and remove the element of challenge. This is not a criticism of the market (I'm very happy about the market) but I don't actually want so much variety that I can find exactly what I want exactly when I want it. We already have plenty of variety - all the current eggs in the AP, all the biomes, and now the market. There is also the easily accessible trading hub now where you can search for exactly what breed you want to trade for. I really don't think breed variety/accessibility is an issue. And if that's not the purpose of this suggestion, then I'm back to my original position of wondering what the purpose actually is. 

 

Change for the sake of change, without clear justification, is not something I'm ever likely to support. The 'why not?' argument could be applied to absolutely anything in the game. Why not have 12 eggs show in each biome rather than 3? I'd like to see more specific reasons about what this would actually add to the game.

[Ruby Eyes]

2 hours ago, StormWizard212 said:

being able to grab the eggs desired more immediately, with a potential result being that the AP might clear slightly more quickly.

Not really. It would leave the undesired eggs sitting there just as before, just more of them.

[Sheriziya]

57 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Not really. It would leave the undesired eggs sitting there just as before, just more of them.

I agree.

 

I usually hunt the AP instead of the cave, except when there's a new release. Right now I'm regularly finding it hard to find the egg of the breed I'm looking for simply because it can get lost in a sea of similar colors. If there are even more rows.....

I actually find a reason against adding more rows:

If there's a breed you're actively searching for on the AP, you'll need to look at even more rows than now to find it, which means less refreshing is done, which means the possibility even less eggs are picked up.

Additionally, for those who have slower internet connections, it takes longer to load the AP.

Another reason: For those who already have trouble with their eyes with computer screens, a bigger AP will mean more stress on the eyes.

And, of course, for the mobile users it's not doable. At the moment, on my phone, I see 5 rows of 6 eggs without scrolling, which is of course the normal AP. For those who have a smaller screen, they'll see less.

 

I only see a benefit for those who hunt the AP for regardless any egg. In that case it doesn't matter which egg you click. Otherwise, the more eggs there, the more you need to really look at the all the eggs to find the one you're looking for.

 

TLDR: I'm against it.

[Ruby Eyes]

7 minutes ago, Sheriziya said:

I only see a benefit for those who hunt the AP for regardless any egg. In that case it doesn't matter which egg you click.

Even for these, more visible eggs at once aren't eggsactly necessary. They just click 8 eggs and are done - egglocked.

[Sheriziya]

Just now, Ruby Eyes said:

Even for these, more visible eggs at once aren't eggsactly necessary. They just click 8 eggs and are done - egglocked.

Indeed, I hadn't thought of that So... still against it

[DragonLady86]

If you are not interested in any of the 30 eggs you can see now, what makes you think seeing more would suddenly make desirable eggs appear?  The same eggs will be in the AP and disappear at the same rate so it will just show MORE eggs you likely do not want. It's not going to magically make whatever your hunting for show up any more frequently.

[Fuzzbucket]

6 hours ago, skwerl56767 said:

   There may not be any obvious advantages to having a bigger AP, but I say, what are all the disadvantages? The only one I can think of is that mobile users might have a harder time, if all of the "good eggs" are grabbed by computer users before mobile users even see them, but all that does is frustrate some mobile users and cause others to switch to the computer. Only those who literally don't own a computer would be stuck.
 

 

And there are a LOT of people here in that position. You only have to look at all the threads when something goes wrong wit the mobile layout. and from what I know of computing in general, the proportion of mobile users to desktop/laptop users is rising all the time.

 

Quote

 

   Now, I can't think of any good solutions to give mobile users a fair advantage, but at the same time I'm remembering that A: mobile users technically already are at a disadvantage, as PrincessLucy said,

 

 

But you can think of a reason to make it even worse for them ? Nice.

 

Quote

heck, the fact that PrincessLucy can see four of the five AP rows on her phone is pretty darn good! (Unless the rows are shorter on mobile and she didn't disclose that.)

 

It's good that she can't see all the rows and I can ? I don't think so.

 

Quote

   Another thing to think about is, even if people rarely grab from the new rows of eggs added from AP expansion, there's always a *chance* that they will be grabbed from, and that will help shrink the AP backlog and shuffle new eggs in with the old. If those rows of eggs are hidden like they are now, there's no chance of that. After all, if we show only six eggs in the AP, it will shrink the backlog and add new eggs in much slower than if we see the thirty we have now, right? So logically the backlog can shrink a bit more and shuffle eggs more frequently if we have say, sixty eggs that have a chance of being grabbed, even if the shrinkage is marginal.

 

We still have the same scroll limits, so the same number of eggs will be grabbed As far as I know the number of players isn't increasing exponentially to make this statement even make sense.

 

Quote

 If we don't try it though we'll never know if the benefits outweigh to flaws, or even if any benefits exist.

 

I wouldn't want to try, thanks; I can see not one single benefit. But here's a thought - so that everyone can see everything, why not have only ONE row; then all those eggs will go instantly and a new lot will show.

 

That makes about as much sense as this suggestion.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[purplehaze]

11 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I wouldn't want to try, thanks; I can see not one single benefit. But here's a thought - so that everyone can see everything, why not have only ONE row; then all those eggs will go instantly and a new lot will show.

 

That makes about as much sense as this suggestion.

Or we could go back to having the AP block the biomes like it used to. Then people would have to take AP eggs or nothing and the AP would clear faster. Do we like that idea?

 

Personally I like having the AP stuffed! It is nice to have low times on the eggs so when you grab them they are incuhatchable. What is wrong with that? If the AP "clears" we will have 7 day eggs in the AP, people will not pick those up as fast, and we will go back to having a backlog. The closer the AP gets to 7 days, if you have never noticed, the slower it moves. Then as times creep lower the eggs start moving faster again. Rinse. Repeat.

[Herk]

32 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

Or we could go back to having the AP block the biomes like it used to. Then people would have to take AP eggs or nothing and the AP would clear faster. Do we like that idea?

 

Personally I like having the AP stuffed! It is nice to have low times on the eggs so when you grab them they are incuhatchable. What is wrong with that? If the AP "clears" we will have 7 day eggs in the AP, people will not pick those up as fast, and we will go back to having a backlog. The closer the AP gets to 7 days, if you have never noticed, the slower it moves. Then as times creep lower the eggs start moving faster again. Rinse. Repeat.

 

Eggs-actly!

 

What is that obsession with 'clearing' the AP? I really don't get it. Back when it blocked - sure. But nowadays I LIKE my low-time eggies and I can't get them if the AP is 'clear'

[HeatherMarie]

6 hours ago, purplehaze said:

Or we could go back to having the AP block the biomes like it used to. Then people would have to take AP eggs or nothing and the AP would clear faster. Do we like that idea?

 

Personally I like having the AP stuffed! It is nice to have low times on the eggs so when you grab them they are incuhatchable. What is wrong with that? If the AP "clears" we will have 7 day eggs in the AP, people will not pick those up as fast, and we will go back to having a backlog. The closer the AP gets to 7 days, if you have never noticed, the slower it moves. Then as times creep lower the eggs start moving faster again. Rinse. Repeat.

 

This is a very good point!! The whole idea of wanting to 'clear' the AP doesn't really make sense, because the higher the time in the AP the less people actually want to hunt from it. 'Clearing' the AP was a needed thing when the AP would block the biomes, but now it's really not a needed thing at all, and actually it's a *bad* thing if it means a high-timed AP that no one wants to hunt. 

 

8 hours ago, Sheriziya said:

I usually hunt the AP instead of the cave, except when there's a new release. Right now I'm regularly finding it hard to find the egg of the breed I'm looking for simply because it can get lost in a sea of similar colors. If there are even more rows.....

I actually find a reason against adding more rows:

If there's a breed you're actively searching for on the AP, you'll need to look at even more rows than now to find it, which means less refreshing is done, which means the possibility even less eggs are picked up.

Additionally, for those who have slower internet connections, it takes longer to load the AP.

Another reason: For those who already have trouble with their eyes with computer screens, a bigger AP will mean more stress on the eyes.

And, of course, for the mobile users it's not doable. At the moment, on my phone, I see 5 rows of 6 eggs without scrolling, which is of course the normal AP. For those who have a smaller screen, they'll see less.

 

Very good points here as well! So, for anyone saying they see no disadvantages or downsides to this suggestion... Here you go! 

 

Also, like @StormWizard212, I'm normally going to be against change just for the sake of change, especially when there are no clear benefits and are multiple clear downsides. The fact is, a 'bigger' AP does not automatically mean a better selection, or more variety. It just means more eggs, which could very well be more eggs of the exact same breeds that are there now, that are not being picked up quickly. Bigger doesn't always mean better. And doing something just for the sake of doing it, when there is no clear advantage to it... Doesn't make much sense to me.

[Paintra]

13 hours ago, skwerl56767 said:

Now, I can't think of any good solutions to give mobile users a fair advantage, but at the same time I'm remembering that A: mobile users technically already are at a disadvantage, as PrincessLucy said, so having more eggs to scroll through doesn't really hurt them because they're already not seeing those extra eggs (like the rest of us right now).

 

I'd like to dispute this: On mobile, as it is now, I can see all 30 eggs immediately upon refreshing (apologies for the large screenshot, by the way):

 

As it is now, I have no disadvantage catching desirable eggs on mobile. I've caught everything from dropped hatchies to a CB Astrapi, more recently, on my phone. I play about 50% of the time on mobile, so decisions that affect mobile would affect me in those ways. As you can see in the screenshot, though, I can barely see all five rows of eggs. The time left before death timer is cut off at the bottom of the screen, but I can still see each individual eggs. It's easy to assume that adding rows would create a disadvantage to catching desirable eggs, especially since most appear at the bottom of the screen, as the newest eggs, which is what is most likely to be cut off. Unless the whole abandoned page was revamped for mobile, putting more eggs in the AP viewing screen would create a direct disadvantage for mobile users in the same boat as me.

 

As well as this, I'd like to add that everyone's comments about undesired eggs staying where they are is absolutely true. Making more eggs visible just gives undesirable eggs more space to take up. Alongside that, like many other users in this thread, I genuinely don't get why it is necessary to clear the AP. It's not like eggs are dying- the closest we've gotten recently is during DC's anniversary when people were breeding so many eggs the AP dropped to ~3 days- and people were still able to pick up all those eggs before they even got close to dying!

 

TLDR; Like many other users in this thread, I think this change is unnecessary and can also directly disadvantage some users.

[bluedog]

The current five lines fill my screen; any more lines would be too much. I would prefer to see faster turnover of eggs, but that is provably for another thread.