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Shokomon

Watching the Market

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2 hours ago, Charu said:

I am collecting CB Xenos for a silly lineage idea and I have a feeling people just camp the cave page and swipe anything that started with "mana" and see if it's a Staterae later. 

There's no reason to wait if you are looking for any other xeno, too. I did accidentally get my Staterae that way. :rolleyes: Back then (4th december) they costed around 1.200 on market and I thought they aren't so rare. :D
 

2 hours ago, Charu said:

Other than the BSA to get the GoN, which you can only get 3 of, I don't think the BSA should account for that much of the cost.

But it can take years to get them, and more sets = more chances to.

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Because I haven't done this in a bit. Here are the current prices for rare dragons and other dragons of interest.

 

Prices of Rare Dragons and Dragons of Interest:

Spoiler

Aeon Wyvern
1,700

 

Blusang Lindwyrm
1,200

 

Cheese Dragon
2,400


Copper Dragons
1,500

 

Gilded Bloodscale Dragon
1,000

 

Gold Dragon
2,000

 

Golden Wyvern
1,700

 

Ice Dragon
3,400

 

Magma Dragon
4,700

 

Nexus Dragon
1,600

 

Paper Dragon
2,600


Silver Dragon
1,600

 

Thunder Dragon
3,400


Xenowyrm (Staterae)
2,600
Xenowyrms (2015)
500
Xenowyrms (2020)
100

 

Diplodocus carnegii
2,200

 

Gallus gallus domesticus
3,700

 

Parasaurolophus cyrtocristatus
1,800

 

Pterodactylus maximus
2,200

 

Stegosaurus stenops
2,400

 

Triceratops horridus
2,200

Bolded = the most expensive item; Underlined = True Rares; Italicized = Interesting or Unsual Pricing; Green = Price Down from last post; Red = Price Up from last post

  • Nexuses are expensive because reasons.
  • So are Glided Bloodscales.
  • Gold and Silvers are still cheap as heck, and I don't understand why.
  • The Straterae continue to trend up, and I'm sad.
    • I'm so lucky to have grabbed one during the initial release, because I don't think I could get one now.
  • Dino prices are going down, which is good for me, because I need dinos.
  • Lastly, Magmas are forever the most expensive thing on the board, and it's a mystery to everyone as to why.
    • I still think we are missing a lore bit to their expensive cost.

And that's it.

 

Discuss away!

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6 minutes ago, Shokomon said:

Because I haven't done this in a bit. Here are the current prices for rare dragons and other dragons of interest.

 

Prices of Rare Dragons and Dragons of Interest:

  Reveal hidden contents

Aeon Wyvern
1,700

 

Blusang Lindwyrm
1,200

 

Cheese Dragon
2,400


Copper Dragons
1,500

 

Gilded Bloodscale Dragon
1,000

 

Gold Dragon
2,000

 

Golden Wyvern
1,700

 

Ice Dragon
3,400

 

Magma Dragon
4,700

 

Nexus Dragon
1,600

 

Paper Dragon
2,600


Silver Dragon
1,600

 

Thunder Dragon
3,400


Xenowyrm (Staterae)
2,600
Xenowyrms (2015)
500
Xenowyrms (2020)
100

 

Diplodocus carnegii
2,200

 

Gallus gallus domesticus
3,700

 

Parasaurolophus cyrtocristatus
1,800

 

Pterodactylus maximus
2,200

 

Stegosaurus stenops
2,400

 

Triceratops horridus
2,200

Bolded = the most expensive item; Underlined = True Rares; Italicized = Interesting or Unsual Pricing; Green = Price Down from last post; Red = Price Up from last post

  • Nexuses are expensive because reasons.
  • So are Glided Bloodscales.
  • Gold and Silvers are still cheap as heck, and I don't understand why.
  • The Straterae continue to trend up, and I'm sad.
    • I'm so lucky to have grabbed one during the initial release, because I don't think I could get one now.
  • Dino prices are going down, which is good for me, because I need dinos.
  • Lastly, Magmas are forever the most expensive thing on the board, and it's a mystery to everyone as to why.
    • I still think we are missing a lore bit to their expensive cost.

And that's it.

 

Discuss away!

 

We *must* be missing something with Magmas, I know I see them in the biomes a heck of a lot more often than even Thunders or Ices, why so dang expensive?? Golds/Silvers being so comparatively cheap is really strange as well, I remember back when the Market was first introduced (and before, with the Trader's Canyon suggestion) the idea was generally 6-ish months to earn a rare (I remember talk of 6-9 months too). Golds are now at 4 1/2 months and Silvers a tad over 3 1/2 months. 

 

At this point I'm wondering about three different possibilities: Is it possible Golds/Silvers simply aren't The True Rares anymore, after years of new breeds and Stats and etc? Or maybe the Market prices are simply out of whack in some way and it's something that should be tinkered with coding-wise? Or maybe at this point the Market is basically a Separate Entity and just no longer follows the normal ratios/rules/etc in regards to rarities and such?

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I haven't been able to catch a Staterae on my own yet. I bought 2 from the Market as soon as I could, and traded for the other 2. I also bred 2 and gifted them away, so in total, I handled 6 of these.

 

I have been catching Magmas without any issues (aka when I see them, I click and *get* them because nobody else clicks them.) I can easily trade them away so it's not that nobody would want them. *shrugs*

 

And recently, I unearthed a Cantormaris and a Paper in the same shuffle. I clicked the Canto, then clicked the Paper, and got *only* the Paper.

 

Conclusion: Rarity and player demand do not always seem to go hand-in-hand.

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I was SO lucky on release day - someone had caught 6 staterae, not realising there were others, and I was able to trade for two ! (we had no idea what was going to happen next !)

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Is it possible the prices work differently than previously considered? For example, if nexuses aren't in high demand and are just sitting in the cave, the market price goes up to create a false impression of value and drive up cave collection of them? Just throwing that out there, I honestly can't think of any other ideas except that market prices are random but slightly affected by rarity and population.

 

Obviously for high-demand breeds, the price goes up because of high collection in the cave, but perhaps there is more to it than that?

Edited by Diggie

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There is also breeding. Maybe there are currently more actively bred Nexus lines than other 2-heads?

 

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21 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I was SO lucky on release day - someone had caught 6 staterae, not realising there were others, and I was able to trade for two ! (we had no idea what was going to happen next !)

 

I actually caught 8 Staterae on release day, the only reason being that I was late and started hunting right during the Stat "flood".

I did end up trading two away, one for one, for a couple of new xenos because I was worried about how quickly those were becoming hard to catch. 

But I made sure to buy 2 Stats as soon as they became available at 1,200 shards.

So a lot of luck involved, along with a gut feeling that their price would go way up.

 

Also for those who are still looking, don't give up on luck, a friend of mine caught one a few weeks ago even after staring at it in surprise for about 5 seconds.

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Unfortunately I wasn't on DC when the Staterae were dropping in higher numbers so I completely missed out. Add me to the chorus of folks who are like 2 weeks away from buying a market one... indefinitely it seems. :rolleyes: Wonder what the price will be when it finally stop increasing, I'm starting to expect 4000 like Golds used to be. Kinda funny how much less rare/expensive Golds and Silvers are now, good prices for people who don't need more Staterae though. It's also interesting to me that the other new Xenos still cost 100 shards and haven't gone up with Stateraes, makes me wonder how shard prices are really calculated as I don't think it lines up with the cave ratios or player's breeding habits either. Feels like it's based on something different.

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That's true.

 

It's not hard to get Xenos...

 

Just Staterae Xenowyrms. 

 

Though, to be fair, they are supposed to be an ancient god-like species that is the origin of all modern Xenowyrms, so maybe they are supposed to be rare? 

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On 3/24/2021 at 1:03 AM, Shokomon said:

maybe they are supposed to be rare? 

 

I'd say we can be quite sure of that by now.

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On 3/22/2021 at 8:04 PM, Charu said:

Other than the BSA to get the GoN, which you can only get 3 of, I don't think the BSA should account for that much of the cost. Also why is the Magma the highest cost out of anything on the market, when the demand for the Trios should all be the same if the price was about the BSA

The odds of a successful summon increase with the number of complete trios you have on your scroll. While this could account for them being such a high price it doesn't explain why Magmas are so much more expensive. If a complete set is required surely they would all be about the same price?

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That could well be; I know I personally use Thunders FAR less than the other two, and I have four lineages with Magmas running as we speak..

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29 minutes ago, Seejey said:

Is it only my impression or is something missing from the market?

Zyumorphs perhaps?

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The middle column is 1 item shorter and many eggs I was following are in the column behind the 1 they were.

Is it just in my device?

Edited by Seejey

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Zyumorph is the answer, but not for the reason you may be thinking. Zyu's were a more recent release, one that we never thought would ever come. Another combo of dragons with "Special Powers" that when combined call forth an Almighty Dragon with Powers beyond Comprehension - Similar to the GoN but still distinct. We always thought the GoN was the most powerful ever. But instead we got a cool like One side of the Planet vs other Side of the Planet Ultimate Power Dragons.

 

Zyu's were very specifically created way after the days you hunted from "the Cave" when not only biomes were a thing, but people went out of their way to make dragons that had evolved (per environment, mana, evolution, adaption, whatever) that they originally started as a same species, but each branched out on its own. So the artists made it very clear that if you want to find a particular Zyu, you had to get it from the specific Biome and no other way, hence why the artists/creators did not allow it in the market. It wouldn't make sense. If there was a "market"  Zyu egg, it would break the lore, and make no sense. And lore and design matters a lot for dragons that can basically summon the dragon version of a demi-god.

 

So then we have the original Trio dragons, three very distinct breeds, but also only available in ONE biome each, an uncommon to rare dragon (and mind you, most other uncommon to very uncommon to rare dragons do appear in more than ONE biome), and while they could originally be caught from the Cave, they are also very elemental and very developed to live in ONE biome due to their elemental natures and features. So it is one of the few uncommons to rares (like some Zyus, some are easier to get, some are way harder in their CB Biome) that has only ONE biome from which you can find it.

 

If you look at other rares/uncommons like : Gold, Silvers, Strat Xenos, etc, they are *NOT* limited to only one biome and appear in many and possibly on all. There are also other dragons that were intended by their creators to be semi-uncommon, uncommon, very uncommon and ONLY appear in one biome, like some of the other ones you mentioned that may seem "overpriced" but due to not as much player demand for CB's, they are easier to catch and share and trade than what was intended for their design. So that marks up the price, not what the players want and can catch, but the design of how uncommon/rare and how many biomes, or only one biome in which it appears. Especially in the biome only cave release world, getting certain dragons from the "market" skips all the biome rules the creator intended.

 

This also has breeding implications. For people who might have enough rares, getting a "uncommon to rare dragon" that is from a Market aka Non-Biome frees them up from a lot of potential expectations the creator had when it is bred with other breeds that consider biomes when it comes to their offspring (like Coppers, Xenos, etc.). Not that everyone cares about this, or maybe even cares much, but there is a certain value in having a "market" dragon in that you aren't as tied to the biome percentage of the offspring as originally designed.

 

So now, we have in the market, the Trio Dragons, that just like the Zyu's only come from ONE biome, can summon a Demi-God Dragon of Supreme Unfathomable Power, was only intended to ever come from that one biome, but because they are old enough, TJ went ahead and put them in the market, but he did it at a much higher costs because... if you were a collector of ALL the things.... stuff like that might matter to you from a lore or other perspective. Normal players may not see that as super special enough to justify the price, but from a design and world and lore concept it makes perfect sense. So the Trios CAN be in the market, unlike the Zyu's, but its gonna cost you. And that makes sense to me for intended world balance. 

 

Just because we value certain dragon breeds differently than how they are supposed to work and live in the world of the biomes and DC doesn't mean DC is going to necessarily cater the market prices to OUR preferences. It seems more based on 1. World balance, design balance and lore balance and other reasons & restrictions and 2. People being very frustrated at not being able to catch a CB Gold or Silver, and having been in game for like 10 or more years, but CB Golds and Silvers do appear in all biomes (some biomes more than others, but still... a chance at all biomes), so it is easier to balance out lower the costs of those highly in demand dragons so people have an alternative way to get them (because they can freely appear anywhere, so being from "The Market" doesn't make them all that much more special. If they were more special it would be that you caught a CB in a Biome that it is less likely to appear in vs. other biomes, if you are that big into your collecting and details and such). And they have been around long enough that having them a bit lower priced so people can't afford them and constantly post threads demanding Golds and Silvers be made more common... TJ can keep the game as it was designed and people can still get something that is valuable in a way that is fair. 

 

But again, with Trios, it is different. people can get them easily enough if they want a CB version, however, getting a non specific biome version of a conduit to GOD basically is a really special rare thing. So to me that pricing make sense. There aren't riots on the boards demanding and people weeping irl (and I'm not making fun of that at all) because they can't catch a CB Ice, Magma or Thunder. You can get those. If they had the demand that Golds and Silvers did for CB's, maybe it would be something he would reconsider. But since it isn't, and their lore design is very specific, I am ok with the higher pricing. Make it something that those collectors or breeders for very special circumstances want THAT specific combo and are willing to pay for it. I believe that certain Dinos are also biome based, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

Now as for chickens, yes, they are in game as a joke, but there are a lot of people who have taken that joke and made it their own player based lore that they are really space explorers come to take over the world or what not and the eggs are "planted" in the biomes as a way to get people to collect them and infiltrate our world. Or people just love the joke factor. They really were just thrown in for fun. Making the chicken "cheap cheap" in the Market would sort of take away from some of that fun, and it makes sense to me that if a "fun' dragon is going to be in the market (aka a species that would be unlikely to ever be put in unless TJ found it really fun to do so), then.... well... that makes sense to me too to cost more. Because it is supposed to be a Dragon market. And in a "Dragon Only Market, a "chicken egg" is going to fetch an amazing price because it is a very "rare and different kind of dragon". Like Dinos.

 

yes that was a long essay, good for you if you got through it, but all of this makes sense to me. It isn't just straight supply and demand. TJ and the Admin and Creators, Artists, Admins and Event Helpers put a lot of time to make all of this fit together to make the world more fun. It would be sad to have them do all that work and not have the market respect that a little bit and completely contradict the stuff they've set up. So - hence why pricing doesn't follow normal real world economics. They follow dragon lore and world economics. Which TJ controls for various reasons keeping it all in balance, us pesky players just don't always want to play around with the way the world is DESIGNED to work. We just like what we like and want what we want, and every player on what they want can be very different from each other. Although there are certain things there is a lot of agreement upon, and those things, TJ does take into serious consideration. He never wants his players to be miserable for years due to some game mechanic if he can help it or justify it. Hope that helps.

 

 

And some artists, like with Xenos, are fine with them being sold in the Market with the market biome, even if biome specific like Xenos. However, we do have to respect that choice for those who do not as well. They do have good reason.

Edited by Natayah

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7 minutes ago, Natayah said:

Zyumorph is the answer, but not for the reason you may be thinking. Zyu's were a more recent release, one that we never thought would ever come. Another combo of dragons with "Special Powers" that when combined call forth an Almighty Dragon with Powers beyond Comprehension - Similar to the GoN but still distinct. We always thought the GoN was the most powerful ever. But instead we got a cool like One side of the Planet vs other Side of the Planet Ultimate Power Dragons.

 

Zyu's were very specifically created way after the days you hunted from "the Cave" when not only biomes were a thing, but people went out of their way to make dragons that had evolved (per environment, mana, evolution, adaption, whatever) that they originally started as a same species, but each branched out on its own. So the artists made it very clear that if you want to find a particular Zyu, you had to get it from the specific Biome and no other way, hence why the artists/creators did not allow it in the market. It wouldn't make sense. If there was a "market"  Zyu egg, it would break the lore, and make no sense. And lore and design matters a lot for dragons that can basically summon the dragon version of a demi-god.

 

So then we have the original Trio dragons, three very distinct breeds, but also only available in ONE biome each, an uncommon to rare dragon (and mind you, most other uncommon to very uncommon to rare dragons do appear in more than ONE biome), and while they could originally be caught from the Cave, they are also very elemental and very developed to live in ONE biome due to their elemental natures and features. So it is one of the few uncommons to rares (like some Zyus, some are easier to get, some are way harder in their CB Biome) that has only ONE biome from which you can find it.

 

If you look at other rares/uncommons like : Gold, Silvers, Strat Xenos, etc, they are *NOT* limited to only one biome and appear in many and possibly on all. There are also other dragons that were intended by their creators to be semi-uncommon, uncommon, very uncommon and ONLY appear in one biome, like some of the other ones you mentioned that may seem "overpriced" but due to not as much player demand for CB's, they are easier to catch and share and trade than what was intended for their design. So that marks up the price, not what the players want and can catch, but the design of how uncommon/rare and how many biomes, or only one biome in which it appears. Especially in the biome only cave release world, getting certain dragons from the "market" skips all the biome rules the creator intended.

 

This also has breeding implications. For people who might have enough rares, getting a "uncommon to rare dragon" that is from a Market aka Non-Biome frees them up from a lot of potential expectations the creator had when it is bred with other breeds that consider biomes when it comes to their offspring (like Coppers, Xenos, etc.). Not that everyone cares about this, or maybe even cares much, but there is a certain value in having a "market" dragon in that you aren't as tied to the biome percentage of the offspring as originally designed.

 

So now, we have in the market, the Trio Dragons, that just like the Zyu's only come from ONE biome, can summon a Demi-God Dragon of Supreme Unfathomable Power, was only intended to ever come from that one biome, but because they are old enough, TJ went ahead and put them in the market, but he did it at a much higher costs because... if you were a collector of ALL the things.... stuff like that might matter to you from a lore or other perspective. Normal players may not see that as super special enough to justify the price, but from a design and world and lore concept it makes perfect sense. So the Trios CAN be in the market, unlike the Zyu's, but its gonna cost you. And that makes sense to me for intended world balance. 

 

Just because we value certain dragon breeds differently than how they are supposed to work and live in the world of the biomes and DC doesn't mean DC is going to necessarily cater the market prices to OUR preferences. It seems more based on 1. World balance, design balance and lore balance and other reasons & restrictions and 2. People being very frustrated at not being able to catch a CB Gold or Silver, and having been in game for like 10 or more years, but CB Golds and Silvers do appear in all biomes (some biomes more than others, but still... a chance at all biomes), so it is easier to balance out lower the costs of those highly in demand dragons so people have an alternative way to get them (because they can freely appear anywhere, so being from "The Market" doesn't make them all that much more special. If they were more special it would be that you caught a CB in a Biome that it is less likely to appear in vs. other biomes, if you are that big into your collecting and details and such). And they have been around long enough that having them a bit lower priced so people can't afford them and constantly post threads demanding Golds and Silvers be made more common... TJ can keep the game as it was designed and people can still get something that is valuable in a way that is fair. 

 

But again, with Trios, it is different. people can get them easily enough if they want a CB version, however, getting a non specific biome version of a conduit to GOD basically is a really special rare thing. So to me that pricing make sense. There aren't riots on the boards demanding and people weeping irl (and I'm not making fun of that at all) because they can't catch a CB Ice, Magma or Thunder. You can get those. If they had the demand that Golds and Silvers did for CB's, maybe it would be something he would reconsider. But since it isn't, and their lore design is very specific, I am ok with the higher pricing. Make it something that those collectors or breeders for very special circumstances want THAT specific combo and are willing to pay for it. I believe that certain Dinos are also biome based, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

Now as for chickens, yes, they are in game as a joke, but there are a lot of people who have taken that joke and made it their own player based lore that they are really space explorers come to take over the world or what not and the eggs are "planted" in the biomes as a way to get people to collect them and infiltrate our world. Or people just love the joke factor. They really were just thrown in for fun. Making the chicken "cheap cheap" in the Market would sort of take away from some of that fun, and it makes sense to me that if a "fun' dragon is going to be in the market (aka a species that would be unlikely to ever be put in unless TJ found it really fun to do so), then.... well... that makes sense to me too to cost more. Because it is supposed to be a Dragon market. And in a "Dragon Only Market, a "chicken egg" is going to fetch an amazing price because it is a very "rare and different kind of dragon". Like Dinos.

 

yes that was a long essay, good for you if you got through it, but all of this makes sense to me. It isn't just straight supply and demand. TJ and the Admin and Creators, Artists, Admins and Event Helpers put a lot of time to make all of this fit together to make the world more fun. It would be sad to have them do all that work and not have the market respect that a little bit and completely contradict the stuff they've set up. So - hence why pricing doesn't follow normal real world economics. They follow dragon lore and world economics. Which TJ controls for various reasons keeping it all in balance, us pesky players just don't always want to play around with the way the world is DESIGNED to work. We just like what we like and want what we want, and every player on what they want can be very different from each other. Although there are certain things there is a lot of agreement upon, and those things, TJ does take into serious consideration. He never wants his players to be miserable for years due to some game mechanic if he can help it or justify it. Hope that helps.

 

 

And some artists, like with Xenos, are fine with them being sold in the Market with the market biome, even if biome specific like Xenos. However, we do have to respect that choice for those who do not as well. They do have good reason.

I want to pin this, but I do not have that capability.

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Just now, Shokomon said:

I want to pin this, but I do not have that capability.

I highly recommend taking my random ramblings and making a very small summary. I stated it way too verbose, and apologize, I am sleepy. But please feel free with my blessing to shorten it if that helps.

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I got it. They added the two new releases. I thought things were 1 column behind but they ate 2 ahead.

Sorry! 🙃

Edited by Seejey

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23 hours ago, Natayah said:

Zyu's were very specifically created way after the days you hunted from "the Cave" when not only biomes were a thing, but people went out of their way to make dragons that had evolved (per environment, mana, evolution, adaption, whatever) that they originally started as a same species, but each branched out on its own. So the artists made it very clear that if you want to find a particular Zyu, you had to get it from the specific Biome and no other way, hence why the artists/creators did not allow it in the market. It wouldn't make sense. If there was a "market"  Zyu egg, it would break the lore, and make no sense. And lore and design matters a lot for dragons that can basically summon the dragon version of a demi-god.

Do you have a source for this? Also I don't see why it would be lore-breaking for Zyus to be obtainable in the market as well as the cave. For all we know there is someone in-universe (or a whole group of people) grabbing eggs from the biomes to sell at the market

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15 hours ago, Chaos Rider said:

Do you have a source for this? Also I don't see why it would be lore-breaking for Zyus to be obtainable in the market as well as the cave. For all we know there is someone in-universe (or a whole group of people) grabbing eggs from the biomes to sell at the market

 

Yeah, while I admire your attempt at explaining @Natayah that's the first I've heard of it! Do you know the artists actually said those things? It's a great *theory* on why Zyus aren't currently available in the Market but I've seen nothing anywhere indicating that's actually true. 

 

It also still doesn't make *sense*, if Zyus wouldn't be in the Market because they can summon a 'dragon demi-god' than Staterae certainly shouldn't be in the Market either, or Trios since they can summon GoNs (the original 'demi-god' in DC!).

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I second this being the first I've heard of something like that with regards to Zyus. I believe there are four artists and also a concept creator for them, so I'm curious.

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