Market Feedback

[Varnayrah]

Ok, apart from that I'd like to see caps and prizes and all in action for a bit before they change:

I overall like the idea of a small bonus for actually raising caveblockers.

 

My first thought is something entirely different:

the non- tradeability of market-eggs. I'm aware it has been widely discussed and is because the danger of multiscrolling as far as I understand. My concern is this: currently, a CB Gold seems to be almost the only way to come by a 2. gen prize (if you don't own a CB one) or say a neglected if you don't have the time/luck/ability to create one or other really rare things as 2. gen from Spriter's alt. So, for those people who can't catch CB Golds from the cave (I can't for example) buying a Gold from the market could be their way to make a fair bet on those treasured rarities. I'd only like politely to ask why that was rejected? An please note I don't speak for myself as I luckily have CB Prizes and thus a good chance of trading for rare things. I'm not asking for a change, necessarily, only for the reason behind this. I'm not sure if multi-scrolling is a good enough reason?  And seeing that it takes 9 months to get a Gold that can't  throw trading so much out of balance, surely? So there might be more I'm not aware of?

Edited June 2, 2018 by Varnayrah

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't entirely agree with you anyway; I'm still running with KISS - but I would point out that I have 2 2 gen prizes; one was simply a gift out of the blue; for the other I traded for a dozen assorted fairly ordinary hatchies. Just saying, as I don't want to see the argument derailed by that idea. A 2 gen prize is NOT the only way to get a CB gold, nor vice versa..

 

But I too want to see this all running for a good while before ANYTHING is changed (except to see a way to get biome variants and the like in there.)

[Varnayrah]

Yes. I know that such things happen. But it is very much easier, I suppose, to trade thus (2. gen prize and gold) -  well, from my own example,  I almost always put up my spare 2. gens for free trade, no lists, no nothing. And I never ask exclusively for CB Golds or 2. gen Prizes in return.  But I also know that in 80% of the cases I go for the CB Gold(s) (and they got offered every time so far) just because I'll never catch them on my own. So my reasoning isn't completely unsound, I suppose. So... just out of curiosity, what is the reason for the non-tradeability of the market dragons?

[Zeditha]

I'd figured that without *some* incentive on catching/breeding (and catching over breeding, maybe) that not enough eggs would be created to satisfy the demand for low-time eggs to be hatched, but now I realise that people will grab the eggs to hatch them if there's an incentive to hatch and raise even if there isn't one to catch

 

So, perhaps a shard bonus of 1 on catching, 2 on hatching and 3 on raising, up to a limit of 100 over the two-week period that the breed is being given a bonus?

Obviously the exact amounts are subject to change, but I feel like that is a suitable limit; averages to half the current main limit, and over a longer period, but not too much longer.

 

I'm actually on the fence now on whether catching (or breeding) blockers should be given a shard bonus at all. Since they aren't likely to end up in the AP, it shouldn't matter.

I am thinking, though, of people who happen to own masses of that blocker mass-breeding, to keep their egg limit's worth and let the rest time down in the AP to be a wall later (and perhaps pick some more back up). It's something I can definitely see happen with bred eggs, but definitely not with CB eggs. Then again, chances are that the CB eggs of that breed will still be grabbed from the biomes by CB-lovers, so perhaps it isn't an issue.

 

I still definitely like the idea of some hatching reward, simply because almost nobody likes egg walls but few people despise hatchie walls.

[Imzadi]

Personally, I think we should leave it as it is, except for adding the currently missing variants.    I am also wholly opposed to anything that says I must raise any particular blocker breed.  I collect a minimum of 24 CBs of every breed possible (so yeah, I don't have 24  CB hollies etc).  I do it partly to help in a small way with blockers, but also for my personal lineage possibilities.  As it is, with new releases most months, breeding for holiday mates as I need, it is already difficult to finish my projects.  Until TJ09 gives me 12 egg slots,  😀 that will not change.  And I don't do rare lineages, they are almost entirely common breeds.  So I don't need any more obstacles like telling me I have to raise this or that.  That interferes with my playstyle.   If there is, at some point, a way to gain a few extra shards by doing normal things I do anyway, fine.  

[olympe]

14 minutes ago, Varnayrah said:

Yes. I know that such things happen. But it is very much easier, I suppose, to trade thus (2. gen prize and gold) -  well, from my own example,  I almost always put up my spare 2. gens for free trade, no lists, no nothing. And I never ask exclusively for CB Golds or 2. gen Prizes in return.  But I also know that in 80% of the cases I go for the CB Gold(s) (and they got offered every time so far) just because I'll never catch them on my own. So my reasoning isn't completely unsound, I suppose. So... just out of curiosity, what is the reason for the non-tradeability of the market dragons?

Multi-scrolling. Since there's a very limited cap for the shards we can earn, it would pay off immensely for someone to multi-scroll and feed all their market-bought CB golds to their main scroll. Thus, preventing that from happening is one big reason for market dragons being impossible to trade. Another thing is that the market is supposed to help out players get what they really want, and not trading fodder.

[Varnayrah]

Yes but having that trade fodder could help players get what they really want^^

 

But if multi scrolling is really such a big issue (which I honestly just don't know) than I understand.

 

edit/ well... on second thought, the possibilty to get CB Golds from the Market might induce me to trade my 2. gen Prizes for other things more often. So... that might help others to get those nonetheless. Only speaking for myself, of course.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Varnayrah

[Shadowdrake]

Only skimmed the previous posts but:

Having a bonus only for hatchies growing up makes it likely that people will let hatchies grow, then release them, where they *also* don't count for ratios (although I don't think we ever got a hard yes or no on whether frozens count, but I think they do since they're non-growing dragons). A hatching bonus is fair enough, if people are against grab/breed-and-toss. Hatchies are readily tradable, freezable, and more flexible to scroll lock, and the only hatchling wall that ever happened (Halloween) vanished in the span of minutes. I for one would be fine grabbing and freezing commons that others wouldn't grow, but I'm limited by my freeze limits there. And hatchlings that pop up in the AP are good for anyone still growing trophies, plus there's always someone who wants a dragon regardless of breed or lineage.

 

However, my argument for allowing breeding a bonus is that cave and breeding ratios only seem to be partly connected, where CB eggs can appear uncommon in cave but breed like a blocker for years (see: fells, monarchs, spirit wards, frills, anything that doesn't have variants or is ridiculously popular). I know breed walls are universally undesirable, but there's really no other way to even out breeding ratios other than, well, breeding them over and over. At least if there's multiple species that give bonuses they'll be spread out, both by species and by time/player breeding them. In fact, you can see this issue because the majority of prize lines are bred to a few specific breeds, where about %90 of anything else will get you endless fails.

 

5 hours ago, Zeditha said:

I'd like to ask a genuine question: has the AP ever (excluding after holiday walls) gone below insta-hatchies?

Once that I've seen, and it was right after this release (and the release of the market). It went a full day below ER and even uninfluenceable, but because of unique circumstances it's not really a good gauge for anything.

[Fuzzbucket]

I have actually seen it several times with a load of uninfluenceable stuff. Now I am collecting Aeons for these occasions - and it has happened often enough to make that worth it for me !

[Terces]

1 minute ago, Shadowdrake said:

Only skimmed the previous posts but:

Having a bonus only for hatchies growing up makes it likely that people will let hatchies grow, then release them, where they *also* don't count for ratios (although I don't think we ever got a hard yes or no on whether frozens count, but I think they do since they're non-growing dragons).

 

Are we certain that newly released wild dragons don't count towards the ratios? I was pretty sure that all grown (and frozen) dragons were taken into account until they reach about a year old, as the ratio system doesn't count dragons past a certain age. Whether the dragon is actually located shouldn't matter unless I'm not remembering correctly.

[Shadowdrake]

@TercesHonestly I haven't a clue anymore. This thread says wild dragons don't, but it's also 8 years old.  There are some "blocker-raising" threads that count frozens, and some that don't count, but those aren't official word for anything anyway. I haven't found any official word from TJ on the forum for either subject.

[olympe]

And we probably won't get confirmation one way or another. However, TJ is clever enough to implement such a bonus feature (if he decides to do so in the first place) in a way that makes it work.

[StormWizard212]

On the topic of rewarding people for catching common breeds, I would prefer to see the shards awarded for those commons growing up on a particular scroll. If you caught/bred that particular egg and then it grew up on your scroll, perhaps you could even get a bonus for raising it the whole way, rather than just trading for a hatchling. I'm not sure how many people would actually release them once they grew up. Some might, but I think a lot would be happy to get the extra +1 towards their next trophy and not be all that fussed. 

 

I would also prefer to see a generalised "all of these common breeds gain a commons bonus" rather than a specific breed being prioritised in a particular month. 

 

I wouldn't want to encourage people to grab eggs just to abandon a few hours later, because that seems pointless and counterproductive to just constantly grab things, abandon them, earn shards and buy dragons, rather than actually raising the ones already caught. But at the same time, I have absolutely no issue with low time eggs in the AP. Recently after the birthday release, it was great to be able to grab and quickly hatch eggs that I wouldn't have wanted taking up an egg slot for a couple of days otherwise. I think a lot of people were really happy to be able to grab things they wouldn't ordinarily. 

Edited June 3, 2018 by StormWizard212

[urusta]

A short genuine "Thank you" - I can now see the Dino eggs, even though I still can't see them in the Encyclopedia! Very pleasant.

I checked with a common breed the reverse, and there, even though I have the entry, I can't purchase the egg, because I did not unlock the egg sprite. However for these breeds it is not too hard to get the entry.

Retracting my thank you -
"Unlock egg in encyclopedia to purchase"
I did try for one dino, loading all eggs on 3 hatching sides giving me maybe 4-5 eggs of all dinos together. I will just plain forget about it and give up. I find the encyclopedia for a long time a big disappointment for not including the dragons already on the scroll.

Edited June 13, 2018 by urusta

[Trix7]

I feel like a goober, but I can't find it when I'm on my PC. On mobile it shows up in the menu, but it doesn't show up on the site for me.  I don't know why.

[Ruby Eyes]

Just now, Trix7 said:

I feel like a goober, but I can't find it when I'm on my PC. On mobile it shows up in the menu, but it doesn't show up on the site for me.  I don't know why.

Which skin are you using? If it's default, the market hides behind the number+shards symbol at the top.

[Trix7]

On 6/12/2018 at 10:20 AM, Ruby Eyes said:

Which skin are you using? If it's default, the market hides behind the number+shards symbol at the top.

Oh wow, I never even noticed that before!  Thank you so much!

[sorenna]

I'm collecting shards left and right and really excited about eventually being able to buy a Gold!  I need one more to even out my numbers.  :)   I love the public trade option, too, though the 'want' line could use a larger character limit or else a separate 'have' description space! 

 

It doesn't really make sense to me that biome-specific eggs are excluded from the market, maybe because I've been on DC since before we even had biomes.  Eggs that appear in one biome are still random and subject to the relative popularity of the other breeds there, and therefore are still subject to the random quirks of the Cave.

 

I'm especially disappointed that Coppers aren't featured in the market, since they're not one-biome alts.  But even for the one-biomers, surely there's a workaround!  Having the type offered change periodically (one week or month the Market offers Chrono Xenos, the next Gaias), or by time of day (12-4 AM the Market offers Alpine-specific eggs, 4-8 it offers Coast, 9-12 Desert, 12-4 Forest, 4-8 Jungle, and 8-12 Volcano), or even a randomizer (click on the rotating egg and whatever type you click on is the type you now have the chance to buy)...  there are so many options that wouldn't just exclude large numbers of wanted eggs from people ready to buy them!

[purplehaze]

I'm disappointed that Zyus are not available. They are the one regular dragon (besides Gold) that I still haven't met my goals for. I probably want to buy two Golds first anyway, though, so hopefully by then TJ will have figured out what he wants to do about them.

[HeatherMarie]

I'm honestly a little confused about why biome-specific breeds aren't included... I'm sure there must be some reason, but I can't really think of one... I mean, all Market-bought eggs show 'Market', not any biome, so why is there an issue with what biomes the breeds come from? Coppers I can maybe understand since their breeding mechanism partially depends on their biome, but Zyus seem to breed true so that explanation doesn't work for them.

[Ruby Eyes]

It may not be so much what they are breeding but rather which colour the egg from the Market itself is going to be.

[Shokomon]

I guess the issue might be that there is only one egg per breed in the Market. Like with Ridgewings and Dorsal, Purple is the dominant color, so you are always going to get purple, unless you try really hard to get the alts. However, for biome-specific ones, you have to figure out when people will get which egg. And biome-specific eggs aren't separate species so...

 

Though, I wonder why Fire Gems aren't in the market? They could just change every hour like they do with breeding/catching. Maybe that's more difficult to code? idk

[HeatherMarie]

The strange thing is, some biome-specific breeds *are* in the Market, although with only one type showing. There are purple Florets in the Market, for instance, but not Gold Florets, even though the gold ones are not alts and they are biome-specific. Also Two-Headed Lindwyrms, the purple version is there but not the green. While I get what @Shokomon is saying about the Dorsals and Ridgewings, it's commonly understood that the other colors with those are sort of alts, and not the main type. I wasn't aware that was the case with the Florets, or the two-headed lindwyrms (in fact, going by biome-drop frequency, it seems the gold Floret is probably more common then the purple...)

[Shokomon]

4 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

The strange thing is, some biome-specific breeds *are* in the Market, although with only one type showing. There are purple Florets in the Market, for instance, but not Gold Florets, even though the gold ones are not alts and they are biome-specific. Also Two-Headed Lindwyrms, the purple version is there but not the green. While I get what @Shokomon is saying about the Dorsals and Ridgewings, it's commonly understood that the other colors with those are sort of alts, and not the main type. I wasn't aware that was the case with the Florets, or the two-headed lindwyrms (in fact, going by biome-drop frequency, it seems the gold Floret is probably more common then the purple...)

That's true... Maybe the less popular version for those guys are the ones that are in the Market?

 

Maybe TJ just likes purple eggs? That's why the other biome-specific ones aren't in there. They don't have any purple alts, lol.

 

idk 

 

That was just my thoughts on it. 

 

[Chaos Rider]

On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 11:56 AM, Shokomon said:

Though, I wonder why Fire Gems aren't in the market? They could just change every hour like they do with breeding/catching. Maybe that's more difficult to code? idk

Lunar Heralds in the market change to match what's currently dropping so why can't Fire Gems?