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I would hope not, since they are well-intentioned.  I would hope somebody requesting no killing would not be reported also, and if they are, I doubt they would be banned.

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1 minute ago, 49ER said:

I would hope not, since they are well-intentioned.  I would hope somebody requesting no killing would not be reported also, and if they are, I doubt they would be banned.

its still not a want - I would mod it if it came my way.

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Neither are the other things.  It is just a request on a gift someone is giving.  Here is the frustration, these rules are not consistent, and while things that are deliberately deceptive are allowed, other very innocent things are being moded.

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where we are allowing haves in the want box - until there is some sort of solution a (have box I hope ) Nothing, but what you want in trade should be there.

 

If we did not permit people to specify a have in the want box, people would have to go and look anyway to see if its what they are looking for.  Anything else should not go in there. this includes most things like "to a newbie", "no killing", "Thank you bob", "you're egglocked" or or whatever.  its not what that box is there for.

 

Want: What do you want in return. "Dummy", "Offer", "CB Gold" , "Messy stairstep pink." this is what that box is there for. 

 

if the requirements are more detailed, then the forums should be used for it.

 

ultimately its not a gifting hub, its a trading hub.

 

 

Edited by Starscream

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I know this has been said before, and often, but how on earth are non-forum users supposed to know how to use the trading hub?

 

I do my best to check this thread frequently, and I stilllllll don't know all the ins and outs of what is allowed, and there's 42 pages to go through. TJ's rules (and solutions) cannot come soon enough.

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25 minutes ago, Toyo said:

I know this has been said before, and often, but how on earth are non-forum users supposed to know how to use the trading hub?

 

I do my best to check this thread frequently, and I stilllllll don't know all the ins and outs of what is allowed, and there's 42 pages to go through. TJ's rules (and solutions) cannot come soon enough.

+1 

 

This is often why I keep saying the Forums need to be a choice for trading instead of forcing people to visit anyway just to read the stinking rules for the actual Hub. 

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29 minutes ago, Toyo said:

I know this has been said before, and often, but how on earth are non-forum users supposed to know how to use the trading hub?

 

I do my best to check this thread frequently, and I stilllllll don't know all the ins and outs of what is allowed, and there's 42 pages to go through. TJ's rules (and solutions) cannot come soon enough.

 

Exactly. Very few people will visit this thread just to see rules they don't know exist aside from the limited "misuse". Rules should be detailed on the Trading Hub. 

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8 hours ago, 49ER said:

Starscream I fail to see how that is any different then saying you want someone with a low trophy or newbie to get it?  Those people are not being reported or banned are they?

 

7 hours ago, 49ER said:

I would hope not, since they are well-intentioned.  I would hope somebody requesting no killing would not be reported also, and if they are, I doubt they would be banned.

 

7 hours ago, Starscream said:

its still not a want - I would mod it if it came my way.

 

7 hours ago, 49ER said:

Neither are the other things.  It is just a request on a gift someone is giving.  Here is the frustration, these rules are not consistent, and while things that are deliberately deceptive are allowed, other very innocent things are being moded.

 

Exactly. No killing isn't what you WANT, it's what you would like not to happen to what you offer.

 

5 hours ago, Toyo said:

I know this has been said before, and often, but how on earth are non-forum users supposed to know how to use the trading hub?

 

I do my best to check this thread frequently, and I stilllllll don't know all the ins and outs of what is allowed, and there's 42 pages to go through. TJ's rules (and solutions) cannot come soon enough.

 

And TJ has said that it is taking discussion with the mods to make sure everything is covered. Until then, banning is being done with a light touch. But ANYONE should know that song lyrics and "Hi Bob" have nothing to do with what is given as OK for the want box. Nor does "no killing" or "newbies only." That says NOTHING about what you WANT to receive. For the first - you cannot say that and expect it to happen - and it isn't a want - and for the other - you can check a scroll if you feel like that.

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@Starscream Yes, it's not a gifting hub, but really, use of the hub for gifting is a thing which is now quite commonly used, and I don't see why you should be regulating altruistic activity which doesn't really cause many problems under a pretty inconsistently applied set of rules.

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Yes, because from what I can see, the only ones that will be modded are ones that say Please don't kill, but not the ones that say only for newbies or something to that effect.  There are a ton of things like that put in the trading hub all the time, so obviously people don't know better and have not read this thread, or maybe can't because they don't have a forum account.

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I would have thought "newbies only" was already moddable....

 

But I also think - let's not panic till the rules are put up. We know they are under construction.

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1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I would have thought "newbies only" was already moddable....

 

But I also think - let's not panic till the rules are put up. We know they are under construction.

Saying "wait for the rules" is not very valid when there are rules, but they are loosely specified and only available on the forums, and people are getting banned already. (permanently, too...)

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I believe that except for a couple of cases where the individuals knew PERFECTLY WELL what they were doing (see TJ's post somewhere), no bans thus far are permabans. If indeed those are.

 

ETA:

 

 

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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The people banned so far are perma-banned until TJ puts in the rules and changes the punishments retroactively.  Which seems to be taking a long time.  I think somebody had the right idea several pages back, to just shut down the trade hub until everything is settled on rules.  Right now it seems it is just getting randomly more and more restrictive and inconsistent.  

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2 minutes ago, 49ER said:

The people banned so far are perma-banned until TJ puts in the rules and changes the punishments retroactively.  Which seems to be taking a long time.  I think somebody had the right idea several pages back, to just shut down the trade hub until everything is settled on rules.  Right now it seems it is just getting randomly more and more restrictive and inconsistent.  

That was me because no one should be forced to go on the forums just to read the actual rules.of the hub

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And even if they do, they have to get to page 41 and 42 to see that "Oh by the way, any notes about gifting is illegal too.  In fact we prefer the hub not be used for gifting"

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People aren't going to read 42 pages to find out what the "rules" are. They aren't going to read updated, posted rules on the Hub itself. They barely read the Want box. This is evidenced by the trade I posted minutes ago asking specifically for certain EGGS and being offered a variety of things which were  either not the breeds specified or were hatchlings, or both.

 

They will look somewhat at what other people have put in the Want box and copy their example. So, you want people to know what not to put in that box? Don't put things you know aren't allowed, and don't try to push the box to do something it wasn't designed for. If you want to give via the hub, accept that you can't dictate what the receiver does with the egg and put something like "Want: dummy egg." then accept whatever first offer pops up. Trying to make rules for what people do with any egg once it's not on your scroll is never going to be able to be enforced so it should never be part of the official rules. The fact that most people respect such rules on the forum only means they respect people's preferences in the first place.

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14 hours ago, Toyo said:

I know this has been said before, and often, but how on earth are non-forum users supposed to know how to use the trading hub?

 

I do my best to check this thread frequently, and I stilllllll don't know all the ins and outs of what is allowed, and there's 42 pages to go through. TJ's rules (and solutions) cannot come soon enough.

 

It's a matter of people understanding things different ways. To me, the rules and ins-and-outs of the trading hub are perfectly clear on-site. You click the Trading link and it shows you most recent posted trades, you can filter with the drop-down box or the 'wants' box to see more specific trades, click on a trade to offer on it. To make your own trade you click the 'create a new Teleport' link, and the 'public trade' button which says exactly what it will do (listed in trading hub, others can see it without you directly sharing it). When you click the 'public trade' button a 'Want' box shows up, where it says to 'Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for'. So you enter a message stating what you want in the trade, and nothing else. Then you click 'Teleport'. 

 

That's all completely straight-forward to me. Things like song lyrics, communication with other users, rules on what people can do with the dragon, etc are *not* 'Wants', and thus not allowed in the 'Want' box. That's totally clear to me, without ever even looking at the forum. So, it really comes down to people understanding things differently. Some people don't realize that it's actually against the rules to put those things in the 'Want' box, but some of us do because we take the description at face-value (ie, help others understand what you want, that's *it*). So it's completely *possible* to use the Trading Hub, and use it without breaking any rules. I agree the rules should be clearer since obviously they aren't clear to many people, but not everyone sees it that way.

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I recently saw a trade with a want like this:

"Want: CB silver Lunar Herald with the code ((code removed - infinis)). No other offers." (I changed the code to something random, but I kept the caps, I think.) And, although that's very clearly a want, it's something that 99,9999% of the user base cannot offer, since it's something totally unique - if it even exists at all. To me, it looked more like a bragging thing than an actual try to trade something. (Btw, I checked for the code, and it either didn't exist or was fogged.)

 

Anyway, I reported said trade because the want is even less helpful than, "Want: really good offers. Probably going to keep the egg anyway." Which has been stated to be not within the unwritten rules.

Edited by Infinis

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@olympe While that is a *really* strange/weird/specific Want, it *is* a Want, and I'd think it'd technically be allowed. I mean, people put stuff like 'SA from such-and-such', which is pretty darn limiting and it something 99% of players aren't going to be able to offer, but it's still a 'Want'. I'd really like a mod's take on that, actually, because going by the 'Want box is for Wants and *nothing* else' rule-interpretation what you posted is completely within the rules, but I do agree that it's not a helpful/useful thing to post in the public trading hub.

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On 8/17/2018 at 10:51 AM, olympe said:

I recently saw a trade with a want like this:

"Want: CB silver Lunar Herald with the code ((code removed - infinis)). No other offers." (I changed the code to something random, but I kept the caps, I think.) And, although that's very clearly a want, it's something that 99,9999% of the user base cannot offer, since it's something totally unique - if it even exists at all. To me, it looked more like a bragging thing than an actual try to trade something. (Btw, I checked for the code, and it either didn't exist or was fogged.)

 

Anyway, I reported said trade because the want is even less helpful than, "Want: really good offers. Probably going to keep the egg anyway." Which has been stated to be not within the unwritten rules.

 

I've seen the trade you're talking about, and the code for that lunar herald does exist (it's been fogged though, probably because a lot of people were looking at it). I'm pretty sure they're offering what they're offering because they really want that code (probably means something special to them) and missed it in the biomes, and not because they're "bragging".

 

I mean, I put up rares asking for perfect codes (not asking for a specific code though). I actually do want these codes, although I hardly get any appropriate bites, and I'd hate for people to think that I'm "bragging" or whatever just because I want something that 99% of the user base cannot offer.

Edited by Infinis

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On 8/17/2018 at 10:51 AM, olympe said:

I recently saw a trade with a want like this:

"Want: CB silver Lunar Herald with the code ((code removed - infinis)). No other offers." (I changed the code to something random, but I kept the caps, I think.) And, although that's very clearly a want, it's something that 99,9999% of the user base cannot offer, since it's something totally unique - if it even exists at all. To me, it looked more like a bragging thing than an actual try to trade something. (Btw, I checked for the code, and it either didn't exist or was fogged.)

 

This to me skates too close to calling out another user... I'm still not quite sure why someone wanted that specific egg but it being public brings unwanted attention onto whoever owns the egg.

 

It may have been something the original owner auto-abandoned by accident, and someone else picked up, and I've been harassed over that in the past (as the person that picked it up and has no obligation to return it).

Edited by Infinis

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1 hour ago, Kaini said:

 

This to me skates too close to calling out another user... I'm still not quite sure why someone wanted that specific egg but it being public brings unwanted attention onto whoever owns the egg.

 

It may have been something the original owner auto-abandoned by accident, and someone else picked up, and I've been harassed over that in the past (as the person that picked it up and has no obligation to return it).

 

I'm pretty sure it's because they missed it in the biomes and really really really wanted that code because it means something to them. But I don't think they intended for the owner to receive unwanted attention, as they only put up the request because the owner of the egg doesn't have their scroll-name listed so there was no way to contact them to see if they were willing to part with the egg.

 

Edited to add: But it does raise a point on whether or not this is allowed. Every other week or so I've been putting up NDs (and potentially may put up 2G prizes in the future) asking for something like "a [specific names codes I'm looking for] code, any lineage" or "a CB perfect 5-character Star Wars / Marvel code". I'd hate for this to be considered against the rules for being "too specific of a want," because honestly these codes are the only 'rares' I want at this point in the game. And just to be clear, I'm not targeting anyone specific who has these codes or trying to bully them into giving me these codes, it's more of a "if you happen to have this on your scroll and are willing to part with it, here's something I can offer to you in exchange. No hard feelings if you want to keep the code for yourself, though".

Edited by Lucere

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I'd say as long as the request isn't impossible ("want: 10 number coded dragon") then I think it's fine to be very specific when asking for things.

 

I don't feel good about people putting full codes to growing dragons they don't own in the Want box though - often the egg/hatching gets checked out by so many curious people that it gets sick, and the new owner may be unaware of what's going on until it's too late. It's basically directing views and clicks to someone else's egg/hatching without their permission, which is getting dangerously close to viewbombing. If the new owner doesn't have their scroll name shown, then that says to me they don't want to be known or contacted and their choice should be respected.

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27 minutes ago, Terces said:

I'd say as long as the request isn't impossible ("want: 10 number coded dragon") then I think it's fine to be very specific when asking for things.

 

I don't feel good about people putting full codes to growing dragons they don't own in the Want box though - often the egg/hatching gets checked out by so many curious people that it gets sick, and the new owner may be unaware of what's going on until it's too late. It's basically directing views and clicks to someone else's egg/hatching without their permission, which is getting dangerously close to viewbombing. If the new owner doesn't have their scroll name shown, then that says to me they don't want to be known or contacted and their choice should be respected.

Very much this. I mean, it could be a way to viewbomb. Also, there's a reason we're not supposed to post codes of growing things we don't own on the forums, and I feel that the same logic applies to the trading hub - even if it's not stated anywhere yet. I also feel that there's a difference between "This code: AbcDE" and "any star wars related name code". Because the actual code could get an egg killed.

 

Imagine you got a CB gold egg, and various people who saw it pass in the biome posted trades asking for your gold with various offers (2nd gen SA, 2nd gen Prize (Western), 2nd gen Prize (Eastern), two CB silvers, one ND - all desirable categories, so lots of people will see these trades and check out your egg. It might die of sickness even if you don't put it in any hatcheries and have your scroll hidden.

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