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7 minutes ago, 49ER said:

I understand they want offers and don't really know what they want, I am just saying those are not any clearer than some of the things that are deemed to be not legal.  Personally I steer clear of those trades, unless it is something I REALLY want and I want to go to the bother of putting up things and hoping something sticks.

And that is all you need to do. I can fully understand the frustration of seeing something you really want and the person is iffy about trading in the first place. Especially if you're investing an egg into the trade that might also get you something else you want.

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Personally, I don't think it should be allowed for someone to state they don't know if they want to trade it.  Not that they should be banned, but maybe a warning saying don't put something up until you know if it is for trade or not.  My opinion, that's all.  I never offer on those...ever!

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1 minute ago, 49ER said:

Personally, I don't think it should be allowed for someone to state they don't know if they want to trade it.  Not that they should be banned, but maybe a warning saying don't put something up until you know if it is for trade or not.  My opinion, that's all.  I never offer on those...ever!

 

With that I absolutely agree. And nor do I offer on those.

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Can we have a "Clear" button to clear the filter selection? 

During holiday breeding season, possible to have another filter which only has the holiday breed?

If we can have a filter for mate's breed, that would be awesome! It will make trading holiday a lot less painful, as in less clicking to check mate.

 

When I have something to trade, I like to browse through as many existing trades in the hub as possible before putting a trade up.

Edited by teresadurfin

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58 minutes ago, teresadurfin said:

Can we have a "Clear" button to clear the filter selection? 

During holiday breeding season, possible to have another filter which only has the holiday breed?

If we can have a filter for mate's breed, that would be awesome! It will make trading holiday a lot less painful, as in less clicking to check mate.

 

When I have something to trade, I like to browse through as many existing trades in the hub as possible before putting a trade up.

 

I agree with a 'clear' button on the filter.... The drop-down list is very very long, because of so many different breeds, and currently if you select a breed and then click on the drop-down again it's still at that breed's section and you have to scroll all the way up to the top of the list to select 'Any' again.  (...) I'm not totally sure a filter for mate would be possible, or at least easily possible, but I can see how it would be helpful for holiday trading. 

 

Imo the whole kerflunkle about the Want-box rules comes down to a difference in how people interpret things. To *me*, and obviously to some others here in this thread, when the Want box says: 

Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for.

Warning: Misuse of this text may result in disciplinary action, such as loss of ability to create public trades.

 

.... It seems pretty clear that the Want box is for specific wants, specifically helping users in general to understand what you want, and *anything* else is misuse. So, asking for PMs is misuse because it doesn't fulfill the requirement of helping people understand what you want, same with communicating directly with another user. Vague things like 'offers' might be annoying to see but are completely within the rules because it *does* show what the person wants. They want offers. To me this is all completely clear, but it's obvious that it's not clear at all to many people and some rule-fleshing-out is needed. But I very much do *not* think that jumping all over TJ or the mods because people interpret the on-site Want box instructions differently is going to help in any way. It seems clear that the only people who have *actually* been banned are repeat offenders and people who most likely knew that what they were doing was wrong. There seems to be so much worry over omg banning!! but what TJ has said makes it sound like it's not actually some huge massive banning spree or anything.

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16 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

The drop-down list is very very long, because of so many different breeds, and currently if you select a breed and then click on the drop-down again it's still at that breed's section and you have to scroll all the way up to the top of the list to select 'Any' again.

 

I usually click on the breed dropdown and press the first letter of the breed I am looking for. Makes me scroll much less :D

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35 minutes ago, Naughtrish said:

 

I usually click on the breed dropdown and press the first letter of the breed I am looking for. Makes me scroll much less :D

 

Oh, I didn't know that would work, thanks!

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I often put an egg up for trade to see what offers I may get, even though I am perfectly happy to keep it and it will take a good offer for me to let it go. Basically, I think that is what those people are doing. It doesn't mean they have no intention at all of trading that egg -- it just means they won't trade it for just any old thing. At least that is the way I see it. I also have no problem with "offers" as a want. I have gotten offers of things I would never have thought to ask for when I have asked for "xxx or other offers".

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On 8/8/2018 at 5:45 AM, 49ER said:

A couple things needed to be added to this list of mentioned wishes.  

1-Being able to put if you do or not accept forum PM's, either on your profile to show up on your teleport link (this way, no violation of the Want box

2--A separate Have box (so no violation of the wants box)

3--A space for the offerer to add a note with their offer, such as "this hatchie is influenced/precog'd the gender you wanted" etc

4.  A way for someone to link forum wishlist or direct someone to it, and/or scroll group for ideas what to offer (as of now, it is considered a violation of Wants Box)

5--And most of all.................PAGINATION!  I am pretty sure everyone agrees with this one

 

I am sure there are others I have missed, but these are ones I could think of off the top that have been talked about.

 

On an aside, it seems it has been said absolutely that scroll to scroll communication cannot be implemented due to TJ's job conflict, but not clear if there would be conflict if you put forum contact information, or had in profile whether you accept Forum pm's, or provide contact information.

 

I would support ALL of what @49ER said here if they are at all possible..

I would say that the most pressing one is the need for pagination.

 

THAT said, however, IF, for work related reasons, @TJ09 isn't PERMITTED to make the forum and the site more connected ( AND some of the things that have been said have hinted in that way tho I am not sure if it has been stated specifically...) A Separate 'Have' Box, and possibly a box for trade related notes, ( Such as precogged male/female, for instance )  at the very least beyond that. I feel those three things would do MUCH to help our situation and improve the trade hub greatly!

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I would not support links of any kind. I REALLY can't see the need; at most I'd OK adding a group number.

HONESTLY, how many people are going to follow up an off-hub thing to check through it ? I know I won't.

 

But you can't put about PMs, as there can't be any kind of link to the forums.

 

It sounds from TJ's posts as if the want thing is going to be improved, not least to allow more about the "HAVE" stuff - and that's where "influenced male" should go.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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I understand why random links could have to be a no due to the potential for abuse, but I really wish links to Dragon Cave and the Dragon Cave Forum would become allowed. With the Want box expanded a bit to fit links and a short text with them.

That way, if you wanna show a lineage or a group - go ahead; if you have a very long wish list (not fitting into the Want box or just looking better in some kind of actual formatted post) - go ahead and include a link to the forum post instead. Tbh I was actually doing the latter before I learned it wasn't allowed, was working just fine and I miss it... XD Anyway, that exception from the rule would seem logical and 'just right', to me. And it can help a lot, I think.

Edited by Tears in Rain

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2 hours ago, purplehaze said:

I often put an egg up for trade to see what offers I may get, even though I am perfectly happy to keep it and it will take a good offer for me to let it go. Basically, I think that is what those people are doing. It doesn't mean they have no intention at all of trading that egg -- it just means they won't trade it for just any old thing. At least that is the way I see it. I also have no problem with "offers" as a want. I have gotten offers of things I would never have thought to ask for when I have asked for "xxx or other offers".

Don't get me wrong, I don't object to people asking for offers, was just pointing out that when staff says referencing a group etc does not actually specify what you want, then neither do some of these other things.

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@Fuzzbucket Without links, how exactly are we supposed to have remotely long wishlists? Yes, they could go on the forums, which is poorly optimized for trading and low-traffic (partly because of people avoiding 38-page arguments on somewhat obvious trading-related things), but that's not ideal.

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Or in the alternative, asking for someone to pm you or say look at my forum wishlist, my forum name is x, does not actually require putting in a link.

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6 minutes ago, 49ER said:

Don't get me wrong, I don't object to people asking for offers, was just pointing out that when staff says referencing a group etc does not actually specify what you want, then neither do some of these other things.

I want offers. To see if anyone offers something I like. I have no specific thought in mind about what I want for that particular egg.

 

I do understand what you are saying, though.

 

Edited by purplehaze

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1 minute ago, 49ER said:

Or in the alternative, asking for someone to pm you or say look at my forum wishlist, my forum name is x, does not actually require putting in a link.

That's against the rules too.

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Nobody expects anyone to accept bad offers or something they don't want in trade.  Maybe it is a great offer, but not something you want.  BUT that being said, if someone says up front they are not sure they want to trade and will probably keep, it keeps me and some others away.  Maybe it is an unfortunate verbage the way they put it, but that is how it comes across/

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1 minute ago, osmarks said:

That's against the rules too.

Which is why we are discussing it.

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3 minutes ago, 49ER said:

Which is why we are discussing it.

I'd consider PMing someone to ask what they want far more annoying than just checking a group or link.

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1 hour ago, osmarks said:

@Fuzzbucket Without links, how exactly are we supposed to have remotely long wishlists? Yes, they could go on the forums, which is poorly optimized for trading and low-traffic (partly because of people avoiding 38-page arguments on somewhat obvious trading-related things), but that's not ideal.

 

I know I'm not fuzz, but.... I think a lot of the perceived need to link to wishlists/etc could be alleviated, at least to some degree, by simply having more room in the Want box. Someone mentioned more room in the Want box with a collapsible type of thing, like we have here for spoilers, so the hub wouldn't get all messy and clogged with long text but you could click 'see more' or something to see the full text. If the Want box simply had more *room*, then a lot of people might be able to put more details about what they want and list more breeds they want etc etc. Of course if the only thing you want is a mate for dragons from such-and-such group, that's another issue, but again with a bigger Want box capacity it's possible you could actually list exactly what you want instead (example, '4th-gen Spitfire even gen not related to this dragon or that dragon, stairstep Tinsel Prize not related to this or that or this dragon' etc). (Also, I'm not sure what the '38-page arguments' has to do with forum trading? The arguments going in in this thread have absolutely nothing to do with forum trading and do not need to be read at all in order to participate in forum trading.)

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1 hour ago, osmarks said:

@Fuzzbucket Without links, how exactly are we supposed to have remotely long wishlists? Yes, they could go on the forums, which is poorly optimized for trading and low-traffic (partly because of people avoiding 38-page arguments on somewhat obvious trading-related things), but that's not ideal.

 

Limit your ask. Though TJ could say it's OK to refer to "group 2794" without a LINK to it. But as I have said before - honestly, how many people are going to trawl a whole group to see what is being asked for ? Not to mention the times that I have bred exactly what was listed in a forum profile only to be told "Oh sorry - I got that one last week..."

 

25 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

I know I'm not fuzz, but.... I think a lot of the perceived need to link to wishlists/etc could be alleviated, at least to some degree, by simply having more room in the Want box. Someone mentioned more room in the Want box with a collapsible type of thing, like we have here for spoilers, so the hub wouldn't get all messy and clogged with long text but you could click 'see more' or something to see the full text. If the Want box simply had more *room*, then a lot of people might be able to put more details about what they want and list more breeds they want etc etc. Of course if the only thing you want is a mate for dragons from such-and-such group, that's another issue, but again with a bigger Want box capacity it's possible you could actually list exactly what you want instead (example, '4th-gen Spitfire even gen not related to this dragon or that dragon, stairstep Tinsel Prize not related to this or that or this dragon' etc). (Also, I'm not sure what the '38-page arguments' has to do with forum trading? The arguments going in in this thread have absolutely nothing to do with forum trading and do not need to be read at all in order to participate in forum trading.)

 

What she said. Though I still think the most specific wants will get the best trades. Bit for the record - complicated forum trades work magnificently well. The hub is much tighter.

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2 hours ago, osmarks said:

I'd consider PMing someone to ask what they want far more annoying than just checking a group or link.

Same. If I have a link to a wish list, I can check it out as soon as I see it, and do so discreetly. And if the wish list is too long, or badly organized, I can simply not bother looking through all of it.

But PMing? Nope. First, I PM the person and *wait* for their answer, which is probably a - you guessed it - wish list. XD So, now I look at the wish list after telling the person I'm interested, only to discover that I don't want to bother with that particular list. Too bad I'll be sure to get asked about it. Or I can't produce anything on that wish list, like spriter's alt lines or CB metals. Once again, I'd feel pressured to explain why I'm still not going to offer. And if I do it with some unfortunate wording ("I really, really want to trade for your egg, but don't have anything on your list. Would you maybe be willing to accept X/Y/Z, please?"), I could get reported for begging/"harrassment".

 

Thanks, but no thanks. Not my piece of cake. (Yes, I do tend to overthink things.)

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35 minutes ago, olympe said:

But PMing? Nope. First, I PM the person and *wait* for their answer,

 

This, actually. So many people don't check their messages for days on end. I see a trade on the hub; I want it, I breed what it asks for and hope for the best.

I see one asking me to check a list - unless it's a 2gen shimmer or a CB gold - I don't look. I have a life.

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15 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

This, actually. So many people don't check their messages for days on end. I see a trade on the hub; I want it, I breed what it asks for and hope for the best.

I see one asking me to check a list - unless it's a 2gen shimmer or a CB gold - I don't look. I have a life.

 

Heh, I *don't* have a life and I feel the same. Most of the time there are no trades that I'm *that* desperate for that I would spend a half hour going through someone's 100-dragon-long group just to see if I *might* possibly be able to breed something in that long group. Same with PMing, I'm just not going to bother with a trade that only asks for PMs, that could take *days* to even get a response (and as olympe said, there's a good chance the response would simply be a link to a wishlist anyways!). 

 

That's actually one of the things I think is currently better about forum trading, there is plenty of room to be as specific as you want, there is really no *need* to link to a group or to ask for PMs, you can detail exactly what you want in your trade post (my posts are often relatively detailed/long), which is a good thing both for the trader and the offerer. The more specific you are about what you want, the better chance you have of getting exactly that, and the less chance you have of getting random unwanted offers from people who aren't going to bother combing through a long linked group.

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That is same when I offer prizes...If somebody requests one from a line they don't already have, and then has a loooong spreadsheet of all the prizes they have I am not gonna go through it.  I just offer what I have to offer, and leave it up to the person trading to know whether or not they have that line.

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