Suggestions regarding DR

[olympe]

2 hours ago, Infinis said:

 

i swear at one point we had a kind of credit guideline thing...redlines do get credit if they're major AND are used in the sprite. people can also refuse credit if they wish.

 

minor changes, edits, and redlines don't need credit; flatcolors don't, either. recolors and color tweaks don't need formal credit. small shading and linework edits don't need credits. realistically, if you did less than 10% of the work, you probably don't need formal credit. special thanks is absolutely fine.

This, so much. And I say this as someone who occasionally got credit for small things and asked to have it deleted. I don't think it would have been beneficial for any concept to have an extra "credited artist" that would need to become an in-caver in case of release. (Not that any of those things ever got released in the first place...)

[Shokomon]

I just discovered this topic and I'd like to put in my vote for hiding the CR section. I'll miss being able to look at the completeds but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for more releases.

 

I also approve of the idea of an inactive thread section, though I worry for some threads (I know I have one) that are locked not just do to the 2 thread limit, but also time commitment.

 

Just speaking for myself, I've got at least 10 requests that I've got my hands actively in, not counting the two threads that I'm actually in charge of. Some of them are stalled for various reasons, and some of them it's just because I can't do them all right now and/or I lack motivation.

My commitment in the DR waxes and wanes with how busy I am in real life, and like now, it's busy, so I've let some things flounder. I know some of the inactive threads, especially one that was mine, I'd like to get to are locked because they just can't be worked on right now, not with everything else. 

Would those threads get shifted over to the inactive threads and get deleted, even though the OP or artists would like to work on them when they had more time? Because I'm seeing some discussion about open threads that haven't been bumped, but not locked ones who are closed not because they are dead, but because their OP/artists are too busy. 

[HeatherMarie]

@Shokomon I'm not sure how feasible this is, but after reading your post... If all inactive-for-(amount of time) threads got moved to a separate section, but not deleted right away, artists who are still active and want to continue the thread in the future could PM a mod to say so. Those threads would not get deleted, and would just hang out in the 'inactive' section until they could be worked on again. But threads where the OP and/or spriters have simply left, or are no longer interested in continuing it, maybe put a time limit of some amount of months and if no one checks in to say they are still interested in the concept, it gets deleted. There will still be a slight chance that a thread would get deleted when someone still wanted to work on it, but if no one communicates that within a certain number of months that chance is fairly low, I think.

[SkyWolf25]

7 hours ago, Infinis said:

 

i swear at one point we had a kind of credit guideline thing...redlines do get credit if they're major AND are used in the sprite. people can also refuse credit if they wish.

 

minor changes, edits, and redlines don't need credit; flatcolors don't, either. recolors and color tweaks don't need formal credit. small shading and linework edits don't need credits. realistically, if you did less than 10% of the work, you probably don't need formal credit. special thanks is absolutely fine.

 

This is the current guideline:

Quote

- Art needs to be labeled with proper credits.

--- Things that earn credit include but may not be limited to: sketching, lining, and shading.

--- Things that do not earn credit but may not be limited to: ideas, concrit, descriptions, circling an issue spot, and transparency.

--- Always err on the side of giving someone credit. If they do not want it, they will let you know.

I think it should be updated to mention that redlines and minor changes don't get credit. 'u' 'May not be limited to' doesn't really tell you what to do for ambiguous things.

 

-

Summary of my current suggestions(including ideas from others that I agree with):

1. Hide CR. Only in-cavers/mods/TJ can see it. (or only mods/TJ)

2. Update The Ultimate Dragon Requests Guide to specify that redlines, recolors, flatcolors, and other minor edits don't need credit.

3. Add an Inactive Requests section. Concepts that have not been active for a year or longer are moved to IR, where the OP or artist can take their concept info and artwork to re-suggest the concept when DR is open again. (also works with a limit to the number of active DR threads)

[Kiramay]

Agreed with an inactive section. Clear up the page count in requests section by adding an archive area. Posts that haven't gotten attention or any notable progress outside bumping (perhaps 6 months or even more strict than that) get moved over there. A decent enough timeframe to allow for smaller lags/delays and crosses into a reasonable territory of abandoned. This doesn't outright delete them so they can be brought back later if desired, but keeps them from adding on dead pages to the section.

 

Could uniform the general process by providing an easy to copy template for keep first posts of requests pretty uniform and easy for mods to read. This also makes it easy for other users to see what is happening if the top of the first post follows a structured format.

 

As far as the completed requests, the only concern I would have for it being hidden is duplicate or very similar dragons being made.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Kiramay

[Jazeki]

TJ doesn't seem to have a problem with similar dragon submissions and an artist or mod would probably catch a duplicate long before it ever neared completion. 

[Kiramay]

49 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

TJ doesn't seem to have a problem with similar dragon submissions and an artist or mod would probably catch a duplicate long before it ever neared completion. 

Oh, true enough! I have no further concerns then (other than it's fun to look at the cool completed stuff, but obviously that's not constructive and not a valid argument).

[Guillotine]

It is fun to look at completed stuff, but given the choice between that and them getting released more quickly I'm willing to give up the former.
 

[Eggy0]

Ditto for the above post. I like looking at completed requests, but if helping to bring the DR section back to being open sooner means hiding completed requests (and creating an inactive requests section for old DRs collecting dust and clogging the active section for no good reason), I'm all for it. I have had dragon ideas brewing in my head and I find it a bummer that I can't even present them to the public because the section had been closed for so long, not to mention I had a hiatus that I tried to come back from last year or so only to find I did so just after the closure, prompting my hiatus to resume as doing DRs are one of my favorite things...

[TJ09]

I'm actually not a big fan of an inactive section. Is there a huge issue with just clearing out the threads to the proverbial trash? Mods can still recover removed things in either world, while having them be visible to all doesn't seem to provide much value.

[Whirlaway]

If it could clear out the section and mods can retrieve the threads (with proper notice before), why not?

[SkyWolf25]

20 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

I'm actually not a big fan of an inactive section. Is there a huge issue with just clearing out the threads to the proverbial trash? Mods can still recover removed things in either world, while having them be visible to all doesn't seem to provide much value.

My issue was that there were some people who came back after a few years to continue their concepts, but had to redo everything(descriptions, related artwork, etc) from scratch because their threads had been deleted and the mods couldn't retrieve them. If mods can retrieve the info, then I have no problems with the old threads not being visible.

[StormWizard212]

1 hour ago, SkyWolf25 said:

My issue was that there were some people who came back after a few years to continue their concepts, but had to redo everything(descriptions, related artwork, etc) from scratch because their threads had been deleted and the mods couldn't retrieve them. If mods can retrieve the info, then I have no problems with the old threads not being visible.

 

Adding onto this, perhaps it would be useful for a quick PM to be sent to the person whose thread is deleted so that if/when they come back they are aware that it has been deleted but can be retrieved. That would save people from assuming that their thread is gone for good/can't be retrieved and starting again unnecessarily.  

[Whirlaway]

If notifications for the removal of these retrievable threads would be manageable, I believe that this would be good for the DR.

[HeatherMarie]

Not sure if messaging everyone who's thread is deleted is feasible, when I mentioned PMing people to see if they were still active it seemed like that would be too much work. But if mods can retrieve deleted threads, and anyone who comes back to see their thread gone can simply PM a mod to restore it, that seems like it would be fine.

[olympe]

9 hours ago, TJ09 said:

I'm actually not a big fan of an inactive section. Is there a huge issue with just clearing out the threads to the proverbial trash? Mods can still recover removed things in either world, while having them be visible to all doesn't seem to provide much value.

There's one other reason why a visible inactive section might be a good thing. Many DR threads don't go anywhere because there's no artist willing or able to work on them. Old, dusty concepts could not only attract someone's attention who might actually be able to help, but also inspire people for their own concepts.

 

For example, I have this old "green gold dragon" concept sitting around, but don't think it will ever be finished due to lack of artist(s). And while I've resigned myself to that, someone else with better artsy skills might get inspired to do their own green gold dragon concept after looking at old concepts.

[Infinis]

i'm not a fan of an inactive section either, to be honest. i'm not on board with the idea of using them to inspire others, and since many of these requests are already inactive - some of them for years, with not just the artists but the OP gone - it's not really worth leaving them public. if an OP, or even an artist, comes back and wants to work on it, they can just PM a mod and have it retrieved...i've done this before, so it's not a huge issue to bring it back.

[Shokomon]

4 hours ago, Infinis said:

i'm not a fan of an inactive section either, to be honest. i'm not on board with the idea of using them to inspire others, and since many of these requests are already inactive - some of them for years, with not just the artists but the OP gone - it's not really worth leaving them public. if an OP, or even an artist, comes back and wants to work on it, they can just PM a mod and have it retrieved...i've done this before, so it's not a huge issue to bring it back.

How are we to know if a thread is just hidden or deleted entirely? 

Unless there is a place stating that old threads of over X months get moved to the invisible inactive section and deleted after X months or that they can request inactive threads back, how would people know they can still retrieve the threads? 

I feel like most people would assume that the invisible thread would be gone for good. 

[Whirlaway]

That's why I mentioned that, prior to any removal, there should be proper notice before. It could become a pinned topic in DRs, which seems like a fairly simple solution to that issue. Tell people that inactive threads were removed and, if you want to work on your thread again, than you need to PM a mod. Simple.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Whirlaway

[HeatherMarie]

Honestly, if I came back after a long break and found a topic of mine had disappeared, my first thought would be to contact a mod to see why and if there was any way to retrieve it, not just 'oh, guess it's gone forever'. I mean, if it's a concept you were passionate about, changes are you'll do *something* to see if it's truly gone forever or if it can be retrieved somehow. I doubt many people would get excited about possibly reviving an old concept, see that it's not there, and just immediately abandon all hope. However, if it would be possible to have it in a sticky or something, that inactive threads get cleared out but can be retrieved if the OP/spriters involved contact a mod, that would make things easier I guess. 

 

I do agree with @Infinis in that I don't think keeping inactive threads around to 'inspire others' is a good argument. In fact I'd actually see that as a possible negative thing, if new users are 'inspired' by other concepts to try their hand at similar concepts there could be issues with concepts being too similar to both get released or even issues with outright plagiarism. I would think it would be better to encourage people to come up with their own unique concepts, rather then trying to develop something inspired by a concept already in the works. As for attracting attention of someone who might be able to help with the inactive concept, if that hasn't happened in the 3-4 years the concept has been inactive in the DR I'd think there would be very little chance it would happen once the concepts are moved to an inactive section.

[Infinis]

2 hours ago, Shokomon said:

How are we to know if a thread is just hidden or deleted entirely? 

Unless there is a place stating that old threads of over X months get moved to the invisible inactive section and deleted after X months or that they can request inactive threads back, how would people know they can still retrieve the threads? 

I feel like most people would assume that the invisible thread would be gone for good. 

you kinda answered your own question there: put a note in a sticky. (:

 

as for personalized notifications to each OP, i'm not on board with that either - not just because that's a boatload of people to message, but because it doesn't feel like there's a point to it. we can put the notice in a sticky - along with the note that threads can be retrieved upon PM to a mod - as a sectionwide announcement. 

[Shokomon]

4 minutes ago, Infinis said:

you kinda answered your own question there: put a note in a sticky. 🙂

 

as for personalized notifications to each OP, i'm not on board with that either - not just because that's a boatload of people to message, but because it doesn't feel like there's a point to it. we can put the notice in a sticky - along with the note that threads can be retrieved upon PM to a mod - as a sectionwide announcement. 

Like the message the pops up at the top of a forum if you are new member? Or do you mean something else? 

[Infinis]

we can make a sticky with that information, is what i meant.

 

[SkyWolf25]

10 minutes ago, Infinis said:

you kinda answered your own question there: put a note in a sticky. 🙂

 

as for personalized notifications to each OP, i'm not on board with that either - not just because that's a boatload of people to message, but because it doesn't feel like there's a point to it. we can put the notice in a sticky - along with the note that threads can be retrieved upon PM to a mod - as a sectionwide announcement. 

This I'm good with.

[Whirlaway]

18 minutes ago, Infinis said:

you kinda answered your own question there: put a note in a sticky. 🙂

 

as for personalized notifications to each OP, i'm not on board with that either - not just because that's a boatload of people to message, but because it doesn't feel like there's a point to it. we can put the notice in a sticky - along with the note that threads can be retrieved upon PM to a mod - as a sectionwide announcement. 

 

Yeah, that was what I was thinking as a solution. A pinned topic explaining the removal and how to retrieve a thread if you have interest in it should be simple to do.