Suggestions regarding DR

[Infinis]

6 hours ago, Dalek Raptor said:

You also have to factor in the people who are on mobile (like me) that have no other choice but to ask for help. Anyone can draw? Yes, with practice. Anyone can sprite? Debatable. I only say this because there's no real mobile app that will actually help you out with this (unless someone makes one). 

and that's completely fine. but my point was that everyone who can, should. 

 

a total topics cap sounds great, actually, and i feel two pages worth of topics is more than enough - that's fifty topics already (honestly I would prefer it to be lower, but the current second page has stuff that was active as recently as end of March, so fifty is workable) - with at least half those being cleared out (aka finished) before more are allowed (or, at least, not less than 1/3 cleared).

5 hours ago, Skellybones said:

So yeah, while we may not have that many artists around to work on concepts, I think getting new concepts with new conceptors would benefit the section. It'll draw in newer players who can develop their own skills and learn how the section works.

but that's what was going on before the close, and it didn't work out that way. :c it just floods the section with more and more concepts.

 

i would like to see new people get involved with the section, and i understand wanting to create one's own idea, but i feel that at this time there are plenty of concepts to go around in which they can develop skills, concepts that have been around for years and desperately need the help. 

[olympe]

13 hours ago, Sextonator said:

While I would absolutely love if DR opened again, I don't agree with clearing it out, at least not yet. I still have at least one concept that's locked and hasn't been posted in in a year, because of the two topic limit, so it would unfortunately be on the chopping block when I have every intention of working on it, I just have too many threads open. Unless a happy medium can be reached, I'm going to be against a reopening/cleaning, sorry.

That's exactly why I suggested to hide inactive topics instead of deleting them. Once you've finished up your concept, you're free to ask for it to be re-opened (if my suggestion gets implemented just the way it is).

 

13 hours ago, 11th said:

Also, PM'ing everyone sounds simple enough, but here's the problem:

There are 387 threads in DR right now. 264 unique thread creators. There's no easy way to count contributors.

It's much easier for people to PM staff as they need things unlocked than it is for the two active DR mods (LadyLyzar and Infinis) to go through all of that.

 

All that said, it might not hurt to create a third subforum for locked or inactive old CL threads, so that they would still be public without inflating the active thread list.

Very true, and I really like this suggestion.

 

11 hours ago, 11th said:

I feel the need to stress something:

DR is not just closed because of the number of threads. There's no magic number that needs to be reached for it to reopen, and cleaning out all of the old CL threads doesn't guarantee that it will.

 

DR is closed because there aren't enough people to do all of the work. If it had been allowed to stay open after the merge, it's entirely possible that there could be another 40-50 threads on top of that 387, but with the same amount of active artists as we have now. That's because most people submit a concept and then get stuck waiting for artists because they don't draw or sprite. And if those artists leave, those OPs have to start over because the artists need to be around to give editing permission and to sign the artist agreement. That's why so many open threads with active OPs are still inactive.

 

Only eleven* threads have been finished since the merge. Eleven threads completed in a year. Eight of those have overlapping artists.

If you open DR with the same submission guidelines as before, then, sure, you'll get a bunch of active threads. But the majority of them will never be finished. Until that happens less, simply dumping a lot of old inactive threads to create new eventually-probably-going-to-be-inactive threads isn't going to do any good.

While your point is valid and true that it's not just the number of threads that's a problem, I see a problem with motivation. If someone gets really invested in their own concept, there's a chance they will try to work on the sprite itself. Which will either move the concept along (and give us a new artist in the process) or might generate intereste by an accomplished artist to help out/finish the thing. Either way, a new thread that generates interest definitely has better chances of getting completed than a years-old thread where both OP and artist(s) have vanished/lost interest, and nobody else is even allowed to bump. Even new artists can't just jump in because they may not have permission by the OP or original artist to work on the concept.

 

10 hours ago, Infinis said:

My suggestion is for more people to start picking up pixel art, or at the very least sketching, especially OPs - anyone passionate about saving the section, really, and making it feasible again. It's unlikely that mass amounts of help will come from outside, so the best thing imo is to find it within the section. And we need that to go hand in hand with people staying in DR for the long run, even after release onsite.

Been there, tried that. I'm far from being an artist, but actually (with no experience whatsoever) tried a sketch for one of my own (very inactive) concepts, which got me some interest - and one completed adult sprite, before the artist left. Personally, I'm comfortable with lining, very minor line edits and flatcolors. I've tried, and failed, to shade in an acceptable way more than once, and had to admit defeat. 😕 I just... don't get light sources. Period.

 

At the very least, I'd like to see DR opened for new topics with almost-finished adult sprites.

[Infinis]

1 minute ago, olympe said:

Been there, tried that. I'm far from being an artist, but actually (with no experience whatsoever) tried a sketch for one of my own (very inactive) concepts, which got me some interest - and one completed adult sprite, before the artist left. Personally, I'm comfortable with lining, very minor line edits and flatcolors. I've tried, and failed, to shade in an acceptable way more than once, and had to admit defeat. 😕 I just... don't get light sources. Period.

that's...actually very helpful. 

 

you don't have to know how to shade. but if more people can learn linework, that is fantastic and i cannot stress that enough. people don't know how much easier it is on me when linework is already done. that's like half the job. i love to work on requests where part of the work is done already. even a sketch makes things easier.

 

6 minutes ago, olympe said:

At the very least, I'd like to see DR opened for new topics with almost-finished adult sprites.

i feel like this is an acceptable compromise at this time.

[Alrexwolf]

I know it's a lot of work, and a lot of pressure on one person, but I personally feel like TJ should step in and delete any breeds he just flat out doesn't want or don't work conceptually for DC at this time. Give a small list of reasons for the disqualifications, PM them to the artist working on the concept and the OP, and set up a queue for new topics.

 

50 requests that work for DC, 50 of TJ's favorites, stay. 2 pages.

Requests that TJ has no interest in at all are DQ'd and hidden. 

Requests that TJ could see with edits are added "next" to the queue in reverse order of when they were created (aka, a concept for a Leaf Dragon TJ feels could work conceptually but their current design is too close to an in-cave dragon already present. The concept was created in 2011, so it goes before a similarly viable-but-needs-tweaking concept from 2013).

 

The queue is set up on a list somewhere, for the help mods. It doesn't need to be accessible to the public. Creators/artists are notified that their concept/a concept they are working on is in the queue. If an artist does not wish to continue the work, the OP has 6 months to respond to the notification to keep their concept in the queue. After 6 months, the concept is DQ'd and hidden. If an artist does want to continue work, they can continue the concept on their own when it is up with or without the OP's response. If the artist wants to continue, but the OP wants to DQ the concept, the concept will be DQ'd, but the artist may re-purpose their sprite as a "Tier 1" New Concept.

 

After the queue of older concepts is decided, Tier 1 New Concepts will be added to the queue, in order of last posted update (if an artist worked on theirs in May of 2018, for example, they become first in the queue). 

 

Every time the two pages becomes one page, the queue is pulled from in order and those topics are brought to the second page of DR. After the Tier 1 New Concepts hit the 2nd page, users may submit Tier 2 New Concepts, which are totally from-scratch new ideas that have never been in DR before. DQ'd requests by TJ are not allowed for re-submission even  as Tier 2 New Concepts unless heavily redesigned/rewritten. This Tier 2 queue should be limited to 50 concepts - that way, when 25 go to DR, 25 new ones are chosen. TJ goes through the request queue of 50 and pushes the next 25 forward, based on the ones he likes the most. Any of the 50 Tier 2 Concepts that TJ thinks are unsuitable are rejected and more space will be added to the next queue application. 

 

Is it complicated? Yes. Is it a lot of work for TJ? Yes. But, to be blunt, why would creators and artists be wasting their time and hopes on concepts that were accepted and worked hard on only for the concept/design to just not be in TJ's favor? I think TJ could really "thin the herd," so to speak. 

 

It's kind of a not nice situation... and kind of an unkind solution. But the truth is I'm sure there are a lot of concepts in DR that TJ wouldn't like, period. I'm sure there are also a lot of concepts in DR that are just completely dead, artist and creator both gone. I feel like if TJ had more of a hand, a lot more DR would get released faster. It would encourage artists, I feel, because they know the concept they're working on has TJ's favor to start with. I feel it will also help with crits, because we can stop with the endless "lore," crits that go around in circles and never go anywhere when we don't even know what TJ deems acceptable, and stick strictly to criticism on the anatomy and art. 

[Moonlight_Eevee]

2 hours ago, Alrexwolf said:

I know it's a lot of work, and a lot of pressure on one person, but I personally feel like TJ should step in and delete any breeds he just flat out doesn't want or don't work conceptually for DC at this time. Give a small list of reasons for the disqualifications, PM them to the artist working on the concept and the OP, and set up a queue for new topics.

 

50 requests that work for DC, 50 of TJ's favorites, stay. 2 pages.

Requests that TJ has no interest in at all are DQ'd and hidden. 

Requests that TJ could see with edits are added "next" to the queue in reverse order of when they were created (aka, a concept for a Leaf Dragon TJ feels could work conceptually but their current design is too close to an in-cave dragon already present. The concept was created in 2011, so it goes before a similarly viable-but-needs-tweaking concept from 2013).

 

The queue is set up on a list somewhere, for the help mods. It doesn't need to be accessible to the public. Creators/artists are notified that their concept/a concept they are working on is in the queue. If an artist does not wish to continue the work, the OP has 6 months to respond to the notification to keep their concept in the queue. After 6 months, the concept is DQ'd and hidden. If an artist does want to continue work, they can continue the concept on their own when it is up with or without the OP's response. If the artist wants to continue, but the OP wants to DQ the concept, the concept will be DQ'd, but the artist may re-purpose their sprite as a "Tier 1" New Concept.

 

After the queue of older concepts is decided, Tier 1 New Concepts will be added to the queue, in order of last posted update (if an artist worked on theirs in May of 2018, for example, they become first in the queue). 

 

Every time the two pages becomes one page, the queue is pulled from in order and those topics are brought to the second page of DR. After the Tier 1 New Concepts hit the 2nd page, users may submit Tier 2 New Concepts, which are totally from-scratch new ideas that have never been in DR before. DQ'd requests by TJ are not allowed for re-submission even  as Tier 2 New Concepts unless heavily redesigned/rewritten. This Tier 2 queue should be limited to 50 concepts - that way, when 25 go to DR, 25 new ones are chosen. TJ goes through the request queue of 50 and pushes the next 25 forward, based on the ones he likes the most. Any of the 50 Tier 2 Concepts that TJ thinks are unsuitable are rejected and more space will be added to the next queue application. 

 

Is it complicated? Yes. Is it a lot of work for TJ? Yes. But, to be blunt, why would creators and artists be wasting their time and hopes on concepts that were accepted and worked hard on only for the concept/design to just not be in TJ's favor? I think TJ could really "thin the herd," so to speak. 

 

It's kind of a not nice situation... and kind of an unkind solution. But the truth is I'm sure there are a lot of concepts in DR that TJ wouldn't like, period. I'm sure there are also a lot of concepts in DR that are just completely dead, artist and creator both gone. I feel like if TJ had more of a hand, a lot more DR would get released faster. It would encourage artists, I feel, because they know the concept they're working on has TJ's favor to start with. I feel it will also help with crits, because we can stop with the endless "lore," crits that go around in circles and never go anywhere when we don't even know what TJ deems acceptable, and stick strictly to criticism on the anatomy and art. 

I once asked LadyLyzar because the Paraffin Dragons were stuck in an endless crit loop and I feared it would be a matter of what the artists like Vs what everyone else liked again so we have to resketching the adult. She questioned (and is even making me question it as well) what exactly does the dragon have to be like to be up to "Dragon Cave Standards". I feel like if TJ can do what you had suggested as well as provide actual information a particular dragon has to be to fit into the cave. 

[Whirlaway]

I wonder too. There is a notable variance in quality (to be blunt) with concepts released in-cave even last year. There are some recently released breeds that, in my opinion, lack in quality yet some of the high quality dragons in the public DR/CR never get released. I am very curious to see what he defines as quality, especially considering how varied in quality releases in-cave can be...

[Fuzzbucket]

One thing that always bothers me. There are SO MANY requests. It's all very well to say let's open it up because so many people have ideas. BUT - if even a 100th of the number of people here put up two threads.... and we have well over a hundred completed ones - which would take a minimum of 30 months to release, if we assume three new ones each month - and that's not allowing for holiday months when we don't get a release. And DR will fill up again in no time flat.

 

To be blunt - DR is bringing too many dragons into play than can ever be released. We need a solution to that, as well.

[The Dragoness]

To be bluntly honest, I think the only real solution here is for TJ to step in. From what I've seen, concepts from the Completed Section rarely make it to the cave (Freckleds are the only breed I know of since I started playing). Why let all of those people waste time on an unrealistic/unfit dragon? Like Alrexeolf said, maybe TJ should just turn away concepts that he thinks are flawed from the start. If that's too much work (understandably), I would really like to see him weigh in more during the concepting/spriting process, rather than after the dragon has been submitted for completion. Only TJ can say for sure what makes a dragon worthy of being in-cave. 

 

But, in general, I think DR needs to be divided up. There are very few active spriters and many are juggling several projects. Spriting can take years of practice to master. On the other hand, just about anyone can create a concept. That leaves us with hundreds of concepts are very few people who can create art/offer sprite critique from an experienced view. It would be nice to see the section divided into subforums like Concepting > Spriting > Final Crits > Completed. Yes, we could still have concepts sitting in the middle two subforums for a while, but at least the concepts would be solid.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

11 minutes ago, The Dragoness said:

To be bluntly honest, I think the only real solution here is for TJ to step in. From what I've seen, concepts from the Completed Section rarely make it to the cave (Freckleds are the only breed I know of since I started playing). Why let all of those people waste time on an unrealistic/unfit dragon? Like Alrexeolf said, maybe TJ should just turn away concepts that he thinks are flawed from the start. If that's too much work (understandably), I would really like to see him weigh in more during the concepting/spriting process, rather than after the dragon has been submitted for completion. Only TJ can say for sure what makes a dragon worthy of being in-cave. 

 

But, in general, I think DR needs to be divided up. There are very few active spriters and many are juggling several projects. Spriting can take years of practice to master. On the other hand, just about anyone can create a concept. That leaves us with hundreds of concepts are very few people who can create art/offer sprite critique from an experienced view. It would be nice to see the section divided into subforums like Concepting > Spriting > Final Crits > Completed. Yes, we could still have concepts sitting in the middle two subforums for a while, but at least the concepts would be solid.

I've actually seen (and others can back this up) other dragons from the public CL make it into the cave. Freckleds are the most recent ones, but (Ma)Carina Dragons were another dragon under a different name called Galaxy smt. But let's not forget that TJ also pulls from the private Dragon Request board that only the artists (and maybe some other people) can see. 

 

It seems that TJ will 9/10 favour the people already in-cave over the newer people which isn't completely fair. I think as more and more public DR requests get moved to the CL, he should take one public and one private and release them together so that way you have an in-cave artist and/or a new person getting their art released into the cave

[Whirlaway]

Yeah, I’d like more public Dragon Requests released. Very few have ever been released in-cave in favor of those made in the (in-cave) artist only DR.

[olympe]

Personally, I don't think this kind of quota will work. Not even with a bunch of high-quality requests available. An artist may have gone AWOL without handing in the artist's argreement beforehand. Or there might be something about the concept TJ doesn't like. Maybe, like has happened before, there's reason to believe the sprites are still visible to the public at large, despite keeping them hidden x months before the release is part of the agreement. Or... a number of other things, really. Plus, neither of us has any idea how many completed concepts there are in the artists' section.

 

ETA: I could name a number of breeds that come from the public list. Antarean, Azure Glacewing, Blusang Lindwyrm, BBW (from what I've been told), Carina, Copper (my avatar was the original completed male; only later were alts introduced), Duotone, Falconiform... And there's so many concepts where I'm not sure any more whether they were from the public CL or not.  Really, it's quite a few.

Edited May 2, 2018 by olympe

[Alrexwolf]

I am obviously not an artist; I don't wish to speak over them, and I don't come from the perspective as an artist myself... but DC would be so discouraging for art from my point of view. Our in-cave artists are there for a reason; they are skilled spriters. However, that doesn't mean those outside of that circle can't be equally as good... but their concepts have less chance of seeing the cave just because of a huge slough of private works by artists TJ already prefers. 

 

I feel like every month should have a private concept and public concept release - together. What encouragement is there for a new spriter or even an advanced spriter to pour hours of work and dedication into a piece that, after it goes to the CL and is cleared out, might never be seen again? I have a feeling that there would be many more active spriters here if we had a set standard by TJ and all the concepts were pre-approved by TJ. 

 

Honestly, seeing Freckleds make it in-cave made me so happy. A new artist - but not one unknown to TJ or the spriters, at least as an event artist. I have never seen a dragon from a completely new spriter who was NOT an event spriter prior be released... has that ever actually happened? I don't mean to degrade Kennon's achievement with that question, either. Kennon deserves to be in-cave; Freckleds are amazing and were worked very hard on. Just asking if anyone who was "out of the loop," of DC spriters/TJ had ever truly had a release. 

 

Yet, if that is true, look at all the event spriters who have yet to make it in-cave. Do totally new spriters even stand a chance, no matter what their skill level? How does TJ decide what goes out and what comes first, or last? Honestly I feel nothing but TJ hand-picking concepts he wants to see in DC will make all the work of DR's worth it. There's no guarantee, even if a concept is finished, that TJ will even accept it - that happened to Sylvan (Then: Elven) Dragons. 

 

 It seems like it's not a lack of artists wanting to help... there are many wonderful, talented spriters out there and on here. It's a lack of appreciation and content release for the artist that makes it frustrating to see. Hundreds of hours of work on dragons that fit into DC perfectly, and there they sit. We don't know how long the queue is. We don't know what has yet to be released, which isn't a problem, but there could literally be hundreds of dragons that "need," to be released before any of the concepts currently in CL or DR have a chance of being released... so why keep dragging us all along on a string? 

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I think dividing current DRs is the first step before anything else. A Dead/Inactive subsection of DR vs an Alive one. Maybe the Inactive one is even hidden. Any thread that is dead but artists/OP are still around, those people should be messaged and asked if they would like to continue, and if so, the thread can be moved to the Alive section - if not, the post deleted. That way the DR would be less clogged to start with.

 

I also bring back my point of the cap - that without a certain amount of things moved to Completed, newer suggestions should be limited, and even then only limited to a certain amount being accepted at a time, with no more being accepted until a certain amount is moved on to Completed.

 

This probably won't be such a good idea, but perhaps with new requests, a requirement to them being accepted could be that they need to have some form of art attempt. As simple as a sketch, no matter how basic, displaying the pose OP wants or how specific features of the dragon need to look. This would speed up the process of needing sketches (because I won't lie, I'm less tempted to sketch for a dragon unless there's at least a concept sketch to reference) and would encourage people to try to create their own art for their project, thus working on the lack-of-artists problem. [Obviously there are problems with this - some people may not have a way to upload their images or whatever, but even something like an MS Paint drawing would suffice. This is just me brainstorming for how to get around the artist problems]

 

And of course, I really agree that more input from TJ would be beneficial. With one of my concepts, the Sylvans ('d by Alrexwolf), TJ moved them from Completed back to DR and explained exactly why they weren't suitable for release. It really helped. As much as in-caver crits are necessary, ultimately they are redundant if TJ has problems with the sprite that he isn't voicing. My project got the a-okay from enough in-cavers that it was deemed completed, but TJ's problems with them said otherwise. I would love if TJ gave more non-in-cavers a place in DC - there are so many who deserve it!! - and then it would mean more in-caver crits could go around and help more concepts flourish to DC standards. But for that, we need more input from TJ about exactly what DC's standards are. Paraffins, for example...

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Both reasons above are why some artists have probably moved on. Why come back and try to work on a dragon that never made it into the cave in the first place? Not all artists have the same style of sketching and spriting. I've been glad that the two new dragons didn't have the same style as usual. 

[Guillotine]

TJ direly needs to give actual input on the DR. It's probably one of the biggest problems with the section, that nobody actually knows what qualifies as being "cave-worthy" and that is a massive roadblock to getting artists to work on concepts. I know it's a major reason why I've stopped trying, and (while not strictly DR related) it's part of why I'm just sitting on an old holiday idea that only needs a single sprite redone to be complete. Without knowing what makes TJ reject things (because he rejects silently, for the unaware; both of my breed submissions (one privately submitted and one a public thread) I had to figure out on my own that they were rejected), there's no point in trying.
 

[Moonlight_Eevee]

7 minutes ago, Guillotine said:

TJ direly needs to give actual input on the DR. It's probably one of the biggest problems with the section, that nobody actually knows what qualifies as being "cave-worthy" and that is a massive roadblock to getting artists to work on concepts. I know it's a major reason why I've stopped trying, and (while not strictly DR related) it's part of why I'm just sitting on an old holiday idea that only needs a single sprite redone to be complete. Without knowing what makes TJ reject things (because he rejects silently, for the unaware; both of my breed submissions (one privately submitted and one a public thread) I had to figure out on my own that they were rejected), there's no point in trying.
 

Well that's interesting. I did notice that he made some effort pointing out what was wrong on the first few dragons that actually made it to the CL (Grey's dragons for example) but all of a sudden he did a 180 and clammed up again? 

[HeatherMarie]

12 hours ago, Skellybones said:

As for reopening DRs, I think it would help bring in a new wave of people. I think new users are a bit put off by the amount of old concepts in their with seasoned artists and users working away at them. 

 

I feel the need to comment on this because it's a very, very good point and it's got me thinking. It's great to say that more people should try to learn how to sprite, or at least learn enough to help with lines or give some sort of critique.... But that is a *very* daunting idea when every single thread currently in DR has been being worked on for at least a year. Many have been worked on for several years already, and have experienced spriters either actually spriting or doing lines or whatever. Even if I was able to get up the nerve to attempt lines or help with any sort of spriting, I don't think I'd feel comfortable just jumping into a years-old concept that other more experienced people have already worked on.

 

The issue of TJ's silence with most DR concepts is also something to think about. I definitely feel like that's a very discouraging thing, and I'd bet good money it's one of the reasons some people abandon their DRs. It's very frustrating to spend so much time and effort on something so involved as a dragon request, and have absolutely no clue at all if it's even something TJ would consider releasing. Mods and in-cave spriters can help push the request in a direction that maybe suits the site a little more, but how many people are really interested in spending *years* on a concept that may be completely worthless because it's not something TJ would ever put in-cave? Of course I wouldn't expect TJ to be constantly active in every single DR thread, but a few words on whether a concept even stands a chance would probably help a lot.

[Whirlaway]

This all goes back to my thoughts on why even try? It is very rare/unlikely for public Dragon Requests to get released in-cave (and thus the possible new spriters), so why put in the effort for something that will likely never see release in-cave... 

 

I just hope that the Freckled Dragon release will be only the first of many public DRs released this year.

[Infinis]

public DRs have a waiting period before they can be released. even if a request was accepted right this second, it wouldn't even see the light of the cave for at least two months. 

 

i'd actually like to see the entire completed subforum hidden from public view - that way the waiting period can start immediately, even before a request is accepted, so that release can be accelerated. if it's going to wait an indeterminate period of time for acceptance/rejection, it may as well do it in hiding where it can get the wait period over with ahead of time.

 

i know people like to see the completed stuff but i don't feel like it's doing any good to leave them there and then wait a protracted extra period after acceptance simply because it was public for so long.

 

as far as crits and standards go, if you look at the majority of the released since mid 2015 (at least) there are at least two commonalities to be found: a strong grasp of anatomy and polished shading. anatomy in that the dragon was drawn as if it were real, with realistic articulations, ranges of movement, posing, etc. polished shading in that it doesn't look unfinished - flaws minimal, light sourcing well done, etc. i also look if your textures are done well, if you have done any.

 

this is the standard i hold people to when i crit them. i don't know if it helps anyone, but from my view the released dragons seem to have been converging on a consistency for some time, so i hold people up to that. 

[Sextonator]

Hiding cr is an excellent idea. I vote for that.

[HeatherMarie]

I totally support the completed section being hidden. Infinis makes a very good point as to why that would be helpful, but also it might help the overall perception of DR in general? People get very discouraged when they see dragons that have been 'completed' for so long but still aren't in-cave, and also get discouraged when a dragon is released that maybe wasn't from the public DR area at all. If the completed section is hidden it might ease some of the stress/expectations.

[Fuzzbucket]

I still cannot see how we can begin to believe that every completed dragon from DR will EVER be released. So why are so many allowed to be created, leading to this kind of thread ?

 

From a post further up.:
 

Quote

 

I feel like every month should have a private concept and public concept release - together.

 

 

That's a whole 10 from  CR every year. While easily three times that (and probably more) will show up in DR. The idea that we can EVER catch up is - to be blunt - laughable.

 

And yes to hiding CR.

 

But I do agree with this:

 

Quote

This probably won't be such a good idea, but perhaps with new requests, a requirement to them being accepted could be that they need to have some form of art attempt. As simple as a sketch, no matter how basic, displaying the pose OP wants or how specific features of the dragon need to look. This would speed up the process of needing sketches (because I won't lie, I'm less tempted to sketch for a dragon unless there's at least a concept sketch to reference) and would encourage people to try to create their own art for their project, thus working on the lack-of-artists problem. [Obviously there are problems with this - some people may not have a way to upload their images or whatever, but even something like an MS Paint drawing would suffice. This is just me brainstorming for how to get around the artist problems]

 

It might cut down on the number of vague concepts.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[Ruby Eyes]

10 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

[Obviously there are problems with this - some people may not have a way to upload their images or whatever, but even something like an MS Paint drawing would suffice. This is just me brainstorming for how to get around the artist problems]

Not a problem anymore with the new forum software, since you can now attach image files to your posts (which uploads them directly to the forum).

[11th]

41 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Not a problem anymore with the new forum software, since you can now attach image files to your posts (which uploads them directly to the forum).

To add to this: It's possible to copy and paste and image from an art program into a post without even saving a file.

Edited May 3, 2018 by 11th

[olympe]

15 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

I think dividing current DRs is the first step before anything else. A Dead/Inactive subsection of DR vs an Alive one. Maybe the Inactive one is even hidden. Any thread that is dead but artists/OP are still around, those people should be messaged and asked if they would like to continue, and if so, the thread can be moved to the Alive section - if not, the post deleted. That way the DR would be less clogged to start with.

This seems like a good idea. Because, as with so many other things, it's pretty hard right now to actually find a concept that nobody has called dibs on. And yet, many of those people who did are either inactive, not interested in the concept any more or whatever. The same goes for the OPs.

 

15 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

I also bring back my point of the cap - that without a certain amount of things moved to Completed, newer suggestions should be limited, and even then only limited to a certain amount being accepted at a time, with no more being accepted until a certain amount is moved on to Completed.

As feasible as this sounds at first glance, (and I'm definitely not mixing my metaphors, nope), it just doesn't work that way. You can't force a concept to be completed, no matter what. The concept might not work out (see dracanthrope dragon), there might be strife between the artist and the OP, the OP might be too set in their ways yet unable to communicate their idea in an appropriate way, artist and/or OP might go inactive before completion and so on. So, even with only 50 concepts in DR, some will never see the light of day. So, if a concept doesn't seem like it's going to be able to make it to completed in a certain amount of time, we'd need a procedure to weed it out in order to make space for new concepts with better chances - at the very least.

 

15 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

And of course, I really agree that more input from TJ would be beneficial. With one of my concepts, the Sylvans ('d by Alrexwolf), TJ moved them from Completed back to DR and explained exactly why they weren't suitable for release. It really helped. As much as in-caver crits are necessary, ultimately they are redundant if TJ has problems with the sprite that he isn't voicing. My project got the a-okay from enough in-cavers that it was deemed completed, but TJ's problems with them said otherwise. I would love if TJ gave more non-in-cavers a place in DC - there are so many who deserve it!! - and then it would mean more in-caver crits could go around and help more concepts flourish to DC standards. But for that, we need more input from TJ about exactly what DC's standards are. Paraffins, for example...

Very much this. Since it's TJ who makes all the decision, as DC is solely TJ's baby, we absolutely need his input. At the very least, once the first round of crit from in-cave spriters has been adressed.

 

15 hours ago, Alrexwolf said:

Honestly, seeing Freckleds make it in-cave made me so happy. A new artist - but not one unknown to TJ or the spriters, at least as an event artist. I have never seen a dragon from a completely new spriter who was NOT an event spriter prior be released... has that ever actually happened? I don't mean to degrade Kennon's achievement with that question, either. Kennon deserves to be in-cave; Freckleds are amazing and were worked very hard on. Just asking if anyone who was "out of the loop," of DC spriters/TJ had ever truly had a release. 

And guess why that is? Because most event stuff is small - egg-sized, most of the time. Which is way easier done than a full adult dragon sprite. So, going from event spriter to in-cave artist is a rather logical step, even if it's not a requirement.