Link to List of Refused Mates on Dragon View Page

[perzephone]

I think it would be informational and useful if, on the view page for each dragon, there was a link that listed all rejected mates - similar to the Children list or 'View Bitten' list for Vampires.

 

As a breeder, I find it a little frustrating that the only way I can see what pairings have resulted in a refusal from the actual breeding page because it's incomplete. The breeding page only shows dragons that are available for breeding at the current time.

 

(Note to the Mods: I seem to have bad luck with making suggestions that have already been suggested, so if this has been suggested, please feel free to delete/merge this).

[HeatherMarie]

This seems a little redundant to me. While it's true that the breeding page only shows refused dragons that are currently available for breeding, I don't really see that as a huge issue because, well, is there some important reason you need to know a certain dragon has refused if they can't even breed right then anyways? The children list and bitten list is different, imo, because that's actually the only place you can see that information (while that information does link to it's own individual pages, there is no other place to access those pages unless you manually type in the address...). I guess I'm not against the suggestion, I just don't see any need for it when there is a list already, it's just on the breeding page. (However, I would *very* much like a way to filter the breeding page, because I'm very aware it can get unwieldy when you have tons of dragons.)

[Cinspawn]

While I wouldn't mind a list of refused pairs, I'd rather not have it on the dragons view page. To me it feels like a mistake, something that won't ever happen, and it'll just be a blemish on the dragons page forever. 

 

 

Not a perfect analogy but kind of as if you'd list jobs that rejected you on your resumé.  

[Whirlaway]

For me, I think the way the refused mechanic shows is okay, at least for me. Yes, you have to scroll down a ways, but once a dragon is refused there should't be too much concern over which ones refused which dragon, especially since we can never breed the pair again.

 

But that's just me. 

[perzephone]

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

This seems a little redundant to me. While it's true that the breeding page only shows refused dragons that are currently available for breeding, I don't really see that as a huge issue because, well, is there some important reason you need to know a certain dragon has refused if they can't even breed right then anyways?

 

Some players (including myself) do plan future lineages and make plans for breeding their dragons beyond just during the moment when they're breeding them, and I honestly don't see anything wrong with having more information available on each dragon.

 

@Cinspawn The reason for having the link on the dragon's View page is because that's the main informational page for each dragon. It isn't an action, and the 'Breed' action page is the list of potential mates, not really a place to view statistical information or as a jump-off point for other pages beyond what's functionally necessary.

[HeatherMarie]

52 minutes ago, Cinspawn said:

While I wouldn't mind a list of refused pairs, I'd rather not have it on the dragons view page. To me it feels like a mistake, something that won't ever happen, and it'll just be a blemish on the dragons page forever. 

 

 

Not a perfect analogy but kind of as if you'd list jobs that rejected you on your resumé.  

 

I kind of agree with this... We don't have a list of failed breedings anywhere (or failed kills, or failed abandons....) so why a list of refusals? I'm just not sure I see the benefit of implementing a new specific list of what amounts to forever-failures, especially since none of the other action-fails are listed.

 

I'm aware that many breeders plan lineages in advance and such, but I would think the majority of breeders who are planning lineages with certain breeds would actually record refusals somewhere themselves. And it's not like the information simply isn't available, if it's important to find out every dragon that Dragon A has ever refused with, you can just check it's breeding page a few different times to be sure you note the ones that were on cooldown the first time you checked. If this *were* implemented, I would prefer it not to be on the dragon's view page.... Maybe it could be a little link with the 'breed' action, like 'Breed (name) with a female, potentially producing eggs.' and then a link right there like 'See dragons (name) cannot breed with' or whatever. 

[perzephone]

4 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 If this *were* implemented, I would prefer it not to be on the dragon's view page.... Maybe it could be a little link with the 'breed' action, like 'Breed (name) with a female, potentially producing eggs.' and then a link right there like 'See dragons (name) cannot breed with' or whatever. 

 

I explained the reasoning for the link being on the view page to Cinspawn in the last post - but mainly because the View page is the information for that dragon, it's not an action, and the breeding action page is the list of breedable dragons, not the logical place for a jump-off link.

[Fuzzbucket]

Actually one thing I would like to see is a way to check even when the dragon is on CD. I don't know where to put it, but when I am planning after a refusal, it's a week before I can see which others in the line I can't switch out... That's irritating.

[StormWizard212]

@perzephone I hear what you're saying about the dragon's page being the most logical place for this information to be listed, but I'm really against having this information on the dragon's breed page. I'm definitely of the same mindset as @Cinspawn - I would see this as a blemish and it would be a constant disappointment to see it on the page, to be honest. I change the mates for many of my dragons and don't commit to the same ones outside of specific checkers, but I think this would be especially frustrating for those who do have just one, consistent mate for each dragon. I don't think they'd want to be reminded of a failed sort of non-mate, if that makes sense. For my checkers who do have just one mate, I get really frustrated if I accidentally breed them with someone else and I end up with one dragon offspring from a different mate, and the list of refusals reminds me a bit of that.

 

Another reason I don't want this information on a dragon's view page is because I don't really want that page cluttered with more links than it already has. It might just be a personal preference, but I'd prefer as few links as possible, so unless something is completely necessary, I'd prefer not to have it there. In this case, I don't personally see much value in a list of refusals when that information can already be accessed from the breed page if the other dragon isn't on breeding cool down. 

 

If the issue is that you want to be able to see the refusals outside of the refused mate's breeding window, then a solution I'd prefer to see is to list all refused mates at the bottom of the breed list, even if the other dragon is currently on cool down. I think that's a much simpler solution to this problem that doesn't have any real downsides but provides that extra information some people might want. I think that would be a really good alternative to consider.

Edited May 1, 2018 by StormWizard212

[Cinspawn]

10 minutes ago, StormWizard212 said:

@perzephone If the issue is that you want to be able to see the refusals outside of the refused mate's breeding window, then a solution I'd prefer to see is to list all refused mates at the bottom of the breed list, even if the other dragon is currently on cool down. I think that's a much simpler solution to this problem that doesn't have any real downsides but provides that extra information some people might want. I think that would be a really good alternative to consider.

Either that, or provide a link on the breed page to a list of refusing mates for that dragon, similar to what @HeatherMariesaid. 

[Ruby Eyes]

Wouldn't actually make a whole lot of sense to display only refused mates, especially if the reason is just that some of the refused mates are on breeding cooldown right now.

Sometimes, I also cannot see a dragon's proper mate because that one is on cooldown from another breeding. When no offspring from previous breedings exist, it's impossible to tell if my dragon has a working mate or not - the Action Log wouldn't tell, and my memory is holey.

 

Soooo ... I can imagine a link in the Actions page saying "view additional breeding information about this dragon/drake/name-of-creature" (the "viewing" would be the action here).

The linked page would then display, selected by a filter drop-down box:

• Mates from the past (independent of their current cooldown)
  • this could even show a "breed" button if neither the viewed dragon nor its mate is on breeding cooldown (and thus avoid loading the looooong list of half your scroll for breeding)
    
  • with number of offspring for each mate if existing? And possibly with link to offspring with said mate *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*.

• Refused mates (independent of their current cooldown) - this could show a link to the mate's lineage so you could check what you'd need to re-breed.

• Offspring (this would basically be the progeny page, but it kind of makes sense to link to it from here)

[HeatherMarie]

Oohh I really like @Ruby Eyes idea! That actually makes a lot more sense then simply having a list of refused mates, and only refused mates, on the view page. It's a very good point that it wouldn't really make much sense to list *only* refused mates.... If there is going to be some sort of record of breeding attempts, it should be *all* attempted mates, not just refusals. If a pair has never actually produced offspring it's definitely hard to find that mate, especially if it's on cooldown. I would definitely support an actual comprehensive record of breeding attempts, showing previous mates regardless of offspring, as well as refused mates.

[perzephone]

7 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Wouldn't actually make a whole lot of sense to display only refused mates, especially if the reason is just that some of the refused mates are on breeding cooldown right now.

Sometimes, I also cannot see a dragon's proper mate because that one is on cooldown from another breeding. When no offspring from previous breedings exist, it's impossible to tell if my dragon has a working mate or not - the Action Log wouldn't tell, and my memory is holey.

 

Soooo ... I can imagine a link in the Actions page saying "view additional breeding information about this dragon/drake/name-of-creature" (the "viewing" would be the action here).

The linked page would then display, selected by a filter drop-down box:

 

 

I would actually like a way to see all past mates, but I try to keep my suggestions simple/one topic because of the fact that I keep coming up w/duplicate suggestions 😆

[Shadowdrake]

I feel like a general breeding-management page would have the most use-- it could show you prior mates and refused mates, and maybe allow you to remove mates that you don't want to keep misbreeding after you already misbred once, or even "prefer" an unbred mate to go up top the next time you breed. Like an "add to list of mates" thing using the system groups have.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Shadowdrake

[Dracaena]

I do like Ruby Eyes' idea.  I looked at this thread last night and was thinking the information on refused mates would be very handy but the actions page seemed like a better location to me.  But I was half asleep at the time and know it's not the best idea to sleep post.   Ruby Eyes did a much better job of thinking it through than I did last night and took it a step further which is excellent.

 

For those who don't do much lineage breeding it is very helpful working on checkers to know if you can switch mates around to breed someone else an unrelated egg to help with their lineages.  I used to run into that a fair bit when I was still working with silver and holiday checkers (my silvers are retired since the silver sprite update).  I've resorted to making notes of who refused who on the metals on my lineage web site.  I bought a large rolodex a couple years ago with the intent of going through all my word pad records to make a card for each dragon's breeding information.  But the lack of round tuit's (around to it) strikes again and the cards are all still blank and I'm on my second word pad file as I've filled up the first one!   Having that information accessible would be wonderful!

[StormWizard212]

10 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

I feel like a general breeding-management page would have the most use-- it could show you prior mates and refused mates, and maybe allow you to remove mates that you don't want to keep misbreeding after you already misbred once, or even "prefer" an unbred mate to go up top the next time you breed. Like an "add to list of mates" thing using the system groups have.

 

I like this suggestion a lot. If there is a list of general breeding information, I'd love to be able to remove mates to prevent misbreeding in future. If there was some sort of feature to select a main mate as well (so that while that dragon is selected it is the only option that shows up in that dragon's breed list) I would like it even more.  But that's a bit different to the suggestion here. Basically, I would like to see a 'breeding history' or something page that provides all of these details and allows a bit of customisation, too. 

[anetofstars]

I like the OP's idea w/ more breeding history. 

[JavaTigress]

On 5/1/2018 at 3:27 AM, StormWizard212 said:

@perzephone I hear what you're saying about the dragon's page being the most logical place for this information to be listed, but I'm really against having this information on the dragon's breed page. I'm definitely of the same mindset as @Cinspawn - I would see this as a blemish and it would be a constant disappointment to see it on the page, to be honest. I change the mates for many of my dragons and don't commit to the same ones outside of specific checkers, but I think this would be especially frustrating for those who do have just one, consistent mate for each dragon. I don't think they'd want to be reminded of a failed sort of non-mate, if that makes sense. For my checkers who do have just one mate, I get really frustrated if I accidentally breed them with someone else and I end up with one dragon offspring from a different mate, and the list of refusals reminds me a bit of that.

 

Another reason I don't want this information on a dragon's view page is because I don't really want that page cluttered with more links than it already has. It might just be a personal preference, but I'd prefer as few links as possible, so unless something is completely necessary, I'd prefer not to have it there. In this case, I don't personally see much value in a list of refusals when that information can already be accessed from the breed page if the other dragon isn't on breeding cool down. 

 

If the issue is that you want to be able to see the refusals outside of the refused mate's breeding window, then a solution I'd prefer to see is to list all refused mates at the bottom of the breed list, even if the other dragon is currently on cool down. I think that's a much simpler solution to this problem that doesn't have any real downsides but provides that extra information some people might want. I think that would be a really good alternative to consider.

Frankly, I think this is what I'd like to see more than it showing up on my view page.

 

I can see how the info WOULD be sort of useful, and AS that particular dragon has permanently refused the dragon in question.... why shouldn't it show up permanently on the breed page as such.

Whether it is on CD only matters if they actually COULD breed, right? 

 

Refusals, after all, mean that it is NEVER gonna happen... at least at this point.