In-game block system - master sollution to many problems (even future ones)

[deleted_account]

a working block feature would block the ACCOUNT not a username. If you block 2nd username, you don't need to know what was the 1st NOR 3rd for the person to get blocked and stay blocked even if they did a million of username changes before AND after of which you have no idea. That's the point of a block system. You don't need to ever remember or know them usernames, you just click "block" and it's blocked, no matter what that person does other than multiscrolling or having someone trade for them against which you would be able to do nothing ever. 

 

You seem to have no idea how an account block works and how it IS supposed to work on DC... it's not like blocking a phone number, geez. How many scroll accounts do you have? More than 1? Well, then you won't get stopped by a username history either. 
Eh, I see no point of discussion with people here, honestly. 

 

"Ye, and always keep remebering and checking. Guys, it's for YOU. I couldn't care less whom I'm getting sth I need from but many of you, forum users, do (and have this unreasonable demand of seing my to-be-past scrollname EXACTLY for the reasons the block feature is needed instead). But sure you "don't need a block feature". If you so much don't need a block feature, then you absolutely don't need to see my to-be-past scrollname which wouldn't do even half for you of what the block would do. But I can speak to a wall as well."
this. Simply. 
 

[Fuzzbucket]

I know exactly how it works. I have one person blocked on this forum. They have changed their name and yes, they are still blocked.

 

I don't want to have to block people. It's silly. I cited the phone example just to point out that it is hardly the same as spying.

 

And why to see a past scroll name - in case I WANT to find someone who has changed their name. I don't actually want it for blocking -= someone just asked why anyone would block someone, and I gave some reasons. I want it just to know who is, and was who. Simples. And of course I don't have more than one account. That's a burning offence.

[Guillotine]

Uh, people want username histories because a lot of the time if some changes their username and you don't have that you'll have no clue who's who? It's a huge issue on tumblr, at least. You don't need to have a bad relation with someone to want to know who people are after changing their name--at least IRL you have a face to ID!
 

[Fuzzbucket]

THANK you Guillotine, for the voice of reason ♥

[The Dragoness]

I don't see how a blocking system is at all necessary with the new trading hub. If you choose to make a public trade, you are accepting the risk that someone you dislike will make an offer. If they do, just decline it. I also can't see any way for scamming to be possible in a direct two-way trade without communication. Viewbombing, on the other hand, will happen regardless of how many people you block as long as your eggs are unhidden. The trading hub is optional for these very reasons.

 

For example: today, someone who I dislike because of their rude behavior towards me made an offer on my trade. I've blocked them on the forum so they can no longer harass me, but my scroll name is different than my forum name. These things happen. It's not a big deal. In the end, I actually accepted the egg because it was exactly what I was asking for. 

 

Am I missing something here?

[Fuzzbucket]

Nope

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, MhKhu said:

a working block feature would block the ACCOUNT not a username. If you block 2nd username, you don't need to know what was the 1st NOR 3rd for the person to get blocked and stay blocked even if they did a million of username changes before AND after of which you have no idea. That's the point of a block system. You don't need to ever remember or know them usernames, you just click "block" and it's blocked, no matter what that person does other than multiscrolling or having someone trade for them against which you would be able to do nothing ever. 

 

You seem to have no idea how an account block works and how it IS supposed to work on DC... it's not like blocking a phone number, geez. How many scroll accounts do you have? More than 1? Well, then you won't get stopped by a username history either. 
Eh, I see no point of discussion with people here, honestly. 

 

"Ye, and always keep remebering and checking. Guys, it's for YOU. I couldn't care less whom I'm getting sth I need from but many of you, forum users, do (and have this unreasonable demand of seing my to-be-past scrollname EXACTLY for the reasons the block feature is needed instead). But sure you "don't need a block feature". If you so much don't need a block feature, then you absolutely don't need to see my to-be-past scrollname which wouldn't do even half for you of what the block would do. But I can speak to a wall as well."
this. Simply. 
 

 

As I said in my previous post, that only works if you block a user and *then* they change their name. What happens if User A, who has scammed you in the past, changes their name to User B, but for whatever reason you hadn't actually blocked User A? You'd have no idea that User B is the person who scammed you, so of course you wouldn't block them, which would lead to more bad things. The whole point of username history is to know who someone is, regardless of whether or not you've *already* blocked them. What if username changes are implemented before a blocking feature is? 

 

And as Fuzz said, wanting a username history doesn't necessarily have anything to do with blocking or scamming at all. I like to know who I'm trading with, simple as that. I see a username and I can recognize it as someone I've traded with before, for instance. I know certain usernames have really awesome scrolls that I sometimes like to look at (cool naming schemes, etc). There are soooo many reasons why knowing who a user *is* would be wanted, that has nothing to do with blocking.

[deleted_account]

On 5/22/2018 at 12:07 AM, HeatherMarie said:

 

As I said in my previous post, that only works if you block a user and *then* they change their name. What happens if User A, who has scammed you in the past, changes their name to User B, but for whatever reason you hadn't actually blocked User A? You'd have no idea that User B is the person who scammed you, so of course you wouldn't block them, which would lead to more bad things. The whole point of username history is to know who someone is, regardless of whether or not you've *already* blocked them. What if username changes are implemented before a blocking feature is? 

 

And as Fuzz said, wanting a username history doesn't necessarily have anything to do with blocking or scamming at all. I like to know who I'm trading with, simple as that. I see a username and I can recognize it as someone I've traded with before, for instance. I know certain usernames have really awesome scrolls that I sometimes like to look at (cool naming schemes, etc). There are soooo many reasons why knowing who a user *is* would be wanted, that has nothing to do with blocking.

 

Simple. Once both are implemented, you just block the user by the username you know them as, and the block still works even if they changed their username before you blocked them. Knowing ONE scrollname is enough for a well-made block system to work. On Deviantart, which has the best username change method I've ever seen, blocking works exactly in the way that doesn't require you to know about the username changes of those you block. also, past username is visible for 6 months after the change, and no longer shows after that time UNLESS you put the old username in the url and it redirects you to the new one - if DC can't have redirecting, some limited time of both usernames displayed does more than anyone needs. Half a year is plenty of time. And after half a year of not seing an username, most of people forget the past usernames anyway. With blocking you'd never need to remember any of them. 
It would also help if blocking is introduced first and foretells username change.

 

This is not enough to demand people to drop their privacy. Scrolls are being hidden not without reasons, and one of the biggest is privacy and avoiding trolling. You could simply ignore trade offers from hidden users if you really can't accept not knowing so badly, but they should be able to trade without displaying their username, past or present, with anyone who doesn't care whom they trade with through a system that allows no scam unlike IOUs. And with a block system, if you blocked users you blacklisted, they would not be able to offer on your trades anyway, no matter if and when they change username or truly hide it. Nobody except mods should be able to see scrollnames even on "hidden" scrolls, you don't. Why should your demand be more valid than user privacy? And I see privacy is strongly defended in this community - with this one silly exception. 

 

A blocking system is a basic feature of websites and games that allow interuser interactions. And trading system on DC is an interuser interaction feature. Anyone should be able to prevent chosen users from offering on their trades ever again or for some period of time. For piece of mind and time saving. It's beyond irritating to get spammed with invalid trade offers. or getting excited for getitng an offer but having comapred against your blacklist to reject it just because it was from the user you don't want to trade with ever again, or to get viewbombed for constantly rejecting each of their offers. There are more people that you'd like who won't stop bothering you until you block them. Now you can't do that. Just because you maybe won't ever have a situation like this, doesn't mean it doesn't happen around, I nor my gf ever got viewbombed, but this doesn't mean viewbombing is not a huge problem overall.
Blocking tools should be given to the userbase. You can ofc refuse to use them and forever waste your time and nerves if things happen to you. But there should be a choice. I for instance don't want to waste my time and nerves, while I could just click some block button and forget. 

[Fuzzbucket]

37 minutes ago, MhKhu said:

Nobody except mods should be able to see scrollnames even on "hidden" scrolls, you don't. Why should your demand be more valid than user privacy? And I see privacy is strongly defended in this community - with this one silly exception. 
 

 

WHAT ? That would RUIN loads of the games and gifting threads here. Are you seriously suggesting that all scroll name should be hidden ? You don't have to have them show on your individual dragons/growing things, but to conceal it everywhere is WAY over the top.

 

Quote

A blocking system is a basic feature of websites and games that allow interuser interactions. And trading system on DC is an interuser interaction feature.

 

Trading here is not exactly user interaction as there is effectively none between scrolls; it's just a matter of clicking in the market - and that didn;t even exist when you started this thread - at which point there was none.

 

[HeatherMarie]

3 hours ago, MhKhu said:

A blocking system is a basic feature of websites and games that allow interuser interactions. And trading system on DC is an interuser interaction feature.

 

If the Trading Hub counts as interuser interaction, then so does hunting the AP and biomes, since other users are there too. And grabbing AP eggs, someone else bred those so that's interuser interaction as well, right? .... Well no. There currently is NO actual direct communication between users on DC. None. You don't talk to someone when you accept an offer on a trade and no one talks to you. There is *zero* actual communication. And until there is, I still see no point in an actual blocking feature. 

 

3 hours ago, MhKhu said:

You could simply ignore trade offers from hidden users if you really can't accept not knowing so badly

 

If you say someone could simply ignore trade offers..... Why can't they do that now? Instead of blocking, just ignore the offer from the person you don't want to trade with. It's that simple. You say yourself that people could simply ignore trade offers in one scenario, so why not in this scenario? Is it really so horrible to have someone you don't like *offer* on your trade? You don't have to accept. You don't even have to acknowledge the offer in any way. 

[Vampyre]

In a game where all DIRECT (like actual chatting) user interaction is on seperate sites like the forum, irc, and discord servers? What good would a block do? Wanting a block on the OFF CHANCE that one of your enemies might want to trade with you sounds a bit petty imho. If its a 2 way they still have to give you fair deal for your pixels whether they recognize your scroll name or not (if not you wouldnt accept anyways). If its you wanting to ditch some derg on the departures you could always do a two way and ask for them to just offer up a random ap offer so you can screen and skip any enemies.

 

As it is I have people I dislike on the irc and forums, people I have blocked on BOTH, however on DC they pretty much cant hurt me. Even if they did try viewbombing me there are PLENTY of safety measures to prevent them from killing my pixels.

[StormWizard212]

11 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

There currently is NO actual direct communication between users on DC.

 

This is why I think that a block system isn't necessary. While there is some degree of 'interaction', it's not personalised for a specific recipient. Anything that is posted on the trading hub is public to all players and does not have an individual audience. This is a significant distinction. It drastically reduces the likelihood of personalised harassment/abuse.

 

Could I still post a trade and write "I hate [insert user here]" in the input box? Well, sure, I suppose. But the chances of people doing this are minimal and the chance of the intended target seeing it is even more minimal because: 1) TJ has already said that a report feature is imminent and this would be flagged as inappropriate and taken down and 2) there are a lot of trades at any given time and the chance of the target being online at the right time and seeing the right trade is slim. 

 

Until we have personalised scroll to scroll interaction, I don't think a block feature is necessary. 

[Aalbiel]

1 hour ago, Vampyre said:

In a game where all DIRECT (like actual chatting) user interaction is on seperate sites like the forum, irc, and discord servers? What good would a block do? Wanting a block on the OFF CHANCE that one of your enemies might want to trade with you sounds a bit petty imho.

 

This.

 

Honestly, until DC has a feature where you can directly WRITE to someone, this is so unnecessary. The worst I can imagine someone doing is putting up a trade where they abuse the freeform box to insult you or something but a) that would not actually go to you so you may even not see it and b) that is clearly forbidden in the trading rules and will result in the person losing trading abilities 

 

Edit: Ninja'd by Storm who made my exact point 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Aalbiel

[Fuzzbucket]

5 hours ago, StormWizard212 said:

 

Until we have personalised scroll to scroll interaction, I don't think a block feature is necessary. 

 

And please may this never happen....

[deleted_account]

If it was not necessary, this discussion would never occur, yet it did: https://forums.dragcave.net/topic/183627-ignore-list-on-the-trading-hub

Edited September 30, 2018 by Meh

[Fuzzbucket]

What "happened" ? Nothing actually happened - Ruby Eyes described something that MIGHT happen if the feature suggested was set up in the way someone suggested. It hasn't happened to anyone.

 

Just ignore players you don't want to trade with.

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, Meh said:

If it was not necessary, this discussion would never occur, yet it did: https://forums.dragcave.net/topic/183627-ignore-list-on-the-trading-hub/?tab=comments#comment-9750529

 

Very confused why you point to that link as supposed proof that an in-game block system is necessary? That link leads to a post that describes why an in-game block system would be *bad*, if someone makes a hasty decision to block someone. That's like the opposite of what you seem to be arguing. 

[deleted_account]

On 9/28/2018 at 5:50 PM, HeatherMarie said:

 

Very confused why you point to that link as supposed proof that an in-game block system is necessary? That link leads to a post that describes why an in-game block system would be *bad*, if someone makes a hasty decision to block someone. That's like the opposite of what you seem to be arguing. 

 

The OP is still exactly what I suggested just less advanced and multi-purpose, and note just mainly a few of the most often anti-everything people have problems with it. If someone puts you on their personal offsite blacklist the result for you as the to-be-blocked person is exactly the same with and without the block system, just the person who rejects you would have their life MUCH easier and less stressful. I fail to see their only big point against, since the 'problem' is still occurable right now anyway and no block/ignore system would suddently add it to the game, it's aready there since I've seen enough of users claiming they use manual time-consuming blacklists regularly. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Meh

[Fuzzbucket]

You did link to a post that suggested something REALLY bad that would happen with an autoblocker, rather than linking to the OP.

 

And I have no doubt  that you are referring to me as an anti-everything person - so please note that I actually said the system in that other thread was OK with some caveats. A more temporary and less all-embracing thing than what you want.

 

We can already block people on forums. The forum is not linked to the game directly and TJ has said that we will never be able to communicate in the game. So the people who have different names here and on their scrolls are not directly linked, no matter which way you cut it. Those people have quite deliberately not linked forum to scroll, because they don't WANT that link.

 

If you want a blacklist, run your own. There aren't THAT many trades up there that you can't see pretty fast who is up there that you don't want to trade with. The idea in the other thread that blocks expire after the trade in question expires was pretty good.

Edited September 30, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[deleted_account]

26 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

You did link to a post that suggested something REALLY bad that would happen with an autoblocker, rather than linking to the OP.

 

And I have no doubt  that you are referring to me as an anti-everything person - so please note that I actually said the system in that other thread was OK with some caveats. A more temporary and less all-embracing thing than what you want.

 

We can already block people on forums. The forum is not linked to the game directly and TJ has said that we will never be able to communicate in the game. So the people who have different names here and on their scrolls are not directly linked, no matter which way you cut it. Those people have quite deliberately not linked forum to scroll, because they don't WANT that link.

 

If you want a blacklist, run your own. There aren't THAT many trades up there that you can't see pretty fast who is up there that you don't want to trade with. The idea in the other thread that blocks expire after the trade in question expires was pretty good.

and you double posted, we all make those tiny mistakes. 

 

I meant nobody specific, but can't help noticing certain group of people are like always anti suggestions, unless they personally would use it, but almost never if others would use it but not them themselves or are just generally anti-change. But that's not the point.

 

Nobody said my block system idea wouldn't be temporary if one chooses so, in fact, all block systems I ever seen in use are reversible.  Also, there's no rule that would say there can't be 2 different block results to choose from, from regular(that you can remove manually anytime in the future) to just for the given area, like a particular trade offer. Having the feature offer both options would be ideal. 

 

Please note that those people, who had the same forum name as scroll name even once are now all doomed and currently have no means to de-attach those two... Their game and forum are linked and forever with current state of things.... this also needs to be fixed. And note, block system doesn't mean revealing which scroll belongs with which forum account.

 

You all don't understand the convenience of not having to manually compare against blacklists and importance of not being forced to see a bunch of certain usernames remind you of some horrible people you don't want to remember about. People can have various stories and reasons for needing not to see some usernames pop up onto them and bring up some traumatic memories back when least expected. Find your humanity for those few. Let them just use the trading hub and potential other features peacefully. And if you're the reason of their distress, then just have mercy and let them never see you again if they choose so, why fighting so hard for being able to impose yourself onto them. Some situations some of the people just have to experience for themsleves in order to understand how much damage they can do that otherwise they'd just consider silly and a whim... To me people's mental well-being is much more important than some unability to see a trade offer - from a user who would still not accept it and maybe go through a traumatic memory flash... I don't get it how anyone could fight for the opposite, I'm sorry.

[Fuzzbucket]

8 minutes ago, Meh said:

and you double posted, we all make those tiny mistakes. 

 

 

No. Two completely separate posts actually.

 

And you can change your name on forum now.

 

Sorry you don't get it - and I'm sorry too that some names freak you out. But this isn't going to fly. I is just too extreme. A block with in the trade hub - OK - but NOT this massive global thing.

[Sazandora]

Yeah, um... blocking people solely because of their name is, to me, a great example on how to NOT use an in-game blocking system. I really don't think Dragon Cave needs a blocking system due to how the game works.

[Fuzzbucket]

The OP says  they need us all to recognise the

 

Quote

importance of not being forced to see a bunch of certain usernames remind you of some horrible people you don't want to remember about. 

 

Which is a shame - but sadly, is a personal problem they have to deal with for themselves. There are names in general that make me sick, and a few members here I cannot abide and will never trade with - but I would never propose there has to be some global mechanism to carer to my own personal issues.

[HeatherMarie]

See, there is a *huge* difference between a personal, manually-kept blacklist and an in-game game-endorsed blacklist. One can be very easily ignored if the person chooses to do so, the other can't (more on that in a second). One is completely up to the user keeping the blacklist and does not in any way actually affect anyone else (since no one would actually *know* they are on a blacklist, only that someone had declined their trade offer). 

 

If you keep a manual blacklist, it's very very simple to compare that list to trade offers, or trade posts, or whatever it is that you don't want to interact with. It is also very simple to decide 'eh, that offer is good enough that I'd rather accept the offer from the blacklisted person then continue to ignore them on principle', which is something that couldn't happen if it was an in-game thing. It gives more options. It allows people to be flexible in what they consider 'blacklisting' and what they consider a good enough reason to override that personal blacklist. Full-disclosure, while I don't keep an actual blacklist I did at one point have a name jotted down of someone I didn't want to trade with, because of them repeatedly offering things on my trade completely the opposite of what I wanted. ..... And then time passed, and I realized that person had some good trades, and I shouldn't let my frustration over a few little things stop me from offering on those trades. An actual in-game block system would presumably not allow that sort of flexibility. 

 

Also, I must say, some people seem to assume that if someone is against multiple suggestions it must be because they are against everything and don't care about actual reasons and etc etc.... Which is completely untrue. Do I speak out against a lot of suggestions here? Sure. If they are suggestions that will negatively impact the way I play DragonCave, or will change the game in such a drastic way that it will basically be a different game, or will change the game in a way I believe would be bad for the game itself, then yeah I'll speak up. Even if it's a suggestion I wouldn't personally use or don't *personally* care about, if it affects the game it affects me. 

 

(I also have to agree that if someone is really so upset about just *seeing* a specific username, that's probably an issue that person needs to deal with in their life, and not necessarily something the game needs to change. That sounds like something that would have underlying reasons that would probably benefit from therapy or something. An internet website does not need to be responsible for making sure every single word on the site is something that won't trigger anyone who may have underlying issues (if that were true social media in general simply wouldn't exist!))

(Full disclosure, again, I say that as someone who *does* have certain word/phrase related triggers, and is actually in therapy because of that. I do not expect the internet to cater to my issues. I avoid things that will upset me (including this forum, sometimes) and if something on a website does upset me I step back and deal with it.)

Edited September 30, 2018 by HeatherMarie

[LadyLyzar]

There is a lot of "what if" in this topic.  We can say "what if" until the cows come home but that doesn't really accomplish much.

 

Nothing in the game forces you to interact with any specific user.  If someone is actively harassing you or another user through the Trading Hub or any other game feature, contact a moderator and it will be dealt with.  If seeing someone's username is offensive, you can choose not to interact with them or trade with them.

 

As such, I still do not believe an in-game block system is necessary or a useful feature at this juncture.