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Vain.3805

Encouraging Subscriptions Without Penalizing its Absence

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I'm wondering if there's any ideas on how to accomplish this.  Currently the game is uncomfortably close to cheat or pay to win.  Trading mitigates it somewhat.  You can catch 40 bsa eggs and hatch them in exchange for a CB rare /sarcasm.  Even the banner at the bottom of pages if you use ad blocking software (and possibly Chrome with their new ad block built in) causes a noticeable delay in egg catching.  This means that unless you pay for a subscription you are not only inconvenienced by ads but you have a measurable disadvantage compared to those who do pay.

 

Before you shoot the messenger:

- I have CB rares that I caught with my own big boy pants.  I do not pay for a subscription.

- I do actively block the part of the website where an ad would physically appear because of the decrease in web page performance (and subsequent increase with its absence).  I can get you exact measurements, but I'm lazy so it'll take me forever.  Do your own homework if you have concerns.

- I have a decent computer set up and Fiber internet.  I live 2 hours different from cave time.

 

Theories?  Ideas?  Suggestions?  I was thinking something to preload ads or perhaps have a way to refresh the egg part of the cave without refreshing the entire page (so the ads would stay loaded and not contribute to egg refresh times).

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Is this actually a problem? I don't pay and caught a CB silver last week on my tablet, and wifi connected to xfinity isn't exactly the fastest connection!

 

I can think of a couple easy ways to implement what you're thinking though, and see no reason not to "lazy load" the ads. If you're hitting refresh fast enough you don't see them anyways, so not starting their loading until the page is loaded probably wouldn't change much.

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I'm not sure if it's actually damaging gameplay but I do know the difference in load times is measurable and I have more trouble with so much as the "don't block ads kittens" loading.

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I have never really seen where the ads have prevented the actual cave page from loading. Usually, the ads take a bit longer than the eggs to load, so I fail to see how the non-invasive ads interfere with catching. DC has never been in any way, shape, or form a pay to play website. Nonetheless, I'll move this to Suggestions and see what LadyLyzar and TJ think. I don't think it really fits in SD as it's more of a suggestion thread.

 

And if the "PLS DON'T BLOCK ADS" ads are the issue, I don't see why you don't just not block ads for DC? I'm not trying to be unhelpful, just trying to really understand the issue you're having. 

 

Also the point of ads is to generate revenue to keep the site running... if ads are an inconvenience I think you can donate any sort of amount to DC and have the ads removed. I've never done so; kind of debating it now. I feel as if the small donation fixes the problems as well. 

 

Edit: Also, sorry I didn't see the option for leaving a link in SD from where I moved this, I hope that doesn't cause issues with your finding this thread.

Edited by Earth Gurl

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The cave is actually faster for me with the ads blocked, than with them enabled, oddly enough. I also don't trust ads, like, at all, so Adblock all the way for me... Still not sure where the problem is? I've seen people catch rares on potato devices. Whether they paid for ad removal or not, it doesn't matter - the key is the timing. 

 

And I like the banner with cats. Best argument.

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How is DC "uncomfortably close to cheat or pay to win"? I don't have a subscription (Person with no job here lol), I use Adblock Plus (free). I see the cat ads for getting a subscription (God I just misspelled subscription like so bad there orz) I have personally caught CB Silvers, CB Coppers (all 3 colors), I got a CB Holly during the re-release in cave by myself.

I have every rare as a CB besides Golds, Neglecteds and Prizes (To which the latter two are not caught in cave) And I have some of the worst internet around. Sometimes it legit takes 30 minutes for a 3 minute video to load, that's how slow it can get.

But the ads/banners at the bottom have never once interfered with my catching ability?? Just my own personal slow internet/reaction time to seeing a rare. :P In fact the eggs are always loaded a second or two before the banner across the bottom loads?

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Another without a subscription + adblock. I haven't had much trouble with catching xenos or zyus when I see them and I've got crap, rural internet.

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1 hour ago, Vain.3805 said:

Even the banner at the bottom of pages if you use ad blocking software (and possibly Chrome with their new ad block built in) causes a noticeable delay in egg catching.  This means that unless you pay for a subscription you are not only inconvenienced by ads but you have a measurable disadvantage compared to those who do pay.

I disagree with this claim. Before introducing subscriptions, I specifically verified that the ads load after the page, which means that they do not impact hunting in the cave / abandoned page. This behavior is still true today.

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My personal experience tells me something different, but I'm not a coder so I can't back that up with numbers. There is a noticable slow down when refreshing, and if the ad starts to load before you can refresh again, the page will not refresh until the ad finishes loading.

 

I don't know how it would affect your monetary income, but have you considered removing ads from the biomes and the abandoned page? Leave them on all other pages, but remove them from the pages that we hunt on. Those of us stuck with slower internet speeds would be very appreciative.. my DSL is wonky enough already and our lines are NOT fiberoptic.

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I don't have DSL or fiberoptic (I live in a low-income rural area that doesn't even have cell service in many places)... and the ads load a solid 2-3 seconds AFTER eggs appear. The eggs appear almost instantly. I've also found DC is one of the *only* sites that actually loads (images and all) when our service is at its worst. 

 

I turned adblock on and off, and saw no difference in the amount of time the eggs appeared to me (updated). However, the ads themselves do load more slowly when enabled which is kind of annoying to see the page spinning a bit longer. I can also refresh the page as many times as I like before the ads load, and the eggs still update on the AP instantly. What TJ says about how the cave is supposed to load checks out for me.  

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I don't have fiberoptic. I use a hotspot from my phone so I can get on my laptop. I also don't have a subscription and I use adblock plus. I have had no trouble with loading times besides during Holiday's or when the site gets busy from people coming home from work/school. I also can refresh many times and there not be delay. You might want to look at your own internet and see if you are being slowed down by them?

Edited by IVIandy

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1 hour ago, TJ09 said:

I disagree with this claim. Before introducing subscriptions, I specifically verified that the ads load after the page, which means that they do not impact hunting in the cave / abandoned page. This behavior is still true today.

 

TJ, I know you've tested this and proved it, but I've also noticed shifts in loading times. Not sure why, but... thems the way it goes on my end. Having said that, some cleverness on the part of a user can drastically speed things up. Things like incognito windows, switching to St Pats skin (which is far faster, with or without ads blocked), and a few other things you can try can really help. Me, I've found that what helps the most varies on the computer and what day it is. Sometimes some things help more than others. 

 

Having said that, I do pay for the ads removed (despite having AdBlock+). I don't do it for the speed, I do it because the ads (or placeholders) drive me bonkers and $5 a month is a small price to pay for that minor irritation completely removed. And I'm too lazy to bother getting into the web stuff to get rid of it that way when I can just pay $5 a month and not have to worry about it. 

 

Cheers!
C4. 

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7 minutes ago, Earth Gurl said:

I don't have DSL or fiberoptic (I live in a low-income rural area that doesn't even have cell service in many places)... and the ads load a solid 2-3 seconds AFTER eggs appear. The eggs appear almost instantly. I've also found DC is one of the *only* sites that actually loads (images and all) when our service is at its worst.

This exactly. Whenever I wonder if our internet is down or just being slow, I go straight to DC because it is really the only site that will load everything despite horrid internet speeds. If it doesn't load then I know our internet is just down and not slow.
And still the eggs always load seconds before the ads do. No matter what.

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Whenever this comes up TJ always talks about how the ad thing can't be true.

 

I play this website without adblock because it feels bad not to, but from my experience some ads do slow down the page significantly. Not the actual loading of the page, but it seems like with some ads the refresh rate is ridiculous, which makes things like hour drops unbearable

 

I don't think the ads are affecting the loading of the page... but it seems like because they load after, my internet likes to keep me on the page until they're all loaded and done. And that can sometimes affect refresh time and in turn mean I can be late to an egg I really wanted.

 

I'm not sure if that's the actual issue, but (presumed) server lag + ads not wanting to load = a bad time on DC. I think it's mostly just when ads I've never seen before coincide with the resets or high traffic times.

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2 minutes ago, Alrexwolf said:

I play this website without adblock because it feels bad not to, but from my experience some ads do slow down the page significantly. Not the actual loading of the page, but it seems like with some ads the refresh rate is ridiculous, which makes things like hour drops unbearable

This has been my experience as well. It seems that often my browser (Firefox) won't refresh until the ad is finished loading. so the load time of the eggs may not be slowed by the ads, but the refresh time definitely is, which can make a huge difference when hunting!

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To be completely honest this baffles me every time it comes up. Until relatively recently (a bit over a year ago) I had very crummy, slow internet, and until just a few months ago the browser I was using was itself frustratingly slow... I have *never* experienced issues with DC ads making loading time worse. At one point it seemed that the biome backgrounds caused a slight delay in loading, but never the ads. Like Earth Gurl, my experience has been that the ads almost *always* load *after* the eggs, sometimes up to 5 seconds after. I do remember a couple specific ads that gave me issues, but those were problem-ads in general, the kind that possibly carry bad things, and they vanished relatively quickly. I used to not hunt the biomes much except during new releases, but I have been a lot for the past few months, and I can say with absolute certainty that the ads have *never* caused a delay in loading the eggs for me (on the contrary, often the ads themselves don't load at all despite my ad-blocker being turned off). 

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I have purchased the ad removal subscription in the past and it made no difference to my loading times. Even with ads, the eggs always load first for me 

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6 hours ago, TJ09 said:

ads load after the page

That is encouraging.  I'll see if I can get some numbers to better illustrate what I'm encountering in that case.

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Yep. I'm seeing the ads load up last, after all DC assets.

 

My guess would be, on the issue with the ads loading before refresh goes through during high traffic periods like hour drops? I don't think it's the ads, it's that it's a high traffic time. The servers are getting hit a lot, the response times go up, enough that the ad is able to load before the server can respond with the refreshed page. Not that the ads are preventing the refresh.

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10 hours ago, TJ09 said:

I disagree with this claim. Before introducing subscriptions, I specifically verified that the ads load after the page, which means that they do not impact hunting in the cave / abandoned page. This behavior is still true today.

This is precisely true - my computer has adblock off and I’m able to refresh the pages with no problem at all, because the ads are the last thing the page loads. If I refresh fast enough, the ad doesn’t even load! I don’t see this suggestion as a problem; with ads enabled I’ve still been able to grab loads of awesome cavebred stuff. 

 

ETA: During high traffic times (e.g. the hour drops) the cave can, admittedly, be unbearably slow. But yeah, that’s because it’s high traffic, not because the ads are suddenly clogging the screen. 

Edited by RealWilliamShakespeare

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9 minutes ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

ETA: During high traffic times (e.g. the hour drops) the cave can, admittedly, be unbearably slow. But yeah, that’s because it’s high traffic, not because the ads are suddenly clogging the screen. 

This is very true. Happens to me all the time, every hour drop. But like Grey said, it has nothing to do with the ads, simply high traffic. As soon as the hour drop has passed, the cave resumes normal amount of loading time. And the norm is, everything loads (including the eggs in the biomes/AP) seconds before the ads/banners load.

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I also use St Pat's, as the default has that nausea-inducing movement - and I agree with cy4 - even if it weren't for that, it DOES work faster. But yes - it is hell loading on the hour, no matter what - I sometimes turn page style off completely. But the ads don't seem to be the issue; the eggs do, at high traffic times.

 

But @Vain.3805 - you don't have to "pay to win", as you put it - you CAN use an ad-blocker that costs nothing, and most of them include an element blocker, which even kills the cats. I do not have super-fast internet, and I use firefox - it does seem to be OK about refreshing before the cats finish loading - which does happen AFTER the eggs.

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I was not aware the St Pat's skin loaded faster, and never use it because tbqh I hate the look.... But I just tried it and hot dammmmmmn! I have the slowest internet and I always put the cave's slow loading down to that (end of the road mountain internet.... not the best). The green skin makes a very noticeable difference though, I might actually have a chance at catching something in the drops now, who knows!

 

Will be using it despite my aesthetic objections, for sure.

Edited by Aalbiel

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I should point out that TJ says this is not possible. That all skins load at the same speed. But it simply is not my experience - or that of others.

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