ANSWERED:Stolen art

[Beldarius]

And this is why I use Pixabay if I ever need to use pictures that are in the public domain. It's amazing how people don't know about that site - it literally lets you use stuff for free, and nothing on that site is copyrighted. If that Dragonskeep site wanted to, they could exchange the Reds for this. https://pixabay.com/fi/dragon-eläinten-peto-olento-2754284/

Edited February 17, 2018 by Beldarius

[Draconiusultamius]

They brought up this thing... As they claim they have contacted Silvanaon, they say that the terms and services state that art to be used is negotiated between the artist and whoever wants to use it.

 

I really don't see any reason for them to lie about this to such an extent, but I'm still going to take everything with a grain of salt.

 

Edit: they just sent me this

 

Its the first part of the email to Silvanon that Zephyr_drake posted.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Draconiusultamius

[TJ09]

To clarify some things:

• The official art agreement states that art may not be submitted for use on other sites (adoptables site or not). In this case, giving permission for The Dragon's Keep to use the art is a violation of the agreement.
• Since copyright of the sprite stays with the artist, this doesn't invalidate that site's right to use the art (the agreement is only between DC and the artist).
• Nothing will necessarily happen to the red dragon sprites as a result of this, but given the agreement was broken, it is possible they will be removed/replaced (and I cannot stress enough, given past tendency for "possible" to blow up—there are no concrete plans at this time).
• Hopefully, the art usage thread will see some updates to better clarify some things (in particular, commercial usage of the sprites shouldn't be allowed regardless of the "off site" permission listed there). We'll work on that.
• In most cases, the copyright holder must be the one to submit a takedown notice, so there's not usually anything DC can do there.

[Whirlaway]

Has it been confirmed that Silavnon actually allowed these people to use the Red dragon? I really hope they didn't...

Edited February 18, 2018 by Dorchet

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh god I hope not too - I LOVE the red dragon so....

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Is there anyway to contact the artist? I'd rather much hear it from them before anything else happens :|

[Ariento]

33 minutes ago, Dalek Raptor said:

Is there anyway to contact the artist? I'd rather much hear it from them before anything else happens :|

 

I agree, it's possible to fake emails/screenshots. I'd like confirmation from Silvanon before we condemn them for something they might not have done in the first place.

[silver_tiger]

I'm not even worried about condemning the artist for doing something that, going by the email we have been given, the artist seems to think is perfectly within their rights to do. I want confirmation that these people didn't just steal the dragon image and are now trying to get away with that theft.

[Draconiusultamius]

I'm currently keeping the people on the dragon keep updated about this situation.  They are willing to change their banner to prevent Silvanon from getting in trouble for being kind.  Would this resolve the situation @TJ09?  Or would action still be taken against Silvanon?

 

Also, the people at the dragon's keep stated that there was an original version of the artists agreement that didn't include the exclusivity clause.  I asked Infinis about it and she said there was only one she could think of, but it does say revision 1.1, so it's still possible that there was a version 1.0.  Is there any other in-cave spriter that has been on the site as long as Silvanon and who is still active who can attest to this?

Edited February 19, 2018 by Draconiusultamius

[Admiral_Craymen]

Looks like they're not being very mature about this. Saw this on their Facebook page:

 

" So we maybe needing to design a new dragon for our logo as the witch hunt continues even now they are going after the artist who was very nice to us and let us use her dragon. So, waiting for the artist to get back to us because hate to give into crazy gamer internet trolls but at same time don't want her to get into trouble. You know what maybe we just need a new logo with our new store. Maybe just the universe pushing us in the right direction. Anybody who needs a good laugh check it out https://forums.dragcave.net/topic/181765-stolen-art/"

 

A link:

Not sure how this is considered trolling, but okay.

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Ganondorf

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Something is incredibly wrong with the email and the Facebook page. In one it says it was unintentional, the other says the artist gave them permission.

[Admiral_Craymen]

It sounds like they're trying to play the victim. They said people were leaving one-star reviews, but I see no 1 star reviews on their Facebook page or on Google. And they are claiming that people are trolling their YouTube page, but I see no evidence of that. I can't imagine anyone posting in this thread or even this forum trolling someone.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Ganondorf

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Honestly, there's no telling how much art on that site is actually stolen. And the fact that they used bing to look up free art raises alarm. Because 1. If they look up free art and decide something is worthy to use on the sight, they'll use it without permission (like the red dragon) 2. They won't use the artist's permission. We have no way of knowing until Silvanon says something

[olympe]

Seriously, someone try and contact Silvanon, maybe someone who was close to her before. Everything else is merely conjecture at this point and doesn't lead us anywhere.

[Alrexwolf]

Just now, olympe said:

Seriously, someone try and contact Silvanon, maybe someone who was close to her before. Everything else is merely conjecture at this point and doesn't lead us anywhere.

 

That's exactly how I feel? Like, has anyone considered maybe this website is so upset BECAUSE it went through all the proper channels of permission and maybe it's an upstanding website and even though they technically did nothing wrong people are blaming them?

 

Like, if I saw everyone was just stealing art and turning a major profit from it with no consequences, but I'd actually went through obtaining permission and making sure everything was artist friendly/legal, yet I was the one getting scolded for stealing art when so many others go unpunished I think I'd be pretty miffed too. 

[Moonlight_Eevee]

I'm, this wasn't there before and it fully explains that the artists can submit their art to other places as well https://www.thedragonskeep.net/logo-art-credit/

[StarSea]

They did ask for permission but from the picture, Silvanon flat out said she doesn't think they need permission from TJ. That should have raised alarms and they should have gone to him as the very next step to make absolute sure.

 

Never ever should you assume "off site use" or "free use" means "commercial use".

[Fuzzbucket]

36 minutes ago, Dalek Raptor said:

I'm, this wasn't there before and it fully explains that the artists can submit their art to other places as well https://www.thedragonskeep.net/logo-art-credit/

 

Well, no, it doesn't. From the artist agreement:

• EXCLUSIVITY

• All art submitted to Dragon Cave may not be submitted for usage or already in use on any other site. This includes, but is not limited to, other adoptables sites. Since this agreement is not signed until art is selected for use, it does not apply to art that is not selected for use and therefore art that will not be used may be submitted to other sites.

I have no idea why this comes out so huge with so much white space

 

Ah - that MAY be better

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[olympe]

Well, let's remember that the artist's agreement is much younger than the red dragon sprite, IIRC. Fact is, we don't know what kind of agreement there is between TJ and Silvanon.

[HeatherMarie]

Yeah, honestly it's not whether or not that actually obtained permission from the artist, even if all of that is completely true it's still not allowed as per the actual DC artist agreement. That site may not really have done anything wrong since they did get the artist's permission (although after they'd already been using that art), but the artist violated the DC artist agreement.

edit: I would definitely like to know exactly what was in the agreements before the current artist agreement... While the current one is newer then the red dragon, I still have a hard time believing the old agreement would allow commercial use elsewhere.

Edited February 19, 2018 by HeatherMarie

[TJ09]

2 minutes ago, olympe said:

Fact is, we don't know what kind of agreement there is between TJ and Silvanon.

 

...?

 

23 hours ago, TJ09 said:

To clarify some things:

• The official art agreement states that art may not be submitted for use on other sites (adoptables site or not). In this case, giving permission for The Dragon's Keep to use the art is a violation of the agreement.
• Since copyright of the sprite stays with the artist, this doesn't invalidate that site's right to use the art (the agreement is only between DC and the artist).
• Nothing will necessarily happen to the red dragon sprites as a result of this, but given the agreement was broken, it is possible they will be removed/replaced (and I cannot stress enough, given past tendency for "possible" to blow up—there are no concrete plans at this time).
• Hopefully, the art usage thread will see some updates to better clarify some things (in particular, commercial usage of the sprites shouldn't be allowed regardless of the "off site" permission listed there). We'll work on that.
• In most cases, the copyright holder must be the one to submit a takedown notice, so there's not usually anything DC can do there.

 

In case I wasn't clear, the red sprite is covered under the agreement, allowing its use on The Dragon's Keep violates that agreement, but (assuming permission was indeed granted) does not mean that that site can't use the art.

[olympe]

Is the agreement really that old? I only ever heard of it years after I joined, but the red dragon was here before... But maybe I only didn't hear about it right away. *shrugs*

[Pixxelation]

1 minute ago, olympe said:

Is the agreement really that old? I only ever heard of it years after I joined, but the red dragon was here before... But maybe I only didn't hear about it right away. *shrugs*

Many artists signed it retroactively. Silvanon is one of those artists.

[olympe]

Well, in that case, it's up to TJ to contact Silvanon, isn't it? Because this is between them and nobody else.

[Fuzzbucket]

There's other stolen art doing the rounds - see TLQ - Nakase is following up hers, for instance...