Transparency in DC

[Jazeki]

I know discussion is winding down, but I just wanted to let everyone know that the first post has been updated.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Yeah, that's part of the problem. We discuss things over and over and over, and TJ doesn't tell us anything.. not what he plans, not what he will or won't do, etc. etc. etc. Most of the time I feel like everything we say, we might as well have not said anything at all.

 

We've been discussing things for over a week.. TJ has said a few things, but hasn't really told us anything. Can anyone point to any one thing that TJ said he will or won't do? Not a clarification, not an explanation.. just any one thing that he has planned and is telling us about.

 

Personally, I think everything he has said, has just been to confuse the issues. I think he enjoys confusing us and leading us on.

[ArgentiAertheri]

Semi-related, is there an "ask TJ" thread somewhere? Not one of the ask a mod ones, I'm not curious his favorite ice cream, I'm curious if he'd actually consider changing how sickness works.

 

I know he won't remove it because then we could just plop our eggs in hatcheries and come back in a week, and that ward won't be extended because… I don't remember right now, but he gave a reason for that too. But there's been lots of discussion on how to keep eggs safe while in trade, and on viewbombing, but if he's just plain unwilling to change how sickness works that's all rather a waste of time.

 

So! Two related questions TJ:

1. Are you thinking about what to do to keep eggs safe while being traded? (I guess sub-question of whether you even think that's a bug and not a feature)
2. Since sickness is a feature not a bug, any thought going in to how to keep viewbombing from being quickly fatal?

[TJ09]

29 minutes ago, ArgentiAertheri said:

Semi-related, is there an "ask TJ" thread somewhere? Not one of the ask a mod ones, I'm not curious his favorite ice cream, I'm curious if he'd actually consider changing how sickness works.

That's what suggestion threads are for.

 

29 minutes ago, ArgentiAertheri said:

ward won't be extended because… I don't remember right now, but he gave a reason for that too.

Extended ward has the potential to make sickness useless, which means it'd be better to remove sickness (not happening) than to extend ward such that eggs will never die of sickness. I've explained it better and more in-depth elsewhere, though.

 

30 minutes ago, ArgentiAertheri said:

Since sickness is a feature not a bug, any thought going in to how to keep viewbombing from being quickly fatal?

It's pretty easy to detect (and thus ban) sources of viewbombing, actually. The process will maybe probably be automated in the near future, but whatever happens, it's definitely on my radar.

[ArgentiAertheri]

That's good to know about the viewbombing problem. And I knew you'd answered about extending ward elsewhere, and ok, no extending it -- but is the issue of keeping eggs in trade safe on your eventual to do list, or not something you consider an issue? Because if it's the latter, maybe say that in one of the threads discussing in?

 

To bring this back on topic, the reason I was even asking about an "ask TJ" thread is why this thread exists -- suggestion thread should just don't seem to draw your attention, or at least, they don't draw your comments.

 

Lest this come off mean or anything, I'm a Neapolitan fan myself, and my cat really enjoys stealing any vanilla ice cream she can get, you?

[Moonlight_Eevee]

5 hours ago, TJ09 said:

It's pretty easy to detect (and thus ban) sources of viewbombing, actually. The process will maybe probably be automated in the near future, but whatever happens, it's definitely on my radar.

Look, yes, it's easy to notice when you're being viewbombed but at the same time, sometimes it happens when we're away from Dragon Cave. Everyone knows most days I have to be away from my phone due to work or if I'm asleep (it does help that I get notifications about checking my scroll sometimes thanks to Discord). I know sickness isn't going to be removed, but could it be tweaked to where it shouldn't kill eggs? I feel like it would be so much better if it could stunt the growth of both eggs and hatchlings and prevents them from growing up other than losing our hard earn work and losing a week's worth of breeding.

 

Sorry if I rambled, it's really early for me :|

[DigitalGarden]

6 minutes ago, Dalek Raptor said:

Look, yes, it's easy to notice when you're being viewbombed but at the same time, sometimes it happens when we're away from Dragon Cave. Everyone knows most days I have to be away from my phone due to work or if I'm asleep (it does help that I get notifications about checking my scroll sometimes thanks to Discord). I know sickness isn't going to be removed, but could it be tweaked to where it shouldn't kill eggs? I feel like it would be so much better if it could stunt the growth of both eggs and hatchlings and prevents them from growing up other than losing our hard earn work and losing a week's worth of breeding.

 

Sorry if I rambled, it's really early for me :|

I think TJ meant "easy" from the programmer's side. We players can't do that magic, unless the viewbombers come out like "hey look we're here" - like what we experienced recently on Discord - and it's getting more intense. Either way I agree that something has to be done about this. I like the development delay idea, I would rather have that.

[StarSea]

In all honesty development delay sounds like a bad idea to me. Either you could end up with things that won't hatch because it adds time, or you end up with things that die anyways because you're sitting there with it hoping it'll hatch, or waiting for it to get unsick, and then it just never manages to get unsick so it can hatch on time.

[DigitalGarden]

8 minutes ago, StarSea said:

In all honesty development delay sounds like a bad idea to me. Either you could end up with things that won't hatch because it adds time, or you end up with things that die anyways because you're sitting there with it hoping it'll hatch, or waiting for it to get unsick, and then it just never manages to get unsick so it can hatch on time.

Every outcome of a sickness is unpleasant, but between permadeath when I'm AFK, and delay, I choose a delay that I can still DO SOMETHING about. Or maybe a chance to revive eggs at least...? Although someone will then complain it will be too low and useless or whatever. I know I would complain, assuming the chance would be as low as reviving for zombies. Still something, I guess.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I'd rather just sickness have a topping off point, ie you can gain a certain amount of sickness causing views, but no more. The big deal with EATW getting attacked wasn't just that it was being viewbombed, it's that it was being attacked so aggressively that even ER eggs were dying within a few minutes. If sickness had a cut off point so that it could never kill within, say, five hours or so, it would still be a strong incentive to keep an eye on your eggs, but it wouldn't be as devastating as it is now.

 

Anyway, I want to make a kind of closing comment on the thread at large.

 

I want TJ to give more feedback and communication on suggestion threads that have been active for over a year.

 

People have brought up a lot of other worthy issues, but for me the above is the biggest one. Many extremely popular suggestions go on for years without comment at all, or with only vague comments, or with comments that address one part of the discussion but ignore the rest. The feeling that ideas that have been lovingly fleshed out and debated by the community for years are being ignored is, IMO, the biggest cause of the disconnected feeling between the userbase and TJ. People feel like "If ideas that many strongly feel will greatly improve the game don't get engaged responses, then does TJ care at all?" This, combined with other things gone wrong (the vampire update; almost losing alt sweetlings) just make people more and more paranoid that Bad Things Will Happen, that TJ only favors certain artists, that dragon requests is a facade, that change will never happen, etc etc. Not responding to long-loved topics is a big enough issue on its own, but it snowballs with all this other stuff to foster negative feelings that drive staff and players away. I think being more involved in such conversations would go a long way towards reversing that mentality.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Truth is, thanks to TJ's inactivity and unresponsiveness, I've pretty much quit playing DC. A game that doesn't expand and improves dies.. and I'm watching DC die.

 

I think DC would be better off if TJ would sell it to someone who actually cares.

[blockEdragon]

1 hour ago, Cinnamin Draconna said:

Truth is, thanks to TJ's inactivity and unresponsiveness, I've pretty much quit playing DC. A game that doesn't expand and improves dies.. and I'm watching DC die.

 

I think DC would be better off if TJ would sell it to someone who actually cares.

 

Not saying anything about Tj's leadership but the issue with selling the site is that there's no way of knowing if the person buying cares or not and plus pretty sure TJ dose it for passion and selling it would almost guarantee that it would become profit driven.

[The Dragoness]

I'm pretty sure that TJ cares about DC. He wouldn't still be running it if he didn't. I may not agree with all of his decisions, but I don't think he's a bad person. He has a life and a real job that take priority, just like the rest of us. DC is one of the few entirely free pet sites that still exists and I'm grateful for that. 

 

DC is expanding with each update and release. TJ has also made it a point recently to answer more questions and be active in the suggestions subforum, although he could, of course, do better. But if you really don't like him, don't force yourself to stick around. There are other games out there.

[DaniBoo]

2 hours ago, Cinnamin Draconna said:

Truth is, thanks to TJ's inactivity and unresponsiveness, I've pretty much quit playing DC. A game that doesn't expand and improves dies.. and I'm watching DC die.

 

I think DC would be better off if TJ would sell it to someone who actually cares.

 

Yeah, no. I know many people are unhappy with the way TJ does things around here, but like @blockEdragon said, if DC were to be sold it would definitely no longer be a free game. There is a large number of players here that have been playing for a decade or more, it would be easy for a potential DC buyer to make big bucks off of players who don't want to loose access to literal years of work through membership fees. 

 

The true death of DC, in my opinion, would be for TJ to sell it. There aren't many people who would put in time to code and maintain a site like this for free if there is potential money to be made. 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Oh boy, devil’s advocate time!

 

I understand people’s frustrations—heck, I’m frustrated—but give credit where credit is due. Even if there are a lot of things that annoy me, DC is pretty darn enjoyable as a whole, and getting angry at TJ with that in mind does him a disservice. It’s like being mad at George Lucas for some dumb dialogue choices when Star Wars in general is pretty amazing. Irritation is understandable, and suggestions should certainly be made, but keep things in perspective. <3

 

Now, for the other side! While I do appreciate all TJ has put into this game (and to be fair, for having an actual job he does quite a lot for this side project), it does feel like there’s so much more that could be done with the game, and he can feel... disconnected... from his userbase (see: the post he just made in the market suggestion, this whole topic). It would be nice if he could at least hire a few more hands to help out. If he DID just up and sell the whole thing, though, I don’t think that means it would crash and burn into pay for play hell. There are a lot of programmers around who like DC (see the fan site makers!) and would take good care of it, I think. I really believe DC is a nice simple game that, by that very virtue, shouldn’t require much effort (or paywalls) to generate some nice pocket change for the owner via ad revenue. ...Although I have no real experience with these things, so if I’m way off please inform me, haha!

 

Anddd TJ, if you’re about, sorry for always talking about you in third person, it’s just you move like a phantom and it’s hard to feel like I’m not shouting into the ether if I address you directly... which as I said a few posts above, is I think the biggest issue DC faces. ;~;

[Fuzzbucket]

8 hours ago, Cinnamin Draconna said:

Truth is, thanks to TJ's inactivity and unresponsiveness, I've pretty much quit playing DC. A game that doesn't expand and improves dies.. and I'm watching DC die.

 

I think DC would be better off if TJ would sell it to someone who actually cares.

 

It would NOT. It wouldn't be the same; a shedload of the "improvements" some noisy people ask for would be brought in to "bring the game up to modern standards" making it no longer the nice quiet do your own thing game that so many of us value, and the reason we don't play chicken smoothie or Flight Rising instead - and money would enter the equation.

 

And whatever else, I do think TJ cares about the game. If he didn't he would have dumped it years ago..

 

2 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

Anddd TJ, if you’re about, sorry for always talking about you in third person, it’s just you move like a phantom and it’s hard to feel like I’m not shouting into the ether if I address you directly... which as I said a few posts above, is I think the biggest issue DC faces. ;~;

 

This I'm afraid I do agree with.

[Sazandora]

11 hours ago, Cinnamin Draconna said:

Truth is, thanks to TJ's inactivity and unresponsiveness, I've pretty much quit playing DC. A game that doesn't expand and improves dies.. and I'm watching DC die.

 

I think DC would be better off if TJ would sell it to someone who actually cares.

The last thing DC needs is for it to be sold (or given) to someone else. If you don't like how the game is now, why are you still here?

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I’m glad at least that we’ve received a definite answer regarding sickness, and it’s one I am pleased for, I must say. I know it can be annoying, especially with viewbombing, but sickness is a pivotal part of the game which adds that level of trickiness. If it were to be removed or changed, we could just slap our stuff in hatcheries and there’d be no challenge - for a game about raising babies, it’s important to actually take care of them. However, while I’m glad we’ve had an answer, and while I know that the reasons why sickness is staying are quite obvious, I’ll admit that some explanation and discussion wouldn’t hurt. In the true fashion of the meaning of this thread, discussion and enlightenment on said issue would be delightful.

 

And yes, while the owner’s silence can be frustrating, I think it might be going too far to think he should sell it. It hasn’t been abandoned completely - there are still news updates and additions during the holidays, as well as planned updates (TJ mentioned that sprite updates are a definite), and he still seems to care definitely. Selling would be a bad idea, and I like that the site remains free. 

[TJ09]

I'll just weigh in that (even though I don't think it needs saying) I don't plan to ever really sell the site. If I were to, though, keep in mind that the artist agreement is immediately voided and people could, in theory, pull their art without the guaranteed "wait until a replacement is ready." I have no clue how many artists would do so; I assume it would depend on who the new owner is.

 

But that's getting too far into hypotheticals (the same slippery slope that "it would become a microtransaction-laden piece of garbage" points at).

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Over a week ago TJ posted in Trader's Canyon essentially saying he wouldn't say anything on the matter because deviating from people's detailed expectations would cause an uproar. Then he left.

 

There was no discussion, no asking what points we'd be willing to reconsider, what things he was most interested in, the feasibility of it at all, no response to people's points that it got so fleshed out 1) because we'd had nothing else to do in years of waiting for him to reply and 2) as an attempt to work out the kinks FOR HIM to make it easier to implement and, above all else, that we were willing to accept change if only he'd join the discussion and actually talk with us. It isn't change that's the problem, it's lack of communication making it feel like TJ isn't listening, at all, which in turn makes it feel like very good points are being ignored for no reason. TJ suggesting changes to the topic after talking with us for a while is very different from TJ jumping in, saying X won't happen, and then vanishing when people try to give reasoning for why X was a good reason to begin with.

 

I understand TJ has a real job, and I'm grateful time is devoted to this free site at all. But at the same time, many popular threads sit for years without adequate response. That goes from people feeling "maybe he's just busy, be patient" to wondering if he cares at all, and is why people are being blatant enough to ask if he'd be willing to pass the site over to someone who'd be more involved.

 

And I'll say it again--DC is a fun simple game and would be without a lot of proposed changes. But at the same time, some of them make SO MUCH SENSE, and it's extremely disheartening to never really get resolutions or active involvement from the site's sole operator on so many popular, long-running suggestions.

Edited March 3, 2018 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fuzzbucket]

I have to agree with ADP here. Even a blunt Not going to happen would be better than the apparent lack of any interest at all. We didn't even get that. But a while ago we got:

 

and we did all that....

 That said - earlier in the thread he did say it was getting far too complicated. And - I suspect that is part of the issue. What we need is a way to earn points that we can use to acquire dragons. And TJ DID post a few ideas about that earlier on. And then we started getting potions, collectibles, food... None of which are actually remotely needed. But the ways to get eggs ARE.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[olympe]

Personally, I'd suggest closing the current Trader's Canyon thread and open a new one with a summary of what it is the store does and doesn't do and why the proposed solutions have been chosen. (Like why there's no stacked points in regards to rarity, how points are earned in the first place, how grinding is being taken care of and so on.)

 

This way, we don't have pages of discussion on things that aren't even relevant any more.

Also, regarding each point: Make it clear that pretty much every single point about it is a mere suggestion.

[LadyLyzar]

If someone makes a summary post in Trader's Canyon, I would be happy to recommend it for you.

[olympe]

Well, it's going to take some time...

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Isn’t the first post a nicely done summary?