Transparency in DC

[Fuzzbucket]

50 minutes ago, Shadowdrake said:

I want to note that TJ has changed things before without any official notification, which I don't think is the best way to go about things. For examples, no one knows when the leetle tree got the name action, the announced end date of new Valentine drops was edited mid-way through drops without further mention, there was a mistletoe sprite update never officially announced AFAIK, issues in the help threads are only addressed in the help threads (like the flagging update which had gotten at least one person to accidentally report something), and there are probably several other small changes made over the year not important enough to address in individual newsthreads. I'm not saying a full changelog is necessary, but it'd be nice to get some centralized update info when it's not enough for a whole announcement.

 

Forward warning is nice, but so is being able to see what's already been changed.

 

I rather like the element of surprise for small things like Leetle naming. SMALL sprite updates - IIRC it was quite a while before anyone actually noticed quite a few of those. (Whiptails were a case in point !) If a massive sprite update happens or is planned - sure (silvers, golds - I'm looking at you !) but for little tweaks - a bit OTT, in my view.

 

As for correcting a typo in the date of Valentine drops - it WAS mentioned by TJ in the thread after people queried it; he apologised for getting the date wrong - but from the text it was quite obviously wrong from day one. It said quite clearly THREE DAYS.

 

I can totally live without announcements in BIG PRINT for things like that.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[laertid]

13 hours ago, olympe said:

Well, some unfortunate vine was made into a flower donor this Valentine... Just saying.  

 

Why don't we make up some admin  rules  guidelines?

1. No surprises that have the potential to ruin lineages. This includes but is not limited to:
   1. Drastic sprite changes (including dimorphism)
   2. Limiting breeding in any kind of capacity (like making holiday x holiday breedings impossible again)
   3. Changing certain breeding mechanics (like for alt Sweetlings or bred Mistletoes being able to gender male).
2. No drastic sprite updates. Seriously. (I love the new golds, but the formerly gorgeous gold x white lineages just don't look the same any more.)
3. No exclusives save for spriters' alts. (Only serves to create drama - see snow angels, sweetlings, prizes, formerly retired breeds.)

Regarding sweetlings and their breeding mechanics, not to mention some of the pretty alternating lineages out there: Would it be possible to code that sweetling eggs with an alt anywhere in their lineage will hatch black on a black sweetling owner's scroll, even if its father is pink? (This should take care of said alternating lines. And sorry for going off-topic, but since there's no other thread for this open any more, I didn't know where else to post this.)

 

 

Well, I may be a minority here, but I like sprite updates. Old golds were totally outdated, like they came right from year 2000. They had their "oldschool" charm, right down pat, but new ones are way better. Same with silvers. Also every old => new sprite update goes through only if it wins the vote majority, IIRC? So I'll say - update'em. Updated holly dragons are cool too.

 

And I think we all agreed that Sweetlings Alts 8 year ago were a drastic mistake (even spriter herself said that), and now there is basically no chance to fix it in a way that will benefit a whole userbase (well, there was a way - a site-wide release of'em - but TJ and Kila were strictly against it, so here we are again. Okay... just please, no more apology gifts EVER, it's such a mess). I think I don't want to hear about any Sweetlings for at least half a year x)

Edited February 18, 2018 by laertid

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

Honestly, I really wish there could be more sprite updates. I hate to say it but so many sprites are horrendously outdated. Seeing as new additions to the site have to be up to a certain, meticulous standard in order to be released at all, I personally find it kinda sad that sprites like the Reds and Seasonals are allowed to stay as they are. I fully understand the reasonings because lineages would look funky, but the Silvers managed to pull it off really well, and I feel like, isn't there a way to update sprites without it messing everything up? Because I feel like sprite updates are a really good thing in keeping the site looking good. Anyway, that was a derail.

 

@dragonstar See, we treat this site as a democracy because... It is run like one. There is a literal forum subcategory created specifically for the purpose of "if you have something to suggest to add to the site, put it here". That's what Suggestions/Requests IS. That's WHY Dragon Requests exists - because the users are allowed to have input. We get annoyed at the lack of communication because places specifically for communication were created but now we don't get any. We're annoyed and "complaining" because we were given a place to talk to the creator but the creator isn't talking back to us.

Edited February 18, 2018 by RealWilliamShakespeare

[Sazandora]

Some breeds are in a bad need of sprite update, mostly the older breeds on-site like Guardians or Nocturnes. So I must say -- more sprite updates, please!

[Fuzzbucket]

Can we not please keep a bit of history here ? Not to mention many sprite updates ruin the look of lineages. Old is not always outdated; it can be extra special.

 

(disclaimer: I am 73... .)

[Earth Gurl]

4 hours ago, laertid said:

Well, I may be a minority here, but I like sprite updates. Old golds were totally outdated, like they came right from year 2000. They had their "oldschool" charm, right down pat, but new ones are way better. Same with silvers. Also every old => new sprite update goes through only if it wins the vote majority, IIRC? So I'll say - update'em. Updated holly dragons are cool too.

 

I hardcore agree with this.

 

4 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

Honestly, I really wish there could be more sprite updates. I hate to say it but so many sprites are horrendously outdated

 

Also agree.

 

Having sprites updated to be shiny and new is so wonderful.  

 

50 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Can we not please keep a bit of history here ? Not to mention many sprite updates ruin the look of lineages. Old is not always outdated; it can be extra special.

 

(disclaimer: I am 73... .)

 

I agree slightly with this, and it gave me a laugh.  I would be more open to keeping the original poses to most and just polishing them up like has been done in the past.  Hollies are a good example <3 I would have been heartbroken if they looked too different.

 

vv Definitely!

Edited February 18, 2018 by Earth Gurl

[Fuzzbucket]

3 minutes ago, Earth Gurl said:

I agree slightly with this, and it gave me a laugh.  I would be more open to keeping the original poses to most and just polishing them up like has been done in the past.  Hollies are a good example <3 I would have been heartbroken if they looked too different.

 

Changing reds significantly would be a real killer....

[olympe]

@laertid, @RealWilliamShakespeare: Don't get me wrong, I'm all for sprite update where feasible, and I'm one of the first persons to give you a list of sprites that I feel need an update.

Spoiler

•  Bloons and seasonals due to cartoony style
• dorsals due to next to no contrast
• ultraviolets and male two-headed lindwyrms due to wonky anatomy
• reds because they look incredibly stiff, guardians due to stiffness and anatomy/shading issues - just look at those hind legs! 
• greens ("pebbles") could use a shading update
• magis due to their hind legs (those again!) and chest/shoulder area
• nocturnes because they actually lose a wing finger during the night
• papers due to having a different number of folds on each wing
• greenwings because their wings look more like flippers
• even whites could do with a shading update.
• Vines due to shading - but Lythiaren has been working on that for several years now, so maybe they will be ready sometime soon?

 I'm sure there are more, though.

 

I like all the updates that have happened so far. And yet, I feel that the gold update was done poorly. Not because the sprite isn't gorgeous - because it totally is - but because it's so drastically different from its predecessor. Silvers, on the other hand, just got an update to polish them up IMHO. (The poses are almost the same, colors similar, but with much more shine - as I said, the old sprites got a polish.) And there are numerous smaller updates that are hardly noticeable, which I consider ideal. They address the issues a sprite has while keeping the feel and overall look of the sprites the same.

[Earth Gurl]

1 minute ago, olympe said:

And yet, I feel that the gold update was done poorly. Not because the sprite isn't gorgeous - because it totally is - but because it's so drastically different from its predecessor. Silvers, on the other hand, just got an update to polish them up IMHO. (The poses are almost the same, colors similar, but with much more shine - as I said, the old sprites got a polish.) And there are numerous smaller updates that are hardly noticeable, which I consider ideal. They address the issues a sprite has while keeping the feel and overall look of the sprites the same.

 

I also agree with this entirely. The golds became an entirely different dragon; whereas, silvers got a nice polishing. I can see where golds wrecked lineages.

[Fuzzbucket]

I loved those gold medals.... And I wasn't even 73 when I lost them

[olympe]

13 hours ago, XiziX said:

I've been playing DC forever, had this account forever. But to say that the normal players around here are cared about in terms of suggestions/concepts/ideas would be kind of a lie. Why waste everyone's time. Especially the sprite threads that are left to rot for who knows how long. All this artistic work for nothing...

 

I totally do not agree with this, even though there are cases where it seems like that (in-game store, unfreezing...). But a lot of changes have happened due to user suggestions in the past - be it the second line of eggs during the marrow release (which later led to biomes being implemented), teleport (I think?), upped limits (twice, even if the suggestion wasn't exactly the way TJ implemented things), bred holidays not counting towards the breed limits, holiday re-releases, monthly raffles (even if it was only one of several suggestions to deal with prize trouble), having eggs ready to hatch at 4 days left (without any random element to have them hatch somewhere between 3 days and 4 days left), same for hatchlings, rare x rare breeding, holiday x holiday breeding, geode breeding change, smaller eggs for drakes, more pygmies/drakes/two-heads in the cave, several sprite updates, renaming, a way to get rid of zombies, making rosy-winged solstices available for everyone, giving vampires a way to make more vampires, allowing pumpkins to breed with pygmies, giving more information on dragons (=> encyclopedia) or lore, grouping, GoN breeding, re-introduction of frills and bright pinks... It's a long list, really. And I'm sure it's as incomplete as it is long. And, yes, even some breeds from the DR section got released - like canopies, nebulas, carinas, hellfires, antareans, glacewings... I'm sure there are more, but I don't know them all. =)

Edited February 18, 2018 by olympe

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I'd like a few sprite updates myself... BUT not sprite 'changes'.. keep the poses, keep the colors, but fix the anatomy issues and improve the shading.

 

Quote

Bloons and seasonals due to cartoony style

I agree with all the breeds on olympe's list, except the balloons.. Seasonals definitely need improving, but I LOVE the Balloons as is; they've totally adorable and I love their silly smile.

[Brekke]

Old gold hatchlings and seasonal hatchlings are my very favorite sprites in the game.  They killed the old golds.  If they kill off my seasonal hatchlings, I think I'd leave for good.  I spent years away from here after the gold fiasco.  The next might just be the end of me.

 

It's got nothing to do with nice new art.  I just wish I could keep my old sprites even  if they became unbreedable or only bred the new ones.  This is a sprite-collecting game.  Once I've collected my sprite, the site shouldn't be able to change it.

 

Even the silvers--the pose an all stayed the same, but their glow-y look doesn't suit the lineages I started with them back in the day.  I hate sprite changes more than any single thing in the whole game.  Retire the old art, even retire the old dragons.  Create new breeds with new art, and I'm with you all the way.

 

Why should I collect sprites if the site is just going to change them?  Han shot first!

Edited February 18, 2018 by Brekke

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

@olympe Yesssss to all of those, for all of those reasons! My heart swells. I'm also tempted to add Cheeses onto the list because... Just what? Honestly the Gold update doesn't really do much more justice imo because it's so far from the original, but also because the anatomy isn't great, as well as the fact that the dimorphism is drastic and makes them look like two separate dragons. The Silvers were done so nicely - they weren't completely altered, but given a [heh] polish, and anatomy touchup. That's how sprite changes should be done imo, esp because it lessens the blow for those who are big on their lineages.

 

I'm so in favour of sprite changes because DC is a sprite collectibles website. If I'm going to collect sprites, I want them to look good.

[Brekke]

If I'm going to collect sprites, I expect what I collect to stay the same.  Save new art for new dragons.  Release more dragons with new art, leave my dragons alone.

[laertid]

There are games where old sprites stay the same, and new art goes to new creatures (like Magistream). Honestly, it looks preposterous.

 

Like, the old direwolf. Did the poor creature escape right from 1995 computer RPG?

 

One of the new wolves, to compare (Borean wolf):

 

I'd like DC to stay more or less in one style, not like this.

 

 

[Brekke]

I don't.  Does someone come in mess with your coin collection?  your stamp collection?  Why should you mess with my sprite collection?  Find a way to code it so I keep mine if I want.   Find a way to code a "sprite lock" or something.

[olympe]

11 minutes ago, Brekke said:

If I'm going to collect sprites, I expect what I collect to stay the same.  Save new art for new dragons.  Release more dragons with new art, leave my dragons alone.

 

As I stated before, I'm not for drastic sprite changes, and the only drastic change I fully support is the change of the silvers because they totally needed it. (Golds needed it, too, but... well.)

However, there have been countless updates where the overall look of the sprite changed only slightly while improving a whole lot.

Just compare the old to the new on the following sites (since linking pics from the wiki doesn't work out all that well) - just scroll down and look at the sprites no longer in use:

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Horse_Dragon

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Frilled_Dragon

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Ochredrake

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Purple_Dragon (Please note that the "old male" hasn't been in the game, as in ever. Purples used to be female-only, and when the male got introduced, it was with the current sprite. But have a look at what happened to the female.)

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Dragon

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Walker_Dragon

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Whiptail_Dragon

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Walker

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Holly_Dragon

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Mistletoe_Dragon

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Split_Dragon

[laertid]

31 minutes ago, Brekke said:

I don't.  Does someone come in mess with your coin collection?  your stamp collection?  Why should you mess with my sprite collection?  Find a way to code it so I keep mine if I want.   Find a way to code a "sprite lock" or something.

 

Well, coins and stamps are another matter entirely. DC is better compared to something like Pokemon - if you transfer your Pikachu from older to new-er game, its sprite will inevitably change, there is no way to escape it.

[purplehaze]

I have no problem with careful updating of sprites in most cases. Most of the ones Olympe listed were an improvement.

 

Several of them I don't care much for. One she didn't list was the Sunset. I still don't like the "shiny" new version as much as the old. It has a whole different look. The female horse is fine, but honestly the male is just too over the top. I avoid lineages with the male as much as possible now because of that. (Sorry Lyz!) And I don;t really care for the color change that happened when the Frill was re-introduced. I think they look entirely different in lineages now and some that I had with the old ones just don't look right now. The Silvers took awhile for me to get used to, because they do look very different in some lineages, but most of the ones I had them in were still okay.

 

The Golds? I can't even see those as the same dragon. And personally I don't at all care for the updated female. She was very diminished in the new view. The Nilias? Also a very different dragon in the update.

 

In a game where lineages are really about all we can do with our dragons besides setting them up on a shelf and looking at them, I feel that sprites should never change that drastically. Some shading or anatomy corrections are acceptable if really needed, but not whole new poses and coloring that interfere with the lineages that we have spent months, sometimes years, in building.

 

 

[Saami]

Looks like I’m in the minority as well. I don’t mind sprite updates. I dislike a lot of the current sprites and it keeps me from collecting the breed beyond one or two. So if a sprite update fixes or at least diminishes the problems i have then I’m all for it. 

[Spiteful_Crow]

6 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

Honestly, I really wish there could be more sprite updates. I hate to say it but so many sprites are horrendously outdated. Seeing as new additions to the site have to be up to a certain, meticulous standard in order to be released at all, I personally find it kinda sad that sprites like the Reds and Seasonals are allowed to stay as they are. I fully understand the reasonings because lineages would look funky, but the Silvers managed to pull it off really well, and I feel like, isn't there a way to update sprites without it messing everything up? Because I feel like sprite updates are a really good thing in keeping the site looking good. Anyway, that was a derail.

 

3 hours ago, Sazandora said:

Some breeds are in a bad need of sprite update, mostly the older breeds on-site like Guardians or Nocturnes. So I must say -- more sprite updates, please!

 

No no no x1000. I'm going to be that person and jump in and say I really hate the majority of Sprite updates. Not because I'm bashing on the spriters or the art itself, necessarily, but because I love and am attached to the art as it is. If I collect a bunch of dragons, it's because I like the art, and if the art changes, that really ruins things for me.

 

I was extremely upset over the Silver and Split changes, and while I've somewhat gotten used to the Silvers (while still preferring the old ones, funky necks and all), the Splits are no longer a breed I enjoy that much. They look drastically different than they used to and I just don't like it, so I no longer really collect or breed them. The last thing I want is for this to keep happening. I'd prefer people to focus on new dragons rather than altering old ones. While I do like the majority of new breeds, the majority of them look a lot more detailed and "fancier" than the older dragons. Then people start talking about how the earlier ones look too "outdated" by comparison and need to be changed, but I like the clean, simple design of many of the older breeds. People who don't like them can just collect newer ones and leave the older breeds to those of us who appreciate them.

[Lady Dragoon]

18 minutes ago, Saami said:

Looks like I’m in the minority as well. I don’t mind sprite updates. I dislike a lot of the current sprites and it keeps me from collecting the breed beyond one or two. So if a sprite update fixes or at least diminishes the problems i have then I’m all for it. 

 

I also don't mind the updates, but I also don't mind the old sprites and just collect the dragons that I want.

 

It probably helps that I haven't really try to make much lineages so I don't have all my work destroy, so if I did I might have different opinion or I could just feel the same. I just don't know.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Lady Dragoon

[Fuzzbucket]

9 minutes ago, Spiteful_Crow said:

 I love and am attached to the art as it is. If I collect a bunch of dragons, it's because I like the art, and if the art changes, that really ruins things for me.

 

 I'd prefer people to focus on new dragons rather than altering old ones. While I do like the majority of new breeds, the majority of them look a lot more detailed and "fancier" than the older dragons. Then people start talking about how the earlier ones look too "outdated" by comparison and need to be changed, but I like the clean, simple design of many of the older breeds. People who don't like them can just collect newer ones and leave the older breeds to those of us who appreciate them.

 

Right on ! *applauds*

[RainDear]

If I buy art from any artist out there and take it home to "put on a shelf", I can buy newer and newer representations of that artist's work and have a display of how they have grown and changed over the years. Once I buy something, I would never take it back to the artist and ask for a "newer, better" one. If I have several games in a series, certainly newer ones will look different from older ones, but that won't stop me from replaying the older ones. That is pretty much the way I feel about the dragon sprites I collect. Once I have it "on my shelf" I get very upset if someone comes in and changes it for something that isn't what I brought home. I do kind of feel like someone came into my home and messed with my stuff. I live with it, but I don't like it.