Suggestions for Sweets

[Merlot]

2 hours ago, JavaTigress said:

I am a  BIT surprised TJ decided to mess with it, then. Given that I WONDER how many altsweet owners are still active players?

Well I for one am and I do not want to lose my Black Alt Sweetling PLEASE 

 

[Shroomlet]

12 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

DC never used to be like this. We don't want DC to become this. If you like it, there are many games out there that do that, do not try to force us to be okay with it here. We are slowly getting rid of exclusivity here; CB Holidays are back, Frills and Arias are back. As we see it, Alt sweets and Snow Angels are the last to big holdouts.

We do not want them because they are 'special' and we think we deserve special things too. We want them because all dragons on the site should be attainable. They are not like spriter's alts. They can, and for years, have, bred more of themselves- they are their own 'species' so to say. Maybe TJ regrets that now, but it is 8 years too late for him to try and make them like spriter's alts.

Anyway, I'm not sure how this thread got so immediately derailed from discussing possible solutions to people trying to tell people that they're not allowed to want alts and it's fine how it is.

 

I think my favorite idea that I've seen come up so far is time of day. I would prefer time of day breeding as opposed to hatching, but I do get the pros of hatching being that it is catcher-controlled and not breeder controlled.

 

Second option I like is making them like Luminas and Dark Luminas, where they're each their own species, but they can breed eachother. That, however, might be too random t be reliable for a one day a year breeding cycle. Whether we go with time of day hatching, or this, I think CB limits should be upped to 4, since otherwise people will have to choose between keeping their old CBs, and getting new. It's an awful situation for the current alt owners that some have had to decide to ditch an alt to get a pink this year.

 

Last solution is a BSA. I'm the least fond of this because people will likely turn dragons already involved in lineages, but it would probably be the easiest to implement. (and while I have a frozen I could ditch or maybe one day unfreeze to have a new CB black without messing up lines, lots of people won't, and again, CB limits should be raised).

 

Thank you for writing this out.

I agree with you on all points but one: I'd prefer time of hatching for the added control, but I can handle time of breeding with Solstices, so I'd be able to handle it with Sweetlings, too.

[Sinnarn]

17 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Anyway, I'm not sure how this thread got so immediately derailed from discussing possible solutions to people trying to tell people that they're not allowed to want alts and it's fine how it is.

Don't you think that the first step would be obtaining Kila's permission? Any discussion is a bit pointless without that, and she intended Alt Sweetlings to stay with people originally affected by the glitch.
Yes, it has been eight years now, she may have changed her mind, but you need to ask first, no?
No, I don't think it is fair for me to get both variations, I'll be happy if the change was reverses and I get no access to Pink Sweetlings. Please. Just scroll-code them back.

[RainDear]

Apparently if the debacle were "fixed" by changing all bred Sweetlings to pink, that would only be considered "fair" if all Alt owners were barred from ever having any bred Sweetlings on their scrolls, which I really don't see as fair. Or all Sweetlings including the CB Alts have to be made pink, which I wouldn't like, but apparently, it would be "fair". Yeah, right.

 

[Maniac]

I have always been a proponent of wanting both Sweetling versions on EVERYONE'S scroll. We have brought back CBs for holidays, for goodness sake.  Arias.  Frills.  The alt sweetling is the ONLY thing (minus spriter alts which I don't count) that I have never been able to obtain to have a 100% adult sprite scroll.  This is extremely disheartening that users with the alts will now be able to obtain both but those of us that never had alts to begin with are stuck with the single, regular sprite.

[Tiki G]

3 minutes ago, Sinnarn said:

Really, I'm starting to think that turning all sweetlings pink isn't that bad a suggestion. I'll be sad to lose all my prettty lineages, but at least the drama will stop and everyone will have it fair. You know, the FAIR fair.

 

This would be horrible and absolutely devastating to me, and im sure most other alt sweet owners and i would never want to see this happen. Ever.

 

 

 

I really didnt want to reply to this thread, because the whole thing is just incredibly... selfish, and it makes me sad.  But i just had to say, i would never want to lose my boys completely. That would absolutely be my final straw for this site. Just saying.

[HeatherMarie]

DC didn't used to be exclusive? Wow, that is so completely untrue that it's laughable. The *original* DC holidays were completely 100% exclusive... If you were not there for that specific drop you could *never* get that breed as CB, ever, no matter what you did. How on earth is that not exclusive? Exclusivity has been around since the very first DC holiday, so acting like this is a new thing is really not factual at all. Only in later years were (some) holiday CBs available in *any* way after the initial release, and even then only as Honorable Mention raffle prizes. It has only been very very recently that DC has moved towards becoming *less* exclusive.

 

I personally hope that the sweetling mess gets changed to how it used to be, while it's not a 'perfect' solution at least it'd be much much better then the current situation.

[Dragon_Arbock]

1 minute ago, HeatherMarie said:

DC didn't used to be exclusive? Wow, that is so completely untrue that it's laughable. The *original* DC holidays were completely 100% exclusive... If you were not there for that specific drop you could *never* get that breed as CB, ever, no matter what you did.

 

I just said why that's not exclusive.. or at least wasn't exclusive then. When you could only get two of a breed ever, it didn't matter what gen they were because you couldn't lineage build with them. Never mind that before influence, lineage building was niche and hard to do.

[HeatherMarie]

3 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

I just said why that's not exclusive.. or at least wasn't exclusive then. When you could only get two of a breed ever, it didn't matter what gen they were because you couldn't lineage build with them. Never mind that before influence, lineage building was niche and hard to do.

 

Fair enough, but lineage building is not the only reason people like CBs. Some people like the 'cave' or 'specific biome' designation on the dragon's view page, some people prefer their dragons to have no ancestors... Not everyone who prefers CBs are into it for the lineage building. 

[Tiki G]

4 minutes ago, Sinnarn said:

I absolutely don't want it to happen, but I am extremely tired of Alt Sweet drama that repeats every year. I am tired of being accused in being selfish, greedy and wanting to keep my "cash cow". I also greatly appreciate Kila's gift, and don't want it to be the center of incredibly toxic drama, as it is now. "Ditch artist's wishes, we don't care, we want this sprite" - it really makes me angry.

 

This really wasnt a problem until now though. MOST people were okay with alt sweetlings and understood what they were and why the existed and accepted it. And i really just want things to go back to he way they were and chill out.

This whole ordeal just breaks my heart. It has completely ruined any excitement i had for this year's event and anything to do with the holiday. Alt Sweetlings have been my favorite dragons for 8 years. I love my boys and I just want to keep them and their lines as they were.

[Enuescaris]

I'm kind of lost? The first post isn't really helping...

So the question is if alt sweetlings should be available for everyone?

Edited February 9, 2018 by Enuescaris

[Sinnarn]

5 minutes ago, Tiki G said:

This whole ordeal just breaks my heart. It has completely ruined any excitement i had for this year's event and anything to do with the holiday. Alt Sweetlings have been my favorite dragons for 8 years. I love my boys and I just want to keep them and their lines as they were.

I'm really sorry if my post made you feel that way I agree with you wholeheartedly and just really want the things back as they were. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Sinnarn

[Lucere]

I don't mean to suddenly interrupt the debate, but I just want to make sure I understand what has been suggested so far. 

 

So far we have the following suggestions:

1.  Revert to the way things were before this Valentine's Event. Basically, alt-coded sweetlings will always get alts, everyone else will always get pinks, i.e. one color per scroll.
2. Everyone gets access to both alt-sweetlings and pink sweetlings. This is further broken down into the following options:
   1. Everyone gets access to 2 CB alts and 2 CB pinks. Both of these variations will breed "true", i.e. pinks will only breed pinks and alts will only breed alts. Whether or not a CB sweetling will become an alt may or may not be determined by the following:
      1. A CB sweetling hatched between a certain time frame will become an alt. The same mechanic will apply to bred sweetlings (i.e. similar to the Sunrise/Sunset dragons. This will not retroactively apply to alt-sweetlings and regular pink sweetlings hatched before this event (or whenever the change is made).
   2. Alt-sweetlings will always breed true, no matter whose scroll they end up on. No new CB alt-sweetlings. 
   3. Alt-sweetlings will be bred-only, the mechanic to determine whether or not a sweetling will hatch into an alt will be time-based on when it was bred/hatched. As with option 2.1.1, this will not apply to alt-sweetlings and regular pink sweetlings that have hatched before this event (or whenever the change is made).
   4. Alt-sweetlings will be bred-only, and whether or not a bred sweetling will become an alt will be decided at random
   5. BSA option to turn a pink sweetling into an alt. One suggestion for the BSA was something about if you had a recent refusal in the breeding of any two dragons on your scroll, you could activate the BSA for a 'heartbroken' sweetling, aka the alt-sweetling.
      1. There's also an additional suggestion that this BSA be made hatchling-only so as not to ruin any lineages.
3. The nuclear option. All alt-sweetlings will now be pinks.

 

 

Was there anything else I missed? The discussion for new suggestions concerning alt-sweetlings and for whether or not we should change anything is kind of interwoven with one another in this thread. I thought it'd be nice to have one post somewhere where we can look at all our options (maybe OP can put this in the first post so everyone can see?).

 

ETA: Fixed some stuff. I think I may go back later over this post and credit some of these suggestions to the people who suggested them. I'm gonna be afk in a bit and will do this when I get back.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Lucere
Fixed some suggestions. Thanks ArielGrint!

[Enuescaris]

Thank you Lucere! That's really helpful since the discussion seems to be all over the place.

[Dragon_Arbock]

Sigh, I've been trying to say we should drop all the 'why' talk and focus on the 'how' talk, but people keep bringing up the why.

(Thanks Lucere for posting that as I type)

 

I've given my opinion on the how. Suffice to say that I think the easiest way of dealing with any of this is raising the CB limit to 4. Then whatever solution we go with doesn't make people have to throw away one of their current Sweets to get another.

 

Suffice to say, I like option 1 or 5. 2 could cause issues with trading value, is my fear. 3 and 4 would still leave people dissatisfied.

 

[SerasVahe]

2 minutes ago, Lucere said:

Alt-sweetlings will always breed true, no matter whose scroll they end up on. No new CB alt-sweetlings. 

 

This sounds like a really cool option, which leaves the CB Alt sweetlings still special

 

Putting that aside, I agree everyone needs to take a deep breath, and think about possible solutions that can be suggested. The best anyone can hope for is TJ to review these suggestions. In the end, it is his website and he makes the decisions. I am going to enjoy this holiday, I am still insanely happy for the re-release of CBs since I missed so many years.

 

Best wishes for everyone's scroll goals!

[dothefreddy]

I think the fairest solution is to have them breed like other alts. Take away the alt owners being able to have pink and black as it's just unnecessary and unfair and boom. Those who wanted a black and got a pink can trade for a pink from someone who got a black.

[ArielGrint]

12 minutes ago, Lucere said:

I don't mean to suddenly interrupt the debate, but I just want to make sure I understand what has been suggested so far. 

 

So far we have the following suggestions:

1.  Revert to the way things were before this Valentine's Event. Basically, alt-coded sweetlings will always get alts, everyone else will always get pinks, i.e. one color per scroll.
2. Everyone gets access to both alt-sweetlings and pink sweetlings. This is further broken down into the following options:
   1. Everyone gets access to 2 CB alts and 2 CB pinks. Both of these variations will breed "true", i.e. pinks will only breed pinks and alts will only breed alts.
   2. Alt-sweetlings will always breed true, no matter whose scroll they end up on. No new CB alt-sweetlings. 
   3. Alt-sweetlings will be bred-only, the mechanic to determine whether or not a sweetling will hatch into an alt will be time-based on when it was bred/hatched
   4. Alt-sweetlings will be bred-only, and whether or not a bred sweetling will become an alt will be decided at random
   5. BSA option to turn a pink sweetling into an alt. One suggestion for the BSA was something about if you had a recent refusal in the breeding of any two dragons on your scroll, you could activate the BSA for a 'heartbroken' sweetling, aka the alt-sweetling.
      1. There's also an additional suggestion that this BSA be made hatchling-only so as not to ruin any lineages.
3. The nuclear option. All alt-sweetlings will now be pinks.

Was there anything else I missed? The discussion for new suggestions concerning alt-sweetlings and for whether or not we should change anything is kind of interwoven with one another in this thread. I thought it'd be nice to have one post somewhere where we can look at all our options (maybe OP can put this in the first post so everyone can see?).

 

I don’t think 2.3 was suggested a bred-only option originally, was it? At least I do not see why it can’t apply to CBs as well, same as Sunset/Sunrise dragons or Day/Night Glory drakes? Because clearly Solstice way won’t really work anymore as that would need all CBs to be the same...

[Lucere]

Just now, ArielGrint said:

 

I don’t think 2.3 was suggested a bred-only option originally, was it? At least I do not see why it can’t apply to CBs as well, same as Sunset/Sunrise dragons or Day/Night Glory drakes? Because clearly Solstice way won’t really work anymore as that would need all CBs to be the same...

 

You're probably right. I've been skimming both this thread and the main event threat and jumping back and forth between the two, so my summary might be a little off.

 

I'll go ahead and fix it. 

[ArielGrint]

2 minutes ago, Lucere said:

 

You're probably right. I've been skimming both this thread and the main event threat and jumping back and forth between the two, so my summary might be a little off.

 

I'll go ahead and fix it. 

 

I think it might also be useful to include my suggestion for that option to not make that apply retroactively to avoid breaking a whole load of lineages... though I will admit I am not sure how this mechanic is coded, might not even be possible, hopefully it is

[Enuescaris]

2 minutes ago, ArielGrint said:

 

I think it might also be useful to include my suggestion for that option to not make that apply retroactively to avoid breaking a whole load of lineages... though I will admit I am not sure how this mechanic is coded, might not even be possible, hopefully it is

 

I think the 'hatchling BSA' suggestion might work there?

Edited February 9, 2018 by Enuescaris

[OMGitsKairi]

Crossposting my idea from another thread:

 

If this is the way things are to be, why not have the alts behave like all the other alts in the cave? Ie can be bred from other Sweetlings (Maybe

including some kind of BSA as someone else suggested, or perhaps a mix of eggs in each clutch?) That way everyone is able to collect and

enjoy both sprites, but the CBs are still kept special for those who received them. (The same way the CB alts of other breeds were either a 

glitch or a raffle prize.)

[olympe]

30 minutes ago, Lucere said:

I don't mean to suddenly interrupt the debate, but I just want to make sure I understand what has been suggested so far. 

 

So far we have the following suggestions:

1.  Revert to the way things were before this Valentine's Event. Basically, alt-coded sweetlings will always get alts, everyone else will always get pinks, i.e. one color per scroll.
2. Everyone gets access to both alt-sweetlings and pink sweetlings. This is further broken down into the following options:
   1. Everyone gets access to 2 CB alts and 2 CB pinks. Both of these variations will breed "true", i.e. pinks will only breed pinks and alts will only breed alts.
   2. Alt-sweetlings will always breed true, no matter whose scroll they end up on. No new CB alt-sweetlings. 
   3. Alt-sweetlings will be bred-only, the mechanic to determine whether or not a sweetling will hatch into an alt will be time-based on when it was bred/hatched
   4. Alt-sweetlings will be bred-only, and whether or not a bred sweetling will become an alt will be decided at random
   5. BSA option to turn a pink sweetling into an alt. One suggestion for the BSA was something about if you had a recent refusal in the breeding of any two dragons on your scroll, you could activate the BSA for a 'heartbroken' sweetling, aka the alt-sweetling.
      1. There's also an additional suggestion that this BSA be made hatchling-only so as not to ruin any lineages.
3. The nuclear option. All alt-sweetlings will now be pinks.

Was there anything else I missed? The discussion for new suggestions concerning alt-sweetlings and for whether or not we should change anything is kind of interwoven with one another in this thread. I thought it'd be nice to have one post somewhere where we can look at all our options (maybe OP can put this in the first post so everyone can see?).

 

I know that the following mechanism has been suggested for snow angels, but it might also work for sweetlings:

Rule #1: Sweetlings of any color breed true unless otherwise influenced.

Rule #2: Adult Sweetlings gain the ability to influence a Sweetling egg to hatch as their own color. (Pinks making sure a baby hatches pink, blacks making sure a baby hatches black.)

 

Problem: You need to get bred Sweetlings of the other variety in year one in order to create/continue certain lineages. Not much of a problem, IMHO, but it does take at least some dedication (like, playing for another year).

Advantages: Ability to get the variety you don't have, while still allowing for the status quo (turning the other variety into the variety your scroll was coded for) => win/win?

Plus, in later years, you'll be able to turn your own variety into the other one. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by olympe

[ArielGrint]

10 minutes ago, Enuescaris said:

I think the 'hatchling BSA' suggestion might work there?

 

I meant it for the “based on the time the egg was caught/bred” suggestion  because when Solstice wing colours were changed that was a whole big mess... I ended up with a blue wing I did not plan on at all. Now that one was only applied after 1 round of breeding has gone through, can you imagine what would happen after 7?  That would be true horror... I can imagine some very random colours popping up where they shouldn’t

 

For the BSA I do like the suggestion to make it a hatchling one, even though that would be a first! Or maybe make it irreversible and only available to dragon laid past a certain date... that should hopefully solve some of the issues/concerns(this is only for if BSAs for hatchies are a big no-no or simply impossible to implement)

Edited February 9, 2018 by ArielGrint

[HeatherMarie]

1 minute ago, olympe said:

 

I know that the following mechanism has been suggested for snow angels, but it might also work for sweetlings:

Rule #1: Sweetlings of any color breed true unless otherwise influenced.

Rule #2: Adult Sweetlings gain the ability to influence a Sweetling egg to hatch as their own color. (Pinks making sure a baby hatches pink, blacks making sure a baby hatches black.)

 

Problem: You need to get bred Sweetlings of the other variety in year one in order to create/continue certain lineages. Not much of a problem, IMHO, but it does take at least some dedication (like, playing for another year).

Advantages: Ability to get the variety you don't have, while still allowing for the status quo (turning the other variety into the variety your scroll was coded for) => win/win?

 

Imo this is the best idea I've seen. I like the breeding-true *unless otherwise influenced*, so people who have alts can get more alts and people who want alternating-color lineages can influence the desired egg and... It seems like the most win/win idea I've seen.

 

I still don't honestly believe mass-distribution of the alts is something that really needs to happen, despite the fuss that's been made, but if it were to happen that seems the best option so far.