Change Sunrise/Sunset hatch times.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I know this has been a thing for a long time, but I recently started working with Sunrises and the thought occurred to me. Currently there are 12 hours in a day during which the egg cannot hatch at all. Why is this? The current hatch times don't even really match sunrise and sunset, so why are these the times?

6 am to 12 pm- flawed because the sun can rise before 6 am, depending on latitude, longitude and season, and certainly isn't rising near 12 pm (normal range would be 4:30 to 8:30)

6 pm to 12 am- flawed because sun can set earlier than 6 pm (normal range, 4:30 to 9:30), again affected by the same conditions.

 

So if the current times are already way out of the range for sunrise and sunset, why not just make the hatching times longer?

Perhaps 4 am to 1 pm and 4 pm to 1 am? (1 pm being closer to 'solar noon', average between 11:30 and 1:30).

This would at least reduce unhatchable times to 8 hours instead of 12.

 

Edit, just an addendum, before anyone says it- this world would have a tilt and variation in sunrise and sunset times. It has seasons.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Dragon_Arbock

[Tears in Rain]

Ehhh, idk, the times always seemed fine to me  I wouldn't be opposed to a change, simply coz the whole thing isn't very important to me, but I don't think it's really necessary  

[HeatherMarie]

I wouldn't mind increasing the times they can be hatched, because 12 hours where they can't hatch at all is definitely a bit much, but I don't really think 'they don't match sunrise/sunset times' is a good argument for it. The sun will rise and set at different times depending on the time of year and the location, always, so there is simply no possible way to make the times in the game actually match when our sun rises and sets in any sort of way. I'd support the 4-1, 4-1 times, but those times aren't any more accurate towards our sun's actual times then the current times are. 

[Dragon_Arbock]

I would suggest having a variable time depending on the DC world, but that would probably be too confusing. The idea was just to increase the range so it wouldn't be as ridiculously long between hatching times.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Why not:

Sunrise: 12 am- 11:59 am

Sunset: 12 pm- 11:59 pm

 

Just my two thoughts 🤷

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Have to disagree with this one. This one is about game mechanics and the current mechanics are set to the day/night cycle of the game clock. It really doesn't have anything to do with actual sunrise/sunset and everything to do with the day/night game clock.. when the clock shows the sun, it's day and surises will hatch, if the moon is showing, it's night and the sunsets will hatch. It's simple and easy to remember. Before the clock was added, I froze a Nocturne hatchling to remind me when it was day/night in the game.. it's name is Day Brown Night Blue, and I haven't had a problem with the day/night game cycle since.

[Dragon_Arbock]

Eh, matching the in-game clock doesn't really explain why it doesn't hatch for 12 hours of the day, though. If that's the case, why not have it hatch Sunrise at 6 am to 5:59 pm, and Sunset from 6 pm to 5:59 am? Honestly the answer is because it's not the 'Day/Night' dragon, but then it bothers me that it doesn't really match realistic sunrise and sunset times.

[LadyLyzar]

Speaking as the concept creator for the Sunrises and Sunsets - the hatching mechanic fits the breed.  The eggs require some sun exposure to hatch regardless of breed - the absorbed solar energy give the hatchling strength to break out.  As such, they won't hatch at night.

 

Sunrises rely on solar energy to feed - it sustains them like charging a battery.  As such, they don't have to eat as much as other dragons do.  A brand new hatchling does need some solar energy to kickstart its system, but too much right after hatching would overwhelm its system and kill it.  They have to adjust to get used to the more intense periods where they absorb the most sun.  That is why they hatch as the sun is rising, and will not hatch in the evening or during the heat of the day (noon to late afternoon is typically the hottest part of a day).

 

Sunsets work differently.  Rather than using solar energy to feed, they store some up to use later.  They emit bright light to temporarily blind nocturnal creatures so they can easily kill and eat them - they don't have a lot of natural armor or offensive weapons to aid in taking down prey.  A new hatchling will not emerge until the sun is going down or has passed completely - just like Sunrises, too much energy can kill them and they are more vulnerable to an excess of solar energy than Sunrises are.  However, if too much time has passed since the egg was last exposed to the sun, the hatchling will not have enough strength to successfully emerge from its egg.

 

I'm in the keep it simple camp, myself.  6 hours of each slot divides nicely and you won't have to track changing seasons.  It would make sense for the Sunrise period to be longer in summer and Sunsets to be shorter (due to length of days) - and vice versa in the Winter - but I think that makes a somewhat complicated mechanic even more so.  Also, no size for the world of DC has been given, so we don't even know what part of the planet its on, and what time sunrise/sunset would even occur.  Sunrises and Sunsets can be found all over the world, so an adjustment for placement on the planet would be even more complicated!

[Whirlaway]

The Sunrise is much more of a pain to hatch, especially being in Pacific Time Zone (three hours behind DC time) than the Sunset for me. I have to hide a Sunrise/set egg so it will go into an ER state, wake up early and hope the egg will hatch in time. One of the few times I wish DC wasn't on Eastern Time, haha!

Edited January 22, 2018 by Dorchet

[Dragon_Arbock]

Honestly, the Sunrises have very awkward times. I get wanting to keep a 6 and 6 hour balance, but most people are at work or school when Sunrises can hatch- which means you have to leave it unfogged and hope it doesn't get sick.

You'll probably say no, but 6 am to 5:59 pm for Sunrises would be more accessible (and Sunsets could keep their 6 pm to 12 pm slot).

[The Dragoness]

I agree that Sunrises can be a bit frustrating to hatch. I can't always unfog the egg after midnight and then fog it again before 6pm. It took me three days to successfully hatch my most recent Sunrise egg.

 

But, with that being said, it's nice to hear from the concept creator and get a feel for why things are this way. I'm not against the current mechanics. 

[purplehaze]

I see no compelling reason to change their hatching behavior. It is kind of nice to have something that requires a little more thought than just throwing it in a hatchery and forgetting it. Thank you Lyz, for explaining the reasoning behind it.

[HeatherMarie]

Well after reading the actual creator's reasons behind the mechanic, I'm definitely against any sort of major change here. Expanding the rise/set hatching hours by an hour or something wouldn't be too disruptive, but it sounds like Sunrises hatching in the middle of the day simply goes against their mechanics and abilities (since too much sun right away will harm it).

[Fuzzbucket]

8 hours ago, purplehaze said:

I see no compelling reason to change their hatching behavior. It is kind of nice to have something that requires a little more thought than just throwing it in a hatchery and forgetting it. Thank you Lyz, for explaining the reasoning behind it.

 

This. I see no reason to change it.

[Dragon_Arbock]

The reason I had, with all due respect, is that it can be hard to be around for a 6 hour window. For example, the only way I can hatch Sunrises is to ward them, throw them in a hatchery before I go to bed, and hope ward lasts long enough for them to not die. Obviously, this is more or less only a problem for certain timezones or work schedules, but it's not desirable when it is.

[Ruby Eyes]

They don't really die that easily, in my experience. If it's not their hatching window yet but they are already ER, I'd give them their ER views until they start cracking, then take them out of all ERs and put them into a slow-going non-auto-ER hatchery instead (AoND or Evina's work for that) where they can safely gather their remaining stats until their hatching time comes. They may get sick, but they usually survive (even without Ward).

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

Yeah, but still, that’s really inconvenient. They may not die too easily but you can have them in hatching purgatory for literal hours and imo that’s super annoying. Time zones can screw a lot of us non-Americans over, like Dragon_arbock stated, and a lot of us have work schedules and personal things which can prevent us from being around. I guess it makes sense that they hatch around morning and evening, but 12 hours is a really large gap, and I support this suggestion because I too would like to see it changed.

[Ruby Eyes]

I'm not american either, and the gap is only 6 hours each. It's not like you have to wait 12 hours all at once.

I'm not saying "it's how it is, deal with it", I'm just saying there are ways to deal with it to make it less annoying.

(At least you don't really need to be online to watch them hatch - I find the Spirit Ward glowy stages in the Encyclopedia unlocks way trickier to do.)

Edited January 22, 2018 by Ruby Eyes

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm on cave time half the year and GMT the other half. I've never had any trouble with this.

 

And yes, unlocking the spirit wards was hell. In the end I got fed up and just stayed up all one night to complete

[HeatherMarie]

I'm 2-3 hours behind DC time (depending on daylight savings), which isn't as bad as some people but it does mean making sure to get up by 8am for Sunrises so I can shove them into ERs and they'll have an hour to hatch (a few times I've woken up like 10 minutes before the hatching window closed, that didn't work out so well). It's annoying, definitely, I don't think anyone would argue with that. But it's not impossible, and if you miss the window one day you can try again the next day (I often do that). Or, if really needed, you could ask a friend who's actually available at that time to add the egg to some ERs for you (I've also done that). 

 

Honestly there are a lot of things in DC that sort of screw people in vastly different timezones (holiday drops ending at DC-midnight, which is often when many people can't be online to enjoy the last few hours, or new releases that mass-drop only while many people are asleep). I see no huge reason to change this and this only.

[Dragon_Arbock]

Just a few last comments, to address some things.

@LadyLyzar Looking back over things, none of what you gave as reasons are in the encyclopedia. Nothing about the solar energy feeding or too much sun being dangerous to hatchlings. There would have been no way for me to know this otherwise, so maybe see about getting that info added?

Also, as far as too much sun killing them- the egg is in a cave. I would imagine it would not be hard to move an egg out of direct sunlight so it could hatch in the afternoon, but that's just my opinion. They can already hatch at right about at noon, even though you said they wouldn't typically, so.. eh it's just odd.

 

As a last idea, would a Light-elemented magically inclined dragon be able to mimic sunlight and have a BSA to hatch an egg outside of its window? (perhaps kingcrown). It would be something that wouldn't involve changing the actual hatch hours otherwise.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Dragon_Arbock

[Fuzzbucket]

LOADS of creator-given information isn't in the encyclopaedia. You can see some - though not this - in the wiki. When you look at the requests threads and see all the info discussed in there - it simply wouldn't be practical. Lady L has told us how this mechanic arose, and that's good enough for me. Also, though, this and other strange mechanics wouldn't  have been there if the creator hadn't specified them so I always assume there's a reason. I don't know how a load of things in real life happen either, but they do, so I learn to live with them.

[Ruby Eyes]

BSA sounds good - but shouldn't it be two dragons, to influence which kind of sun* the little one hatches as? Risensong and Setsong could do that.

[Dragon_Arbock]

10 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

BSA sounds good - but shouldn't it be two dragons, to influence which kind of sun* the little one hatches as? Risensong and Setsong could do that.

 

Hm, maybe, they are also noted to have magical abilities- although it does say their magic is strongest at their respective times.

Would be curious to hear more opinions about if that detail would matter.

[Ruby Eyes]

Most other light-aligned breeds depend on the moon or the stars, or they just reflect existing sun.

 

Narratively, I could imagine a Risensong or Setsong to be told to "charge" their power during the day (morning and evening) and then weave a spell with that charge around the egg like an artifical sun, allowing it to hatch as if the sun were just rising/setting even if it's not. You can tell the dragon at any time during the day or night, but its actual activity will happen during their peak time, even in your absence. One day later, the egg will be charged (or rather surrounded in its artifical sun shell) and is ready to hatch as soon as it's down to 4 days and has enough views.

It would mean a preparation time of one day so you couldn't really use it last-minute, but usually you know in advance if you won't be able to log on during a specific time of DC day to guide a sun* egg's hatching at regular times.

 

The Risen-/Setsong's cooldown period would actually be a warmup

Edited January 23, 2018 by Ruby Eyes