ANSWERED:Don’t reduce holiday clutch sizes

[angelicdragonpuppy]

TJ mentioned in another thread that, in light of how full the holiday AP keeps getting, he was thinking about reducing the probabilities of breeding huge clutches.

 

This is something of a preemptive appeal to not do so. Personally I love the stuffed AP, and aside from that, I’d hate to see the amount of super nice lines hitting the AP be lowered, even if it’s a relatively small decrease.

 

I’ve already seen some during Halloween vowing they’d stop breeding some of their least wanted lines to help with this, so I think adjustment might happen naturally from the user base itself. I also still think creating a seperate holiday AP so people aren’t forced to either only hunt holidays for two weeks (or watch regular dragons behind the wall die) would remove a lot of the concerns there are about a full AP. 

[Fuzzbucket]

Support.

 

Support, support support.

 

PLEASE do not do this.

[CCPhoenix]

Agreed. I LOVE when the AP is stuffed with holiday dragons! The lines you cget are superb. I also love that people get excited when lines they never thought they'd get appear BECAUSE they clutch size is sometimes so big. 

[Sazandora]

Support. Holiday dragons breed true only once a year, so there's NO reason to reduce the amount of eggs they produce during their respective holidays. The holiday wall in the AP doesn't last forever, after all.

[LibbyLishly]

All the support.

 

The AP wall is, to my mind, a wonderful part of each Holiday event, and a great wrap-up to the whole celebration. Until holiday eggs actually start dying because the user base isn't picking them up in time, I don't want that to see the multiclutches reduced.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

9 minutes ago, LibbyLishly said:

All the support.

 

The AP wall is, to my mind, a wonderful part of each Holiday event, and a great wrap-up to the whole celebration. Until holiday eggs actually start dying because the user base isn't picking them up in time, I don't want that to see the multiclutches reduced.

 

It is reassuring to know that, despite going on over ten years now, we’ve never hit that point

 

Honesty I was expecting the Christmas wall to last longer—kinda sad it didn’t!

[purplehaze]

All my support!

 

I have gotten some awesome dragons from that wall in the AP -- ones that I could never hope to trade for. With all the new CBs (especially the Hollies) I expect to see even more great lineages there in the future. I see no compelling argument to reduce the multiclutch ability and I think it would make AP hunting very disappointing during the holiday period. Probably the majority of holiday eggs there would be the messy lineages that no one wants unless they are looking for something to freeze. People will still breed their nice holidays, but if the one egg they produce is something they want to keep, or can trade for something they need, then there will be no egg abandoned. Of course there will always be some people who breed just to abandon, but over all there will be far fewer good eggs out there.

[Jazeki]

Support. I am still meh about keeping multiple eggs from celestials, but I really do not want multiclutches removed or reduced now that we have holiday CBs. I believe that more people benefit from the extra eggs without having to resort to waiting to trade for or be gifted holiday offspring from a pairing they need or want. So many people have a better chance at 2nd gen altkin or prizekin or hollies (especially after this past year) when they have more than one egg. I agree that the userbase will naturally scale their breeding back accordingly now that we have holiday biomes in place. 

 

Looking at my own holiday offspring, not many dragons make it to adulthood or are even bred the following year, so I don't think that the holiday wall is as much of a problem as we think. And they only breed once a year. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Jazeki
grammar

[Amazon_warrior]

Support.  I believe I already saw self-limiting behaviour by the userbase this Christmas just gone.  Now that CBs have been re-released, there isn't a "need" to breed everything plus the kitchen sink "to help others", so I suspect many people didn't (barring people who do that anyway, at any time of year - and even those messies have their fans), mostly only breeding nicer lines or lineages they personally wanted to keep.

[olympe]

Full support from me, too. I love the holiday AP, and was surprised at how fast it was gone this Winter Holiday Event. Even with CB eggs available again, many of us will be mostly at our limits for those anyway, so all we can do is breed and stalk the AP.

[JavaTigress]

I think it would sadden me if holiday clutches were reduced.

 

For me it is part of what sets them apart from other dragons, as I wasn't around at the point when ALL dragons were capable of multiclutching. I didn't collect as many lined eggies this year as I was hunting for the CB re releases, but somehow it was cool to look in the AP and see it full of Holidays! Sort of sentimental about it, I guess, BUT.. I want to add my voice to those that prefer it as it is. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by JavaTigress

[Terces]

Support. Since Holiday breeding only happens a few weeks each year, I don't mind the holiday AP wall at all. I enjoy raising as many as I can before the AP is emptied out, and am always a little disappointed when they're all gone.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

No problem with the holiday AP and multiclutches.. I stalk the AP during the entire event.

 

What I would like to see is TWO AP's during events.. one for event eggs and one for normal eggs.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

4 minutes ago, Cinnamin Draconna said:

No problem with the holiday AP and multiclutches.. I stalk the AP during the entire event.

 

What I would like to see is TWO AP's during events.. one for event eggs and one for normal eggs.

I second this. I'm not a huge fan of breeding and making checkers from holidays (except Witchlights and Garlands) so most of the time my scroll stays empty unless I'm picking up low time eggs 

[Imago]

Full support. Hunting for pretty lineages in the holiday wall is my favorite activity on DC.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

12 minutes ago, Cinnamin Draconna said:

No problem with the holiday AP and multiclutches.. I stalk the AP during the entire event.

 

What I would like to see is TWO AP's during events.. one for event eggs and one for normal eggs.

 

7 minutes ago, Dalek Raptor said:

I second this. I'm not a huge fan of breeding and making checkers from holidays (except Witchlights and Garlands) so most of the time my scroll stays empty unless I'm picking up low time eggs 

 

It's probably going to be evident where I stand regarding this topic  The clogging of the AP during holidays bugs me, especially because most of them are from messy lineages and I find CBs far more desirable. Were the multi-clutch sizes to stay the same, however, these suggestions are good. I don't know how difficult it would be to filter all Holidays into a separate biome - I imagine not very? - so that would be an good compromise if the multi-clutch sizes were to not be reduced.

[JavaTigress]

13 minutes ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

 

 

It's probably going to be evident where I stand regarding this topic  The clogging of the AP during holidays bugs me, especially because most of them are from messy lineages and I find CBs far more desirable. Were the multi-clutch sizes to stay the same, however, these suggestions are good. I don't know how difficult it would be to filter all Holidays into a separate biome - I imagine not very? - so that would be an good compromise if the multi-clutch sizes were to not be reduced.

ACTUALLY, I would be MORE in favor of a second AP that was JUST for holiday eggies than for reducing their numbers.

THAT way, people that wanted them could hunt them.... and others who were more interested in other stuff could look for that ,too. Win-win, as far as I can see?

 

I mean.... during the holiday seasons, we already get to have holiday biomes just for those eggs, so why NOT an AP for them, too?

This'd be my prefered solution, I think?

Edited January 17, 2018 by JavaTigress

[VixenDra]

Atm holidays breed WORSE than the ultra rare Gold is!

 

If they are to still breed just once a year, the multiclutch of the minimal maximum being 4 is an ABSOLUTE MUST.

C'mon...

My PB Gold pair has WAY more offspring than my holidays of the same age(which is most of my holidays atm; well, they can't have more than 8 and I can't see any with 8... really wanna turn it to max 2?!)... even than the pair that is 2 years older than those Golds (Graves, my oldest and most productive holiday pair, probably ever if things don't improve in the game) has less offspring than those Golds (really wanna make it max 4?!) (and those Golds feel like hardly ever producing when I breed them). Holidays behaving like ever rarer than "the rarest dragon in cave"? It's beyond wrong already... I won't even mention the comparison with Silvers, the supposedly 2nd rarest... Plz NO!

 

Alternatively, let them breed the whole December/February/October respectively to compensate (or 2 weeks before and 2 weeks after the very holiday), with a regular 1 week cooldown, so with good timing one can breed 4 or even 5 eggs a year for themselves, multiclutch or not (though they still should produce multis to balance them out in breeding with other ultra-rares).

They could stop taking the AP priority too, except for the week before the holiday or at all, or the AP could have a holiday "room" just like there's a holiday biome.

 

NO to even less holidays you can breed from your pairs:/ NO to freakin' Golds breeding WAY better than holidays - which they already do.

 

Also, the Store could include a potion that makes your holidays breed more times a year, either within some period or anytime of the year, could make them breed 1 egg instead of a multiclutch if necessary, but the regular breedign persiod should still produce clutches.

Even them out at least so they aren't rarer than the ultra-rare Golds anymore!

Edited January 17, 2018 by VixenDra

[Fuzzbucket]

36 minutes ago, VixenDra said:

Atm holidays breed WORSE than the ultra rare Gold is!

 

 

?

 

They ALWAYS produce in season.

[Starscream]

I would support a slight reduction from max 4 to max 3. An if people insist on breeding everything on their scroll during, it will only get worse as time goes on.

 

And Holidays ALWAYS produce during season. So not sure where you are getting that they breed worse.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

14 minutes ago, Starscream said:

I would support a slight reduction from max 4 to max 3. An if people insist on breeding everything on their scroll during, it will only get worse as time goes on.

 

And Holidays ALWAYS produce during season. So not sure where you are getting that they breed worse.

 

She means that they’re scarcer breeding wise than metals, because in theory you could breed a gold all year and get a dozen golds, but one holiday can only produce four eggs a year max.

 

Doesn’t feel that way in practice (holidays are easy to get), but it’s true in terms of specific lines.

 

I still want a 4 egg max. If this has to happen (I don’t think it does, and don’t want it to), then just lower the odds of 4 egg clutches a little, but don’t remove it entirely.

[VixenDra]

47 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

?

 

They ALWAYS produce in season.

 

yah, 4 eggs a year MAX (and that if you're lucky, you can as well end up with 1 per pair.. oh WAIT you can't keep more than 1 anyway! ofc unless you get aid from others) - that's WAY MORE than the ultra-rareGolds can breed true per year *sarcasm*

 

simple lineup, since in-text is incomfortable to follow:

2-year old Gold couple: http://dragcave.net/progeny/OPSSc

vs

2-year old holiday couple(with most offspring): http://dragcave.net/progeny/paE0T

 

not to mention vs (2-year olds too) Silver couple: http://dragcave.net/progeny/3r0r1  or Gold Tinsel couple: http://dragcave.net/progeny/BiA8N

plus I wasn't THAT persistent on breeding those shinies lately while I never skipped a holiday breeding.

 

 

If AP is your concern, no auto APing of the multiclutch or a full month of regular breeding would reduce the AP overfill.

In general, so far, user-made fearful predictions against some changes were so far proving false as the respective changes were introduced (including my own of CB Snows blocking the holiday biome compeltely due to CB breed limit - though in normal circumstances it WOULD do that, TJ did find a way to achieve the opposite - empty biome, and without cancelling the breed limits(to my horror); if only did he make more total eggs spawn per drop the biome would both move and not get empty so much). Don't let such fears paralise things.

Edited January 17, 2018 by VixenDra

[JavaTigress]

9 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

 

She means that they’re scarcer breeding wise than metals, because in theory you could breed a gold all year and get a dozen golds, but one holiday can only produce four eggs a year max.

 

Doesn’t feel that way in practice (holidays are easy to get), but it’s true in terms of specific lines.

 

I still want a 4 egg max. If this has to happen (I don’t think it does, and don’t want it to), then just lower the odds of 4 egg clutches a little, but don’t remove it entirely.

I get where VixenDra is coming from ( Although I DO have pairs of shinies that stubbornly REFUSE to produce for me.... SO I also see where those that don't see them as breeding worse than metals are coming from also!) and I DO question the wisdom of cutting holiday breeding back TOO much IF it is going to be only once a year ( AND ASSUMING that CB holiday Biome ISN"T a repeat thing in years to come! Even IF it is, people may want to hunt for mates for things, once they have their limit of CBs.) 

[olympe]

@VixenDra: Lucky you. I've got that one gold/magma pair I bred all year, and they have yet to give me a single shiny. https://dragcave.net/progeny/sbixP I'd have loved to get even that one, even if it was one out of 4 from a multi-clutch! (Yes, I tried swapping the mate every once in a while. No eggs/no interest.)

[VixenDra]

7 minutes ago, olympe said:

@VixenDra: Lucky you. I've got that one gold/magma pair I bred all year, and they have yet to give me a single shiny. https://dragcave.net/progeny/sbixP I'd have loved to get even that one, even if it was one out of 4 from a multi-clutch! (Yes, I tried swapping the mate every once in a while. No eggs/no interest.)

It has very few even Magma offpring as for such a long and persistent breedings you say (my 2-year old Magma pair: https://dragcave.net/progeny/TeZXV). Trios breed like ultra-rares too (probably became ones) but it looks strangely few still. And ofc Fertility should never be forgotten in such projects. But interspecies pairings are definitely less measureable than purebred, since 2 breeds are competing to pass to the offspring. Still, most of peristently bred (at least true) Golds would end up with more Gold offspring than any holiday can possibly do no matter how hard and persistently you try - because the game won't even let you try. And don't forget the holidays don't always produce multiple eggs in season... the gauarantee is of just ONE egg, 4 is a chance only, even with Fertility. Per year a holiday breeds less holidays than Gold Golds if both are bred to the full potential the year gives. I don't think my Golds are anyhow more fertile than an average one... I'm so used to the no egg result on them it's not even funny yet still they have multiple times more offspring than same-age holidays even can.