Jump to content
RealWilliamShakespeare

Grab multiple clutch eggs

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I did suggest that you get the CHOICE every time you breed a celestial. Keep all the eggs and the other dragon has a month's cooldown, or only keep one and they can breed again in a week as usual....

 

Yes, but that still runs into the problem of my second point: Owners of special dragons *choosing* to always breed them to Celestials *and* keep all the eggs, in which case *none* of those eggs are going to the AP. Even if only a tiny percentage of, say, CB Prize winners do this, that's still a maximum of *forty-eight* 2nd-gens (4 eggs per breeding, one breeding a month, assuming best-case scenario with breeding results) that are being produced *per Prize* but not available in any way to anyone else. I'm totally all about users being able to do what they want with their own dragons, but they shouldn't be able to *also* control every single multi-clutch egg that is ever produced, especially when we are talking about something so few people actually have access to. The entire purpose of multi-clutches is to 'spread the love', so it seems completely counterproductive to allow someone to always keep every single egg from every single multi-clutch, regardless of the cooldown 'compromise'. 

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I did suggest that you get the CHOICE every time you breed a celestial. Keep all the eggs and the other dragon has a month's cooldown, or only keep one and they can breed again in a week as usual....

 

But please make it so that you have to choose before attempting the breeding. Or it will go like this:

Breed. You get more than one rare. Take both, for a month of no breeding.

or:

Breed. You get one rare, max. Take the one, abandon the common eggs. Have another quadruple try next week. :/

Share this post


Link to post

Even with the choice, what happens if you get a refusal, no interest, or no egg? You just wasted a month of breeding for your favorite rare? Or am I understanding that both TJ's and fuzz's suggestions of a lenghty cool down only happen if the breeding is successful (as Olympe mentions).

Share this post


Link to post

Well, then you'd better be prepared to deal with waiting for a month - if you made the choice to "keep all resulting eggs". Bad luck does happen, after all... And refusals don't happen if you remember to use fertility first, do they?

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, olympe said:

And refusals don't happen if you remember to use fertility first, do they?

They can, although it's probably very rare. I have had two -- both involving Turpentines, so maybe not relevant to this discussion. Still, it can happen.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Jazeki said:

Even with the choice, what happens if you get a refusal, no interest, or no egg? You just wasted a month of breeding for your favorite rare? Or am I understanding that both TJ's and fuzz's suggestions of a lenghty cool down only happen if the breeding is successful (as Olympe mentions).

Well..with summoning, for example, the cool down holds whether the attempt was successful or not. Ditto on weekly normal breedings, so I assume that it'd still be in place for this as well in event that NO eggs are produced. As Olympe pointed out(as I understand the suggestion)you have the option NOT to roll the dice for extra eggs. If you CHOOSE to gamble, you ought to allow for the possibility of bad luck. And, as I see it, that is what it would be...a gamble. Even IF you get multiple eggs, no guarentee of ANY rares, in any case.

Edited by JavaTigress

Share this post


Link to post

Ok, thanks all for the clarification! It hasn't changed my stance, but I still wanted to make sure that I was understanding correctly.

Share this post


Link to post

You know! Given that we aren't Guaranteed even ONE egg from a breeding(specially not with rares)let alone more...I wonder what the odds of a Celestial clutch yielding more than one rare are.

Share this post


Link to post

However, the Celestial breeding thing could cause problems not only for golds and silvers, but also for other rare dragons. Trios, Xenos, Zyus, Coppers, Blusangs, Prizes... you get the idea.

Edited by olympe

Share this post


Link to post
29 minutes ago, olympe said:

However, the Celestial breeding thing could cause problems not only for golds and silvers, but also for other rare dragons. Trios, Xenos, Zyus, Coppers, Blusangs, Prizes... you get the idea.

Right. 

 

Which is why I am unsure I support the idea at all EXCEPT if it were a majors gamble to use it.

(Example a lengthy cool down for the Celestials mate if the option to keep more than one egg is invoked ahead of time.)

Edited by JavaTigress

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, JavaTigress said:

 

Which is why I am unsure I support the idea at all EXCEPT if it were a majors gamble to use it.

(Example a lengthy cool down for the Celestials mate if the option to keep more than one egg is invoked ahead of time.)

Exactly.

 

The way I envision this is the breeder decides beforehand if they want to gamble to keep a full clutch and put the mate on a full month cooldown along with the Celestial, or keep with the tradition of grabbing just one egg and sending the rest of the clutch to the AP,  freeing the mate to breed again next week if they desire. If no interest is nshown even if they have to pay the full month cooldown, bummer, guess you'll have to wait a month to try again. Once in a while you might luck out and get a handful of rares that you can keep or trade, but based on ratios and averages of successful breedings, that would not be a common occurrence. 

Share this post


Link to post

This still leaves us with holiday breedings. After all, there are still people who don't want their eggs on anybody else's scroll...

I don't know what to suggest to help out here, because I'm pretty much not okay with the same "trade-off" for holidays. Because they only breed true once a year, there's a huge difference between getting one egg out of them or getting up to four, three of which you could trade for bloodswaps (or whatever).

Share this post


Link to post

I'm definitely not okay with the same mechanic being applied to Holidays at all. 

Share this post


Link to post

And that's another reason I don't really like this idea. Imo a suggestion that needs specific exceptions to be implemented in order for it to work just shouldn't be implemented at all. In this case, implementing the ability to grab all eggs from a Celestial breeding would *have* to come with a "holiday breedings excluded" clause, because that *definitely* would not be good. 

Share this post


Link to post

That sounds like a matter of perspective, really. Considering TJ mentioned he's willing to consider celestial and holiday clutches differently, I'd say this idea should remain solely "grab multiple clutch eggs from celestials due to their different breeding method" rather than the flipside which is "grab multiple eggs from any multiclutch breeding, holidays excluded (aka excluding 99% of clutch breeds)". If we get any more non-holidays that can multiclutch that issue can be tabled until it actually happens.

 

And anyway holiday cooldowns are either 1 week or 358 days, depending on your perspective. Definitely nothing like celestials. If we do get a breeding update, an adjustment to the help page for regular/non-holiday and holiday multiclutches should be easy.

 

The "infertility" bsa/action idea for stopping multiclutches sounds like an okay compromise with TJ's thoughts that there are too many eggs in the holiday AP and people who want to keep any and all breedings on their own scroll. It's not very fitting to the spirit of whatever holiday, but with CBs returned the majority of holiday lineages will be much more available for gifting, trading or breeding. Spriters' alts are, IMO, sort of a user-made demand and if some spriters prefer to keep their lineages to themselves, well, that's their decision, and prizes will get more and more common every year, also increasing the chance of holiday eggs with prize parents in the ap despite some people using "infertility".

 

I have no opinion on whether the choice to keep multiclutches from celestials should be made before or after breeding, but if TJ decides on no choice at all for whether you get to keep multiple or not (and therefore no choice on the mate's cooldown length), I would rather Celestial breeding stay the same as now, at the least for celes x non-celes breedings.

 

Also, right now people can already affect metal ratios even more by breeding celestial x metal four times a month, so the grabbing multiple eggs from a clutch option is actually less appealing when right now I have 16 breeding chances for a metal in a month from a single metal parent, versus the chance for 4 together in a month when I probably don't even have that many eggslots open ever. I've had a few multi-metal breedings including a 3-silvers and 4-coppers clutch, but way more no-egg or celestial-only clutches. Therefore "grab the clutch" is actually less ratio-affecting than what we have now, when we dump any extra metals into the AP for anyone to grab, and okay wow this suggestion is a lot more situational than it sounded like at first.

Share this post


Link to post

@Shadowdrake The thing is, you have to talk about breeding Celestials and holidays together, because- what happens if you breed a holiday and celestial together during a holiday breeding window? If something is implemented where you get to keep all of the eggs from a Celestial breeding, something else needs to be coded to stop that from happening with celestial x holiday pairings.

 

And yes, people can still affect ratios by breeding metals to celestials now, but there's no incentive to do it right now, like there would be if you could take more than one shiny thing at a time.

 

I also don't think we need an infertility BSA. Next thing people are going to be complaining that Vampire bites have a chance to be rejected cause they don't want to share.

Share this post


Link to post

@Dragon_Arbock That would fall under holiday breeding with all their special rules that they already have. I assume TJ can make holiday breedings override celestial ones the same way he makes holiday breedings always multiclutch, always breed holiday eggs, and never refuse.

 

Like I said, there's even less incentive to grab a clutch when breeding with shinies with the proposed cooldown of 1 month for non-celestial breeds, because that's a full month of cooldown that your cb gold is now on. And there's plenty of incentive now, considering you're much more likely to get a shiny for trade or whatever with 4 egg chances a week instead of the regular 1.

 

 

I can't see much upside for this either, but people do like lineages, and it's a lot more annoying when you work hard on a celestial-based lineage and only get to keep one egg max per month when you're done.

Share this post


Link to post

@Shadowdrake Well that's only if the 'mate goes on month cooldown too' thing is implemented- and while it would be needed for balance, I don't think it makes much lore sense.

And I suppose there's some incentive, but do you think most prize owners would want to be doing that now since they can only take one and may end up with more that go to the AP? That's missed trading opportunity to them.

 

And if you're working on a lineage, you won't be keeping more than one egg from a pairing anyway, due to inbreeding, unless you intend to trade said egg.

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe I'm not understanding the whole incentive/non-incentive discussion, but I'd think there would be a pretty big incentive to breed special dragons to celestials if you could keep all eggs, even if that special dragon was then on cooldown for a month. I mean, the way it is now, you can breed a single special dragon to a celestial 4 times each month, with four different chances of getting *up to* four eggs each time. But breedings don't always produce any eggs at all. It's just as likely that you'll only get one successful breeding out of that pair in that month, and right now you can only keep one egg from that one successful breeding. With this suggestion, you could keep *four* eggs from that once-a-month successful breeding. So yeah, definite incentive.

Share this post


Link to post
50 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

. With this suggestion, you could keep *four* eggs from that once-a-month successful breeding. So yeah, definite incentive.

That's assuming that the Celestial and its mate not only produced eggs, but produced the maximum 4-egg clutch. The keep-clutch option should be just as susceptible to no-interest and no-egg results as any other non-holiday pair, which is what makes it a gamble to put your special mate on a month-long cooldown. Otherwise, I would not support this at all.

Share this post


Link to post
50 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

Maybe I'm not understanding the whole incentive/non-incentive discussion, but I'd think there would be a pretty big incentive to breed special dragons to celestials if you could keep all eggs, even if that special dragon was then on cooldown for a month. I mean, the way it is now, you can breed a single special dragon to a celestial 4 times each month, with four different chances of getting *up to* four eggs each time. But breedings don't always produce any eggs at all. It's just as likely that you'll only get one successful breeding out of that pair in that month, and right now you can only keep one egg from that one successful breeding. With this suggestion, you could keep *four* eggs from that once-a-month successful breeding. So yeah, definite incentive.

Only 'part' incentive, I'd say.

 

Because you might NOT get for eggs of any type...and as said special dragon is most LIKELY a rare, the odds of getting TWO golds,for example is small,let alone FOUR.

Share this post


Link to post

Well yes, of course it'd be just as likely to produce no eggs, or one egg, or all Celestial eggs, or whatever. But the fact remains that there would be a *chance* of a clutch of 4 rares and you could keep them all. That's still a better chance then the chance that *all 4* weekly breedings in a month would not only produce an egg, but the rare egg. And I have no clue about Golds and such, but I have seen multiple screenshots of Celestial breedings with 4 Prize eggs, so however 'rare' that chance may be it does indeed happen, more often then once-in-forever.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Marie19R said:

Well yes, of course it'd be just as likely to produce no eggs, or one egg, or all Celestial eggs, or whatever. But the fact remains that there would be a *chance* of a clutch of 4 rares and you could keep them all. That's still a better chance then the chance that *all 4* weekly breedings in a month would not only produce an egg, but the rare egg. And I have no clue about Golds and such, but I have seen multiple screenshots of Celestial breedings with 4 Prize eggs, so however 'rare' that chance may be it does indeed happen, more often then once-in-forever.

 

The chance of a single clutch of 4 rares is equal to the chance of getting 4 rares in a row from 4 regular single-egg breedings, and is actually less than the chance of getting 4 rares in a row from 4 non-multigrab clutches. I can't expand on the math because it's been too long and I've forgotten most of it, but as an analogy whether you buy 4 lottery tickets at the same time or 4 lottery tickets throughout the day does not change your chance of winning (getting all 4 rares). But if, say, you could buy 4 subsequent lottery tickets and were told if 1 of your numbers matched a winning one, then you would logically have a higher chance at getting all the numbers in the lottery because you already have a few winning numbers despite your early tickets not winning (picking 4 rares out of rare+nonrare clutch breedings). Admittedly there's a big chance you'll have 2 rares or no rares, but I'm fairly sure getting any amount of rares from several non-multigrab clutches is still easier than getting the same amount from only 1 clutch.

 

Also there's like zero trading benefit to getting sibling rares at the same time. I assume most people concerned with lineages will only take one sibling to avoid inbreeding, and in the cases of high rares like 2nd-gen prizes there's a lower chance different people will have the trading material for both during the same week, versus spread out over 2 weeks.

 

Anyway, as it happens I don't see much benefit to this suggestion except in case of dragons life-mated with celestials, or pb celestial breedings, or a few other situations that mostly focus on celestial lineage-making/bloodswaps/etc. instead of rares, and I would personally favor keeping things as is if TJ decides multigrabbing + cooldown is non-optional because I'd like to be able to breed commons to celestials multiple times in a month for faster ratio-fixing.

Edited by Shadowdrake

Share this post


Link to post


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.