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RealWilliamShakespeare

Grab multiple clutch eggs

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Yikes. I’m not some greedy selfish egg-hog, I’m not against the idea of sharing, and I have never requested to keep everything of a clutch, only more than one.

 

I for one am kinda in favour of there being a BSA to grab more than one, I’d just like there to be a method for it. Stromboli suggested rolling to see how many eggs you keep and I actually really like that idea too. That way it would be a fun chance to see how many you get to keep, and sometimes it would be more than one, and other times just one. Which would evidently please

a lot of people. I really do like the idea of that. 

 

Also Amazon_warrior, you might want to look through the thread again, as other users and I have presented other examples.

 

But yeah, the naming aspect imo was a good point - it’s unfortunate that people have to abstain from breeding certain breeds just to keep the lines they want in order. 

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Well, lineages aren't really affected by *siblings* owned by other people.

 

However, I can see another side effect of something like this implemented and people keep all multiclutch siblings.

"Oh noes, I accidentally created an inbred lineage because I bred this dragon to its sibling!" :rolleyes: (much more likely if you feel the need to keep all siblings just to keep naming rights on them)

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The big problem to me is still that people will breed celestials to only golds and silvers (and possibly prizes as well), and keep all the rare eggs, if this is allowed. That could possibly hurt ratios, too.

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Probably not, no.

I just did a little test breeding. CB gold x CB celestial, with fertility. Result: 4 celestial eggs. B)

Edited by olympe

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It's still a chance- and if people mass-breed Celesitals for that purpose, won't they become rarer to breed as well? Or is that only affected by CB numbers.

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You'd have to ask TJ for a definitive answer... Which means pretty much that you won't get one. Ever.

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1 hour ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

The big problem to me is still that people will breed celestials to only golds and silvers (and possibly prizes as well), and keep all the rare eggs, if this is allowed. That could possibly hurt ratios, too.

So far I've had one instance where a pairing threw two golds in a clutch. It hasn't happened since, but I can guarantee that if given the chance, I would have kept both and used them for trading....which is why I'm leaning more in favor of not supporting keeping eggs, especially if breeding has to be tweaked to accommodate the suggestion. I obviously won't be hurt either way (keep more eggs for whatever I want vs. things staying as they are), but the more I read, the less I'm seeing any benefit to keeping eggs other than for personal gain. 

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4 hours ago, olympe said:

What was the other? Being able to get more eggs more quickly? No matter how many people want this, I still think this shouldn't happen, and do not support it at all.

 

It doesn't though. The egg limits are still in place.

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1 hour ago, Ruby Eyes said:

I'm not sure if Celestials can produce rares beyond what the ratios are allowing.

 

Maybe not beyond what *ratios* allow, but definitely beyond what a normal breeding would allow. People have posted screenshots of Celestial/Prize pairings breeding *four* Prize eggs, for instance. It does happen, however rare that chance is. 

 

So, from what I've read it seems like the main ideas here are to control all eggs so nothing gets inappropriately named or killed or whatever, to keep all eggs so you have a better chance at alts, and.... What else? I don't think either of those are good reasons to change something as special and unique as *one* dragon's breeding mechanic. If you don't want any eggs going to the AP, there are like 170 other breeds of dragon that you can breed with instead of a Celestial. I think wanting so badly to control where your eggs go because you don't like what they may be named is... Not really a good enough point? Eggs that leave your scroll aren't yours and you have no say over what happens to them, and you shouldn't. If you are so overly concerned about that then just don't breed with Celestials, simple. And I honestly don't really think it's all that fair to be able to keep 4 blacks from one breeding in order to have 4 times the chance that you'll get an alt... That sounds sort of unfair to all those people who are breeding Blacks with anything else and only able to get 1 egg per breeding. 

 

I see the arguments made in favor of this suggestion, I simply don't agree that those 'issues' are reason enough to change something that 'spreads the love' so much and allows many people a shot at grabbing those autoed extra eggs that wouldn't be there otherwise. I'd honestly more support no multiclutches at all over the ability to keep more then one from a clutch (not that I actually want that!!).

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2 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

Also Amazon_warrior, you might want to look through the thread again, as other users and I have presented other examples.

 

I have. @Marie19R sums it up nicely, imo.

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This whole argument boils down to two points - possession and control. If you want to control your bred eggs then you have to possess them, as that is the only guaranteed way to decide what happens to them. I strongly disagree with having the ability to keep all (or even more) eggs from one clutch because I believe there are unfortunately more people out there who would keep them all than would let them go to the AP.

 

People breed for a purpose, either for themselves or others. How long do you think people will keep breeding week in and week out to send all the eggs to the AP if they have no other reason to breed those dragons? And if they are breeding those dragons for a personal reason then given the chance to keep extra eggs I believe a significant number of people will do so. The current method is forced generosity, and it works, as seen by the AP. 

 

I think you are underestimating how many people breed only for people they know, or who are part of a group or forum they are involved with. Although this forum has a large userbase there are lots more people out there spread across many smaller forums. Humans are by nature cliquey and greedy, and it’s extremely difficult to trade for anything rare without being able to catch CB rares. Hand on heart how many rare eggs would you send to the AP if your proposal came about?

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Honestly, after consideration, I'd be fine with breeders being able to keep the full clutch from a Celestial, provided the chosen mate had a full month breeding cooldown too. I do NOT support such a thing for Holidays, but for Celestials I'm fine with it. I don't really care if it means someone profits off the Celestial giving them an extra rare or three. 2G metals are routinely given away for free and all three of my 2G Prizes were gifts - and I would fully expect Celestial Prize lines to quickly become worth far less if they became more common due to the multi-clutching.

 

Tl;dr Fine to slightly alter how multi-clutching works with Celestials, absolutely not for Holidays.

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9 hours ago, jinglepupskye said:

I think you are underestimating how many people breed only for people they know, or who are part of a group or forum they are involved with. Although this forum has a large userbase there are lots more people out there spread across many smaller forums. Humans are by nature cliquey and greedy, and it’s extremely difficult to trade for anything rare without being able to catch CB rares. Hand on heart how many rare eggs would you send to the AP if your proposal came about?

 

This is true. I am actually part of a small group of buddies who trade on another unrelated  forum, though I do breed for free for anyone who asks.

 

But Libby's suggestion (the other dragon also gets a one month cooldown) is the best compromise I've seen yet. Less complicated than a BSA. You get the choice "Keep all these eggs and put xdragon on CD for a month or keep just one."

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On 17/01/2018 at 2:57 PM, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

Perhaps the dragon that bred with a Celestial is unable to breed for the same 4 week cooldown - an explanation could be that breeding with such an ethereal magical energy takes its toll on the dragon. It would kind of make sense - breeding with "living, breathing constellations" I imagine is an interesting task. There could also be a compensation to keeping the multiple eggs as it is - one user mentioned a BSA, and even more hands-on compensations I'd be willing to take. I'd love to hear what other suggestions there could be regarding this.

 

Earlier in the thread, I suggested a lengthened cooldown for the non-Celestial dragon, and it’s something I’d really like to see. As I’ve described a few times, I’d be happy for compensations, and don’t think an addition to the site which people seem to take so seriously should be without recompense. 

 

Also, reiterating: I don’t necessarily want ALL eggs. Just more. Maybe it’s capped at two or three (I don’t know what the max a clutch can produce is) but leaving at least one egg to the AP would still enforce generosity. 

Edited by RealWilliamShakespeare

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If the mate to the celestial also has to have a 4 week cooldown people who have spriters' alts and prizes would never again breed their special dragon with a celestial.  I certainly wouldn't, and a celestial was recently the choice of the person requesting the egg. I'm not going to put one of my alts into a 4 week cooldown. That's not a reasonable expectation.

Edited by Fiona

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And you even have multiple alts. It's probably similarly unreasonable to expect owners of a single Prize to do that.

Poor Celestials XD

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On 17/01/2018 at 9:45 AM, TJ09 said:

Celestials are a different case. The idea was to compensate the ability to breed only once every four weeks with the chance to get four weeks worth of eggs in that one breeding. Due to how multi-clutching works, you don't actually get all of those eggs—though you also aren't really giving up four weeks worth of eggs if the other dragon isn't a Celestial, so it's not exactly equal in both directions. Of the two, though, I'm more open to changing this, though probably not without some sort of tradeoff to componsate for the ability to keep breeding the non-Celestial mate weekly during the Celestial's cooldown.

 

Okay, fair enough if some aren’t open to the suggestion. Just quoting what TJ said on the matter though.

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42 minutes ago, Fiona said:

If the mate to the celestial also has to have a 4 week cooldown people who have spriters' alts and prizes would never again breed their special dragon with a celestial.  I certainly wouldn't, and a celestial was recently the choice of the person requesting the egg. I'm not going to put one of my alts into a 4 week cooldown. That's not a reasonable expectation.

 

Yes, this.  Right now I'd happily breed Luckiest Catch to a Celestial with the full knowledge that it may result in 1-3 randos in the AP finding something a bit special. But if the tradeoff of keeping any/all eggs from the same breeding is not being able to breed the most desired dragon on my scroll for four weeks?  No thanks, not worth it.

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This suggestion constantly reminds me of time, when CB Hollies were few and rare... and AP trading was a thing. And people sucking up to those few owners as much as possible... And then hopefully being one of the 4 in the list for the Hollies or being at least "on the list" for next Christmas.

Then Teleport came and AP trading went poof... and Holly owners were upset that they wouldn't be able to control where things went. Wonder why... reasons on that regard varied, but greed was more prominent one that I could tell.

 

I know... I know... "That's holiday multi-clutch Moon, totally different from Celestial ones".

Who says one can't do same with some other rare dragon? Take all the rares, dump rest, make profit.

 

Even now we have some who trade 2nd gen prizes for other 2nd gen prizes only, making that priority over someone else wanting them. Some see it as lineage building (my view on it as well, I would love to build a checker with prizes, maybe even purebreed if ever given chance for it), others see it as "elitism".

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2 hours ago, Fiona said:

If the mate to the celestial also has to have a 4 week cooldown people who have spriters' alts and prizes would never again breed their special dragon with a celestial.  I certainly wouldn't, and a celestial was recently the choice of the person requesting the egg. I'm not going to put one of my alts into a 4 week cooldown. That's not a reasonable expectation.

 

This is a very good point. Compromising by giving the celestial's mate a 4-week cooldown as well seems like an understandable way to go, until you think about this. It would end up going one of two ways: Either the user would never breed their special dragons to celestials again, because they don't want those special dragons on cooldown for a whole month, or they would *only* breed them to celestials with the ability to keep more of the eggs, which means a significant drop in the number of special-dragon offspring available for other users.

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It also provides no real benefit. You get a chance at 4 eggs across 1 month whether that’s normal breeding or Celestial breeding. There isn’t even a change in total eggs kept because you’d keep either all the Celestial clutch or all the eggs bred by normal dragons in a month.

 

I don’t think it’s worth tampering with.

 

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2 hours ago, Marie19R said:

 

This is a very good point. Compromising by giving the celestial's mate a 4-week cooldown as well seems like an understandable way to go, until you think about this. It would end up going one of two ways: Either the user would never breed their special dragons to celestials again, because they don't want those special dragons on cooldown for a whole month, or they would *only* breed them to celestials with the ability to keep more of the eggs, which means a significant drop in the number of special-dragon offspring available for other users.

 

Yeah.  Doesn't even have to be something like a Prize or an SA - I remember what I was like when I finally got my first ever CB Gold back in 2012 - he was SO precious to me (still is, bless 'im) and I agonised each week over what I bred him to because I only had that one opportunity to possibly breed a 2G Gold.  The possibility of losing a whole month of opportunities to breed him with other dragons would have been a killer.

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3 hours ago, Marie19R said:

 

This is a very good point. Compromising by giving the celestial's mate a 4-week cooldown as well seems like an understandable way to go, until you think about this. It would end up going one of two ways: Either the user would never breed their special dragons to celestials again, because they don't want those special dragons on cooldown for a whole month, or they would *only* breed them to celestials with the ability to keep more of the eggs, which means a significant drop in the number of special-dragon offspring available for other users.

 

I did suggest that you get the CHOICE every time you breed a celestial. Keep all the eggs and the other dragon has a month's cooldown, or only keep one and they can breed again in a week as usual....

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