Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Nine

ANSWERED:Hidden Refusals for Holidays

Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

 

To be fair,  it's been known for years that breeding during holidays doesn't mean cooperation after. It's the part where using fertility later on has no affect on refusal reduction because refusal has already been "set" that's surprising (and understandably irritating).

Somehow I completely missed that memo.

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, LibbyLishly said:

Somehow I completely missed that memo.

 

On the bright side, if you haven’t noticed before that hopefully means your dragons didn’t refuse anyway? :) 

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

 

On the bright side, if you haven’t noticed before that hopefully means your dragons didn’t refuse anyway? :) 

For the ones I actually remembered to breed. I'm really bad about keeping up on my holiday projects.

Share this post


Link to post

I keep trying to breed a 2g Copper (aka Fogball) with a CB Shadow Walker. They didn't refuse, but at the same time, they aren't producing any eggs and I have been trying since November to get them make an egg

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Fogball ?

This guy managed to grow up and I even managed to breed him (taking a picture as well) in a fog, similar to Missingno

Share this post


Link to post

OH right ! I looked for a dragon called Fogball, and that's not on your scroll !

 

I'll give that one a shot later, if you like (I'm locked.)

Edited by Fuzzbucket

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

 

I'd say it needs fixing because it's counter intuitive. If holidays can't refuse in season, who would think to use fertility on them to remove refusals? And stemming from that logic, who would guess that holidays breeding after the holiday for the first normal time would already be set in stone beyond any hope of fertility helping when, again, they COULDN'T refuse before?

 

I always test fertility on new mates well before the holidays (except CBs, since those are interchangeable), and as such I've had the good fortune not to experience the problem. But I can certainly see the frustration of people who, logically, had no way to guess that not using fertility during a refusal-free period could forever damage their chances of breeding later on.

 

As I almost always breed my pairs outside of the Seasons first, I haven't had this issue, but I also wouldn't have thought of it if I hadn't read this thread! So yes, I hope it gets fixed..... 

 

Cheers!
C4. 

Share this post


Link to post

Hopeful bump for some acknowledgement, fix, workaround, update, play-by-play, or DVD extras.

Share this post


Link to post

I strongly suspect that is what went wrong with this pair.  I can't remember for sure but I don't think I bred them before valentine's week last year.  When I tested them at the first of this month I got a refusal.  It's not fun trying to get replacement mates with anything having alt sweetlings in the starting line...

 

 A word of warning that even with refusals off on holiday breeding weeks it can still set a refusal that you are stuck with the rest of the year, and it would be wise to use fertility on ANY first breeding.  I thought it was "what happens on holiday stays on holiday" and it didn't affect things later.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Bump. It's getting closer to the last holiday breeding for a long time, I'd like to see this issue fixed, addressed, all of the above.

 

That alt Sweeting lineage makes me sad. What a bummer =(

Share this post


Link to post

I seriously don't quite get what's to fix, exactly. It seems to me that we simply now know that we need to use fertility for ALL first breedings of a pair that matters, holiday season or not. This occurred to me the first time I had this issue - a pair that bred in a holiday not doing so afterwards. The lifting of refusals only happens during holidays. It was always thus. We have always found that a pair that bred in season could refuse later. Now that we have the purple tweak, surely it makes sense to use it during holidays as well ?

Share this post


Link to post

Last time you posted why you don't think this is a problemthat needs fixing, ADP summed it up quite nicely:

 

On 1/18/2018 at 6:14 PM, angelicdragonpuppy said:

 

I'd say it needs fixing because it's counter intuitive. If holidays can't refuse in season, who would think to use fertility on them to remove refusals? And stemming from that logic, who would guess that holidays breeding after the holiday for the first normal time would already be set in stone beyond any hope of fertility helping when, again, they COULDN'T refuse before?

 

I always test fertility on new mates well before the holidays (except CBs, since those are interchangeable), and as such I've had the good fortune not to experience the problem. But I can certainly see the frustration of people who, logically, had no way to guess that not using fertility during a refusal-free period could forever damage their chances of breeding later on.

 

As I also mentioned in my OP:

 

On 1/7/2018 at 2:48 AM, Nine said:

It's easy to get blindsided by this hidden probability of refusals since the dragons still show up in the breeding list, you don't know if they secretly refused or not, and I know I never considered using Fertility during holidays anyways because it's said to be a 100% guarantee.

 

Theres nothing in holiday breeding that says "BTW if you breed a dragon to a holiday for the first time, they might secretly refuse in addition to producing eggs and also still show up as viable mates until you breed them outside the season".

Share this post


Link to post

No but we know refusals are paused during holidays, and we have always known that some dragons that have bred in holidays will refuse afterwards - and that they would show up as viable mates until their first attempt at non-holiday breeding. As soon as the fertility tweak happened, it seemed to me logical to use fertility at ALL first breedings, no matter when.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe you have, but I didn't. Others posting in this thread didn't. There's nowhere on site that says this is the case, and unless you are actively reading help threads or whatever other obscure posts have been made about this, you're not going to come across this info easily without having likely messed up some holiday lineages. I certainly have never seen people posting in their signature "WARNING, Fertility your holiday first-time breedings to avoid hidden refusal probabilities even though refusals are 'turned off'", and I'd like to think I've been around long enough to have a basic idea of breeding fundamentals.

 

This would be an easy fix by any number of chosen methods, and I don't see why it shouldn't be fixed if it can and will prevent problems in the future.

Share this post


Link to post

Not the one about fertility, no  (though it has come up in TLQ) BUt there are so OFTEN TLQs about a holiday dragon that had bred successfully before refusing its mate and what happened - and the answer is always well, if they first bred during holidays, they may easily refuse afterwards.

 

Here's some:

 

Some more:

and WAY back when:

 

Share this post


Link to post
14 minutes ago, Nine said:

There's nowhere on site that says this is the case, and unless you are actively reading help threads or whatever other obscure posts have been made about this, you're not going to come across this info easily without having likely messed up some holiday lineages. 

 

This would be an easy fix by any number of chosen methods, and I don't see why it shouldn't be fixed if it can and will prevent problems in the future.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Fair enough - though TLQ is hardly obscure.

 

But as the refusal-greyed mate only shows up AFTER a refusal has happened... it might not be as easy as you think.

 

Maybe the FAQs could use an edit to point out that if a pair is first bred during a holiday, they may refuse after that holiday.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

Share this post


Link to post

As others have pointed out, this is far from a new issue. Even with the "recent" fertility changes (which happened back in 2016, so they've affected both the 2016­–17 event season and the 2017–18 event season), fertility in general having no effect on holiday breeding, as well as successful holiday pairings potentially refusing outside of holiday breeding season have been the "norm" for years.

 

Despite this, it's definitely not an intuitive set of interactions, so the following changes will happen for the upcoming Valentine's breeding:

 

* Fertility will not be removed from pairs during event breeding, since it has no effect anyways.

* Pair compatibility will be completely ignored during event breeding. This means that new pairs that breed during an event but would refuse otherwise will not be marked as such after the event, potentially wasting a breeding (if you breed them and they refuse anyways) but allowing the use of fertility after the event.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.