Fixing the Current CB Prize System

[Jazeki]

3 minutes ago, fuzzbucket said:

BUT that really is unfair - judging of such things is totally subjective. (I well remember that - most of the winning entries were ones that were NOT Christmas trees at all. lso to my mind, many were plain unpleasant, but got votes from their friends.... When you are asked to "decorate a Christmas tree" you assume that's what you are to do.Not top convert it into a dragon.)

 

Not to mention the talents some of us do and don't have, which instantly rules out anyone with - for one thing - vision issues. I would say a resounding no to anything that requires writing or artistic skills. This is a dragon collection game. Reward people for PLAYING it.

I second this. I enjoyed decorating, honestly, but I was a bit surprised to see that many people who won had things that were no longer even tree like (or gingerbread house-y).

 

 

[LadyLyzar]

1 hour ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Technically Prize just refers to anything that was won in this way. I would consider the female Hollies Prizes, along with CB hybrids, and I think someone asked for a Frill at one point? Perhaps we should be more specific in using the names Tinsel and Shimmer.

It is fair to point out that at one time there were honorable mention drawings, and now no longer are. While I would very much like to have Tinsels and Shimmers available in some way other than the raffle, CB hybrids are even more of a conundrum since they are unobtainable at all anymore. It's not a personal desire of mine, but in the sake of fairness, the least that could be done is to reinstate honorable mention prizes.

Upside-down mints were a one-off joke, and and as Olympe says, do not appear different in lineage views, so they're not as important to me as to other mentioned things.

 

In summary;

1. Make Tinsels and shimmers obtainable outside of the raffle.

2. Reinstate Honorable Mentions.

At this point we are just arguing semantics.

 

99% of the controversy on this topic has been around Prize dragons - as in, Tinsels and Shimmers.  HM prizes are a far distant secondary issue compared to the effect Tinsels and Shimmers have had on the trading market, which is entirely user driven I might add.

 

I don't like bringing up a pay to play game in this, but I think this particular one does have a beneficial mechanic if you ignore the pay to play aspect.  For those who play Howrse, they have promotional minigames left and right (too many IMO) with the jackpot of a Divine horse at the end.  Recently, at the end of every promo, people who participated in it are entered into a drawing to win that Divine.  It's only one given away typically.  However, the drawing is more of a bonus - the promotional mini game is the point.

 

That being said, promos almost always take some passes (usually paid currency) to complete.  However, paying to play is NOT the only way to get passes even if it is the most expedient. You can them through regular gameplay.  As such, I save mine until there is a Divine I really want.  I am able to fully complete some of the promos and I have never bought a pass with real money.  Even if I didn't win the "jackpot" lotto drawing at the end of the promo, I still was able to save and earn the horse I wanted - and it sure felt like a prize to me because I had to work hard to earn it.  In that way, saving passes is a bit like the Trader's Canyon suggestion.

 

Even if TC isn't implemented, given that Prize dragons are supposed to be exactly that - a PRIZE - I feel they should be difficult to get if they are obtainable outside of a raffle.  It should be a difficult challenge, not a "everyone gets one" sort of thing. 

 

That being said, I'm not sure what that challenge should be.  DC's mechanics are fairly simple.  However, I think everyone should start on a clean slate if said challenge is implemented.  So if it was something like "Raise 200 unique breeds of dragons" - everyone's counter would start at zero regardless of if they already own that many kinds.

[Process]

Just stating that it was near impossible to vote for friends before

The system was just

>want to vote on stuff

> shows random decorated thing with no name

 

You had no idea who you voted for plus with so many submissions was pretty much impossible to see a friends 

[MissK.]

10 minutes ago, fuzzbucket said:

BUT that really is unfair - judging of such things is totally subjective. (I well remember that - most of the winning entries were ones that were NOT Christmas trees at all. lso to my mind, many were plain unpleasant, but got votes from their friends.... When you are asked to "decorate a Christmas tree" you assume that's what you are to do.Not top convert it into a dragon.)

 

Not to mention the talents some of us do and don't have, which instantly rules out anyone with - for one thing - vision issues. I would say a resounding no to anything that requires writing or artistic skills. This is a dragon collection game. Reward people for PLAYING it.

 

To be fair, you couldn't vote for specific people, and TJ had the final pick from the finalists in the end. So it wasn't based on popularity that much (I sure wasn't well-known or popular). But yeah your second point stands for sure, that's why I'd enjoy such an event more if it was just for fun or with smaller prizes, and not the only chance to win an exclusive dragon. Then it wouldn't be any more of a popularity contest than those valentine events where you could send people cards - getting more didn't really affect the game.

 

4 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

-snip-

 

Even if TC isn't implemented, given that Prize dragons are supposed to be exactly that - a PRIZE - I feel they should be difficult to get if they are obtainable outside of a raffle.  It should be a difficult challenge, not a "everyone gets one" sort of thing. 

 

That being said, I'm not sure what that challenge should be.  DC's mechanics are fairly simple.  However, I think everyone should start on a clean slate if said challenge is implemented.  So if it was something like "Raise 200 unique breeds of dragons" - everyone's counter would start at zero regardless of if they already own that many kinds.

 

Agreed, especially the clean slate would be crucial.Getting several prizes at once just by virtue of collecting dragons since 2008 would not only be unfair, but extremely unsatisfying. Prizes should be eventually obtainable with a good amount of effort.

[Daydreamer09]

4 minutes ago, MissK. said:

 

To prevent that some sort of cap would have to be established, but then among all reasonably active players the chances may as well remain mostly equal, which kind of defeats the purpose. I'm not against the idea, it just might take some fine tuning.

I was sort of basing the cap moreso on the timespan to raise dragons. There's only a month during the competition, so that does limit a bit. But I'm not arguing against a hard concrete cap of X amount of dragons. That makes sense in the long run. I'm also going to mention a danger of someone creating accounts to reach the cap on multiple scrolls. It would have to be over a certain amount where a new, trophy-less scroll can't reach to help deter that.

Yeah, this idea definitely needs fine-tuning.

 

Active players get a much higher chance versus non active and that's who I personally want to see win these prizes. All players who meet the cap SHOULD all have the same % chance, but if you were to look at the pie comparatively their odds would be greater than non regular players. Consider someone who meets the cap every month with every raffle and they've worked to increase those chances by playing, compared to the current system where everyone's got the same percentage.

[olympe]

40 minutes ago, Process said:

Just stating that it was near impossible to vote for friends before

The system was just

>want to vote on stuff

> shows random decorated thing with no name

 

You had no idea who you voted for plus with so many submissions was pretty much impossible to see a friends 

 

Well, it would have been possible if you knew your friends' trees *and* voted through all entries. There were, quite literally, thousands of them. I spent hours upon hours voting and didn't get through, although some people did. (Kudos for so much dedication!)

[LibbyLishly]

40 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

Even if TC isn't implemented, given that Prize dragons are supposed to be exactly that - a PRIZE - I feel they should be difficult to get if they are obtainable outside of a raffle.  It should be a difficult challenge, not a "everyone gets one" sort of thing. 

 

That being said, I'm not sure what that challenge should be.  DC's mechanics are fairly simple.  However, I think everyone should start on a clean slate if said challenge is implemented.  So if it was something like "Raise 200 unique breeds of dragons" - everyone's counter would start at zero regardless of if they already own that many kinds.

 I actually think that's a decent idea for a challenge. Players would have to track which breeds they'd raised that would count toward their earned Prize, and it would take probably at least a year since they'd have to raise one of all the holiday breeds. Everyone should absolutely start on equal footing, regardless of trophy status. 

 

I think I've said this before, but I DON'T want the raffle to go away - I just want a way to EARN a Prize to be implemented alongside it. I think it should take a great deal of effort and a lot of time to get a Prize if you didn't win it, but I do think it should be achievable for all committed players.

 

 

Also, for the record, I am so hardcore opposed to pay-to-play it's not funny.

[Fuzzbucket]

9 minutes ago, olympe said:

 

Well, it would have been possible if you knew your friends' trees *and* voted through all entries. There were, quite literally, thousands of them. I spent hours upon hours voting and didn't get through, although some people did. (Kudos for so much dedication!)

 

And there were people who said they had been shown their friends' trees to vote for, and carefully voted against anyone else's. (And of course all the stubborn ones who deliberately voted ONLY for empty trees !)

Edited January 8, 2018 by fuzzbucket

[MissK.]

18 minutes ago, LibbyLishly said:

 I actually think that's a decent idea for a challenge. Players would have to track which breeds they'd raised that would count toward their earned Prize, and it would take probably at least a year since they'd have to raise one of all the holiday breeds. Everyone should absolutely start on equal footing, regardless of trophy status. 

-snip-

 

Oh wow I hadn't even thought of the holiday breeds, somehow that makes it even more interesting. I know for sure this would motivate me to collect more, maybe continue lineages I've forgotten about by now...there are definitely some holiday checkers on my scroll that need mates.

 

16 minutes ago, fuzzbucket said:

 

And there were people who said they had been shown their friends' trees to vote for, and carefully voted against anyone else's. (And of course all the stubborn ones who deliberately voted ONLY for empty trees !)

 

Yes I remember some people describing their...unconventional voting practices, but compared to the total of votes do you honestly think they accounted for that many of the winners? Plus voting only for empty trees wouldn't have any real effect since it would keep everybody else on an equal footing. I obviously agree that these things will never be free of bias, and therefore it's not a good idea to give super special prizes based on these results, it just seems like the extent of this effect might be exaggerated a bit.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Since I'm sure that every thing mentioned in this post so far, has been mentioned in every other thread about this topic, I'm just going to restate my usual preferences.

 

My #1 choice is the Store

 

My #2 choice is turning the Prize dragons into regular dragons that drop in the cave like other rares. Then the original prizes can have some distinguishing something that lets folk know they were actual prizes.

 

In my opinion, those are the only 2 options that would truly solve the problem. Eveything else is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.

[HeatherMarie]

I definitely agree with @LadyLyzar that CB Prizes should be difficult to get no matter how you get them... They are special, after all, and were created to be special. They aren't like Mints or Stones, and shouldn't be obtainable like them. That said, I do think they *should* be obtainable, in a realistic way, for all active users, which having just the raffle does not do. That's why I like the store idea so much, it would take months of active playing to save up enough for one CB Prize, so it wouldn't be like everyone could just get them right away by doing nothing, but everyone *could* get them if they *worked* for it and put in the time and effort. 

 

I'm also totally not opposed to getting one by meeting certain requirements, like raising a certain number of a certain breed or whatever, and it should of course be a blank slate if that's implemented so everyone has the same chance. Something like the old tree-decorating contest I am very much against, for reasons that have already been pointed out: It's true that the voting for that didn't show names, but I remember very well that many people were talking about sharing their tree with their friends, and only voting for their friend's trees, and deliberately downvoting anyone else regardless of what the tree looked like. Leaving something as important as CB Prize distribution up to the userbase, who can and will be extremely biased, is not a good idea.

[Jazeki]

I think meeting certain requirements (like collecting x breed) are okay as long as they don't ruin people's playing styles in order to meet requirements. I know you can release/kill/bite, but it sure sucks to decide that you need to collect a ton of a breed that you don't like. 

 

[Dragon_Arbock]

1 minute ago, Jazeki said:

I think meeting certain requirements (like collecting x breed) are okay as long as they don't ruin people's playing styles in order to meet requirements. I know you can release/kill/bite, but it sure sucks to decide that you need to collect a ton of a breed that you don't like. 

 

I sort of agree with this. I honestly have some dragons I don't even like cause when they're released we don't know what they are. Haven't really had the heart to get rid of them, but I don't like every breed. Raising dragons is fine, but I'm not certain about having to raise a number of one specific breed.

[Guillotine]

I would be fine with "Raise X Different Dragons to adulthood", honestly (especially since, like the Encyclopedia, I doubt it'd be reasonable to count old dragons), but I wouldn't like having to raise a specific breed.
 

[LibbyLishly]

8 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

I think meeting certain requirements (like collecting x breed) are okay as long as they don't ruin people's playing styles in order to meet requirements. I know you can release/kill/bite, but it sure sucks to decide that you need to collect a ton of a breed that you don't like. 

 

I agree with this. That's why I liked Lady L"s challenge that would be to raise 200 unique breeds - one dragon from each. You wouldn't have to clutter your scroll with 20 of a breed you hated. I suppose there may be players who refuse to collect certain dragons ( I only have one frozen of each color of Dino and strongly dislike the adult sprites, for example), but if the release schedule this year continues the way it did last year, we'll have enough unique breeds that no one would have to raise one of any handful of breeds they didn't want.

[KrazyKarp]

I've been working on some suggestions for the "achievements" type of things. Hoping to have a really rough rough draft done soon, it's honestly tricky. If TC isn't an option then the achievements are our second best option. Of course, I'd like it if everyone started out on equal footing if achievements happened.

[Starscream]

Achievement prizes I would not be opposed to. Maybe a different category of prize dragons -  I don't know. But something that is achievable... I know some people love to hunt achievements.  (My husband does that in various games all the time) Collect at leasdt one mint. Collect three - one each, Magma, Thunder, Ice dragons. Collect one of each zyu etc. Special achievement (these likely would retro for those who have htem already) get at least one GoN, One Zombie, One Neglected (maybe) (for example), one Sinomorph. Have one successful vampire bite -  you get the idea.

[Rekha]

I support achievements for some sort of prize dragon but I think I am with Starscream here, perhaps a different category of prize dragons. Something that is different that way we still have the normal Prizes and how those are obtained and then this version and how they are obtained,

[Dragon_Arbock]

9 minutes ago, Rekha said:

I support achievements for some sort of prize dragon but I think I am with Starscream here, perhaps a different category of prize dragons. Something that is different that way we still have the normal Prizes and how those are obtained and then this version and how they are obtained,

That would solve nothing- I'm not against achievements, but this topic is about making the current Prize dragons more obtainable.

[KrazyKarp]

I'd much rather fix our current Prizes instead of abandoning the problem and creating new Prizes.

[Starscream]

I'll restate that it doesn't need to be fixed - maybe a slight increase -  but as far as it goes, this situation is better than none at all -  which I was perfectly happy having raffles being ended (I still am open to that option) There are certainly more prizes being given out than there were previously.

[CursedFlames]

It seems like people don't like Process's idea of killing all the prizes, so how about we compromise and turn all the prizes into mints? The prize-owners get to keep their dragons, but we still get rid of prizes.

[Rekha]

Only thing I can see that would fix the current way, which I honestly do not believe it needs to be fixed, its fine as it is, however if it must be fixed then I am okay to raising the requirements to enter the raffle and/or raising number of Prize Dragons given out during the drawings. Beyond that, I have stated before and so have others, that there is nothing to be fixed, the raffle that we are enjoying now -was- the fix.

[KrazyKarp]

This situation is better than none at all, I agree. And there are more Prizes being given out than previously, yup. But "better" doesn't mean "good" and "more" doesn't mean "enough". I'm not at all content with the current system - not even close to content. I firmly believe that everyone, so long as they put in the work, should have some CB Prizes and that it will not only provide satisfaction to many people, but also fix our incredibly broken trading economy. If you (general you, not at anyone in particular) want to forever stay stuck to that silly raffle then go ahead, but let those who'd rather not rely on crap luck instead work for CB Prizes. Don't ruin it for the rest of us. You wouldn't be forced to participate in a different way of getting 'em anyway.

 

Also, it's a big part of a personal belief of mine. I just believe that a game should reward hard-working, active players instead of rewarding players for practically doing nothing but signing up and growing 3 dragons. That seriously doesn't sit well with me. But I suppose to each their own.

[Rekha]

2 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

This situation is better than none at all, I agree. And there are more Prizes being given out than previously, yup. But "better" doesn't mean "good" and "more" doesn't mean "enough". I'm not at all content with the current system - not even close to content. I firmly believe that everyone, so long as they put in the work, should have some CB Prizes and that it will not only provide satisfaction to many people, but also fix our incredibly broken trading economy. If you (general you, not at anyone in particular) want to forever stay stuck to that silly raffle then go ahead, but let those who'd rather not rely on crap luck instead work for CB Prizes. Don't ruin it for the rest of us. You wouldn't be forced to participate in a different way of getting 'em anyway.

 

Also, it's a big part of a personal belief of mine. I just believe that a game should reward hard-working, active players instead of rewarding players for practically doing nothing but signing up and growing 3 dragons. That seriously doesn't sit well with me. But I suppose to each their own.

You tell me not to ruin it for the rest of you but you don't seem to see that what you desire would ruin it for the other side of this debate. No matter what there are going to be people that are upset over this, there will always be something. If its not this there will be something else that comes up next that everyone wants fixed. While I wouldn't be forced to participate I would be forced to watch as something I have cherished as being unique and very rare for a very long time. I have loved Prizes ever since I learned of them and enjoyed them as something that wasn't very obtainable. To me, what you desire would absolutely destroy that. 

 

Though I would like to point out that the game DOES reward hard-working, active players. We get to get more eggs slowly as we gain our trophies. That is our reward for working hard. The satisfaction of all that hard work with our own pride in our lineages that we create, whatever they may be.

 

There are already more Prizes out there now than there were years ago and that has made it a lot easier to trade for what used to be practically unobtainable the mythical 2nd Gen Prize. Now that is an obtainable goal. As we get more Prizes entering the pool the ability to trade for them will be even easier. Everything in the cave should simply not -need- to be given to everyone who is here. Everyone should not be guaranteed that something that is called a "Prize" is something that they will be able to get with hard work and effort. People buy one random raffle ticket all the time at raffles and win a major prize just because they paid 2 dollars for a ticket. That is simply how it works it is a Prize, not a Reward.