Fixing the Current CB Prize System

[osean]

11 hours ago, Shadowgirl123 said:

sorry for digging up old topic but i want to share my idea. i am frustrated by the caveborn prizes with the other unlucky people and want a fix.

 

i do not like that some can use their special rare dragons to get things more easy. it is not equal? they can get many caveborn golds even for a single second generation prize because the rest of us can not get them. no one of the caveborn prize owners earned their special dragon,,they got lucky and got in the elite club. some are nice and gift yes but many are not and make the trading problem worse. or they say they will be generous if they do win but only trade for second generation swaps when they do. new raffles have helped only a little. It makes me annoyed. 

 

my idea is to release caveborn prizes on a holiday. just the same as fixing the hollies. all of the old caveborn prizes will stop being cash cows and every one will get second generation prizes fairly. put all six in the cave so we all get them but limit people to 1 of each. old caveborn winners will be able to get what they do not have like us. but it is more fair. no more stupid trades and rules and lists. only pretty dragon lines.

 

I would not want to see prizes drop in the cave ever!  It defeats the whole concept of what a prize is and the only people who would get them are those people who can catch golds. At least with the current raffles everyone has a chance. I would at the very least like to see the number of prizes given out each month raised or have some other method of earning them but that is a topic for another thread. 

 

I don’t know if I am reading your post wrong about blaming prize owners for the current problems with prizes but it is not really fair to blame them as they just happened to get lucky enough to win. I won the past raffle and honestly I do not feel like I am in any elite club. I have been playing this game for almost ten years and only managed to catch one CB gold so I really don’t think it is that big of a deal to trade for that one more Cb gold that I need.   Prize owners should be able to play how they want and do what they want with the offspring. 

[animatedrose]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 9:56 AM, Shadowgirl123 said:

sorry for digging up old topic but i want to share my idea. i am frustrated by the caveborn prizes with the other unlucky people and want a fix.

 

i do not like that some can use their special rare dragons to get things more easy. it is not equal? they can get many caveborn golds even for a single second generation prize because the rest of us can not get them. no one of the caveborn prize owners earned their special dragon,,they got lucky and got in the elite club. some are nice and gift yes but many are not and make the trading problem worse. or they say they will be generous if they do win but only trade for second generation swaps when they do. new raffles have helped only a little. It makes me annoyed. 

 

my idea is to release caveborn prizes on a holiday. just the same as fixing the hollies. all of the old caveborn prizes will stop being cash cows and every one will get second generation prizes fairly. put all six in the cave so we all get them but limit people to 1 of each. old caveborn winners will be able to get what they do not have like us. but it is more fair. no more stupid trades and rules and lists. only pretty dragon lines.

 

On what holiday? What would be your reasoning for it? If there's no real justification for it, don't count on it ever happening. That seems to consume almost everything on this site. If you can't pick a date, explain exactly why that date works, how long they'd drop, and how you would deal with the people who missed said drop that are guaranteed to scream "foul, not long enough, need moar, why put limits"...then yeah...

 

Also, gonna argue against the "they can get many caveborn golds for a single second generation prize". Not true. At all. You're lucky if you can get two now. It took me three 2g prize eggs to even get a single CB Gold bite on my trades. Just because you have one doesn't mean anyone with a CB Gold will want your prize. I got luckier with CB Silvers than with a CB Gold. Maybe I'm in the minority and somehow got ultra unlucky twice in a row...but yeah, no, I don't know anyone that has managed to get more than two CB Golds for a single 2g prize as the trading market currently stands. Maybe once upon a time when there was just the original Christmas Tree winners owning prize dragons...but not now.

 

Not saying there shouldn't be an increase in winners. I think the raffle should boost its winning pool numbers. But without the right justification (and nobody has managed that in a way that TJ has ever considered or accepted, as far as I'm aware), prizes in-cave likely won't happen.

[olympe]

3 hours ago, animatedrose said:

On what holiday? What would be your reasoning for it? If there's no real justification for it, don't count on it ever happening.

March 20th, International Day of Happiness. For example.

Reasoning: A Prize Dragon mass-drop would make a whole lot of people very happy indeed...

Edited October 20, 2018 by olympe

[Imzadi]

29 minutes ago, olympe said:

March 20th, International Day of Happiness. For example.

Reasoning: A Prize Dragon mass-drop would make a whole lot of people very happy indeed...

😀😀 Works for me

[animatedrose]

That could be a good one, @olympe. But would TJ go for it? *hopes so but...TJ*

[LadyShadowHeart]

10 hours ago, animatedrose said:

 

On what holiday? What would be your reasoning for it? If there's no real justification for it, don't count on it ever happening. That seems to consume almost everything on this site. If you can't pick a date, explain exactly why that date works, how long they'd drop, and how you would deal with the people who missed said drop that are guaranteed to scream "foul, not long enough, need moar, why put limits"...then yeah...

 

Also, gonna argue against the "they can get many caveborn golds for a single second generation prize". Not true. At all. You're lucky if you can get two now. It took me three 2g prize eggs to even get a single CB Gold bite on my trades. Just because you have one doesn't mean anyone with a CB Gold will want your prize. I got luckier with CB Silvers than with a CB Gold. Maybe I'm in the minority and somehow got ultra unlucky twice in a row...but yeah, no, I don't know anyone that has managed to get more than two CB Golds for a single 2g prize as the trading market currently stands. Maybe once upon a time when there was just the original Christmas Tree winners owning prize dragons...but not now.

 

Not saying there shouldn't be an increase in winners. I think the raffle should boost its winning pool numbers. But without the right justification (and nobody has managed that in a way that TJ has ever considered or accepted, as far as I'm aware), prizes in-cave likely won't happen.

if that is true what is having a caveborn prize like? there are special threads for them and badges. feels like bragging. i see caveborn prize owners say swaps or neglectds or caveborn golds only. that is not equal to normal player haves. so people with good trade skills get them and nothing is fixed. the new raffles did make it worse. i wish that tj09 would delete the caveborn prizes almost haha but too much complaints and he will never. or change them all to a new common breed hahahaha

[DragonLady86]

2 hours ago, Shadowgirl123 said:

if that is true what is having a caveborn prize like? there are special threads for them and badges. feels like bragging. i see caveborn prize owners say swaps or neglectds or caveborn golds only. that is not equal to normal player haves. so people with good trade skills get them and nothing is fixed. the new raffles did make it worse. i wish that tj09 would delete the caveborn prizes almost haha but too much complaints and he will never. or change them all to a new common breed hahahaha

Anybody can post in those threads just like everywhere else.  Every breed has a breeding thread, why shouldn't prizes? The only other "prize owner" thread is the CB owners guide which had a lot of useful info, about what could happen once you won.  Much of which is now out of date as I don't think prize owners are hounded for their offspring nearly as much.  It has nothing to do with "bragging".

 

And badges? what badges?  I have every badge except the beat the heat release.  (which still annoys me because I was online that day.) feel free to check my scroll, no badge for a prize.  If you mean signature badges, again, anyone could post those, same as ones that say you "caught x holiday" .  The broken badge in my sig used to say I voted on every tree that first year.  It was just something that someone made for other users to paste into their sig.  No one gives them to you, you have to find them yourself.

 

   Just to be clear, I have NEVER asked for either CB Golds or Neglecteds.  I did post one on someone else's neglected trade simply because it was the one dragon I didn't have.  It took me two months to get ANY egg out of mine, he simply does not produce eggs often. 

Thus far only 2 prize eggs out of the ones he has given me.  The second was gifted as have all but one fail, which I kept. Raffle winners are just like everyone else, some breed only for themselves or not at all, some only care about trade "value" and others give the stupid things away.  Please don't shoehorn them into one box.

 

Also "deleting" a breed would actually make everything about prizes 1000x worse.  Please see drama involving the retirement of Old Pinks and Frills for YEARS before they came back.  (or the drama that still surrounds Alt Sweetlings.)  The new raffles are helping by adding new blood every month, they are slowly becoming more common, the problem is that only 60 a month  is less than how many players join in a month so it's never going to catch up without something else being done. My vote is larger amounts distributed every month AND adding them to the market, but any option or either would help.

[HeatherMarie]

Prize owners are not at fault here, they've done nothing wrong by being randomly picked in a raffle. Sure, some prize owners only ask for swaps or super-rare things, but that's true of everything. Some people have a ridiculous ability to catch CB Golds constantly (how omg how on earth) and they can do the same thing, trade them for high prices... While it's sometimes frustrating to see things you want being traded for things you don't have the ability to offer, there is nothing wrong with that. It happens with trading in general, it happened before Prizes were a thing and will happen regardless of whether Prizes exist. 

 

The problem is that so *few* CB Prizes exist, and so few are added each month, there is simply not enough out there to spread the 2nd-gens around. Regardless of what those 2nd-gens trade for, or if they are given away, whatever, there simply isn't enough. We all know that active forum-goers probably make up a rather small portion of actual active players in this game, and it's most likely the same with the trading hub, and trading in general... Not all Prize winners are going to trade/gift their 2nd-gens at all, heck not all Prize winners will breed their Prize at all. With such a tiny group of CB Prize owners, some of whom may never breed their Prize at all, 2nd-gens are still fairly hard to obtain (add to that they are sometimes very difficult to obtain even for the Prize owner, stubborn breeding...). 

[Gruff]

I still fall into the category of never winning a prize, but even with that ... I say leave the system as it is.

 

Is it fair, no. Neither is life. Congrats to the lucky ones that have won multiple prizes and condolences for those of us who have not. If it is truly random, then no, I don't think previous winners should be banned from winning another random prize.

 

I would say though that one thing that could be done ... keep the current prizes as they are, but throw in a Thuwed. Five people get a random Thuwed egg.

[DragonLady86]

2 minutes ago, Gruff said:

I still fall into the category of never winning a prize, but even with that ... I say leave the system as it is.

 

Is it fair, no. Neither is life. Congrats to the lucky ones that have won multiple prizes and condolences for those of us who have not. If it is truly random, then no, I don't think previous winners should be banned from winning another random prize.

 

I would say though that one thing that could be done ... keep the current prizes as they are, but throw in a Thuwed. Five people get a random Thuwed egg.

thuweds are breed from tj's eggs and he doesn't do a lot of breeding anymore.  Nor do I think most people would be happy to get a common egg even with links to important ancestors instead of a prize.

[HeatherMarie]

5 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

thuweds are breed from tj's eggs and he doesn't do a lot of breeding anymore.  Nor do I think most people would be happy to get a common egg even with links to important ancestors instead of a prize.

 

Yeah, I'd certainly be rather upset/disappointed/etc if I *finally* got a 'you won!' email only to click and it's just a common Thuwed. I already *have* over 200 Thuwed descendants, not 2nd-gen of course but I don't exactly need/want another Thuwed instead of a CB Prize. 

[Gruff]

I personally would not be upset if I received notification I won a prize and it was a Thuwed. I would be elated if I got notification I won something.

 

Prizes are additional content that we do not normally have access to. The fact that prizes have so much value is part of the problem with the current system. Even the notion that people would be disappointed with a 'common Thuwed' kinda blows me away. The value of the prize should not matter if it just a 'common 2nd gen Thuwed', it is still something that you did not have before. Contests and prizes are not required content. There should be no expectation of what can I get out of this.

 

As another poster already said, TJ doesn't breed that much anymore, making the common 2nd gen Thuwed egg a little more rare, and allowing people to still get a Thuwed without having TJ be burdened with massive breeding.

[DragonLady86]

I can breed you a 3rd gen if you want one that bad.   But no Thuwed's in the raffle, I do not even want to contemplate the drama that would cause. o.O

[Suzumiya]

I don't like the current system. Sure, it's random, it isn't fair, life isn't fair, I know. There should be a limit, in my opinion, on how long a person has to wait before entering the raffle again. I say if you win a raffle, you can't be eligible for the raffle win again for at least 3 months or so. Or, if that's too much, change it to just not being eligible to win another of the same type of prize you already won for a couple months. Like, say you win a gold shimmer. You can still enter for the other prizes, just not another gold shimmer. 

 

It really boils my jealous blood when I see people with two Gold tinsels. I am dying for just a 2G egg from a gold tinsel, for pete's sake! Heck, maybe give out a few hundred 2G prizes as consolation for those who didn't win. Random mates. I know it wouldn't be fair if you didn't have the mate to continue the lineage, but it would be nice for people who just want ANY 2G prize and don't care one way or another. Some kind person gifted me with a 2G gold tinsel...but I can't continue the lineage because it's mate is ANOTHER GOLD TINSEL! That's fine. It's a beautiful dragon. I'm okay with it. I'm just glad to have it. 

 

I guess I'm just jelly of all the people who keep winning prizes. Bad me. 😑

[DragonLady86]

Actually, the raffle IS fair.  It does not favor any players over anyone else.  And while I don't have actual numbers, TJ has posted that the amount won by repeated winners is statistically insignificant and would make little/no difference to how many prizes are available.

[Shadowdrake]

I absolutely do not want 2g thuweds in the raffle because chances are

a) it's a breed I don't want

b) with a lineage I don't want

c) that will be untradeable

d) if tj cared about automating his thuwed breeding he would have finished that long ago for the page itself, so this is just unfeasible.

Seriously, there's no comparison between winning a CB dragon that you will otherwise never get and getting a 2g of a common you more than likely have enough of already.

 

Having a day of them in-cave doesn't sound like it'd fix things. Either it's overly common (and tradeable!) and people fill up like they do Halloweens or it's rare and only good hunters can catch them, locking out those who can't catch or those who weren't here. It's also a very drastic ratio change.

[Husky51]

OK, I have a CB raffle prize that I won shortly after the Raffle started, possibility because not as many people had entered the Raffle at that time, but the idea of increasing the number of winners each month IMO lessens the 'value' (so to speak) of the Prize itself.  It places the 'prize' from being a rarity to being a more common acquisition.  

[osmarks]

8 minutes ago, Husky51 said:

OK, I have a CB raffle prize that I won shortly after the Raffle started, possibility because not as many people had entered the Raffle at that time, but the idea of increasing the number of winners each month IMO lessens the 'value' (so to speak) of the Prize itself.  It places the 'prize' from being a rarity to being a more common acquisition.  

So what?

Distributing stupidly rare stuff via an entirely random process is not remotely fair.

[KrazyKarp]

11 minutes ago, Husky51 said:

OK, I have a CB raffle prize that I won shortly after the Raffle started, possibility because not as many people had entered the Raffle at that time, but the idea of increasing the number of winners each month IMO lessens the 'value' (so to speak) of the Prize itself.  It places the 'prize' from being a rarity to being a more common acquisition.  

Well, to an extent, that would be the point, yes. It's become quite obvious that keeping Prizes on their big throne of rarity is toxic for the site since it causes them to become the almighty gods of trading.

[DragonLady86]

That's kind of the point?  To get them out from being the rarest thing in the game?  Also, the "value" is lessened every month as it is.

[Shadowdrake]

There are probably more CB golds and silvers caught in a week than there are CB prizes in a month and yet CB metallics are still considered incredibly rare. CB prizes are *literally* priceless, and will continue to be so even if the number of prizes won goes up so long as the raffle remains the only way to get them. They've been literally priceless for nearly a decade already; their *2nd gens* are worth the next rarest dragons in game. It's already a massive value difference that shouldn't stay as is.

[DragonLady86]

Wouldn't be surprised if it's more than in a day, honestly.  60 a month is a ridiculously small number.

[HeatherMarie]

3 hours ago, Gruff said:

I personally would not be upset if I received notification I won a prize and it was a Thuwed. I would be elated if I got notification I won something.

 

Prizes are additional content that we do not normally have access to. The fact that prizes have so much value is part of the problem with the current system. Even the notion that people would be disappointed with a 'common Thuwed' kinda blows me away. The value of the prize should not matter if it just a 'common 2nd gen Thuwed', it is still something that you did not have before. Contests and prizes are not required content. There should be no expectation of what can I get out of this.

 

As another poster already said, TJ doesn't breed that much anymore, making the common 2nd gen Thuwed egg a little more rare, and allowing people to still get a Thuwed without having TJ be burdened with massive breeding.

 

It seems you have a different perception of what the raffle is all about. You apparently see winning something as wonderful no matter what that something is, because it was something you didn't have before. That's definitely not how many of us see it. The raffle is about CB Prizes, end of. It is the ONLY way to get CB Prizes (so far). CB Prizes come with HUGE benefits like immense trading power. .... Thuweds do not. Thuweds, especially commons, are relatively useless when it comes to trading unless you can find and contact one of the few who still actively seek out low-gen Thuweds. Thuweds are only 'special' because of their parents. They can be any breed, so the breed itself is not special. They can be any lineage, so the lineage itself is not special. Many people don't even care about Thuweds at all and certainly wouldn't think they were anywhere near the special-ness of Prizes.

 

Imagine getting that 'you won!' email, and finding out that what you won is a 32nd-generation inbred Black egg. Would you be excited, would you be happy, would you be satisfied? Most people wouldn't. Most people would be upset. Because that's not what the raffle is for, that's not *why* they enter the raffle. When the Market first came out, and with it the concept of shards, some people wanted to add shard-prizes to the raffle. It's the same thing. Most people enter the raffle for a chance to win a CB Prize, and that's it. 'Winning' is actually a very disappointing thing if what you 'win' is worthless or something you don't like and never wanted to begin with.

[The Dragoness]

1 hour ago, Husky51 said:

OK, I have a CB raffle prize that I won shortly after the Raffle started, possibility because not as many people had entered the Raffle at that time, but the idea of increasing the number of winners each month IMO lessens the 'value' (so to speak) of the Prize itself.  It places the 'prize' from being a rarity to being a more common acquisition.  

Sorry, but I don't think is at all fair. More Prizes are going to come into existence each month regardless of the exact number. You were one of those people at a time that got lucky, so it's not really fair to say "well I want fewer people to win." I don't want Prizes to be common (or even uncommon) either, but I don't want them to be the unicorns of DC just so x person can have trading power. A prize is something you win, so the Prize itself is still what it's name implies if more are given out monthly. And I'm sure they'll always be worth quite a bit, as not every player who wins has a forum account and will trade.

 

Also, on 2G Thuweds...honestly, I don't want them in the raffle either. I would be fine with runner up or consolation prizes, but don't make them official "main" prizes. They're just not the same thing as a CB Prize. I would be sad too if I got the ein notification, expected a CB Prize, and found a 2G Thuwed. 2G Thuweds are still great, but not what I would be hoping for.

[olympe]

Personally, I think the only way to fix the CB prize system is if their stupid rarity goes down by at least one order of magnitude, preferably several. Even if the number of CB prizes on each scroll was limited, similar to CB holidays (save for Halloweens) or GoNs, it would still be so much easier to trade for 2nd gens without being able to offer up a different 2nd gen prize, a 2nd gen from SA, CB golds (preferably plural) or neglecteds (preferably plural).

 

Another thing I think needs to be fixed badly is the enforced uneven distribution of 0 (99% of the player base) to1 (roughly 1% of the player base) to several (way less than 1% of the player base, but definitely there).