Make eggs/hatchlings in teleports safe.

[maratrekkan]

@Marie19R I do use different hatcheries including that one but no they were in ANDH. Just been harder than expected, not the end of the world I will rebreed the dragons in question. I am just considering it accidental view bombing, not grinch activity. 

 

Like you I don’t trade much, tends to be becuase of PM. I am really not part of the DC egg economy... but I think protections of teleport eggs should be addressed, especially after seeing the problems others are having.

[olympe]

I hardly ever trade, either, but I still think we need some safeguards for eggs in teleport. Because once people can get an egg's code (via the teleport link, for example), they can viewbomb it or put it up on (view-bombed?) fansites. And, right now, there's nothing you can do to prevent it from happening. Considering the various time zones people are in, we sometimes need to be able to keep our trades up over night - and a night usually lasts more than the 6 hours covered by Ward. So, we've got a problem.

[Yubelchen]

On 20.12.2017 at 10:01 PM, olympe said:

Honestly I would make any egg/hatchling in a teleport no longer gain views or clicks until the teleport ends or is cancelled.  However, its time would still continue to decrease as normal.

 

I support this, making eggs/hatchlings completly immun to sickness during teleport wouldnt make sense so dont give views/clicks is wonderful and would act like a fog without being fogged.

If said egg/hatchling is already sick, it will not protect them so it is a risk for giver/taker to take during teleport both should know about. Fogging an egg/hatchling during trade would make people fog sick ones to trick the other one, so just dont give views/clicks is the perfect solution to this and to fight viewbombing when putting the trade up on EATW.

[DragonLady86]

Honestly, I had the same thoughts as Starscream.  "If this goes through and I have things I'm worried about, I'll just stick them in a teleport link till their young enough to ER".  Not that I have a lot of problems with sickness, even with all the cases this year I managed to not get hit.  But whether it's this idea or a boost in wards protection time something needs to be done.  The recent attacks prove that.  Completely support.

[Guillotine]

Yeah, but like people have said: you can already do that with fogging, you're just now using a BSA slot for the time it takes to get that old. Effectively, nothing would change except that you and you alone are more inconvenienced by using teleport instead of hide.
 

[DragonLady86]

5 minutes ago, Guillotine said:

Yeah, but like people have said: you can already do that with fogging, you're just now using a BSA slot for the time it takes to get that old. Effectively, nothing would change except that you and you alone are more inconvenienced by using teleport instead of hide.
 

heh, I wasn't necessarily thinking it was an exploit.  If this is implemented, then it's not an exploit.  TJ knows full well some people would use it as such.   It would however, be faster to make 1 or 2 teleports then it is to fog everything individually.  Which is why I would use it. I've got about 8 or 9 magi's and the only time I even come close to running out of teleports is Halloween.  So why not?

Edited December 29, 2017 by DragonLady86

[VixenDra]

I'd just remove death of sickness tbh. It does NOTHING FOR the game, only for 3rd party trolling instead.

->Even if that would mean players putting new eggs to all possible hatcheries trying to hatch them faster, the timer would still do its thing and prevent the eggs' hatching before the 4d mark. So no new in-game abuse possibility exchanged for removing abuse possibility by a third party.

 

Fogging is no a sollution, neither is Ward - I'm reffering to the latest events with EATW: All it takes is a clicksite you use being viewbombed out of a sudden - like it was with EATW. Players just put their eggs there as always, who would have thought of fogging a 3d egg when trying to hatch it with EATW as their usual, which normally would take half an hour at the very least? You just put them and leave for a while to come back to an unlocked scroll... And such eggs were also dying within minutes - and all because some 3rd party manipulated with the hatchery:/ those who lost their eggs there could not have known before their eggs, including the ERs, died, and you don't fog nor Ward a below 4d egg you're trying to hatch.

 

People aren't loosing eggs to sickness due to their own mistakes or neglec (with an exception of newbies and newbies only due to lack of knowledge only, it's not worth it!)... they are loosing them due to other people's abuse of that faulty mechanincs.

 

If death of sicnkess is removed, no more additional teleport protection(protection which wouldn't protect the critter when the trade is accepted and you're offline and get unlucky anyway...) would be needed. DC's problem is the mechanics of death of sickness that is abused by 3rd party trolls to the disadvantage of other players only. I will never understand why it takes TJ so long to realise this mechanics is nothing but cancer and needs to be removed asap.

 

 

And I never lost an egg to sickness myself, no matter what I've been doing. I only loose stuff to the timer going down (so eggs die and freezing-intended hatchies grow up) when I forget about this game and to the auto-abandon itself. Never to too many views (even when I was try-harding to viewbomb a zombie fodder)... Lucky me I guess. All it takes to change that stat of mine is to troll me directly or "hack" a hatchery when I'm happening to be using it. And nothing else. Way too many people didn't have that luck... TJ, think it over, plz - for the sake of the good of our own game.

Edited December 29, 2017 by VixenDra

[DragonLady86]

Only time I remember losing eggs to sickness was the lag monster.  because there were too few eggs in the hatchery and I was too new to know better.  As someone who uses refreshers to "viewbomb" my own scroll it really takes a lot to truly hurt something.  (can't say how many hatchlings I had grow up instead of die when trying for Halloween zombies in past years lol)

 

Can't say I wouldn't mind doing away with sickness all together.  but something, please?

[cyradis4]

And..... With the return of the Holidays, the Viewbombers have once again turned up. Now, fog and Ward work, for eggs that you can hide. Those being attacked this time are using that. 

 

But when you hide an egg..... you can't use Teleport. So..... Asking for this or something similar. We can Ward an egg that is fogged, why not teleport one? 

 

Cheers!
C4. 

[OMGitsKairi]

I agree wholeheartedly with this suggestion. There have been several situations where I've had nice things

for trade but have been petrified that they would be targeted. This would definitely give me some peace of

mind, and I'm sure others as well.

[HeatherMarie]

I have broken teleports multiple times in order to hide eggs overnight because I was too afraid they'd get viewbombed while I was asleep. I often hide my eggs overnight, that's just normal for me, but having to break a teleport in order to do so, which means editing any trade posts and PMing any user I was establishing a trade with and wasting a whole heck of a lot of time since no one can offer on the teleport overnight... That's very, very frustrating. Especially during holidays when there is such a limited window of opportunity! I really really wish we could get *something* to help protect our babies while they are in teleports.

[Confused Cat]

Maybe just a checkbox when creating the teleport, "prevent eggs and hatchlings in this teleport from gaining views while the teleport is active"?

[JavaTigress]

On 12/24/2017 at 3:36 PM, Starscream said:

I am not opposed. But I am going to play devils advocate here -  my inner Starscream suggests I poke holes in this.

 

I'm going to go with the not fogging it while in teleport for this, I am not sure if that would work anyway - I see the value of doing it so you don't need to kill a teleport to protect it - not sure if it could make a break in the ability to see hidden stuff (through bugs)

 

But what I think is what is stopping someone from using their Teleport to essentially stasis lock their hatching in a protection without actively seeking a teleport partner? I don't do a lot of teleporting and it suddenly ran through my mind "Great! I can simply hide my eggs in a teleport to protect them from harm and still be able to show off my little jewels. Glee!" sure the counter goes down, but now I want to run my egg into the ER, and I kill the teleport, pop it into a er and, bobs your uncle, I've protected it in a manner that might be better than ward. And if they still could get views, its still better than ward -  and the cool down is cheap too.

 

So, out side of my sense of fair play, what is stopping me from using teleport as another method protect my eggs, through an abuse of a game mechanic, from view bombing or sickness from disgruntled or prankish players?

 

I am just putting that there as food for thought, I am not opposed to this idea - I don't want this idea broken or abused.

Just bumping this thread, because as a matter of fact, I LIKE Lady Lyzar's suggestion that eggs or hatchies are not able to collect views/ clicks while on teleport.

 

I have heard MANY people complain of trades getting messed up because SOMEONE tossed an egg on trade in a hatchery.

 

FURTHER @Starscream I am not even sure that I see what you suggest as abuse. Or even UNFAIR per se... I would have A LOT less problem with someone using a teleport as a 'stasis' of sorts to protect their eggs and hatchies, the way you describe in my quote of you above, than I do with viewbombers, for absolute certain. *Shrugs* maybe I am missing something but I don't even see that as that big of a problem... especially if a person is being routinely targeted ( AND it honestly DOES seem like it is often the case that it is particular people that are being repeatedly targeted.) MORE tools to keep viewbombing in check is a win in my book. AND let us face it... those sorts are NOT playing 'fair' when they do what they do. *Points to the bringing down of Eggs Around the World  as example and the many eggs and hatchies that died as a result* SINCE tracking down the culprits and punishing them isn't always possible...as I understand in MANY of such cases it is NOT... the more and better tools we have to combat it, the better, I say.

 

DOWN with viewbombers.

Edited February 20, 2018 by JavaTigress

[olympe]

Have to agree with JavaTigress here. And even though I totally would support removal of death from sickness (and instead, maybe render sick eggs unable to hatch), I think at least giving us a way to trade safely will do the trick. So, either make eggs/hatchlings in teleports safe, or allow us to fog them despite being in a teleport (with lineage view still enabled).

[cyradis4]

I honestly don't see Starscream's point (valid though it is) as abuse. 

 

Think of it this way: 

If there were no view bombers, would this help in any way?  

It won't prevent eggs from dying.

It won't help eggs that are really sick.

It would work exactly like Fog does now, you can just see the egg's lineage. The difference between this and Fog? Fog is free. This costs a Magi dragon. 

So comparing it to Ward isn't really accurate. Ward helps heal an egg (after a fashion). This would just hide it.... like the already free Fog does. 

Fog is also easier to implement and change. 

The one advantage I can see of this over regular Fog is that you can "hide" 4 eggs at once. So it'd save a couple clicks.... but it also links those 4 so you can't undo one without undoing all 4. 

 

So while most people would choose to use Fog over this if they weren't trading, even those who did choose to "abuse" it and not use it to trade would find that it provides a very tiny time savings when fogging all your eggs.... and that's about it. Which honestly, I don't see as a bad thing. It is certainly a very tiny thing compared to the amount of viewbombing. Yep, I've been hit more than once. Normally I just laugh it off, but a few years ago it cost me a lucrative trade when an ER hatchie inexplicably ended up in various hatcheries. 

 

Cheers!
C4. 

 

[stagazer_7]

On 12/29/2017 at 3:27 AM, DragonLady86 said:

Honestly, I had the same thoughts as Starscream.  "If this goes through and I have things I'm worried about, I'll just stick them in a teleport link till their young enough to ER". 

This was my first thought as well. Teleport would take the effect ward should have - don't get me wrong, I'm not against any idea that would effectively stop eggs from getting sick and I'd probably use it in this way too (it's finally give my Magi's something to do), but wouldn't it make more sense to simply make Ward more effective? Because in its current form, the protection it offers is simply to short (six hours isn't even enough to safely leave your eggs over night while you sleep +  it can be only used once per egg, so it's usefulness is severely hampered,). Why not alter the already existing code and make Ward be able to protect for 12-24 hrs and be able to be cast more then once per egg and solve the problem?

[HeatherMarie]

39 minutes ago, stagazer_7 said:

This was my first thought as well. Teleport would take the effect ward should have - don't get me wrong, I'm not against any idea that would effectively stop eggs from getting sick and I'd probably use it in this way too (it's finally give my Magi's something to do), but wouldn't it make more sense to simply make Ward more effective? Because in its current form, the protection it offers is simply to short (six hours isn't even enough to safely leave your eggs over night while you sleep +  it can be only used once per egg, so it's usefulness is severely hampered,). Why not alter the already existing code and make Ward be able to protect for 12-24 hrs and be able to be cast more then once per egg and solve the problem?

 

That wouldn't really solve the issue of dragons getting sick while in Teleport, though. If you already have a dragon in Teleport and it gets sick, you have to cancel the Teleport in order to Ward it (or fog it). I very much support extending Ward's time, but that isn't going to help the issue here, unless you Ward every single dragon you put in Teleport before you put them in Teleport regardless of whether they are sick or not. Of course, if the Teleport mechanics were changed so that we *could* Ward/fog/etc while the dragon is in Teleport, that would definitely solve the issue... But as it stands now, Ward isn't a solution for this.

[stagazer_7]

14 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

That wouldn't really solve the issue of dragons getting sick while in Teleport, though. If you already have a dragon in Teleport and it gets sick, you have to cancel the Teleport in order to Ward it (or fog it). I very much support extending Ward's time, but that isn't going to help the issue here, unless you Ward every single dragon you put in Teleport before you put them in Teleport regardless of whether they are sick or not. Of course, if the Teleport mechanics were changed so that we *could* Ward/fog/etc while the dragon is in Teleport, that would definitely solve the issue... But as it stands now, Ward isn't a solution for this.

I don't really see a problem here, you'd simply remember to Ward your eggs (it'd have to apply for hatchies as well, like I said Ward in its current form is not as useful as it could be) before casting Teleport and it wouldn't get sick in the first place. Sure, it'd take a bit of foreplanning, but so does trading and creating teleport links, people would just use one BSA after another. But sure, if Whites could cast Ward on teleported eggs as well that'd be perfectly fine by me, the simpler the better - and if that's too difficult to code, making a new teleport for a newly Warded egg isn't exactly something too difficult imo.

 

My reasoning here is - Teleport is for teleporting eggs, that's what it does. Ward is the BSA that was given to us to help protect all growing things from sickness, but in its current form it's too short and too severely limited to be really useful. While I'd be perfectly fine if eggs were invulnerable under the protection of the teleport spell, I still feel that should be Ward's function. But I'd be fine with anything really.

[HeatherMarie]

7 hours ago, stagazer_7 said:

I don't really see a problem here, you'd simply remember to Ward your eggs (it'd have to apply for hatchies as well, like I said Ward in its current form is not as useful as it could be) before casting Teleport and it wouldn't get sick in the first place. Sure, it'd take a bit of foreplanning, but so does trading and creating teleport links, people would just use one BSA after another. But sure, if Whites could cast Ward on teleported eggs as well that'd be perfectly fine by me, the simpler the better - and if that's too difficult to code, making a new teleport for a newly Warded egg isn't exactly something too difficult imo.

 

My reasoning here is - Teleport is for teleporting eggs, that's what it does. Ward is the BSA that was given to us to help protect all growing things from sickness, but in its current form it's too short and too severely limited to be really useful. While I'd be perfectly fine if eggs were invulnerable under the protection of the teleport spell, I still feel that should be Ward's function. But I'd be fine with anything really.

 

But Ward isn't really meant to be used on every single dragon you have, at least you shoudn't have to, imo. The site says this:

 

Ward
Can be performed on: Eggs
Usage Limitations: Once per two weeks per dragon, each egg can only be warded once
Prevents an egg from dying of sickness for six hours.

 

There really shouldn't be a need to use Ward on dragons that are *not* sick, especially if you don't have them in any hatcheries. Ward is for helping a sick egg get better, not for preemptively protecting every single dragon you want to Teleport. Sure it *could* be used that way, but I honestly don't think we should need to. If we could just stop dragons in Teleport from gaining views (my preferred method) then we wouldn't have to rely on constantly using a BSA for something it's not actually meant for. I'd love it if Ward could be cast on dragons in Teleport, but as you said Ward is currently very limited in it's usefulness, so that's not really much of a solution either. 

 

The issue is, for people who trade a lot, using Ward on every single dragon you put into a Teleport is not really feasible or simple at all, especially with a cooldown of two weeks. And maybe you don't mind it, but imo it's *very* annoying to have to cancel a Teleport link just because someone viewbombed your eggs. You have to edit your trade post, or PM the person you were going to trade with, to explain that you had to cancel and fog because some mean person wants to kill it, and then wait 12+ hours before you can unfog and re-make the Teleport... That's a lot of time and effort wasted.

[SamuelMaybird]

On 12/29/2017 at 7:25 AM, VixenDra said:

I'd just remove death of sickness tbh. It does NOTHING FOR the game, only for 3rd party trolling instead.

->Even if that would mean players putting new eggs to all possible hatcheries trying to hatch them faster, the timer would still do its thing and prevent the eggs' hatching before the 4d mark. So no new in-game abuse possibility exchanged for removing abuse possibility by a third party.

 

Fogging is no a sollution, neither is Ward - I'm reffering to the latest events with EATW: All it takes is a clicksite you use being viewbombed out of a sudden - like it was with EATW. Players just put their eggs there as always, who would have thought of fogging a 3d egg when trying to hatch it with EATW as their usual, which normally would take half an hour at the very least? You just put them and leave for a while to come back to an unlocked scroll... And such eggs were also dying within minutes - and all because some 3rd party manipulated with the hatchery:/ those who lost their eggs there could not have known before their eggs, including the ERs, died, and you don't fog nor Ward a below 4d egg you're trying to hatch.

 

People aren't loosing eggs to sickness due to their own mistakes or neglec (with an exception of newbies and newbies only due to lack of knowledge only, it's not worth it!)... they are loosing them due to other people's abuse of that faulty mechanincs.

 

If death of sicnkess is removed, no more additional teleport protection(protection which wouldn't protect the critter when the trade is accepted and you're offline and get unlucky anyway...) would be needed. DC's problem is the mechanics of death of sickness that is abused by 3rd party trolls to the disadvantage of other players only. I will never understand why it takes TJ so long to realise this mechanics is nothing but cancer and needs to be removed asap.

 

 

And I never lost an egg to sickness myself, no matter what I've been doing. I only loose stuff to the timer going down (so eggs die and freezing-intended hatchies grow up) when I forget about this game and to the auto-abandon itself. Never to too many views (even when I was try-harding to viewbomb a zombie fodder)... Lucky me I guess. All it takes to change that stat of mine is to troll me directly or "hack" a hatchery when I'm happening to be using it. And nothing else. Way too many people didn't have that luck... TJ, think it over, plz - for the sake of the good of our own game.

This, all of hecking this right here. 

 

Remove the problem that viewbombers are exploiting and they can't do anything. It wouldn't matter if they blasted an egg, it wouldn't die because the death from sickness is removed.

 

If TJ's own eggs have that, because he knows excited user base explodes his views, then why not just get rid of the concept in general.

 

It does hurt people and cause unnecessary stress. How in the heck is that fun on a site about pixel dragons?

 

I add my two cents because someone is targeting me and I have no idea why. I don't like having to fog everything when I never had to. I don't like feeling nervous leaving anyone unfogged while I'm at work or sleeping. I had to lock my scroll, I've never had to do that! I despise this malicious activity.

 

On discord we've had to lock down our phone book because of the view bombing attack. We've found a Tumblr that only exists for viewbombing. It advertises that that's its whole existence is to viewbomb users. Why, why does any of this have to happen?

[JavaTigress]

14 minutes ago, SamuelMaybird said:

This, all of hecking this right here. 

 

Remove the problem that viewbombers are exploiting and they can't do anything. It wouldn't matter if they blasted an egg, it wouldn't die because the death from sickness is removed.

 

If TJ's own eggs have that, because he knows excited user base explodes his views, then why not just get rid of the concept in general.

 

It does hurt people and cause unnecessary stress. How in the heck is that fun on a site about pixel dragons?

 

I add my two cents because someone is targeting me and I have no idea why. I don't like having to fog everything when I never had to. I don't like feeling nervous leaving anyone unfogged while I'm at work or sleeping. I had to lock my scroll, I've never had to do that! I despise this malicious activity.

 

On discord we've had to lock down our phone book because of the view bombing attack. We've found a Tumblr that only exists for viewbombing. It advertises that that's its whole existence is to viewbomb users. Why, why does any of this have to happen?

EXCELLENT questions.

 

I mean. EVEN if the mechanic serves a purpose ( AND I am guessing it does or TJ wouldn't have included just for kicks and LULs), it is CLEAR that people are SERIOUSLY abusing it. ON that point I can surely agree. I would say there MIGHT be another way of achieving the stated goal of sickness ( ensuring peeps actually pay attention tot heir eggies and actually give the feel, as some have mentioned, of actually raising something) WITHOUT enabling trolls?

Edited February 24, 2018 by JavaTigress

[Tears in Rain]

I like the teleport 'fog' idea, major support  This version of the suggestion is not only useful against view bombing in terms of sickness and dragon death, but would also help against low-view eggs and hatchlings being added to sites to grow up sooner than the trader intended. 

[Draconiusultamius]

I would say yes to LadyLyzar's solution, but I think the egg/hatchling in question should only be unable to gain views for a certain period of time following someone looking at it.  Otherwise, it becomes way too convenient for people to exploit.  If you actually needed to trade, how about 24hrs after the link is viewed by someone on another account before the egg starts gaining views?  The only other problem I can see with this is that it would wreak havoc on ND experimentation.  We usually create the tp and then pop it into the AR and hatcheries.  This would practically kill the ND as an obtainable breed.  Thus I'm really strongly against it unless we have a choice to enable or disable it.

[JavaTigress]

12 minutes ago, Draconiusultamius said:

I would say yes to LadyLyzar's solution, but I think the egg/hatchling in question should only be unable to gain views for a certain period of time following someone looking at it.  Otherwise, it becomes way too convenient for people to exploit.  If you actually needed to trade, how about 24hrs after the link is viewed by someone on another account before the egg starts gaining views?  The only other problem I can see with this is that it would wreak havoc on ND experimentation.  We usually create the tp and then pop it into the AR and hatcheries.  This would practically kill the ND as an obtainable breed.  Thus I'm really strongly against it unless we have a choice to enable or disable it.

Ummmm.. Forgive my ignorance, and I am no expert on NDs.

 

BUT....my question IS why the ND experiment NEEDS to be on teleport?

I legitimately don't understand the reason ?

 

MIND YOU! I wouldn't be opposed if this were implemented as an OPTION as opposed tot he normal course of things.

Edited February 24, 2018 by JavaTigress

[Fuzzbucket]

Just now, JavaTigress said:

Ummmm.. Forgive my ignorance, and I am no expert on NDs.

 

BUT....my question IS why the ND experiment NEEDS to be on teleport?

I legitimately don't understand the reason ?

 

We aren't allowed to discuss it... you have PM.