ANSWERED:Don't count old frozen CB holidays towards the breed limit

[olympe]

31 minutes ago, herk said:

If it could be accomplished I'd say do away with freezies counting towards limits at all - you could collect as many CB frozens as you like and I'd get my 2nd CB adult. (If you are at the adult limit and a 3rd would grow up it would get auto'd). 

Functionality aside, this would still favor one style of playing over another, and quite heavily. Why should you be able to collect endless CBs just because you freeze them while others are limited to 2 because they don't freeze?

 

37 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

Christmas is supposed to be about generosity--is letting people keep old frozens, who have no use aside sentiment, REALLY such a horrible thing to allow?

Well, slippery slope "fallacy" aside, you already see what other suggestions/demands spring from that seemingly fair suggestion you support.

[Herk]

Just now, olympe said:

Functionality aside, this would still favor one style of playing over another, and quite heavily. Why should you be able to collect endless CBs just because you freeze them while others are limited to 2 because they don't freeze?

 

 

Just to be clear my point is: IT DOESN'T MATTER what lineage a freezie has. I know of exactly one player who insists on freezing CBs. They would profit from being able to freeze 'endlessly' and their goal is the usual 3 or would be 2 for most holidays. The fact that one of my freezies is CB from way back when we had an overall limit of two and therefor holiday lineage breeding wasn't a thing really has no relevance to you. The way it is now our playstyle is punished HEAVILY for a decision we made when the rules were different. So the 'this favours a playstyle' argument doesn't hold with me - sorry. As ADP pointed out we've been disadvantaged basically from the moment the limits were kicked.

 

Yes, I could kick my named and described and sentimentally valued freezies and get a messy to freeze and a new CB and it would only double the amount of raising time I would have to invest and put more work on the description moderators (and I might have to change descriptions because some of them are so old THOSE rules have changed too). 'Stealing' that extra CB from a newbie anyway. All so that the lineage of the freezie (which I don't care about at all and which doesn't matter for anything) after all that work is something different than CB. 

                                                                                                                                                                        

I think somehow not counting the (old) freezies would be overall LESS of a hassle for everyone involved.  *shrugs*

[angelicdragonpuppy]

6 minutes ago, herk said:

 

Just to be clear my point is: IT DOESN'T MATTER what lineage a freezie has. I know of exactly one player who insists on freezing CBs. They would profit from being able to freeze 'endlessly' and their goal is the usual 3 or would be 2 for most holidays. The fact that one of my freezies is CB from way back when we had an overall limit of two and therefor holiday lineage breeding wasn't a thing really has no relevance to you. The way it is now our playstyle is punished HEAVILY for a decision we made when the rules were different. So the 'this favours a playstyle' argument doesn't hold with me - sorry. As ADP pointed out we've been disadvantaged basically from the moment the limits were kicked.

 

Yes, I could kick my named and described and sentimentally valued freezies and get a messy to freeze and a new CB and it would only double the amount of raising time I would have to invest and put more work on the description moderators (and I might have to change descriptions because some of them are so old THOSE rules have changed too). 'Stealing' that extra CB from a newbie anyway. All so that the lineage of the freezie (which I don't care about at all and which doesn't matter for anything) after all that work is something different than CB. 

                                                                                                                                                                        

I think somehow not counting the (old) freezies would be overall LESS of a hassle for everyone involved.  *shrugs*

 

Yes yes yes yes yes!

 

And I'm not for endless CBs for freezing anyway, just disregarding the old ones. The way Christmas / Valentines work has changed TWICE now. I think a bit of leeway is acceptable given the radical changes that have happened. 

[deleted_account]

1 hour ago, herk said:

 

I would understand this if we still had an overall limit but I really can't see how a frozen CB is an advantage over a frozen messy. Frozens don't breed. I would GLADLY just swap lineages between my frozen CB and some random lineaged (messy) adult. Then I'd have 2 CB adults to breed and still have my described, sentimentally valued freezy.

 

If it could be accomplished I'd say do away with freezies counting towards limits at all - you could collect as many CB frozens as you like and I'd get my 2nd CB adult. (If you are at the adult limit and a 3rd would grow up it would get auto'd). 

 

So yeah count me as support if we can't get something even better

This.

It shouldn't matter if the frozen was old, it shoud matter that it is frozen at all, so not only the old players could have frozen CBs AND CB adults.

And I know of someone who would freze exactly 3CBs and raise 2CB adults.

 

2CBs a year would also be a good and fair alternative.

Edited December 19, 2017 by MhKhu

[olympe]

Actually, if you intend to get a 2nd CB adult, you can do so - just release the hatchling. We have limits, and we have a choice to do within them as we please. If you choose now to keep a CB freezie, that's your choice, and you will have to live with the consequences. And, just as a side note, I agree that you were punished (until now, that is) for a choice made under very different circumstances, which is why I support unfreezing and always have (with limits).

 

But the current suggestion - namely not counting old CB foeezies - causes a number of issues. Newer players feel disadvantaged because they cannot get a CB freezie plus the two adults if this gets implemented. (Don't make me hunt for quotes, it's in this very thread.) Others suggest to not count any CB freezies towards limits, while still limiting adults, also in this very thread. Actually, this latest suggestion has sprung up more than once by now. These things I am concerned about, which is why I cannot support your cause at all, even though I don't have any issues with the actual topic of this thread in itself. It's the consequences I'm worried about.

[PointOfOrigin]

One thing. No one ever expected for this to happen, just as we never expected for holiday bred limits to be removed. And the thing is, what if unfreezing is allowed? That would mean that everyione with a frozen CB hatchie can unfreeze them and have three CB holidays.

[Bison]

This would be a dream come true.

 

Back in the day you could only have two of each Christmas/Valentine's dragon, forever. If you wanted the hatchling sprite you were forced to freeze. There was no way around it; that's just how the game used to work. But times have changed and so many years have passed. I'd love to be able to create more lineages and gift/AP more cool 2nd gens but I'm stuck. I don't want to lose the dragons I've had for years. I'm very attached to them at this point.

 

If I have to I'll keep them and stay at a disadvantage. But I really wish this old remnant of the past would be updated to suit the way the game works now, which is so very very different from how it used to work then.

[stagazer_7]

I wouldn't mind if frozen hatchies wouldn't count toward holiday scroll limits. They are unbreedable sprites and don't really have any 'value' (aside sentimental ones). If CB frozen hatchies wouldn't count toward scroll limit, it wouldn't disadvantage anyone, not even players who don't have any frozen CB's (like me) - if I suddenly wanted a frozen CB hatchie sprite, I could choose to release one of my CB adults, grab a new egg, hatch it and freeze the hatchie and then catch a new egg to raise to adulthood - and voila, I'd have a CB hacthie and all the adults spites too. Obviously I don't intend to do anything like this since I prefer freezing messies, but to each his own.

 

Edited for typoes

Edited December 19, 2017 by stagazer_7

[The Dragoness]

1 hour ago, PointOfOrigin said:

One thing. No one ever expected for this to happen, just as we never expected for holiday bred limits to be removed. And the thing is, what if unfreezing is allowed? That would mean that everyione with a frozen CB hatchie can unfreeze them and have three CB holidays.

I think extra CB adults would need to be automatically released in a situation like this, otherwise old players would have a huge advantage. I'm all for letting old frozen CBs be unfrozen, but no one should be allowed more than 2 CB, breedable adults as long as the limit is in place.

[stagazer_7]

10 minutes ago, The Dragoness said:

I think extra CB adults would need to be automatically released in a situation like this, otherwise old players would have a huge advantage. I'm all for letting old frozen CBs be unfrozen, but no one should be allowed more than 2 CB, breedable adults as long as the limit is in place.

Agreed.

[Zeditha]

I fully support this, even though I don't Freeze. The way the game is now very much puts those with a Freezing playstyle at a disadvantage, and this would 'level the playing field' as it were.

 

If this is implemented and then later an Unfreeze is as well, how I'd handle it is by simply putting up a message if you try to Unfreeze while you have 2 CB Adults: "Sorry, you are currently at the limit (2) for this breed. To unfreeze this hatchling you will have to release one of your current adults."

Maybe there could be an option (after a message to the above effect) to unfreeze and immediately release, but I don't really see the point of that. Simply not allowing it would be better, IMO.

 

But honestly that's a problem I'd like to have.

[Dragon_Arbock]

@olympe there already are other things new players can't get- every CB dragon you and I and everyone here owns from before Biomes. CB Female 'Cave' biome dragons are special in the way they breed with Male coppers.

 

I don't really see how something as minor as an old frozen hatchling hurts anyone any more than that.

[olympe]

Yes, there are a few things. However, I doubt that CB females from the Cave are such a big thing in the long run, considering that their "special trait" is only relevant for breeding coppers. Just like with true CB vampires. Or biome-born old CB holidays (between "The Change" and holiday re-releases).

 

But this discussion is about making an exception for holiday limits for certain circumstances, and even about adding circumstances for unlimited holidays (as long as they're frozen). And I have to ask: Why make it an exception? Wouldn't a general change in holiday limits (unlimited, +2/year, 2 growing things per breed...) be a much better solution for everyone involved? Also, please note that I'm not opposed to disregarding old frozen hatchlings for the limits due to circumstances. Just like there are black sweetlings due to circumstances. These extenuationg circumstances are the reason why I fully support Unfreezing, too.

 

Also, "it doesn't hurt anyone" isn't really enough reason to implement anything new. And, considering in which direction this suggestion is being pushed - I'm not too happy. Because people are already pushing for unlimited CB freezies.

 

And, just one question for the "who does it hurt" crowd: Who does it hurt if 50 or 100 or more players with good catching ability decide to freeze as many CB hollies as they can? Hmm? Because they seem to be awfully hard to catch right now without "practically unlimited".

[Dragon_Arbock]

3 minutes ago, olympe said:

But this discussion is about making an exception for holiday limits for certain circumstances, and even about adding circumstances for unlimited holidays (as long as they're frozen). And I have to ask: Why make it an exception? Wouldn't a general change in holiday limits (unlimited, +2/year, 2 growing things per breed...) be a much better solution for everyone involved? Also, please note that I'm not opposed to disregarding old frozen hatchlings for the limits due to circumstances. Just like there are black sweetlings due to circumstances. These extenuationg circumstances are the reason why I fully support Unfreezing, too.

 

Actually, affects breeding Xenowyrms too, and that goes for both genders.

 

But, to be clear- I only want the exception for old frozens. I realize that if the exception is made for all frozens, including new, it would be abusable.

Limit raise would be preferred, but who knows if that'll happen.

[Guillotine]

Yeah, I don't see why new frozens would be involved in this, or why they were brought up at all considering that the thread is about the old ones.
 

[Dragon_Arbock]

Someone got confused thinking that if they were at their CB limit they couldn't freeze hatchlings at all, not realizing they could easily freeze lineaged ones.

Was a misunderstanding that spiraled out of control

Edited December 20, 2017 by Dragon_Arbock

[Cassie_Fenix]

I'm one of those old players who froze my second hatchling to have the sprite, but sometimes I wish I didn't, especially with the Alt Sweetlings, since those are some pretty rare dragons indeed... And I don't want to release the CB hatchling that I have already frozen, but being able to pick up one more Sweetling egg or unfreeze said hatchling would fix the problem, and I wouldn't have to lose anything (aside from getting another Gen 2 frozen hatchling, but those are easy to come by).

 

Still, I can see the pros and cons of this, especially for people who are just joining this site. One idea I have is that perhaps you could have a choice of which frozen hatchling of the older ones you could unfreeze, but you have a cooldown until the next time that holiday comes around to unfreeze another dragon of the same holiday. For example, say I wanted to unfreeze my frozen Alt Sweetling, and this was implemented this next Valentines. If for say, I wanted to do the same for another frozen old CB Valentine's dragon, I would have to wait until 2019 to do so.

 

It's similar to how it already works for freezing/killing a hatchling, but it makes us think if we want to keep a hatchling frozen or want to allow it to grow up.

[Paradisiske]

im against this 100%. just ask for an unfreeze option and have your two like the rest of us. it sucks that you froze i know when you thought you would never be able to get cbs again. but getting an extra cb over the rest of us wont make it right or fair. yeah a hatchling is different from an adult but a cb is still a cb. you can't trade either and only the adult can breed but you are still having something over the rest of us that you didnt win or earn like the prize dragons. 

 

or better yet, get rid of the limits entirely. if not then either release the frozen hatchie and get 2 cb adults like the rest of us or keep the frozen hatchie and your one adult. 

[TJ09]

I don't think some form of "special exception" is necessary here. Why only CBs? Why only frozen hatchlings? It creates extra confusion when some people are allowed up to 4 CBs for reasons that are not immediately visible.

 

There are other ways of solving this (such as supporting unfreezing hatchlings) that would accomplish the job in a more fair and...I guess elegant? manner.