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Snow Angel Breed

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38 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

How are you envisioning the Influence to work? From what I've read in this thread it's been suggested that an adult SA could influence an egg to be the adult's color... But that would mean you'd have to already *have* an adult SA of that color. The way you say "if this was your first" makes me think you are suggesting an Influence option independent of adult SA's, but I haven't seen that option really talked about here (although it's possible it was and I've just forgotten). If that's the case, how would it work?

 

That is probably my misunderstanding.

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6 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

With this, you look at the parent and then decide from there if you want to influence.  I don't think it would be feasible to endlessly influence to be different colors and I imagine that you can only do this once per adult snow angel so it would be a waste to just influence an egg and toss it.

 

The bsa should only be applicable on your scroll--like pinks (except the color of the original scroll sticks, letting you go from there).For example, I have gold. She breeds more gold. That is default. That year, I pick up white wing. I let her grow up. Her default babies will be white, but I can influence them to be gold if they stay on my scroll.

 

No, what I'm saying is, if it's based off of the scroll the egg is bred on, I have no way of knowing, a year from now, if the mother of this AP egg is the breeder's scroll color or if she was bred on another scroll or influenced when she was an egg (unless she was born before the change occurred). It works fine if you're trading eggs directly from breeders, but anyone who plays solo or just plain likes AP hunting is going to have trouble.

 

If they breed true, then I know that the egg will hatch to be the mother's color, and can influence it if I want it to be a different color. I can take an egg out of the AP, and without contacting the breeder I already know what it'll hatch into by default. I am in support of them breeding true and influence being available. What I don't want is it being based off of the scroll they were bred on.

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@Ariento- I imagine the bsa working like this:

 

You have all your eggs and they have their default wing colors listed. And then if you want to influence the color, you see this after selecting influence: "[Snow Angel] would like to use her winter powers to influence the egg to be (default scroll color). Proceed?" And then, after you proceed, it says "[Snow Angel] uses her winter powers to influence  (egg code) to be (color). This will remain in effect as long as the egg is on your scroll."

 

Edit: I imagine eggs can either be default mom colors/ CBs default scroll colors or influenced to be the scroll color. 

 

 

Edited by Jazeki
Autocorrect

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I wish there was a way to ping everyone in the thread without having to type this out myself;

@Jazeki @purplehaze @fuzzbucket  @Ariento @Ruby Eyes @The Dragoness @Guillotine @LibbyLishly @Marie19R

Myself and one other person have suggested this- make eggs breed true, to match the color of the parent, but also add the BSA that lets you influence the egg to be the color you want. Breeding true is very simple and does not require any trading (which will be hard to manage during the holidays), and by having the BSA you can still make alternating lines if you really want to. Can also be used to get different color CBs assuming we can get more CBs in the following years.

(mass ping cause I've only seen like two people even comment on this idea).

 

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1 minute ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

I wish there was a way to ping everyone in the thread without having to type this out myself;

@Jazeki @purplehaze @fuzzbucket  @Ariento @Ruby Eyes @The Dragoness @Guillotine @LibbyLishly @Marie19R

Myself and one other person have suggested this- make eggs breed true, to match the color of the parent, but also add the BSA that lets you influence the egg to be the color you want. Breeding true is very simple and does not require any trading (which will be hard to manage during the holidays), and by having the BSA you can still make alternating lines if you really want to. Can also be used to get different color CBs assuming we can get more CBs in the following years.

(mass ping cause I've only seen like two people even comment on this idea).

 

I don't know why I was pinged as I already addressed your suggestion (and mentioned that I was in support of it). I was simply expounding upon my own suggestion when it was asked about. 

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32 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

@Ariento- I imagine the bsa working like this:

 

You have all your eggs and they have their default wing colors listed. And then if you want to influence the color, you see this after selecting influence: "[Snow Angel] would like to use her winter powers to influence the egg to be (default scroll color). Proceed?" And then, after you proceed, it says "[Snow Angel] uses her winter powers to influence  (egg code) to be (color). This will remain in effect as long as the egg is on your scroll."

 

Edit: I imagine eggs can either be default mom colors/ CBs default scroll colors or influenced to be the scroll color. 

 

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I AGREE bred eggs should be by default mom's color. You should be able to easily predict what wing color it will have, so you can decide whether it needs to be influenced. I haven't really spoken about how influence should work.

 

@Dragon_Arbock Yes, I agree that's the best way to have this.

 

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Just now, Ariento said:

 

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I AGREE bred eggs should be by default mom's color. You should be able to easily predict what wing color it will have, so you can decide whether it needs to be influenced. I haven't really spoken about how influence should work.

 

 

I understand what you were objecting to. I explained that with my version of the BSA, there would be no way to be confused about what the wing color would be because the BSA would tell you before influence so even if you did pick up a  tri-wing snow angel from a default gold scroll, you would know that the egg was going to be tri-wing because her mom was tri-wing. 

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Just now, Jazeki said:

I understand what you were objecting to. I explained that with my version of the BSA, there would be no way to be confused about what the wing color would be because the BSA would tell you before influence so even if you did pick up a  tri-wing snow angel from a default gold scroll, you would know that the egg was going to be tri-wing because her mom was tri-wing. 

 

That assumes you already have a Snow Angel. I don't. Lots of people don't. Being able to know if the egg will be the right color shouldn't require something not everyone has.

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Just now, Ariento said:

 

That assumes you already have a Snow Angel. I don't. Lots of people don't. Being able to know if the egg will be the right color shouldn't require something not everyone has.

All BSA require things not everyone has. And you've been here since 2011, you've have plenty of chance to get a bred one. And anyone getting SAs for the first time probably won't be too worried about lines of colors yet (and if they are they could trade).

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6 minutes ago, Ariento said:

 

That assumes you already have a Snow Angel. I don't. Lots of people don't. Being able to know if the egg will be the right color shouldn't require something not everyone has.

The use of the BSA requires a snow angel. I assumed that was a given. Therefore, if you don't have an adult snow angel, if you pick up a bred one, it defaults to the mom color. If you pick up a CB one, it defaults to your designated scroll color. If you pick up a snow angel that is bred earlier in the week, it will grow up and you can use the BSA for future eggs. 

Edited by Jazeki

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Just now, Dragon_Arbock said:

All BSA require things not everyone has. And you've been here since 2011, you've have plenty of chance to get a bred one. And anyone getting SAs for the first time probably won't be too worried about lines of colors yet (and if they are they could trade).

 

I haven't exactly been here "since 2011". I joined back then, and left when I no longer had time for the site. I only came back this October - I have never been here for a holiday until this Halloween.

 

All BSAs require things that not everyone has, yes - but with the exception of Aegises and their purely aesthetic BSA, they are all obtainable year round. Some are hard to get, like the legendary trio, and vampires can't be gotten from the cave at all, but they are available. Time is limited during the holidays. I don't want to waste my limited scroll space on a dragon that I'll just end up abandoning. I'm okay not being able to influence yet, if it'll be the wrong color I can simply throw it back. Having to hold on to it for 3-5 days only to find out it's the wrong color means I can't pick up something more valuable to me during that time.

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2 minutes ago, Ariento said:

 

I haven't exactly been here "since 2011". I joined back then, and left when I no longer had time for the site. I only came back this October - I have never been here for a holiday until this Halloween.

 

All BSAs require things that not everyone has, yes - but with the exception of Aegises and their purely aesthetic BSA, they are all obtainable year round. Some are hard to get, like the legendary trio, and vampires can't be gotten from the cave at all, but they are available. Time is limited during the holidays. I don't want to waste my limited scroll space on a dragon that I'll just end up abandoning. I'm okay not being able to influence yet, if it'll be the wrong color I can simply throw it back. Having to hold on to it for 3-5 days only to find out it's the wrong color means I can't pick up something more valuable to me during that time.

I'm guessing there would be an influence for me thread, just like there is for pinks, so you can ask someone else to influence it to be the color you want or simply check for you to see what color it will be. 

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Just now, Jazeki said:

I'm guessing there would be an influence for me thread, just like there is for pinks, so you can ask someone else to influence it to be the color you want or simply check for you to see what color it will be. 

 

I guess, but I'd rather not rely on other users to such a high degree.

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I guess the combination of "wing color breeds true" and "ability to influence" is the ideal way to go. By picking up offspring of all three variants, you can easily get all three variants within year one. Yet, at the same time, you'll be able to do alternating lines from year two of actually going for Snow Angels by using your adults to influence whatever needs influencing.

 

No need to rely on other users, no need to wait years to get every variety, all kinds of lineages are still possible (if not during the first year)  - I think it's the best solution we have thus far. Support.

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40 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

I don't know why I was pinged as I already addressed your suggestion (and mentioned that I was in support of it). I was simply expounding upon my own suggestion when it was asked about. 

 

I have no idea what pinging does, but as far as I can tell it did nothing to me. What's supposed to happen ?

 

20 minutes ago, Ariento said:

Time is limited during the holidays. I don't want to waste my limited scroll space on a dragon that I'll just end up abandoning. I'm okay not being able to influence yet, if it'll be the wrong color I can simply throw it back. Having to hold on to it for 3-5 days only to find out it's the wrong color means I can't pick up something more valuable to me during that time.

 

This, very much.

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20 minutes ago, fuzzbucket said:

 

I have no idea what pinging does, but as far as I can tell it did nothing to me. What's supposed to happen ?

Pinging is a notification. A number comes up on the bell icon on the top-right, and if your browser has notifications enabled, a small box may pop up. It also makes a noise to get attention.

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1 hour ago, Jazeki said:

@Ariento- I imagine the bsa working like this:

 

You have all your eggs and they have their default wing colors listed. And then if you want to influence the color, you see this after selecting influence: "[Snow Angel] would like to use her winter powers to influence the egg to be (default scroll color). Proceed?" And then, after you proceed, it says "[Snow Angel] uses her winter powers to influence  (egg code) to be (color). This will remain in effect as long as the egg is on your scroll."

 

Edit: I imagine eggs can either be default mom colors/ CBs default scroll colors or influenced to be the scroll color. 

 

 

 

Let's see if I can give my opinions on the recent suggestions. This first. You are saying here that if I get an egg that is, say, full-gold wings, then I can influence it to my default scroll color.... But *not* the third color. That's what I don't like about this. If my default scroll color is tri-colored, and out of 20 SA eggs picked up only one is defaulted as white, I can influence the others to be tri-colored but *not* white. It's different if we can choose which color to influence as, but that's not what you are saying here.

 

I think @Dragon_Arbock's idea would be the best way to do things, so you know what color the egg will be immediately and can influence it whatever way you want.

 

That said I still don't completely support this, and one of my reasons for non-support is what's been mentioned that you wouldn't have any control over the colors if you don't already have SA adults. I understand why it makes sense to have adult SA's have this Influence ability, but it's really not all that fair for the many many users who don't have any SAs. And yes, with other BSAs you can't use them if you don't have the specific breed, but this is *very* different since you can only *get* this breed one or two weeks out of the entire year.

Edited by Marie19R
typo

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1 minute ago, Marie19R said:

I think @Dragon_Arbock's idea would be the best way to do things, so you know what color the egg will be immediately and can influence it whatever way you want.

 

That said I still don't completely support this, and one of my reasons for non-support is what's been mentioned that you wouldn't have any control over the colors if you don't already have SA adults. I understand why it makes sense to have adult SA's have this Influence ability, but it's really not all that fair for the many many users who don't have any SAs. And yes, with other BSAs you can use them if you don't have the specific breed, but this is *very* different since you can only *get* this breed one or two weeks out of the entire year.

I would assume (but can't confirm), that you could get someone else to use the BSA for you, hatch it, and trade it back to you if you really need the help (like with normal influence). I suspect some people would be willing to do that.

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But then, again, you have to rely on someone else. While DC can be a generous community I don't like the idea of users *having* to rely on another user in order to use a feature. If you aren't on the forums it's extremely difficult to arrange something like that unless you have close friends who play. And Holidays are a very limited time and you'd be wasting an awful lot of time on both sides if you have to give someone else the egg and wait for it to hatch before you can get it back.

 

I'd be a little more supportive if the Influence action was an action on the actual SA eggs... Like on the egg's Action page, something like "use your magic to change this dragon's wing color" or whatever. I don't see any reason that couldn't work, we have strong enough magic to raise the dead so I'm sure something like changing wing color would be possible.

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3 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

But then, again, you have to rely on someone else. While DC can be a generous community I don't like the idea of users *having* to rely on another user in order to use a feature. If you aren't on the forums it's extremely difficult to arrange something like that unless you have close friends who play. And Holidays are a very limited time and you'd be wasting an awful lot of time on both sides if you have to give someone else the egg and wait for it to hatch before you can get it back.

 

I'd be a little more supportive if the Influence action was an action on the actual SA eggs... Like on the egg's Action page, something like "use your magic to change this dragon's wing color" or whatever. I don't see any reason that couldn't work, we have strong enough magic to raise the dead so I'm sure something like changing wing color would be possible.

I'm okay with relying on others if it only means you can get something faster. If relying on people is the only way you can get something (like the scroll hatching suggestion), then I'm against it. If you don't have what you need this year, you likely will next year. Yeah it's no fun holidays are so time-limited (if it were all month it might be better), but that's always how it's been.

 

I'm not sure it makes sense to give the egg the ability myself, but that can be debated.

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43 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

 

Let's see if I can give my opinions on the recent suggestions. This first. You are saying here that if I get an egg that is, say, full-gold wings, then I can influence it to my default scroll color.... But *not* the third color. That's what I don't like about this. If my default scroll color is tri-colored, and out of 20 SA eggs picked up only one is defaulted as white, I can influence the others to be tri-colored but *not* white. It's different if we can choose which color to influence as, but that's not what you are saying here.

 

I think @Dragon_Arbock's idea would be the best way to do things, so you know what color the egg will be immediately and can influence it whatever way you want.

 

That said I still don't completely support this, and one of my reasons for non-support is what's been mentioned that you wouldn't have any control over the colors if you don't already have SA adults. I understand why it makes sense to have adult SA's have this Influence ability, but it's really not all that fair for the many many users who don't have any SAs. And yes, with other BSAs you can't use them if you don't have the specific breed, but this is *very* different since you can only *get* this breed one or two weeks out of the entire year.

Really, I'd be okay with influencing to be all three colors, but that would have to happen if  you had adults of all three colors on your scroll already. I mean, if you only have tri adults right now, how would your snow angel be able to user her magic to make one white? I imagine it would have to work like @Dragon_Arbock mentioned where you have to rely on someone else's influence ability until you have all of the adult colors on your scroll. Whatever way we choose, I'd like it much better than having to wait until they gender or until alternating year colors to get them all. 

 

Also, while I feel for users who aren't on the forums, there are ways to figure out what's going on (like the news post or through other forums and communities), so we can't just turn something down because of the people who are inactive on the forums. I went through the first seven months of DC without a forum account and I was able to adapt. I'm sure that other users are just as smart. 

Edited by Jazeki

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Honestly, in the end, I really don't care how it's done so long as I can get all three wing colors and make lineages accordingly. SA BSA that I have to wait a year to use? Fine. Breeds true to the mother but can still be influenced? Fine, okay. Breeds true to my scroll default and keeps the unique breed heritage intact but can still be influenced somehow? Excellent. Scroll color rotates every three years? Fun new challenge! Need cooperation from other players? No problem. Can do everything solo? No worries.

 

I've gone this long with one wing color (and it happens to be my favorite). I can deal with pretty much whatever as long as I can get the other wing colors and make the lineages look the way I want them to.

Edited by LibbyLishly
A scroll is not a script.

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@Jazeki Well since we don't really have much info about SA's abilities or personality or anything we can only speculate, but I could speculate that wing-color is influenced by some chromosome-or-whatever and the adult SA would be able to use their magic to tweak it to display whatever color is available to be displayed (ie no purple wings, but any that are currently available). I definitely like the influence idea much better then waiting until they gender or alternating years, but I do think it could be done in a way that wouldn't make you *have* to rely on other users the first year (and possibly the second, until you get all three colors of adults).

 

I know that non-forum-users can't be the sole reason to turn down a suggestion, but I do think it should at least be addressed. Non-forum-users can see news posts, sure, but they can't connect with anyone on the forums in order to set up a trade. And it's not just the forum that I'm wary of, it's the fact that in ALL other ways DC is a very solitary game. Sure it's a *better* game in some ways if you have direct communication with other users, so you can trade for things you have a hard time catching, but you don't *have* to. There is no dragon currently available that you can *only* get by trading. If you don't want to interact with others at all you don't have to, and enough people drop wanted things in the AP that you can pick them up there without actually communicating with anyone. I just don't like the idea of having something implemented where you have to either wait multiple *years* to get all available colors or rely on some stranger's generosity. I mean if that was the only possible way this could be implemented i guess I'd have to deal, but I think there are better ways to implement it.

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