Cross Breeding/Out Scroll Breeding/ User-to-User Breeding

[The Dragoness]

3 hours ago, fuzzbucket said:

I have a different scroll name from forum name. Precisely because I want my scroll and the forum to be separate. I know I am not alone.

So do I. I heard plenty of horrible stories about view bombing before I joined the forum, so I wanted to make sure no one could find my scroll unless I gave them my username. That's a big part of why I'm against this suggestion. I don't want to receive random requests from strangers who somehow found my scroll name and looked through all of my dragons. These days, I have too many important things growing on my scroll and I don't want to risk them dying because someone else got upset about a bad trade. I've already been viewbombed and harassed over saying no to breeding requests on the forum. No one should be opted in by default or even included in the trading system unless they agree to it. And, please, don't make this an in-game system. Teleport already works really well and could be added onto.

[Zeditha]

If this were to have an in-cave system, I would like to point out my earlier suggestion of a 'whitelist' and 'blacklist'; blacklisted users will never show up whatsoever unless you remove them from said list, and only whitelisted users' requests would show on the 'main' breeding requests page. Any requests from strangers will be separated by a further link.

The idea of this is that the more separated from the main page the information is, the less intrusive it is and therefore it should be less of a problem.

[Fuzzbucket]

You don't know who you need to blacklist until they do something that makes you want to blacklist them.

 

But yes - as separate as possible from the main page. That's called - do it in forum Alongside trading.

[olympe]

Just like teleports? That I could get behind.  (And, yes, my scroll and forum names are identical.)

 

[Tehya Faye]

I still think it'd be a decent extension to the Groups feature rather than relying on a BSA; it'd by nature be opt-in, so you wouldn't get randomly pestered, and rather than having to set everything up manually each time you could just set everything up once and not have to worry about it again. With a Public group you'd be able to limit requests only to those you give the link to; with a Highlighted group anyone who happens upon your scroll could make a request. It's far more flexible than a Teleport clone could ever be, opening up the feature to those outside of the forum without needing to implement any sort of messaging system to the cave itself, while still giving people the freedom to either ignore it completely or restrict it exclusively to their friends. 

[The Dragoness]

20 minutes ago, Tehya Faye said:

I still think it'd be a decent extension to the Groups feature rather than relying on a BSA; it'd by nature be opt-in, so you wouldn't get randomly pestered, and rather than having to set everything up manually each time you could just set everything up once and not have to worry about it again. With a Public group you'd be able to limit requests only to those you give the link to; with a Highlighted group anyone who happens upon your scroll could make a request. It's far more flexible than a Teleport clone could ever be, opening up the feature to those outside of the forum without needing to implement any sort of messaging system to the cave itself, while still giving people the freedom to either ignore it completely or restrict it exclusively to their friends. 

This sounds like it could work. The only problem I see with it is how would the visiting user offer their dragon up to breed? Would there just be a "request breeding" button or something of the like next to each dragon in the group?

 

Also, how would normal groups and breeding request groups be separated? Many people use groups to sort their dragons currently. I'm sure they wouldn't want all of those dragons to suddenly be up for breeding requests.

Edited November 15, 2017 by The Dragoness

[Tehya Faye]

20 minutes ago, The Dragoness said:

This sounds like it could work. The only problem I see with it is how would the visiting user offer their dragon up to breed? Would there just be a "request breeding" button or something of the like next to each dragon in the group?

 

Also, how would normal groups and breeding request groups be separated? Many people use groups to sort their dragons currently. I'm sure they wouldn't want all of those dragons to suddenly be up for breeding requests.

 

Yeah, it'd probably be simplest to have a Request Breeding button on the individual dragons in a Breeding Enabled Group, and you could view your requests either through a new page accessible through the main Groups hub or through a renamed Active Transfers on Account Settings. Maybe even via a link in the individual group's page, between Add Dragons and Delete, though if you have more than one group that has breeding enabled then you'd need to check each individual group as opposed to just one page. 

 

There'd be a box you'd need to check to allow breeding requests in the Group's settings, alongside Reverse Sort and Place Eggs and Hatchlings up on top. If that box isn't checked then no requests can be made. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Tehya Faye

[HeatherMarie]

Eh. I don't know. I guess that could work, but I still much prefer the teleport option. It's the best option to combat against unwanted harassment/requests/nagging. If I'm understanding the Groups idea correctly, if you check a "breeding available" type box in a specific group, then anyone who sees that group can request a breeding? I don't really like that. I understand that some people want this feature because they are interested in cross-scroll breeding in general, with pretty much anyone (or at least with many people). But not everyone sees it that way. With a Teleport link it's much more restricted, only people who have access to that link can make any requests/offers/whatever, and you have deliberately made that link so obviously you want those offers. With a simple full-group checkbox, that could mean dozens of ridiculous and unwanted requests on a group, and it seems like it would be a lot more time-consuming and annoying to set up anyways because you'd have to actually make the specific "breeding request dragons" group, add the dragons to it, check the box, make sure it's public or highlighted, etc etc... (Because I'd say most of us probably don't already have specific groups filled only with dragons we'd be open to breeding cross-scroll, so we would in fact have to create a separate group). And you'd have to toggle that checkbox on and off on that group whenever you aren't able or interested in cross-breeding at the moment (during holidays, if you are away from the computer for a few days, etc). I really think a simple Teleport link is so much simpler.

[AztecCroc]

1 hour ago, Marie19R said:

Eh. I don't know. I guess that could work, but I still much prefer the teleport option. It's the best option to combat against unwanted harassment/requests/nagging. If I'm understanding the Groups idea correctly, if you check a "breeding available" type box in a specific group, then anyone who sees that group can request a breeding? I don't really like that. I understand that some people want this feature because they are interested in cross-scroll breeding in general, with pretty much anyone (or at least with many people). But not everyone sees it that way. With a Teleport link it's much more restricted, only people who have access to that link can make any requests/offers/whatever, and you have deliberately made that link so obviously you want those offers. With a simple full-group checkbox, that could mean dozens of ridiculous and unwanted requests on a group, and it seems like it would be a lot more time-consuming and annoying to set up anyways because you'd have to actually make the specific "breeding request dragons" group, add the dragons to it, check the box, make sure it's public or highlighted, etc etc... (Because I'd say most of us probably don't already have specific groups filled only with dragons we'd be open to breeding cross-scroll, so we would in fact have to create a separate group). And you'd have to toggle that checkbox on and off on that group whenever you aren't able or interested in cross-breeding at the moment (during holidays, if you are away from the computer for a few days, etc). I really think a simple Teleport link is so much simpler.

Also another problem as an extension of the idea of it being scroll based and especially group based, rather than link and forum based, would mean that your scroll would have to be visible to do breeding requests, whereas with a link your scroll can be hidden without affecting functionality.

[Tehya Faye]

Oh, can you not see Public Groups while your scroll is hidden? If not then disregard my suggestion - I've only recently come back from a rather lengthy hiatus and wasn't aware. 

[Zeditha]

I actually really like this idea. At first I hated it, because you seemed to be suggesting that ALL groups would be available for requests, and some people make groups to sort dragons for their own reference or just to show off. Having breeding requests auto-enabled on those would be horrible.

 

But with the checkbox to turn on/off breeding requests, it becomes a lot better. I imagine I'd have a highlighted 'dragons for breeding' group and a public one that I would share to people I want to trade with, etc. And you wouldn't have to toggle the checkbox; you can always just ignore individual requests if you don't want them.

 

AztecCroc's point would be a problem, though. Unless... if you create a public group and give someone the link, is it still viewable even if your scroll is hidden? Obviously hiding your scroll would prevent anyone from just happening upon a highlighted group, but if you could still share public groups, then that serves the same functionality that you would presumably want.

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, Marie19R said:

Eh. I don't know. I guess that could work, but I still much prefer the teleport option. It's the best option to combat against unwanted harassment/requests/nagging. If I'm understanding the Groups idea correctly, if you check a "breeding available" type box in a specific group, then anyone who sees that group can request a breeding? I don't really like that. I understand that some people want this feature because they are interested in cross-scroll breeding in general, with pretty much anyone (or at least with many people). But not everyone sees it that way. With a Teleport link it's much more restricted, only people who have access to that link can make any requests/offers/whatever, and you have deliberately made that link so obviously you want those offers. With a simple full-group checkbox, that could mean dozens of ridiculous and unwanted requests on a group, and it seems like it would be a lot more time-consuming and annoying to set up anyways because you'd have to actually make the specific "breeding request dragons" group, add the dragons to it, check the box, make sure it's public or highlighted, etc etc... (Because I'd say most of us probably don't already have specific groups filled only with dragons we'd be open to breeding cross-scroll, so we would in fact have to create a separate group). And you'd have to toggle that checkbox on and off on that group whenever you aren't able or interested in cross-breeding at the moment (during holidays, if you are away from the computer for a few days, etc). I really think a simple Teleport link is so much simpler.

 

I agree with every word of this.

 

1 hour ago, AztecCroc said:

Also another problem as an extension of the idea of it being scroll based and especially group based, rather than link and forum based, would mean that your scroll would have to be visible to do breeding requests, whereas with a link your scroll can be hidden without affecting functionality.

 

This too - and with the bombing going on at the moment...

 

1 hour ago, Zeditha said:

AztecCroc's point would be a problem, though. Unless... if you create a public group and give someone the link, is it still viewable even if your scroll is hidden? Obviously hiding your scroll would prevent anyone from just happening upon a highlighted group, but if you could still share public groups, then that serves the same functionality that you would presumably want.

 

A public group is visible using its direct link (I just tested using two browsers) so you can share that - but if you go for the scroll name, nothing shows up. So you would have to use the forum to give out the links anyway - so please, if this is to happen, can it just be a teleport thing ?

[Tehya Faye]

Well, Public Groups would always need the link anyway - it's just Highlighted Groups you could view by visiting the Scroll page. That's why I can't agree with every word Marie19R wrote there - you wouldn't get a bunch of random unwanted requests because it'd be a link you deliberately created to share with very specific individuals. It wouldn't be any more open to nagging than a Teleport based system. Now whether it'd be a hassle to set up I wouldn't have a clue - if this were implemented I would just make my three holiday groups Highlighted during the month leading up to their events and Private the rest of the year, just in case I might be able to help people out. Not much effort required there. 

[Fuzzbucket]

Very specific individuals. So it would be very easy to contact them here. In fact, you'd have to in the first instance unless you knew every last scroll name off the bat.

 

[Tehya Faye]

Well, yeah. Public Groups would mainly just be for convenience among friends so you don't have to coordinate so much like you would a Teleport. Highlighted Groups would open the feature up more towards people not part of the community, because while trading works decently well for them any Teleport based breeding system will require necessitate communication to set up. 

[Fuzzbucket]

You can have highlighted groups and public groups. But how are people going to know where to ask about breeding without the forums ?

 

ANY system will require communication.

[LibbyLishly]

You can still create a public group of the dragons you're willing to breed, publicize it, and then use Teleport when people actually contact you via forums or other avenues with requests. You don't need an in-scroll communication system for that. People who are interested in trying it out can either join the forums or communicate with players they know in person.

 

Basically, while in-scroll might wind up being more streamlined and more open, it would take a heck of a lot more effort to implement and for older players to adapt to, plus to work out bugs and the host of potential complications that could arise, whereas a basic Teleport-style link for breeding would be the simplest and probably fastest way to get interscroll breeding implemented with the least disruption to players who Do No Want.

[Fuzzbucket]

Thanks Libby. YOU get it ! And we get back to the same point. To  publicise it you will have to be on the forum. So....

[Ruby Eyes]

I can also imagine some forms of fansites developing around that. Publish your dragons/lineages and find required mates, or something the like.

[Fuzzbucket]

A fan site would work like the one on EATW - and wouldn't interfere with those of us who want to avoid interscroll communication and still managed to involve non forum users. So - no problemo !

[HeatherMarie]

Still think Teleport is the way to go. Doing it through groups seems like too many unnecessary steps imo. Plus, it *would* in fact lead to more random and potentially unwanted requests... If you are forced to do it through Teleport then you *have* to specifically give the link to people (or post it somewhere). Normally when you post a Teleport link publicly it would be somewhere in the Trading forum and would include specifics about what you are looking for in that post. If you use Public Groups, well you've have to do that exact same thing anyways, wouldn't you? Unless you are targeting a specific user, you'd still have to post the link somewhere publicly and somehow get across what you are looking for. If you use Highlighted Groups, however, how are you going to specify what you are looking for? Anyone who sees your scroll would be able to request a breeding, using absolutely any of their own dragons, which would definitely lead to requests for, say, your special CB (or 2nd-gen, or stairstep, etc etc) Gold to be bred with a severely inbred dragon breed that you don't even like. Because you can't specify what you are looking for or what types of requests you don't want. IF there was the ability to attach a note to the group, specifying exactly what sort of requests you'd be open to, that might be better.... But it's still just needlessly complicated.

 

If you use Public Groups you will already have to do *exactly* what you would do for Teleport, ie send someone the link or post it somewhere... I really prefer Teleport.

[Fuzzbucket]

Teleport is already what works for fan sites like EATW already; they could go that route and those who wanted to could use the fansites as well as the forum,. for contact. Win-win, we can both ignore it

[Tehya Faye]

I guess my issue is that I wouldn't want the egg - I'd just dump it, regardless of whether or not it's rare and/or pretty. I'd honestly prefer if I didn't even get an egg - then I wouldn't feel any sort of pressure to breed my rares with other people's dragons rather than my own so any good fortune can be duplicated, nor would I feel slightly irked at my own personal bad fortune because interscroll breeding wouldn't affect the breeding ratios any more than normal breeding does. But those are sentiments I'd feel regardless of what system is adopted, and based more on how egg production works.

 

Another issue is that I don't like contacting people privately to ask something of them, but that's more personal problem than anything. 

 

Edit: Actually, would it be possible to set it up so the breeding link is permanent until you manually cancel it? That way people who wanted to set things up on Fansites like EATW could prepare all the dragons they want to open up to breeding ahead of time and collect all those links into a Spreadsheet hub they could share. That'd take a lot of the tediousness and manual coordination out of a Teleport-like system. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Tehya Faye

[Zeditha]

Since it does seem that a Teleport-based system is being favoured in this thread, here are some of my thoughts/ideas on it.

 

I would agree with the above post that any breeding link should remain open until the dragon is bred (through the link or otherwise; perhaps being in a breeding link would prevent in-scroll breeding, but I can see that being more of a problem than anything else), or killed, or released, or until the link is manually cancelled. After all, it it were to expire, how long would it take? A Teleport can stay open for a maximum of 8 days (if used on a Stunned hatchling), but really the limit is when the eggs or hatchlings grow. Since adults don't grow, it makes sense that the link would stay open until something closes it.

 

On eggs: As mentioned previously in this thread, I think that each player should be able to select whether or not they want an egg. If one or no players select that they want an egg, one egg is generated at normal rates and given to the appropriate player or, if neither wanted the egg, the AP. If both players select that they want an egg, two identical eggs are produced at a reduced rate. (This would prevent abuse of the feature for double 2G Gold production, etc.) The reduced rate should, I think, be somewhere between 75% and 50% of normal chances. Fertility should still be able to apply, and still not stack.

 

Since most of us have a rather long list of dragons to select from, perhaps rather than a page similar to that of a Teleport (where all your growing things are displayed and you can pick between them) but more similar to the UI when adding dragons to a group.

I would like it if a dragon's /view/ page could be accessed from this list, though. (Would be handy in the groups page, too...)

 

Since if this were added to the Magi BSA, it would continue to use up the Magi for as long as the link was open, I'm rather iffy on having it as a Magi BSA. Perhaps something else that doesn't already have a BSA, but it would always be shoehorned on in some way and it would seem redundant to implement a new dragon to introduce a new feature. Any ideas? Is this best as an addition to Teleport, or is there some other way to implement it that would be better?

[TCA]

I mean, if it was going to be Teleport 2.0 for breeding, Script dragons wouldn't even be shoehorned if it was to be a BSA. They're magically powerful, kinda like Magi, so they COULD teleport other dragons around, and they have nice cozy living spaces they don't mind sharing with others and have an attitude that'd be very conducive to "Oh, you two dragons live pretty far away from each other and wanna meet up to mate? I have a solution, just don't mess with my crystals while you're visiting".

 

Saying this as the Script's conceptor/spriter.