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Cross Breeding/Out Scroll Breeding/ User-to-User Breeding

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I'd be for this if it was implemented as suggested similar to teleport, where you have to have a community or something to actually send a breed request link and unsolicited ones are a good way to get blocked, and the 'I would/would not like an egg' checkbox. It'd be a great way for perfect code pairs that are impossible because the dragons grew up on different scrolls to suddenly be capable of being bred. 

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1 hour ago, Zeditha said:

I'd be in favour of the suggestion in one of two ways:

1. It works like a 2-way Teleport, where you create a link with a dragons and the other person 'offers' a mate.

2. An inter-scroll system on the main site, where you choose a dragon and type in a scroll name to send the request to. (would show 'this user does not exist', 'this user is not currently accepting requests', or 'your request has been sent' depending on the result.) Once the request has been sent and received it would work like the teleport option.

 

A way to use either option could be nice too, to send the link to a specific participating scroll or create a general link.

You should be able to view and offer on requests whether your scroll has opted in to the requests or not, as an easy way to make exceptions.

 

 

As for the eggs, I've heard a few reasonably good suggestions:

 - Always breed two eggs, of the same breed, with halved chances of an egg. (would support with 3/4 chance but not normal.) Would not allow breeding to occur if partner is egg- or scroll-locked. (you can take your risk and make your mistake yourself, but not for other people.) Ability for requester to accept breeding request but allow offerer to initiate breeding if they are scroll-locked when the offer is accepted.

 - Some way to choose who the one bred egg goes to. (Would have to be selected before the breeding begins, or perhaps a 5-hour period after the breeding before it is automatically dumped to the AP.)

 - Each user checks a box: 'I would like an egg' or 'I would not like an egg'. If both users select no egg, or one selects egg and the other no egg, then one egg is generated at normal rates and it is either sent to the appropriate scroll (egg-lock rules above applying) or dumped to the AP. If both select to have an egg, then the first option above.

 

Whatever was implemented, it would have to be with a good warning of impending tweaks to the system.

I think this is pretty well thought through. Don't know how often I'd use it personally, but I'd be on board with it being implemented.

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Since it seems that my long opinion ramblings are appreciated, here's some more XD

 

On scrolls being separate:

If you prefer your scroll being separate from others', that's perfectly fine. That's why this would have to be on an opt-IN system, so that those players who would like to interact and breed cross-scroll have that opportunity, while those players who prefer to stay separate have no obligation to participate.

 

Also, thoughts on a UI thing: (if this idea goes to the main site)

A page (similar to 'active Teleports') from the Account page, labelled 'breeding requests' or some similar wording, from which you can view your outgoing requests/offers and their status, then any incoming requests from users you whitelisted (done by actively adding by scroll name or by participating in a breeding.) After these, a 'view other requests' link would be visible, allowing you to see incoming requests from any other users.

A blacklist could also be in place as well; this would prevent users from sending requests to you at all, with a 'You have been blacklisted by this user.' when attempting to send more requests, and those requests not showing up at all in your requests page.

Players who have not opted in should be able to see and access this page as well, complete with requests.

 

The differences between opting in and not:

 - If there were to be an alert system of any kind (I like the idea of a '!' next to the 'accounts' link at the top of the scroll, and the letters being bold, when there is a new teleport update, breeding request from a whitelisted user, or update on any breeding offer), users who have not opted in would only get alerts from teleport updates.

 - When you send a request to a user, the text you receive will be different depending on whether or not they have opted in - I suggested some example text in my previous post. Any request sent to a user not opted in will also not show up in your outgoing requests unless the user in question makes an offer.

 - Hiding your scroll should automatically opt you out of the system, although you could opt back in.

 - Making, offering on, and accepting requests should not automatically opt you in.

 

Another idea that stems from a previous thread:

There could be some sort of public 'nest' page, where you publicly offer up your dragon for breeding and accept offers from anyone. This could be a substitute for a teleport-like page, with a unique ID for each breeding request similar to teleport IDs. (Although personally, I would prefer having a teleport-like page. Maybe a checkbox, 'make request public'?) On the public 'nest' page, you could view public breeding requests and offer your own dragons on those. There could, perhaps, be multiple sorting and filtering criteria: sort or filter by breed, or by name, or by CB or not. (I know the cave doesn't currently make a distinction between CB and bred, but with the possible return of CB Holidays that may be changing...)

 

On dragons that multi-clutch:

Once bred, the two dragons will produce the usual number of eggs (at least 2), all of the same breed. (Or, if 4 eggs are produced, then potentially 2 of each breed.) The two users then have 5 hours, as usual, to claim any eggs they want before they are all dumped to the AP. They are also dumped once each user has claimed one egg. None of the eggs will take up a slot on either user's scroll until claimed.

Multi-clutching dragons could be left with normal chances of producing an egg, rather than the reduced chance but two eggs of normal breeds.

Celestials should have to be corporealised before they can be offered for breeding. (a link to the action could be provided.)

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A small aside to this - we NEED something ON SCROLL - like you suggest here for the breeding thing - as a note that there is action on teleports. If this were to happen, we need it even more. There's a thread.Somewhere...

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4 hours ago, The Dragoness said:

How would this work with Celestials? They can produce multiple eggs of up to two different breeds. Would each person participsting suddenly become egg locked and have to choose which egg to keep?

well what if add another option such as who will get the offspring... that could work just fine 

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4 hours ago, TCA said:

I'd be for this if it was implemented as suggested similar to teleport, where you have to have a community or something to actually send a breed request link and unsolicited ones are a good way to get blocked, and the 'I would/would not like an egg' checkbox. It'd be a great way for perfect code pairs that are impossible because the dragons grew up on different scrolls to suddenly be capable of being bred. 


Omg I was literally just about so post this, but I see you beat me to the punch =P Exactly this.

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3 hours ago, Zeditha said:

Players who have not opted in should be able to see and access this page as well, complete with requests.

 

The differences between opting in and not:

 - If there were to be an alert system of any kind (I like the idea of a '!' next to the 'accounts' link at the top of the scroll, and the letters being bold, when there is a new teleport update, breeding request from a whitelisted user, or update on any breeding offer), users who have not opted in would only get alerts from teleport updates.

 - When you send a request to a user, the text you receive will be different depending on whether or not they have opted in - I suggested some example text in my previous post. Any request sent to a user not opted in will also not show up in your outgoing requests unless the user in question makes an offer.

 - Hiding your scroll should automatically opt you out of the system, although you could opt back in.

 - Making, offering on, and accepting requests should not automatically opt you in.

 

No. I'm sorry, I agree with many of your ideas, but not this. If I don't opt-in I do NOT want to see ANYTHING related to this. Not a page, not requests, nothing. That's why I didn't opt in! I don't really care whether or not people who haven't opted in would be allowed to offer, that doesn't really matter to me. If I want to offer I can easily opt-in temporarily. But if I don't opt-in that means I don't want any of this crap on my account.

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I like the idea of it being like teleport, and for celestials I imagine it'd be something like this:

-There are four eggs. The player who initiated the breeding gets to pick first. The eggs sit in their own miniature "biome" for however long. A day.
-Initiating player picks an egg. "You use a bit of sap to place parchment upon the egg with your name, then allow your companion to view the clutch."
-Accepting player picks an egg. If the egg is different, each player gets their chosen egg, or can reject any eggs.
-If the egg is the same, and there is another egg in the clutch of the same breed, each player will get an egg of the same breed.

-If the egg is the same and there are NO more eggs of the same breed in the clutch, this message appears: "ERROR: Eggs cannot be in two places at once!" or something like that
-If that happens, the players will just have to work it out. Either that, or it duplicates the egg if it's chosen (with a different code), but I could see that easily being abused for 2nd gen silvers/golds...

 

Each player must have at least one empty egg slot to mark an egg. For the initiating player, once they mark the egg, their egg slot is consumed; whether or not they get the egg. 

Anyway, if this was going to be a BSA, I'd like to suggest some breeds that don't have BSAs yet:

-Arias: "Your [Aria name] sings a delightful tune. [Dragon name] seems entranced. [Dragon name] follows [Aria name] all the way to [potential mate's name]'s home!"

-Avatar of Creation: "Your [Avatar name] swoops down to [Dragon name]. They lock eyes for a moment, before [Dragon name] vanishes into the wilderness with [Avatar name]. When they return, [potential mate's name] is with them! [Avatar name] seems particularly proud of the pairing they've created."
-Magelight's: "You kneel down to [Magelight name], asking them very seriously to help escort [Dragon name] to your fellow keeper's property. [Magelight] looks at you blankly for a moment, honks, and takes off, fiery tail held high. [Dragon name] follows reluctantly."

 

Also if valentine's dragons DO come back like halloween dragons did, I'd love to see this ability given to every valentine's dragon; it just seems to fit, y'know? It wouldn't be fair to give it to only one of them, but if I had to choose, I think Arsanis fit it the best.

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8 minutes ago, Alrexwolf said:

I like the idea of it being like teleport, and for celestials I imagine it'd be something like this:

-There are four eggs. The player who initiated the breeding gets to pick first. The eggs sit in their own miniature "biome" for however long. A day.
-Initiating player picks an egg. "You use a bit of sap to place parchment upon the egg with your name, then allow your companion to view the clutch."
-Accepting player picks an egg. If the egg is different, each player gets their chosen egg, or can reject any eggs.
-If the egg is the same, and there is another egg in the clutch of the same breed, each player will get an egg of the same breed.

-If the egg is the same and there are NO more eggs of the same breed in the clutch, this message appears: "ERROR: Eggs cannot be in two places at once!" or something like that
-If that happens, the players will just have to work it out. Either that, or it duplicates the egg if it's chosen (with a different code), but I could see that easily being abused for 2nd gen silvers/golds...

No. I really don't think someone should get first pick just for initiating a trade. Both players are sharing an equal part of the trade. Some dragons, like Golds or Silver or Coppers, may only produce one "valuable" egg in each clutch with a Celestial. If the accepting player also wanted the rare egg, unnecessary drama would happen. I think this would only work smoothly and fairly if everything was produced in pairs; one for each player. That goes for Celestials and all other breeds. 

 

Also, I agree that this should be something players would need to opt into to see on their scroll. Personally, if I were to decide that I don't want to breed my dragons with others', I would get sick of still seeing trade requests despite my disinterest, especially if notifications were added. I could see that being a huge source of frustration for many people.

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My thought was that since the requests are on a separate page, from the account page, they're out-of-the-way enough to not cause a problem for anyone (and you'd have to opt in for any notifications). But if they aren't viewable at all, it would be difficult to know about the feature to opt in.

 

I'd like to see an extra option to disable the requests entirely, since people seem to want that. But since TJ doesn't seem to like excess options, I'd have to say that the best idea to me seems like having it viewable, but out of the way.

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Hmm. Well, if there is a check-box on the account settings page, like "do you wish to allow cross-scroll breeding" (or "breeding your own dragons with other user's dragons" or whatever the wording would be), then IF the user checks the opt-in box, a link could appear for the requests/etc page. If that box is *not* checked, no link appears. There would be the check box and the explanation there, so people would still know about it, but us that don't want anything to do with it don't have to have any sort of "page" if we don't check the box. Would that work?

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6 hours ago, Marie19R said:

 

No. I'm sorry, I agree with many of your ideas, but not this. If I don't opt-in I do NOT want to see ANYTHING related to this. Not a page, not requests, nothing. That's why I didn't opt in! I don't really care whether or not people who haven't opted in would be allowed to offer, that doesn't really matter to me. If I want to offer I can easily opt-in temporarily. But if I don't opt-in that means I don't want any of this crap on my account.

 

I'm with Marie. IF I EVER wanted to do this, it would only be with the people I regularly trade and interact with. The idea of people I've never "met" being able to show up and send a breeding request is anathema to me and would totally change the game. Taking away its solitary nature.

 

1 hour ago, Zeditha said:

My thought was that since the requests are on a separate page, from the account page, they're out-of-the-way enough to not cause a problem for anyone (and you'd have to opt in for any notifications). But if they aren't viewable at all, it would be difficult to know about the feature to opt in.

 

I'd like to see an extra option to disable the requests entirely, since people seem to want that. But since TJ doesn't seem to like excess options, I'd have to say that the best idea to me seems like having it viewable, but out of the way.

 

If we can't opt out of the whole thing, I even more don't support it. If most people want it - fair enough - though I still think it will impact on every player in the end. But if I have to see anything about it when I come to my scroll in the morning - NO WAY. Marie's suggestion above works for me. It would work like it works for "do not show nasty facebook links" :)

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15 hours ago, TCA said:

I'd be for this if it was implemented as suggested similar to teleport, where you have to have a community or something to actually send a breed request link and unsolicited ones are a good way to get blocked, and the 'I would/would not like an egg' checkbox. It'd be a great way for perfect code pairs that are impossible because the dragons grew up on different scrolls to suddenly be capable of being bred. 

 

This is simple and straight forward. Interactions between players would be handled exactly as we handle teleport now, with a Cross-scroll breeding thread in Trades. Not interested in participating? Then don't. Someone sends you a PM asking? Refuse. If they start pestering you, report them. People have suggested a main-site trading method for years but it's so full of complications that I'm not at all surprised we don't have it. Trying to make inter-scroll breeding a main-site thing has the same pitfalls.

 

The method I like best for deciding who gets an egg is to always produce two of the same breed with one going to each scroll. I think Celestials could produce two pairs, so each person involved could choose from two.

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Yes - I think there is no way around the fact that this needs to be forum based. I think a vanishingly small number of players genuinely realise what interscroll communication would be like. The thought is too awful to contemplate.

 

And people not on forum can communicate with forum people they know - just as people already post "listing this trade for my sister" and so on.

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12 hours ago, Marie19R said:

 

No. I'm sorry, I agree with many of your ideas, but not this. If I don't opt-in I do NOT want to see ANYTHING related to this. Not a page, not requests, nothing. That's why I didn't opt in! I don't really care whether or not people who haven't opted in would be allowed to offer, that doesn't really matter to me. If I want to offer I can easily opt-in temporarily. But if I don't opt-in that means I don't want any of this crap on my account.

Strong words, but I agree with the content. I don't want to have event he slighest chance to accidentally missclick this and have my dragons, well, raped soft of.

 

 

As for all the doubts about inter-user in-game communication, it does work on other websites, Tales of Ostlea of instance of those I actively play... All we need to be safe with any kind of user-to-user comminucation is a working blocking system. someone harasses you ro sth? press the Block button and you're over them.

Let's not be so paranoid against everything just because for DC it would be a new feature:P why let the few trolls out there spoil the entire game's develomplent possibilities? DC was stuck for years... only lately some stuffs started to improve and somehow people didn't get truly hurt so far:) Everyone was so scared of the forum username change, and afterit got implemented, the anxiety came out to have been unnecessary, let's just give things a chance... more faith in the fellow players!

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Part of the joy of this game is that there is no possibility of inter-scroll communication. Those of us who never want there to be need to be able to have it completely disabled for our scrolls. That's not paranoia - that is the fact that some of us play this game just because it IS a personal and very individual thing. If this is implemented, it needs to be in the forum - where we have a second layer that we can work through if we choose. I don't care what happens in other games - there are reasons I choose this one and NOT Ostlea. I started another fun one once, with elves and stuff - and almost at once I started getting messages from all sorts of people. They were probably perfectly benign - but that isn't an environment I want to play in. It was just noisy - with genuine game stuff. I'm not thinking trolls - I'm thinking of plain ordinary interruptions. "Harmless" but thoroughly annoying.

 

I can deal with trolls. I'm even the gatekeeper for a forum where we get loads of them. But I'm simply not interested in being asked through my scroll for breedings - interscroll or otherwise. In the forums - fine. I breed for free. I am often asked, and I do it all the time. But I still don't want to be able to be asked via my scroll.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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I agree that requests should be handled off-scroll (I'm sure we'll wind up with several breeding threads in the Trading subforum and "Find a Mate!" threads in Site Discussion regardless of whether there's an in-scroll system of communication or not). Fuzz phrased it perfectly - there's just too much noise if it winds up as integrated directly into the game. I don't really want to be contacted via scroll either, even if I might want to opt-in to having my dragons open for breeding. Create breeding request links that are akin to a teleport link; that seems like the most intuitive and simple approach.

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1 hour ago, fuzzbucket said:

Part of the joy of this game is that there is no possibility of inter-scroll communication. Those of us who never want there to be need to be able to have it completely disabled for our scrolls. That's not paranoia - that is the fact that some of us play this game just because it IS a personal and very individual thing. If this is implemented, it needs to be in the forum - where we have a second layer that we can work through if we choose. I don't care what happens in other games - there are reasons I choose this one and NOT Ostlea. I started another fun one once, with elves and stuff - and almost at once I started getting messages from all sorts of people. They were probably perfectly benign - but that isn't an environment I want to play in. It was just noisy - with genuine game stuff. I'm not thinking trolls - I'm thinking of plain ordinary interruptions. "Harmless" but thoroughly annoying.

 

I can deal with trolls. I'm even the gatekeeper for a forum where we get loads of them. But I'm simply not interested in being asked through my scroll for breedings - interscroll or otherwise. In the forums - fine. I breed for free. I am often asked, and I do it all the time. But I still don't want to be able to be asked via my scroll.

 

Perfectly said!

 

It's not about paranoia, or not wanting change, or not understanding how well it works on other sites, etc etc. It's simply not wanting the game to change in such a drastic way that I really, really don't like. Now, I'm very active here in the forums, and I have my scroll linked in my sig. That's my choice. But in the *game* I like to be completely in control of my scroll, my dragons, and what appears. If I don't want anyone to know my username I don't have to have anyone know my username. If I don't want any outside contact at all I don't have to come to the forums. The game is completely solitary unless you *choose* to seek out communication, and I'd like it to stay that way. I don't *want* any way for users to contact me in-game, or a way for me to contact users in-game. And I don't want my account page (or any other page) cluttered with stuff about this feature that I have no use for and really would rather not be constantly reminded of.

 

Teleport-type requests seem to be the best way to go here. No one can contact you randomly, you can ignore the feature if you want, etc etc.

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What's the problem if it's opted out by default tho? None actually, just your mere acknowledgement it's possible to switch it on at all... You could as well have a problem that some game X esists out there at all and want it gone or never made... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  Just because you don't want to use it/have it switched on, shouldn't mean others should be completely unable to have it... I have the same problem with breeding to random mates, but everyone would hate me if I was trying to make it impossible to others. As long as I'm free not to breed to random mates, I shouldn't complain nor try to take the fun from the others who'd appreciate it.... just because I don't want it around. For the same reason I don't really approve of this very suggestion, but if some part of the userbase would appreciate it, why not, just as long as I don't have to take part in this at all. Live and let live as they say.

 

besides, the in-game requests (to interscroll breeding or to trade) could be limited to choosing from a list of breeds, lineage types, individual codes etc. without possibility to type a custom message. Communication of some basic sort possible, fluff talk not.

Could also be one of the options to switch on/off - custom messages being a separate thing.

Edited by VixenDra

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And what do YOU have against it being done through the forum - just as trades are at present ?

 

And also it has been pointed out that TJ isn't keen on optional options; he may or may not go for this - but if he does, we might be stuck with it on our scrolls like it or not.

 

I do not want noise when I am on my scroll. I can live with this if it's on forum - though I likely wouldn't use it. The forum is where we communicate. This isn't a matter of wishing some other game never existed - that's none of my business. I WANTED to play that elves one, but the constant noise - part of the game - would I like to trade x for y; if I did this or that I could buy god alone knows what - - made it unpleasant - there was no way to avoid it; it was part of the thing, even though I was fine with going it quietly alone.

 

Which is what I do here.

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9 minutes ago, VixenDra said:

What's the problem if it's opted out by default tho? None actually, just your mere acknowledgement it's possible to switch it on at all... You could as well have a problem that some game X esists out there at all and want it gone or never made... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  Just because you don't want to use it/have it switched on, shouldn't mean others should be completely unable to have it... I have the same problem with breeding to random mates, but everyone would hate me if I was trying to make it impossible to others. As long as I'm free not to breed to random mates, I shouldn't complain nor try to take the fun from the others who'd appreciate it.... just because I don't want it around. For the same reason I don't really approve of this very suggestion, but if some part of the userbase would appreciate it, why not, just as long as I don't have to take part in this at all. Live and let live as they say.

 

besides, the in-game requests (to interscroll breeding or to trade) could be limited to choosing from a list of breeds, lineage types, individual codes etc. without possibility to type a custom message. Communication of some basic sort possible, fluff talk not.

Could also be one of the options to switch on/off - custom messages being a separate thing.

 

As someone who might like to opt-IN to the breeding system, and probably would (I can see all kinds of benefits to all kinds of players), I still don't want people to contact me via my scroll. The method we have of setting up trades at the moment is the simplest way to go and would be a natural transition for players who already deal in trades. To put some breeder-seeking system directly into the game would be a massive undertaking, and an unnecessary one, since we already have the mechanisms for a more basic, workable request system already figured out.

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If I'm honest, I'd have to agree. While some direct scroll interaction would be nice for some, it's not what DC is about and an extension on the Teleport action would make the most sense for this.

It would have pretty much the same advantages and drawbacks of the current trade system, and that's suitable enough to last in-cave, so why not make use of what we have?

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The forum trading is far from ideal. First of, forum trading is not official/binding/part of the game itself, maybe if we at least had the forum and scrolls being one account or at least the same username but that's not true and well, won't be supported to implement now once it was separate.

 

Also I will repeat: default opting-out will solve everything, and a blocking system would solve the rest for those who opt-in. 

Also see the suggestion to split messages from non-typeable trade/breeding offers.

 

TJ has also said he can change his mind in certain cases or overtime. And this feature feels a very good material for being an option - it can be too useful to not implement JUST because a part of the playerbase would hate it (I would for the interscroll breeding) but also too invasive to force it on everyone.

 

Anyways, not my problem so I won't dig further... I feel more and more detached anyways.

Edited by VixenDra

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I have a different scroll name from forum name. Precisely because I want my scroll and the forum to be separate. I know I am not alone.

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I don't understand why an in-game inter-breeding with default opt-out would be better then an extension of what we already have and are used to. An in-game system would come with many drawbacks, like increased possibility of harassment if you do opt-in, and what if someone wanted to "opt-in" on a very specific basis? I mean, for instance, some people *only* trade during holidays, and won't take part it in any other time... With an in-cave system they would have to opt-in during holidays but that would mean also possibly being bombarded with non-holiday offers for inter-scroll breeding. If it was limited to the Teleport-type thing we already have, that wouldn't happen. No one would be forced to deal with unwanted offers/pleas/etc just to do the one inter-scroll breeding they actually want.

 

I would reluctantly support an in-game system if it was default opt-out *and* we wouldn't have to see any crap about it unless we opt-in, and preferably there would be various opt-in stages so we wouldn't be bombarded with offers we don't want while trying to accept the one offer we do want. But I *must* prefer an extension to Teleport, because it's already familiar, it's simple, and non-invasive.

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