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Encyclopedia Issues (body types & missing sprites)

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I remember seeing Winter seasonals saying they're being found in the Forest back when I checked in October. It seems to show wherever Seasonals are *currently* being found.

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Huh that is odd.... since they're their own pages you'd think they'd have biomes listed independently instead of having the migratory biome setup like Harvests. I hadn't even noticed Winters were listed as Forest before. Very good catch!

 

I'll go ahead and add that to the list when I get my comp up. :)

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More nit-picky than an error but;

 

The Winter-Holiday dragons are all listed as Holiday Dragon (Year) instead of by their real "name" ie; Yulebuck, Solstice.

 

However the Valentines and Halloween dragons are listed by their real names. This causes them to be all over the encyclopedia instead of grouped up together like the "Holiday" dragons.

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31 minutes ago, Azarkiel said:

More nit-picky than an error but;

 

The Winter-Holiday dragons are all listed as Holiday Dragon (Year) instead of by their real "name" ie; Yulebuck, Solstice.

 

However the Valentines and Halloween dragons are listed by their real names. This causes them to be all over the encyclopedia instead of grouped up together like the "Holiday" dragons.

Technically, the older Winter Holidays do not  have have actual names (aside from the garlands)  They all have names we call them, but it is not in their descriptions.  I do wish it was.

Edited by Imzadi

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On 1/5/2018 at 3:29 PM, ChocolateCat said:

Since this is for encyclopedia issues I'll post it here instead of starting a new topic.

 

The Seasonal Dragon's Encyclopedia pages are showing the wrong biome. Spring, Autumn, Winter and possibly Summer (I don't have the location unlocked for that form yet) say they are only found in the Alpine biome. Spring and Autumn, and Summer if effected, should be listed as found in the Forest biome not the Alpine biome.

 

Also, can anyone verify if the Summer form is also being listed as found in the Alpine?

They do. I think that one changes based on the current season since only one breed is available at a time. Seasonals currently are found in Alpine so that is what the encyclopedia says.  All four show "Forest" the rest of the year.

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Was just going through the encyclopedia again and noticed that Red-finned Tidals are marked as being a Lindwyrm breed, but shouldn't they be Amphipteres? I might be wrong though... I've added it to the list but if I'm wrong, someone please correct me!

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I have a zombie lindwurm from a Red-Finned Tidal so... I assume the front fins count as the arms that other lindwurms have. 

Edited by Whirlaway

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Amphipteres have no limbs, but always have wings. Red-Finned Tidals have no wings, but have fins (according to their description those are fins, not wings). So yeah, they are Lindwyrms.

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On the dragcave wikia, Earthgurl is quoted to categorise them as Lindwyrms. I always thought of them being sea serpents (same goes for Waterhorses, which is very confusing when trying for different Zombie forms).

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Man that's going to keep confusing me but if they're supposed to be lindwyrms after all, I'll take it back off of the list. Thanks guys!

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Added another issue to the list-

Seasonals now have s2 and adults in Female / Male order whereas all other breeds have Male / Female order, and since the genders aren't specifically written out, this can be confusing.

 

Looking through the ones that have dimorphism, Geodes, Spirit Wards, and Stripes are like this as well but only for adults.

Edited by StarSea

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On 4/26/2018 at 7:36 PM, HeatherMarie said:

Amphipteres have no limbs, but always have wings. Red-Finned Tidals have no wings, but have fins (according to their description those are fins, not wings). So yeah, they are Lindwyrms.

Lindwyrms have forelimbs. Tidals don’t — they have fins/wings, which means they should be classed as sea serpents or amphipteres.

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@Niyaka

 

Definition of forelimb, from https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forelimb

 

Quote

a limb (such as an arm, wing, fin, or leg) that is situated anteriorly.

 

Red-Finned Tidals have fins anteriorly, therefore they are lindwyrms. Unless DC has some special definition of what a forelimb is....

 

edit: Also, the spriter says they are lindwyrms, so that should be good enough for classification.

Edited by HeatherMarie

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3 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

@Niyaka

 

Definition of forelimb, from https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forelimb

 

 

Red-Finned Tidals have fins anteriorly, therefore they are lindwyrms. Unless DC has some special definition of what a forelimb is....

 

edit: Also, the spriter says they are lindwyrms, so that should be good enough for classification.

I should have been more specific. Lindwyrms have arms. Red-finned tidals do not. Deep sea dragons are not lindwyrms and neither are sunsongs, because they have fins and wings instead of arms. But I suppose by this logic, all amphipteres are actually lindwyrms?

 

I’m sure this isn’t really an issue, but it is a matter of being precise with the dragon classifications. 

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On 6/3/2018 at 1:53 AM, HeatherMarie said:

edit: Also, the spriter says they are lindwyrms, so that should be good enough for classification.

While I do think intentions and wishes of spriters should be considered, the classification should, in my view, have an objective base and therefore not be suggestible. One shouldn't be able to make sprites and a concept for a breed, have it released and be able to determine that it is a wyvern on-site, even if the breed clearly has both wings and front legs, because even if it might match the image the creator has of a wyvern, it's against the terms that were established for its built on Dragon Cave. It doesn't even really affect the breed itself, it is but a term for its body type.

 

If there is no reason why they are listed as lindwyrms aside from the spriter having called them so (without having named a reason for that, as far as I'm aware), then I personally still think that they should be listed as sea serpents or amphipteres. And if TJ thinks they should stay lindwyrms, then he can simply leave it as-is.

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10 minutes ago, Mewtie said:

While I do think intentions and wishes of spriters should be considered, the classification should, in my view, have an objective base and therefore not be suggestible. One shouldn't be able to make sprites and a concept for a breed, have it released and be able to determine that it is a wyvern on-site, even if the breed clearly has both wings and front legs, because even if it might match the image the creator has of a wyvern, it's against the terms that were established for its built on Dragon Cave. It doesn't even really affect the breed itself, it is but a term for its body type.

 

If there is no reason why they are listed as lindwyrms aside from the spriter having called them so (without having named a reason for that, as far as I'm aware), then I personally still think that they should be listed as sea serpents or amphipteres. And if TJ thinks they should stay lindwyrms, then he can simply leave it as-is.

 

Okay, I can understand that to a point. But where, exactly, are the 'terms that were established' in regards to what lindwyrms are supposed to be on DragonCave? On the DC website there is no actual written definition of what lindwyrms are, that I can find. There's a general definition on the wiki, but that's not official. Nowhere on DragonCave does it specifically say that lindwyrms always have to have, say, actual legs instead of the fins that the Red-Finned Tidals have. It's fine to want a standard of what each type actually is, but I don't see any reason to *change* a classification where there is yet no such standard on the site. 

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Quoted from the wiki page:

 

"I originally intended for them (red-finned tidals) to be Leviathans, but they came out too fragile-looking to be the case,

so they are just water lindwurms" ~ Earthgirl

 

 

I think that's reason enough to call the lindwyrms ;) 

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10 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

Okay, I can understand that to a point. But where, exactly, are the 'terms that were established' in regards to what lindwyrms are supposed to be on DragonCave? On the DC website there is no actual written definition of what lindwyrms are, that I can find. There's a general definition on the wiki, but that's not official. Nowhere on DragonCave does it specifically say that lindwyrms always have to have, say, actual legs instead of the fins that the Red-Finned Tidals have. It's fine to want a standard of what each type actually is, but I don't see any reason to *change* a classification where there is yet no such standard on the site. 

They aren't written down anywhere on Dragon Cave, to my knowledge, but from looking at breeds that are officially considered lindwyrms and the lindwyrm variant of Undead Dragons, Red-finned Tidals stick out by not having front legs. Other lindwyrms on-site seem to have front legs, wings and no hind legs, hence that seems to be what that term is supposed to stand for.

 

5 hours ago, OrcaFreak said:

Quoted from the wiki page:

 

"I originally intended for them (red-finned tidals) to be Leviathans, but they came out too fragile-looking to be the case,

so they are just water lindwurms" ~ Earthgirl

 

 

I think that's reason enough to call the lindwyrms ;) 

I'm not sure at what point a dragon is too fragile to be specifically a sea serpent, and if that was actually something determined by TJ himself. Again, if he thinks they should stay lindwyrms, he doesn't have to change it. But maybe it is something that was simply a mistake, which can be assumed due to their seeming lack of front legs.

Edited by Mewtie

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While on the topic of body types.... Radiant Angels are listed in the Encyclopedia as Westerns, despite having a much more serpentine/longer body then most Westerns in the cave. The wiki lists them as Easterns, and while the wiki is not official it does show that the spriter, Infinis, describes them as 'Winged Eastern'. Is there any reason they are listed as Westerns? They really do look much more like Easterns.

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1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

While on the topic of body types.... Radiant Angels are listed in the Encyclopedia as Westerns, despite having a much more serpentine/longer body then most Westerns in the cave. The wiki lists them as Easterns, and while the wiki is not official it does show that the spriter, Infinis, describes them as 'Winged Eastern'. Is there any reason they are listed as Westerns? They really do look much more like Easterns.


My best guess why it's that way is that Eastern dragons are traditionally a long serpentine, wingless creature, while Westerns are almost always winged.

 

I don't particularly agree with them being Westerns (I sort them as Easterns as well), but they have wings so...they got sorted as a Western, albeit a very noodly Western. 

 

I honestly think it should be changed.

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DC has a few noodly westerns, so radiant angels classified as westerns for having wings isn't terribly out of place. There's always going to be a few breeds that don't fit squarely in one category. The wingless decision had to be made for terraes.

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