Jump to content
Dalek

ANSWERED:Ideas on Limiting Reoccurring Raffle Winners

Recommended Posts

Would it help you if the store actually had a currency called "raffle tickets", each of which is earned by raising 3 dragons? Only difference is that you could get a guaranteed prize for saving up half a year's worth of "raffle tickets" - if you worked to max them out. (Meaning: Way, way more than 1 per month.)

Share this post


Link to post

I am against a store on principle - mainly because a store goes against my idea of what "playing" DC is. In my opinion, what one gets for raising a dragon is a dragon. Awarding points as an ingame currency would advantage more active players. While I understand that this appeals to some store supporters, isn't it enough "reward" that players who can be more active, be it because they have the time and/or the persistance to be online more often than others, will have more dragons (or even better chances of catching the dragons they want)? Awarding points on top of that would be a bit much, I believe.

 

I am strongly of the opinion that playing the game gives all the rewards intended by the game. A store can have tw basic things:

 

1. Things that are already available in the game. My opinion: Play the game if you want those things. Don't create a way to get those outside of gameplay.

 

2. Things that are not available in the game. My opinion: If you want those, ask TJ to make it available via gameplay, not via a store. If said things are judged to become available by TJ, why wouldn't it via gameplay. If TJ thinks those things should not be available in the game, a store is not needed (see 1 for why).

 

I think the raffle was a bad idea, but Prizes should be available via gameplay and not via another way that has nothing to with being in the right biome at the right time. I hope that gets my point of view across, whether you share this or not.

Edited by Rally Vincent

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Rally Vincent said:

I am against a store on principle - mainly because a store goes against my idea of what "playing" DC is. In my opinion, what one gets for raising a dragon is a dragon. Awarding points as an ingame currency would advantage more active players. While I understand that this appeals to some store supporters, isn't it enough "reward" that players who can be more active, be it because they have the time and/or the persistance to be online more often than others, will have more dragons (or even better chances of catching the dragons they want)? Awarding points on top of that would be a bit much, I believe.

 

I am strongly of the opinion that playing the game gives all the rewards intended by the game. A store can have tw basic things:

 

1. Things that are already available in the game. My opinion: Play the game if you want those things. Don't create a way to get those outside of gameplay.

 

2. Things that are not available in the game. My opinion: If you want those, ask TJ to make it available via gameplay, not via a store. If said things are judged to become available by TJ, why wouldn't it via gameplay. If TJ thinks those things should not be available in the game, a store is not needed (see 1 for why).

 

I think the raffle was a bad idea, but Prizes should be available via gameplay and not via another way that has nothing to with being in the right biome at the right time. I hope that gets my point of view across, whether you share this or not.

 

It does, and I don't ! I would much prefer the store (though while I have regretted the raffle since day 1, it is with us now.) But sure - you could earn points to spend in the store more easily by being more active. Anyone has the choice to be more active and play harder if it's worth it to them. And the availability of what you want (be it prize dragons or CB coppers) by playing harder makes it more worthwhile to play harder. That could encourage more gameplay. A good thing, no ?

Share this post


Link to post

Well, problem with "make it available through gameplay" is that not everything that's available through gameplay truly is for everyone. Even after 8 years of playing actively (although I admit I don't always keep my scroll locked, I've never been on a hiatus that exceeded two weeks), I still need to catch my first CB gold. (I got some gifted/traded, though, thanks to some generous people. However, not every player can use the forums for a variety of reasons.) Other people have worse luck/connections/reflexes than I do. Making CB prizes "available through gameplay", meaning as cave drops, will be even worse for them.

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Bison said:

Prizes are easily the worst part about this game. People get so vicious, entitled, and nasty about them... every time I come back to the forums and try to get back into lurking regularly I see another topic like this. If you (general you) don't want people to disappear or stop breeding their CB Prizes or deleting/freezing CB prizes, maybe try not being nasty to winners. The harassment in PMs, attempted (sometimes successful) scamming of winners unfamiliar with trading, the entitled vitriol on the forums... no wonder so many winners leave, stop breeding their Prizes, or will only accept swap trades.

 

Life isn't fair. Randomness isn't fair. Raffles obviously weren't created to give every single person a CB Prize egg; if they were TJ would've just made a "line" you could queue into to eventually be given an egg. There is no possible way to make CB Prize acquisition "fair" and equal except for something like the Store, achievements, or some other way of earning an egg. But even then people would probably still find a way to complain about it, honestly.

TJ has proven that cooldowns would change basically nothing except make a vocal, jealous part of the userbase slightly happier (although with the odds of repeat winners I'm sure there would be plenty of complaining about the Raffle still being "unfair", the cooldown not working/not being long enough, etc). Before I read his post I thought a one month cooldown could possibly be some sort of compromise but now that I've seen the math I don't think so anymore. The difference is so small it would just be a waste. TJ's time would be better spent coding something else for DC.

 

Are people really that nasty to prize owners, though? Or is this just a supposed boogeyman myth that people assume happens. I've never seen public shaming or similar harassment to winners-- on the contrary, people congratulate them for their wins and wish them luck in breeding. Obviously things can go on off-site or in PMs, but this rampant harassment people bring up like it's happening left and right confounds me. I've never received any, in fact I rarely ever get any PMs about prize breeding in general. When I do, it's always polite and bordering on "my god please don't flip out and hate me if you don't like getting PM'd, I'm sorry I'm sorry"... I think a lot of people are frightened to PM prize winners more than anything, lol.

 

If it's happened to other people (and I'm sure it has somewhere sometime), then yes that sucks. But I wouldn't take isolated incidents and make it out like the community is frothing to see your head on a pike. I especially don't think this attitude of "well someone was rude to me so now I'm never going to breed my CB prize to non-winners again" is something to brag about. You can do whatever you want with your CB-- you can kill it if you want and rez it as a zombie-- but threatening things like leaving, freezing, or not breeding reeks of something foul. Never say anything about raffles or prizes again that isn't glowing with divine praise, or CB owners will punish you. That is fear-mongering on the same level as "don't say anything bad or TJ will take raffles away/ shut down the site", "don't say anything bad or spriters will pull another Frill episode."

 

Which brings me to another concern, this bizarre idea that discussing and debating about suggestions equals vicious, entitled, nasty behavior. I've seen pretty calm discussion going on so far, nothing even close to what I'd call "vitriol". A lot of assumptions about people who are for this suggestion, though. Someone can have an opinion that isn't yours' and not be all those nasty adjectives, you can even disagree with someone and not revile their opinions as self-serving and fueled by jealousy. It's easy. I'm for a small CD for winners and a limit on specific CB types won (won't someone think of the poor guy with a dozen bronze Tinsels), but I can still see valid points and concerns raised by the other side and not immediately think they're selfish, arrogant, etc. This isn't restricted to this topic alone. Suggestions can be discussed and weighed without throwing emotional accusations at the other side.

 

I don't think anyone is in the position of saying what TJ's coding time is better spent doing, either. Only he can answer that, and speculation of some feature being a 'waste of coding time' is not helpful to any suggestion and only achieves in shutting down discussion for no substantiated reason.

 

This is, of course, getting wildly off-topic by this point (but is it really?) so I'll end by saying that while a CD won't mathematically increase any individual's chaces at winning by a notable amount, I take the suggestion more for slightly increasing the odds of non-winners winning. Removing ~60 people from the raffle for a month may not have a huge impact, but that's still 60 less chances for a repeat winner. Naturally people who won a prize months ago could still win and that's fine-- I don't think this suggestion is to completely get rid of repeat winners nor should it. It's not a hugely game-changing suggestion, and I know I won't be weeping if it's not implemented. But it'd prevent double-dipping in the short term and maybe that would be enough to add a couple more non-winners getting lucky per month. 

 

By the way, thank you olympe for math-ing out the odds of my three dragons with Oz codes. It's nice to know I used up all my luck for the next nine decades. =p

Edited by Nine

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Rally Vincent said:

I am against a store on principle - mainly because a store goes against my idea of what "playing" DC is. In my opinion, what one gets for raising a dragon is a dragon. Awarding points as an ingame currency would advantage more active players. While I understand that this appeals to some store supporters, isn't it enough "reward" that players who can be more active, be it because they have the time and/or the persistance to be online more often than others, will have more dragons (or even better chances of catching the dragons they want)? Awarding points on top of that would be a bit much, I believe.

 

I am strongly of the opinion that playing the game gives all the rewards intended by the game. A store can have tw basic things:

 

1. Things that are already available in the game. My opinion: Play the game if you want those things. Don't create a way to get those outside of gameplay.

 

2. Things that are not available in the game. My opinion: If you want those, ask TJ to make it available via gameplay, not via a store. If said things are judged to become available by TJ, why wouldn't it via gameplay. If TJ thinks those things should not be available in the game, a store is not needed (see 1 for why).

 

I think the raffle was a bad idea, but Prizes should be available via gameplay and not via another way that has nothing to with being in the right biome at the right time. I hope that gets my point of view across, whether you share this or not.

 

I understand your view, but it seems your view is based on a few misconceptions. Playing the game does *not* guarantee you will get what you are trying to get. I have been a member of DC since 2008 (and went on hiatus for a year, but that still means I've been playing for over seven years), I have literally played *every single day* this year so far (except for the 19 days I was in the hospital), and I have yet to catch *one* CB Gold. Gameplay, no matter how hard or how often you play, does not guarantee even a *chance* of getting everything available. For people with slow reflexes, or slow internet connections, or people who simply seem to be unlucky as heck, the store is a way of *earning* those things that they *can not* obtain any other way. It's not a way to get around gameplay or to not put effort into the game, it's a way to *play* the game in order to earn something that is otherwise unobtainable.

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, fuzzbucket said:

 

It does, and I don't ! I would much prefer the store (though while I have regretted the raffle since day 1, it is with us now.) But sure - you could earn points to spend in the store more easily by being more active. Anyone has the choice to be more active and play harder if it's worth it to them. And the availability of what you want (be it prize dragons or CB coppers) by playing harder makes it more worthwhile to play harder. That could encourage more gameplay. A good thing, no ?

 

(bolded for emphasis)

 

This is a good point. I've been part of online games and communities that slowly faded away due to lack of interest, and it's a shame. DC is doing quite decently as far as I can tell but it's always a good thing to encourage people to remain active; I myself have taken long hiatuses before, simply because I did not have a specific goal other than collecting the occasional new release, which I could simply catch up on later. Even now I'm only active to try and collect all the different zombie sprites. Adding a way to achieve more things by just being an active player would be rather encouraging, and of course it's absolutely not mandatory for those who are perfectly happy with their current playstyle. It's the same idea as the raffle (raise 3 adults IF you want to enter), except you'll eventually get something out of it by your own effort instead of relying solely on luck.

 

As for the other ideas presented in this topic, I might be in the minority who doesn't actually mind the idea of limits, be it 2 or 4 (as long as it's separate not only among bronze-silver-gold, but also between tinsels and shimmers...they are entirely different dragons after all). I'm not quite sure in what order exactly the winners are drawn, but as a collector if I happened to be lucky enough to win twice and it was the same kind of dragon, I would much rather have a shot at the different ones after that than win the same one again. Obviously that's personal preference though. The cool down idea on the other hand leaves me indifferent, I wouldn't strongly object to it but it just seems sort of pointless as has been demonstrated by TJ.

 

Still on the whole I'd much rather see the store implemented, with or without the raffles on the side. Seems like the only suggestion that would actually make a noticeable difference without punishing raffle winners.

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, Nine said:

 

Are people really that nasty to prize owners, though? Or is this just a supposed boogeyman myth that people assume happens. I've never seen public shaming or similar harassment to winners-- on the contrary, people congratulate them for their wins and wish them luck in breeding. Obviously things can go on off-site or in PMs, but this rampant harassment people bring up like it's happening left and right confounds me. I've never received any, in fact I rarely ever get any PMs about prize breeding in general. When I do, it's always polite and bordering on "my god please don't flip out and hate me if you don't like getting PM'd, I'm sorry I'm sorry"... I think a lot of people are frightened to PM prize winners more than anything, lol.

 

Yes, they are. When I made the mistake of posting that I won I was immediately flooded with PMs. I was harassed, scammed (very successfully!), and had people pretending to be my friends to try and force me to give them/their friends eggs. Its not some boogeyman myth. Its 100% real. It took me literal years to pay off all the slots I was guilted and scammed into offering. If you were an established member or had some idea what Prizes even were or didn't immediately run to announce without a thought maybe that's why it didn't happen to you, if not I don't know. All I know is that I was a newbie with no experience, possibly one of the first to announce? (its hard to remember now), and the experience completely ruined DC for me. Once the hype died down after a few months or so I stopped getting so many PMs. Now I rarely get them even when my slots are open, probably because my rules list isn't very nice (because of all the scamming).

 

As for most of the rest of your post, you're entitled to your opinion just as I'm entitled to mine. Based on the math I personally feel a cooldown would be a waste of TJ's limited availability to code things for DC. I'd much rather see that time and effort go into something that truly benefits all players, like new BSAs or features or whatever, instead of uselessly throwing a bandaid on complaining that will still continue to happen. Raffles and Prizes bring out the absolute worst in this site.

Edited by Bison

Share this post


Link to post

@Bison, @Nine's baby came from the exact same raffle as yours, so I doubt it has to do with experience. I'm sorry that you were guilt-ed/scammed into giving your prize's offspring away. Hopefully, as we are now into 2017, we can agree that DC winners and the rest of the userbase have a handle on how to deal with harassment. We have clear forum rules put in place and a thread dedicated to helping winners figure out what to do with their new dragons. I'm sure that many winners are also eager to reach out to each other and "guide" them on their way beyond the thread. What I can see from your and Nine's and MissK and the rest of the prize winners' (and spriters') posts is that everyone has had different experiences in the six years that these have existed. But it does not mean that any one user is right or wrong in their assessment of how prizes are handled. 

 

Moving on...since the cooldown is seemingly not a viable option, why not increase the prize pool or limit the number of prizes that a user could win in a set amount of time? 

Edited by Jazeki

Share this post


Link to post

We'll probably never be able to find a limit that even half the players can actually agree on. And, seriously, 4 of each prize (meaning 24 overall) is pretty much as good as no limit at all. Heck, most of us would be happy with just one. And what's the difference between "limit of maximum prize wins in a given time frame" and a cooldown? Yes, I know, there's some difference - but not much, really.

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, olympe said:

We'll probably never be able to find a limit that even half the players can actually agree on. And, seriously, 4 of each prize (meaning 24 overall) is pretty much as good as no limit at all. Heck, most of us would be happy with just one. And what's the difference between "limit of maximum prize wins in a given time frame" and a cooldown? Yes, I know, there's some difference - but not much, really.

Someone further back mentioned limiting it according to the number of prizes that are given out, so I'd be okay with that, too. And my comment was referring to letting a person win their 2, 4, or 12 bronze tinsels and then they're done with that breed. Then they can only win the other color tinsels or shimmers. 

 

The difference is that you can win multiple times in a row, you'll just hit the breed limit faster.

Edited by Jazeki

Share this post


Link to post

Seriously, what is a limit of 4 of each kind, meaning 24 overall? It'll take so many years before anyone will get there, it's not even funny. And once someone actually does, it won't change the other players' winning chances in any significant way, anyway. So, let's not even start to talk about 12 of each kind. That's like limiting CB Halloweens to 160 on each scroll. *scoffs*

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, olympe said:

Seriously, what is a limit of 4 of each kind, meaning 24 overall? It'll take so many years before anyone will get there, it's not even funny. And once someone actually does, it won't change the other players' winning chances in any significant way, anyway. So, let's not even start to talk about 12 of each kind. That's like limiting CB Halloweens to 160 on each scroll. *scoffs*

I'm pretty sure that if people have won multiple prizes already--even multiple gold tinsels--it won't take years. And it's the same as having Christmas and Valentine's day limits . I don't see why we have to treat them like Halloweens.

Edited by Jazeki

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, olympe said:

Well, problem with "make it available through gameplay" is that not everything that's available through gameplay truly is for everyone. Even after 8 years of playing actively (although I admit I don't always keep my scroll locked, I've never been on a hiatus that exceeded two weeks), I still need to catch my first CB gold. (I got some gifted/traded, though, thanks to some generous people. However, not every player can use the forums for a variety of reasons.) Other people have worse luck/connections/reflexes than I do. Making CB prizes "available through gameplay", meaning as cave drops, will be even worse for them.

 

 

Well, as I said, a reason given to change the raffle was "you can get everything else from the cave but Prize dragons". I find it inconsistent that at the same time "I yet have to catch a..." is used to argue in favor of a store. To tell the truth, I cannot tell you much more than I already said. I think playing the game should mean playing the game. Making Prizes available at the store equals giving up their exclusitivity. Why would that have to be in a store?

 

If their rarity would be the problem (or else said, if the intention goes that everyone should be able to get one CB rather easily), don't make the Prize dragons rare when released in the cave. If they are supposed to stay rare, then why is it a problem that not everyone can catch a CB one in the cave? But there can't be both - they are either easily obtainable for everyone, or they are rare.

 

 

12 hours ago, Marie19R said:

 

I understand your view, but it seems your view is based on a few misconceptions. Playing the game does *not* guarantee you will get what you are trying to get. I have been a member of DC since 2008 (and went on hiatus for a year, but that still means I've been playing for over seven years), I have literally played *every single day* this year so far (except for the 19 days I was in the hospital), and I have yet to catch *one* CB Gold. Gameplay, no matter how hard or how often you play, does not guarantee even a *chance* of getting everything available. For people with slow reflexes, or slow internet connections, or people who simply seem to be unlucky as heck, the store is a way of *earning* those things that they *can not* obtain any other way. It's not a way to get around gameplay or to not put effort into the game, it's a way to *play* the game in order to earn something that is otherwise unobtainable.

 

Does there have to be a guarantee? I think that is the base for every thread like this - the expectation that everyone has to get everything, otherwise the game is faulty at its core. Well, I'll admit that - as a collector - I want to have one of everything, CB if possible. I have voiced my opinion thusly, be it on the Snow Angel variants, the Sweetling Alts. When I started playing (like you in 2008), I was very unhappy that I could never get a complete scroll, as things like Missing No and the the Leetle Stack of Pancakes would never be available to me.

 

Now, why am I against the store if I - theoretically - could get one of those in it? Because I would not get it by playing the game. Let me compare it to a marathon. Say by running five marathons you'd get a voucher for one ride in a car for the sixth marathon. Sure, you'd get to the goal very comfortably in the car, but would you have run a marathon?

 

I caught an original leetle tree, mostly because I was online back then every day just in case ( I still check almost every day to see what's up). I always supported the attempts to rerelease the leetle trees, I was happy when they were actually rerelased in the cave ( I was sad that our trees lost their click and view stats the "-" look so out of place). No need for it being in a store, I think.

 

Like I said above - if rarity is a problem, ask for the prize Dragons to be released in the cave as uncommon instead of a rare. I think it would be great if everyone had a chance to catch them, but I think a store is lame.

Edited by Rally Vincent

Share this post


Link to post

/store support

 

Or add a Veteran Reward system (which I think got posted some time ago, I can't recall)

Basically everyone gets a present on Christmas and gets to pick a dragon from a list. Prizes, Metals, Hybrids (those allowed). A nice reward for playing all year and people get their favorite too. Something more in line with the Magic of Christmas. Cause Santa knows what you want!

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Vhale said:

Or add a Veteran Reward system (which I think got posted some time ago, I can't recall)

Basically everyone gets a present on Christmas and gets to pick a dragon from a list. Prizes, Metals, Hybrids (those allowed). A nice reward for playing all year and people get their favorite too. Something more in line with the Magic of Christmas. Cause Santa knows what you want!

 

This or everyone gets a CB Prize on New Year's day and those who won raffles are in advance anyway~~~

Share this post


Link to post

On the idea of an end-of-year giveaway, perhaps you can choose to 'save up' your raffle tickets each month, and one year's worth would grant you access to the present at the end of the year?

I'd be ok with the prize you get being random (preferably with a limit on each type), but I think that would be a nice way to keep both the raffles and a 'store' without it actually being a store as such.

(Also, with the promise of a definite dragon at christmas, more people will save them, increasing your raffle chances. Bonus.)

 

Or maybe 6 months' worth of tickets would let you get a gift from a pool of 'less valuable' dragons (e.g. Blusangs, Nebulae, BSAs, maybe Coppers... things you don't really see in cave but aren't 'rare') but if you save up all 12 you get a gift of a rare dragon - CB Silver, Gold or Prize.

 

I like this 'christmas gift' idea. Should I make it its own thread?

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Zeditha said:

 

I like this 'christmas gift' idea. Should I make it its own thread?

Please do. :3 

Share this post


Link to post

The discussion seems to have trended away from it's initial point and into "ways for people to get more prizes." Since I've already responded with my reasoning for not limiting repeat winners and the continued discussion hasn't really been on topic, I'm just going to close this.

 

For individual concrete ideas, feel free to make new threads.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.