Sino Summons - a bit more on gender

[Fuzzbucket]

Thanks to TJ for saying that there will soon be a way at least to influence what sex of Sino we get.

 

But then he closed the thread before I could ask this bit.

 

TJ - we also need to be able to see which zyus are up for it, so we KNOW we are leaning towards one sex or the other. AT the moment you just click a zyu and if there are enough of them to summon, they do it. You don't get to choose. Especially for people building lineages, there may be many of each sex waiting for their turn - we need to choose. Speaking as one with 8 girls, I feel rather strongly about this... not least because I have been collecting kind of at random, more concerned about the biome than the sex,  and I'm not at all sure I even bothered to influence...

 

(We also need to know when it happens. Assuming I have more males in the wings, I don't want to waste them...)

[HeatherMarie]

This is a *very* good point. I have multiple sets of Zyus right now that have not used their Summon ability yet, with varying genders. It doesn't specifically *say*, when we use Summon, which Zyus are being used. I have enough females to "shift the chance" to get a female Sino, but not if the Summon randomly chooses different Zyus. I definitely think it's important to be able to specify which Zyus to use... Otherwise Sino-gender being swayed by Zyu-gender doesn't really matter at all since we won't be able to influence it in any way.

[TJ09]

Don't worry, this has already been taken into account (at least a little bit). When the update happens, the actions page will also list specifically which dragons are involved.

[Fuzzbucket]

Thank you. So we can also see when it happens, so I will just check my marker one to see when to try.

[olympe]

Why not make it even easier? The summoned Sino could always be of the same gender as the Zyu whose Summon BSA is being clicked.

[Fuzzbucket]

Thanks TJ  - I FINALLY have a male. BUT - we don't seem to be able to CHOOSE which sinos we want to use.... Luckily almost all those I had that were able were male - but I did try and change which were to be used, just to see - and I can't see a way. Am I missing something ?

[HeatherMarie]

3 hours ago, fuzzbucket said:

Thanks TJ  - I FINALLY have a male. BUT - we don't seem to be able to CHOOSE which sinos we want to use.... Luckily almost all those I had that were able were male - but I did try and change which were to be used, just to see - and I can't see a way. Am I missing something ?

 

Huh. If that's the case, this suggestion really hasn't been implemented at all. *tests* Yup, when I go to Summon it shows which Zyus will be used but I can't see any way to change that. That's... Sort of pointless, imo. Why does it matter whether we can see which Zyus will be used, if we can't change or specify that we want different ones used? With this change Summon is still completely random, with no way to influence the outcome, and I thought that's what this suggestion was about.

[purplehaze]

Well, I looked at the Zyus that were listed on the summon for me and it happened that 5 of the 6 were males, so I took a chance. I did finally get a male! But I agree that it doesn't do us much good to be able to see which dragons are involved if we can't change them or pick the genders of the ones we want to use.

[Ruby Eyes]

When I check my Zyus, best I get is 3 females and 3 males - mostly due to lineage reasons.

Too risky ... I want a MALE Sino ...

[Silverfang]

Three summons, three females. It's disheartening. I really don't want to have to collect a fourth set of zyus.

[HeatherMarie]

Went to Summon another Sino and the Zyus it showed were all male except one. I *have* females of those other colors that haven't yet used their Summon ability, but there doesn't seem to be any way to specify that I want *them* to summon. I tried clicking on Summon on one of the females, and it still gave me almost all male Zyus. I want to Summon a female Sino, and I *have* females to do that with, but it won't let me. Very frustrating.

[Ruby Eyes]

Apparently, 50% of each gender *still* bends towards the undesired one, even though I specifically picked a male one to start the summon.

 

Can we PLEASE have a chance to influence which Zyus are being used?

[DragonLady86]

Finely got my first set of zues.  FOUR male and TWO female gives female Sino.  As I said it was my first, so I needed both genders, but I really feel that one should have been male judging by those used. 

[HeatherMarie]

On 10/11/2017 at 5:09 PM, Marie19R said:

Went to Summon another Sino and the Zyus it showed were all male except one. I *have* females of those other colors that haven't yet used their Summon ability, but there doesn't seem to be any way to specify that I want *them* to summon. I tried clicking on Summon on one of the females, and it still gave me almost all male Zyus. I want to Summon a female Sino, and I *have* females to do that with, but it won't let me. Very frustrating.

 

Quoting myself since I just tried yet again and this is still a frustrating issue! This time when I go to Summon I got 4 males 2 females. I double-checked, and yup, I do indeed have females of those breeds that haven't used their Summon ability. I am completely *able* to use all-females to Summon, based on the Zyus I have that have Summon available, so it's very very frustrating that using them specifically is not an option.

[purplehaze]

If the gender of the Zyus we use influences the gender of the Sino, then we really need to be able to choose which ones to use when we have more than one of each! Please, TJ?

[Ruby Eyes]

I'd prefer if the one on which we *click* the Summon action determines/influences the Sino's gender. That way, I wouldn't need to check genders of 6+ Zyus (depending on who is displayed) but only 1.

 

But looking at DragonLady86's post above, the 6 Zyus picked don't seem to have much influence anyway.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Ruby Eyes

[HeatherMarie]

Just Summoned again, and the Zyus that the game randomly selected were 3 male and 3 female, even though, once again, I have enough of each gender in each color to have all males or all females use the ability. I really really wish something would be done about this... Either give us the option to choose which Zyus to use, or have the Zyu we clicked the Summon action on be the one that influences the Sino gender. I had resolved to simply not Summon anymore until something was done about this frustrating randomness, but it's very frustrating to *not* Summon when I know I have enough of one gender to Summon that gender but the action won't allow it. I'm very confused about why there was even a change made to show what Zyus would be used if we can't influence that at all.

[purplehaze]

19 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

I'm very confused about why there was even a change made to show what Zyus would be used if we can't influence that at all.

Agreed. It seems pointless to know that the ones used to summon affect the gender when we can't choose which ones will be used. I finally did get one male after 4 females, but I simply will not summon any more until something changes.

[Amazon_warrior]

I'd already completed my base scroll goal for Sinos, but I got some more Zyus recently for lineages and just now decided to see if I could Summon again - I could, and the Action page showed two male and four female Zyus (I'd picked the action on a female Zyu; I didn't know about this change so it was a nice surprise to see them all listed there):

https://dragcave.net/lineage/ZnMjc

https://dragcave.net/lineage/9jFLf

https://dragcave.net/lineage/Fpziv

https://dragcave.net/lineage/5xGcs

https://dragcave.net/lineage/sV9T1

https://dragcave.net/lineage/I51QB

 

The Sino I Summoned is male, though: https://dragcave.net/lineage/1psro

 

The outcome in this case does not matter to me in the slightest, but it does suggest that maybe this feature isn't finalised yet!

[TJ09]

On 11/13/2017 at 3:28 AM, Ruby Eyes said:

I'd prefer if the one on which we *click* the Summon action determines/influences the Sino's gender. That way, I wouldn't need to check genders of 6+ Zyus (depending on who is displayed) but only 1.

 

But looking at DragonLady86's post above, the 6 Zyus picked don't seem to have much influence anyway.

This seems like a reasonable thing to do; it provides better gameplay at the expense of lore (none of the Zyus are more special than the others, so there's no lore reason why the selected one would matter—but there's also very little lore chance that a person is instructing the Zyumorphs to do anything anyways). Selecting Zyus is a more cumbersome way to achieve this same goal (too much effort involved to perform the summon if you have to pick six dragons). However, right now it's possible to have a guaranteed gender (if all six are the same gender); if only th e selected dragon influences gender it definitely wouldn't be a guarantee.

 

The other option I was thinking of is to automatically try to select dragons of the same gender, which helps individual summons but over multiple summons doesn't specifically matter because the gender chance scales directly.

 

Let's say you have 6 males and 30 females, so you can do 6 summons total. No matter how you slice it, you should be getting 1 male and 5 females:

 

All same gender

Summon 1: 6 males = 100% chance of male.

Summon 2: 6 females = 100% chance of female.

Summon 3: 6 females = 100% chance of female.

Summon 4: 6 females = 100% chance of female.

Summon 5: 6 females = 100% chance of female.

Summon 6: 6 females = 100% chance of female.

 

= 1 male, 5 females.

 

Evenly distributed

Summon 1: 1 male, 5 females = ⅙ chance of male, ⅚ chance of female.

Summon 2: 1 male, 5 females = ⅙ chance of male, ⅚ chance of female.

Summon 3: 1 male, 5 females = ⅙ chance of male, ⅚ chance of female.

Summon 4: 1 male, 5 females = ⅙ chance of male, ⅚ chance of female.

Summon 5: 1 male, 5 females = ⅙ chance of male, ⅚ chance of female.

Summon 6: 1 male, 5 females = ⅙ chance of male, ⅚ chance of female.

 

= 6 × ⅙ = 1 male, 6 × ⅚ = 5 females.

 

And everything in between turns out to be the same (except for RNG, which is fair over time but doesn't behave how people expect over short terms).

[Ruby Eyes]

With my Zyus being 40 males and 41 females, that sounds like I shouldn't have 3 male and 7 female Sinos.

In situations like this, I despise short-term RNG (and I suspect fuzzbucket with her 100% harem despises it even more).

 

I do like the automatic selection of same-gender Zyus. If no same-gender one is available, just pick the other one to fill the group.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Ruby Eyes

[Fuzzbucket]

Fuzz does now have a single male to enjoy all that...!

 

 

But yes; as one does, my zyus were influenced half and half and I still got a run of 8 females before the slight tweak which made me collect agnd influence several male to get the boy. I honestly ended up past caring and don't bother any more. I do not want a shedload more male zyus just to get a balance.

Edited December 7, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[Ruby Eyes]

Female why? (Used Zyus: 5 male, 1 female)

I wish those supposedly evenly distributed chances were more evenly distributed on my scroll.

[HeatherMarie]

I just don't even summon Sinos anymore because it seems rather pointless right now. It's honestly more frustrating then it's worth to summon when there is no way to influence the gender, no way to choose which zyus are used, *and* it seems (as evidenced in this thread) that majority-gender doesn't actually mean much anyways. To me it's more frustrating to summon, and *see* the zyus that were randomly chosen and I have no control over, then to just not summon at all. I'll keep my Sino count at my current 6 until *hopefully* something is changed here. @TJ09 posted ways that this could be changed over 3 months ago, but since then no word on it at all.... Very frustrating.

[LadyLoki]

All I've ever gotten were females. But since I have my scroll goal of 4 each of every Zyu, I'm just going to breed two more of each, influence them all male, use them for summoning the 2 male Sinos I need.

Then the bred Zyus become zombie fodder.

Of course if I use all male Zyus to summon and STILL get female Sinos... I will, needless to say, not be happy.