ANSWERED:Action log change to show who claimed the gift

[Felinor]

Hello! After seeing this happen more and more with people who leave gifts for others to claim, I've come up with a rather simple idea to (hopefully) stop people sniping gifts: the action log to show the scroll on which the gift went, even if it's hidden. So far, when a gift gets claimed, it looks like this on the action log:

 

The idea I'm suggesting would look something like this:

 

The scroll won't be able to be accessed if it's hidden, as it is now, but it would help weed out snipers (maybe even multiscrollers). Also, gifters would have a better track of where do their gifts go. It would be a small and simple change which could spare gifters a great deal of grief over sniped gifts.It could also apply to two-way trades, so if the gifter wants to trade more than once with someone, they would remember that person's scroll, this being particularly helpful for forgetful people or people who trade and gift a lot and have a hard time remembering what went where. So, any thoughts on this?

[Fuzzbucket]

If you don't wan to be troubled this way, just ask for a dummy egg. Then you can see who offers. Simples.

 

If you put something up as a gift, no-one who claims it can be called a "sniper". You said it was up for grabs by anyone by putting it up there on a one-way teleport. Sorry - no support.

[MoonlitEevee]

1 hour ago, fuzzbucket said:

If you don't wan to be troubled this way, just ask for a dummy egg. Then you can see who offers. Simples.

 

If you put something up as a gift, no-one who claims it can be called a "sniper". You said it was up for grabs by anyone by putting it up there on a one-way teleport. Sorry - no support.

But then there are those generous people who gift but would like to know where that egg goes. Sometimes the person doesn't respond letting them know where it went. I've seen it happen in the DC Departure thread. 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Dalek Raptor

[HeatherMarie]

I understand wanting to know where your generous gift goes, but I kind of agree with fuzz. It's just the risk you take by putting a one-way transfer out in public, you *know* that it's available to anyone. If you really have to know who it goes to every time, do a two-way and ask for a dummy egg, which is essentially the same thing as a gift but you will be able to see who offers. I think this suggestion would open up the possibility of harassment and abuse, if everyone can see who their gifts go to, well what if a gifter decides that user isn't really worthy of their gift? Or sees that the user has taken gifts from them multiple times and decides the person is greedy? Or sees the users scroll and decides the the user "owes" then an egg now that the user took their gift? No, there is too much possibility of unwillful interaction with this suggestion. When you post the link to a one-way transfer in public you are acknowledging that anyone who sees it is free to take it. If you don't want the possibility of someone taking it without telling you, don't post one-way transfers.

[Fuzzbucket]

28 minutes ago, Dalek Raptor said:

But then there are those generous people who gift but would like to know where that egg goes. Sometimes the person doesn't respond letting them know where it went. I've seen it happen in the DC Departure thread. 

 

YES, I know. It happens all the time.

 

SO - If it troubles you - ask for a dummy egg on a two way teleport. Where's the problem ? You gifted; you know where it went, and then you dump the dummy.

 

And I 100% agree with Marie, too.

Edited September 1, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[StormWizard212]

I get where you're coming from, but I'm with fuzz and Marie on this one. There's already an option if you want to know exactly where your gift goes - open a teleport link and ask for a dummy egg. If someone publicly posts a link to a transfer, then as far as I'm concerned, anyone is within their right to accept it. You lose the right to decide who gets it when you post the link. 

 

2 hours ago, Marie19R said:

When you post the link to a one-way transfer in public you are acknowledging that anyone who sees it is free to take it.

 

This is my thinking. I get that some people want acknowledgement for their gifts, but I think a feature like you're suggesting is opening a channel to vilify those who do accept gifts without the acknowledgement. You've got to consider that sometimes if you post in places like the departure thread, people who aren't actually forum members might pick it up. It would be totally unfair for them to then gain a bad name amongst the community as "snipers", as you put it. And, quite honestly, I'm struggling to see the purpose of a feature like this if it's not to then either 1) contact the person who took the egg or 2) discuss the person who took the egg with others. And in both scenarios, I don't think it's going to be positive engagement with the community. 

 

Your suggestion of showing the name in the action log of someone you did a trade with, however, is something I could get behind. That's a two way communication and would be a useful feature to remember who you've traded with in the past in case you want to again, like you said. That's information that's already been available, after all.

Edited September 1, 2017 by StormWizard212

[The Dragoness]

Speaking as someone who has had gifts "sniped" in the Departures thread, I can understand why you would be frustrated when your request for a simple thank you is ignored, but, as others have said, that's just how free for all links work. You accept that risk when you post any one-way teleport. I especially agree with this:

 

20 minutes ago, StormWizard212 said:

And, quite honestly, I'm struggling to see the purpose of a feature like this if it's not to then either 1) contact the person who took the egg or 2) discuss the person who took the egg with others.

 

There have already been incidents in the Departures thread where "snipers" with their scroll names visible are called out in posts. Some people have even demanded that the gift be given back (which, in my opinion, doesn't make any sense). If you see calling out these people through PMs or posts as a solution, then maybe it would be best to just use two-ways or refrain from gifting altogether. No one deserves to find an angry PM in their inbox. And, honestly, demanding a thank you for a gift takes all of the generosity out of it in my opinion. A gift is a gift. Knowing that you gave someone a nice egg or hatchling that may have made their day should be plenty.

 

I'm sure you have good intentions with this idea, but no support from me. Sorry.

Edited September 1, 2017 by The Dragoness

[MoonlitEevee]

But if you want to use a two-way link to gift, say, a CB Gold Egg (as an example), who do you give the egg to? You certainly want to give it to a person who doesn't have any CBs but then there's the risk you can run into multi-scrollers who can fool you yet at the same time, you really don't want to give it to a person who has multiple CB Golds. Either way, it'll be a dilemma. I can see you're point for common eggs, but this could be used for rarer eggs 🤔 just food for thought *shrugs*

[StormWizard212]

3 minutes ago, Dalek Raptor said:

But if you want to use a two-way link to gift, say, a CB Gold Egg (as an example), who do you give the egg to? You certainly want to give it to a person who doesn't have any CBs but then there's the risk you can run into multi-scrollers who can fool you yet at the same time, you really don't want to give it to a person who has multiple CB Golds. Either way, it'll be a dilemma. I can see you're point for common eggs, but this could be used for rarer eggs 🤔 just food for thought *shrugs*

 

I don't really understand what your point is? If you put it in a transfer link and post it in the departure thread or whatever, then you have no control over who gets it. If their name were to show up in your action log, you'd still have no control over who got it. How does that make a difference in this situation? 

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, Dalek Raptor said:

But if you want to use a two-way link to gift, say, a CB Gold Egg (as an example), who do you give the egg to? You certainly want to give it to a person who doesn't have any CBs but then there's the risk you can run into multi-scrollers who can fool you yet at the same time, you really don't want to give it to a person who has multiple CB Golds. Either way, it'll be a dilemma. I can see you're point for common eggs, but this could be used for rarer eggs 🤔 just food for thought *shrugs*

 

If you want to control who it goes to you HAVE to use a two way teleport and look at  those who offer dummies. Pick the one you like the look of. Sure you might hit a multiscroller - but that will always be a risk however you try to manage things. You could even find the name that shows up in your action log (if this ever happened) didn't tell you what you wanted to know.

 

How can you ever be sure a scroll doesn't belong to a multi-scroller ? You can't. If you don't want to give that gold to someone with multiple golds - use a two way, and look at the scrolls of those who offer. Then all you can do use use your own judgement. Make iut clear ion your post (as many do) that you will decide which offer to accept. 

 

If you can't bear the risk - which is there even if the name flashes up in neon lights the second the egg is picked up  - your only answer is to stop gifting.

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, Dalek Raptor said:

But if you want to use a two-way link to gift, say, a CB Gold Egg (as an example), who do you give the egg to? You certainly want to give it to a person who doesn't have any CBs but then there's the risk you can run into multi-scrollers who can fool you yet at the same time, you really don't want to give it to a person who has multiple CB Golds. Either way, it'll be a dilemma. I can see you're point for common eggs, but this could be used for rarer eggs 🤔 just food for thought *shrugs*

 

I'm not really sure what this has to do with the suggestion? The suggestion is to show the username of someone who has *already taken* a one-way gift. The suggestion would in no way help with what you are saying here. If you want to give a CB Gold to someone who has no CB Golds, your only option is to use a two-way transfer. You can *not* use a one-way transfer, link it in a thread, and somehow expect to control who it goes to. That's just not the way it works.

[Fuzzbucket]

Lord, Marie -  the voice of reason. I completely missed the point here ! Too right - the suggestion wouldn't help at all; it would just create a kind of personal blacklist in your action log. You still couldn't stop whoever in particular taking your eggs without a two way teleport; you could just carry on getting cross if the same person got every single one and watch your blood pressure while you look at that list.

[Predat0rs]

I have had someone take an egg with no thank you, and try to trade it. At first, it was annoying and made me put them on a Permanent Blacklist. However, that was the risk I took by placing a one-way Teleport in there. Heck, it's a risk anyone takes by GIFTING things, regardless if it's on a one-way or a two-way. A "paper trail" of where an egg is, where it goes to, et cetera, would just be terrible. I really don't want my scroll name showing up in anyone else's action log. They would have that information readily available for as long as it shows up in there. It just sounds...stalker-ish, and makes my anxiety go up.

[Aleoleo]

12 hours ago, StormWizard212 said:

Your suggestion of showing the name in the action log of someone you did a trade with, however, is something I could get behind. That's a two way communication and would be a useful feature to remember who you've traded with in the past in case you want to again, like you said. That's information that's already been available, after all.

 

I agree, this could be useful.

 

The rest of the suggestion gets no support from me either though. Yes, it can be annoying when your gifts are swipped again and again without a word (sometimes by online members who just can't be bothered). But:

 

 

No obligation to give anything in return... not even a thank you.

[VixenDra]

Against for one-way transfers - for reasons alrady stated.

Don't rise my temptation to bite on the players who take eggs from "by taking it you agree to never kill it in any way" posts just to kill them either instantly by Biting or later. Because my blood's boiling whenever this happens, no matter when I find out... ^^;

 

I'm indifferent for two-way, since the giftee/trader is revealed during the trading process. As long as it doesn't work for one-way.

[StormBirdRising]

18 hours ago, Felinor said:

Hello! After seeing this happen more and more with people who leave gifts for others to claim, I've come up with a rather simple idea to (hopefully) stop people sniping gifts: the action log to show the scroll on which the gift went, even if it's hidden. So far, when a gift gets claimed, it looks like this on the action log:

 

The idea I'm suggesting would look something like this:

 

The scroll won't be able to be accessed if it's hidden, as it is now, but it would help weed out snipers (maybe even multiscrollers). Also, gifters would have a better track of where do their gifts go. It would be a small and simple change which could spare gifters a great deal of grief over sniped gifts.It could also apply to two-way trades, so if the gifter wants to trade more than once with someone, they would remember that person's scroll, this being particularly helpful for forgetful people or people who trade and gift a lot and have a hard time remembering what went where. So, any thoughts on this?

 

This is the best idea I have seen regarding this issue. Many people are disheartened when their eggs disappear without a trace. This would eliminate the problem. It is short, sweet, and straight to the point.. Players who want the gift don't have to put up a dummy egg if they don't have one, players without forum accounts don't have to worry about how they are going to post a thank-you, since they can't without a forum account. It works for me.

[VixenDra]

22 minutes ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

This is the best idea I have seen regarding this issue. Many people are disheartened when their eggs disappear without a trace. This would eliminate the problem. It is short, sweet, and straight to the point.. Players who want the gift don't have to put up a dummy egg if they don't have one, players without forum accounts don't have to worry about how they are going to post a thank-you, since they can't without a forum account. It works for me.

 

You're forgetting that this is what two-way is for, that dummy eggs can be easly picked up from AP, that this feature WON'T allow thanking (but will allow gifters to demand a thank you:/), that one-way is not for those who expect ANYTHING in return, and that this will increase the issues people already mentioned such as harassment, unnecesary blacklisting, anger etc.

Edited September 2, 2017 by VixenDra

[Predat0rs]

If you MUST know who takes it, two-way it and record somewhere the person, if they do not thank you. I don't want either option, one-way or two-way action log paper trails with my scroll name attached. I would actually probably quit DC if every little move I made was recorded, one-way OR two-way. I do say my "Thank You"s religiously, so it's not that much of an issue regarding myself "sniping", but it actually makes me feel very uneasy thinking about someone having direct access to my scroll name, regardless if I show my scroll name on the dragon's page or not... =/

[StormBirdRising]

41 minutes ago, VixenDra said:

 

You're forgetting that this is what two-way is for, that dummy eggs can be easly picked up from AP, that this feature WON'T allow thanking (but will allow gifters to demand a thank you:/), that one-way is not for those who expect ANYTHING in return, and that this will increase the issues people already mentioned such as harassment, unnecesary blacklisting, anger etc.

 

I'm not forgetting anything. That's the best Idea I have heard. I looked at it from all sides, and it works for me. I don't want a thank you, I don't want a lame egg, when I gift in the forum I just want to know where it goes. I don't care it if it is gifted, frozen, or traded. I just want to know where it goes. I don't know what better English I can use to give my opinion. It works for me. I don't know what kind of harassment or dramatic torture players are expecting from this. It is just a simple quick fix so a gifter can know where the egg went without a bunch of hooplah and without any more effort than I want to exert in gifting an egg or hatchie.

[KrazyKarp]

Encouraging two ways or, my preference, encouraging PMs, seems to be the best way to do this. I don't think adding scroll names to the action log is the right way to do it. Many don't want their scroll name there, and honestly; when something is off of your scroll, you really don't have a say in what happens to it. People politely ask to be told who claims it, people ask for it not to be killed, traded, bitten, etc. (or frozen, which I don't understand but ok? Freezing isn't that bad?), and it's common sense to thank people. But the reality of it is that no one is required to do any of these things. It's the gifter's duty to watch over the egg and possibly blacklist people who do not follow directions such as no killing.

[MissK.]

I don't see the need for a feature like this. I do understand that people can have an instinctual need to know where the egg went to, I have gifted valuable eggs through notification boards and gotten no reply too. In the past I've been guilty of crazy searches to locate 2nd gen tinsels I've bred which have remained unnamed and unbred, just out of curiosity, but even though I somehow managed to find some of the scrolls they gave me no answers. At the end of the day it simply does not matter.

In addition, my scroll is not hidden, but I don't display my name in the dragons' pages nowadays and that's for my own good reasons. A feature like this would override that decision. If a player has their scroll name showing, you can already find them with the current system. If they don't, I don't see why you should be able to find them. The one-way teleport page warns you shouldn't expect anything in return, why should that not apply to finding out the name of the recipent?

Edited September 2, 2017 by MissK.
typos

[Predat0rs]

And I see absolutely  zero "Pros" to this idea. As someone who suffers from anxiety and paranoia, I only show my scroll as much as I am comfortable showing. Like I said, having my scroll name readily available at any time for anyone to see is kind of scary for me. And, it's not "overly dramatic", even if I personally didn't suffer from mental disorders. Malicious intent does not stop here at this wonderful site and community. People could potentially do what they wanted knowing that readily available information at any time. Scroll/View bombing, while the risk has been reduced via TJ's update, is still a thing. I had 2 rare things sick the past few days - Ward only protects up to 4 hours, and hide also only does so much as well. Something could still die, and if it did because someone had my scroll name on hand, and I was asleep and couldn't protect my egg... Not to mention other potential bad things that could happen... I just don't see the "Pros" spoken of.

 

I don't even trust the two-way system for seeing where something goes because many of us do not have the same forum names as scroll names. It does me no good except to stalk their scroll or something. I rely on "Thank You"s within the forum (via PM or comment) to tell me who took my thing. And when I don't get or receive the common, respectful courtesy, I just shrug and move on with my day. I took the risk by throwing it in there as a FFA, right?

 

Ultimately: If you MUST know where something goes: Glomp it to someone specifically, or two-way it. A few extra steps/time would not kill you. Trust me, I know. Or, if your time is that precious to you, maybe you shouldn't put them in the Departures but rather the AP. No one is obligated to tell you they took a one-way transfer, and I want to keep it that way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited September 2, 2017 by Metal-n-Monster

[Fuzzbucket]

2 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

I'm not forgetting anything. That's the best Idea I have heard. I looked at it from all sides, and it works for me. I don't want a thank you, I don't want a lame egg, when I gift in the forum I just want to know where it goes. I don't care it if it is gifted, frozen, or traded. I just want to know where it goes. I don't know what better English I can use to give my opinion. It works for me. I don't know what kind of harassment or dramatic torture players are expecting from this. It is just a simple quick fix so a gifter can know where the egg went without a bunch of hooplah and without any more effort than I want to exert in gifting an egg or hatchie.

 

It's no hoopla using a two-way instead. Why should you know where it goes anyway ? what possible difference does it make to anything ? but if you HAVE to know, it's up to YOU to track it. Which is so easy with a two-way.

 

38 minutes ago, Metal-n-Monster said:

Ultimately: If you MUST know where something goes: Glomp it to someone specifically, or two-way it. A few extra steps/time would not kill you. Trust me, I know. Or, if your time is that precious to you, maybe you shouldn't put them in the Departures but rather the AP. No one is obligated to tell you they took a one-way transfer, and I want to keep it that way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

1000% agree with this.

[HeatherMarie]

3 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

I'm not forgetting anything. That's the best Idea I have heard. I looked at it from all sides, and it works for me. I don't want a thank you, I don't want a lame egg, when I gift in the forum I just want to know where it goes. I don't care it if it is gifted, frozen, or traded. I just want to know where it goes. I don't know what better English I can use to give my opinion. It works for me. I don't know what kind of harassment or dramatic torture players are expecting from this. It is just a simple quick fix so a gifter can know where the egg went without a bunch of hooplah and without any more effort than I want to exert in gifting an egg or hatchie.

 

"Dramatic torture" is a bit of an exaggeration, but the potential harassment we are concerned about is not simple paranoia on our parts. We *already have* trading harassment happening, on the forums and off, in many different forms. It's already an issue, and it can only get worse if users can suddenly see who picks up their *gift*, and decide that that person doesn't deserve it, or they deserve something in return, etc... Because that *is* what some users will use this feature for. You say you just want to know where your gift goes... That's exactly what happens with two-way transfers. You get to know where your gift goes. And two-way transfers are not some huge complicated thing, anyone can grab a dummy from the AP in two seconds, and any gifter can abandon that dummy in two seconds.

 

The bare fact is, there is no real reason to have a giftee's username show up in your action log, if you don't plan to react in any way to that information. If you want to see who your gift goes to there is already a mechanism in place for that, the two-way transfer. If a giftee's username shows up in the gifter's action log for an entire month every single time the giftee grabs a *no strings attached* gift, there will be gifters who try to contact that person, who want something in return, who decide that person has enough good dragons so they shouldn't take gifts anymore, etcetc. That's not a "what if", that *will* happen, because it already happens in other types of trading. DragonCave is very big on "wilful" communication between users, and this would not be that.

[Fuzzbucket]

Applauds wildly.

 

StormBirdRising  - I can only assume you have never been harassed to breed, or to give something back. I have. I have even had to block another user's EMAILS in my time. Now THAT takes time and effort - far more than just dumping a dummy egg.