2017-02-14 - Valentine's Day!

[Whitefire]

Yes, and also then i would like to know if the descripition will be changed. Why talking about a pearl in the antlers when the pearl clearly is in the paw? 

Because maybe.... just maybe.... the pearl isn't in the paw At All Times and is sometimes.... suspended between the antlers gasp, what? Ok, maybe a bit too much sass there (the granted the intent was humor) but basically unless it happens, i dont think the desc needs to be changed. It's not like the pearl won't *ever* be between the antlers, just in the little depiction there it happens to be in the paw ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[hazelstormll]

http://prntscr.com/eak869

WOAH GOT SOME TRACERS ON OUR HANDS

http://prntscr.com/eak953

SOMEONE CALL THE ART POLICE WE GOT A TRACER

http:// /eak98s

WHAT IS THIS OVERWATCH LMAO LOOK AT ALL THESE TRACERS

 

That pose was so generic that if you google "horse walking" it will match nearly every stock photo you see. By the logic being used here all the images I've screencapped need to be taken off the internet and destroyed.

This is like saying that Da Vinci should sue any work which depicts a human in the anatomical position because he drew the original Vetruvian Man, and especially considering that poses aren't protected under copyright ANYWAY, I conclude that this is more horse-dung (keepin it PG13 on this here forum) than anything that comes out of the animals depicted in the given stock photos.

 

(im only really this adamant because i liked the original ones better, and it sucks that such great designs got replaced by someone else's rendition because the self-proclaimed art police decided to make Valentines Day the target of their latest witchhunt).

i beelieve that what you're saying is reasonable, honey

[Moonlight_Eevee]

If we're having problems with these dragons and a lot of dragons are referenced with pictures, should TJ go in and tell everyone to rework their dragons because a certain body type like the head, body, leg, tail, or wing looks like eerily similar to that of the picture?

 

Because I know this got lost

[Grandmother_cathie]

I think the 60 day agreement is being ignored by some because it was VERY OBVIOUSLY a breach. <snip>

The sketch being available, even if it was on the 100th page of "My crappy sketches - don't look," is still a breach of the contract and makes the original dragon unusable. The super extra closeness / tracing issue seems to be a bolster. Thank you, TJ for clearing up what happened. I kinda hate that you have to keep explaining and explaining.

 

 

That being said, Here is the post I tried to post last night for 2 hours while this topic was locked:

 

 

I liked the old s1 - I thought it kinda looked like the s1 for the Radiant Angels.

 

I love the new s1 because I agree that it looks like a baby goat with it's butt on fire and baby goats completely make me laugh like a child. I'm now in love with the s1s and will be collecting them next year.

 

I'm indifferent to the old s2 - They didn't keep the elegant stance of the old s1 but they were ok. They look like an elk or a buck seen from a distance.

 

The new s2s look like someone just told a baby goat that their butt...um...tail was on fire and they are not only startled, but also trying to look quickly to see about their tail. She's going to go tail over teakettle any minute now.

 

I like the old sprite. I think that Edwardelricfreak, Tazzay did a lovely job (far better than I would have been able to do). I especially think they did a good job with having enough muscle in the shoulder area to carry the wing joint and the arm joint at the same time. She reminded me of a heraldic stag with it's hooves and bushy tail with added wings and a golden orb. I wish I had a scanner so I could send my copy of Fox-Davies A Complete Guide to Heraldry, 1909! I wondered if they were somehow related to the Horse dragons based on her blue-purple tones.

 

I really like the new sprite. I think the anonymous spriter did an excellent job (and kept the goat like tail I like so much.) I like the more draconian feet, horns, and lack of ears. I like that the golden markings are more pronounced on the underwing and the heart on the shoulder. I especially like that her pearl is pearl colored rather than gold.

 

I have three things that I'm disappointed about. First, the horns on the adult seem to get lost on the scroll colored paper. Second, that it seems there might not be a spriter's alt to this lovely. And, third, that there seems to be such drama.

 

We are not bees. (For Bees go here) We are not Llamas. We need no drama. We need dragons (that look like goats as babies).

[Xylene]

We're still having fun, and relieved other people are interested! (-waves at Aurae-)

 

[22:27:45] <Paradoxangel> Honestly xy i was assuming antlers were inherently magnetic (and each individual dragon has a unique resonance based on the amount and  types of metal consumed) and that the antler bit was coated in layers of magic so. Yeah it is virtually impossible to steal someone elses pearl. Possibly, if they've had a life altering event or abrupt diet change, they wouldn't be able to handle their pearl and would have to form a new one

[22:28:53] <XyIene> I like the mental image of a dragon making their pearl around a chunk of cobalt and then just swallowing it

[22:28:58] <XyIene> some cobalt, not the pearl. CHOMP

[22:29:02] <Paradoxangel> Your iron intake heavily influences circulation. Zinc. Potassium. Manganese. All actual metals found in the human body.

[22:29:46] <Paradoxangel> Dragons probably consume gold in small quantities

[22:30:55] <@Tehpikachu> ye we do consume metal, but it's common in fiction for dragons to consume metal on a large scale, like coins and the like

[22:30:59] <XyIene> But if each dragon has a resonance based on amount + types of metal consumed, would it be reasonable to assume related dragons that live together would likely have similar genetic/physical makeups, and also similar diets?

[22:31:15] <XyIene> Not that it'd make them able to steal each other's pearls, but it would play on the "similar/related dragons have a better chance of being able to handle each other's pearls" idea.

[22:31:39] <Paradoxangel> Yes

 

See, but this is Dragon Cave. Can't these dragons just make the pearls hover with the same magic that they used to conjure them?

Yep, but I was thinking that story-magic shouldn't be overpowered- there should be reasons and limits on them! Not that I'm saying it's impossible or unreasonable, just that it would be easier (or require less magic/energy) for a dragon that knows the makeup of the pearl it's using. ouo

 

Consider how sports balls (soccer-, volley-, or medicine) vary- while you can run up and kick them all with the same power, they'll be sent different distances due to what they're made up of and their weights. If you know what you're dealing with, you can kick with less or more force and save your energy. (Also, if you kick a medicine ball you might hurt your foot! That brings up an interesting idea; do dragons end up needing the pearl to nullify or regulate the energy they're putting out?)

[Tazzay]

Look, while everyone is discussing what is right and what is wrong, I wanna say this

 

Yes, I used to trace. Keyword - USED to. I did this to help learn anatomy a while ago (back when i was 11/12 - 2008/2009 - note this) Then I moved onto odeen says she does, looking at pictures and trying to imitate the pose, but with drawing a different picture. A lot of artists do this to learn.

 

The dragon sketch was made over three years ago, but not by me. I made a concept sketch, but it was not the one used for the sprite, it was simply to show the design. I again, did watch eef make the sketch, as we were discussing on how things should be on the dragon. There was one (1) reference that she used to help her with the positioning of the legs, the rest was done on her own. All of these images being shown were not that reference that she used, rather they are things that look similar to it - aka, a coincidence.

 

Look, the last thing is that I want to ask for people to stop going out of their way and 'warning' other site owners about using eef's or my art. It isn't fair for us if people go out - again - on a witch hunt to destroy our image like that. Digging into our deviant art account (which, mind, with my account I haven't logged in in almost three years) to 'find' things that look like the pose our dragons are in is just wanting to make us look worse. I get that some of you are in a mood about this, but I just want it to stop, please.

 

Both eef and I feel like we're now being stalked over this incident. We've started removing links to our other profiles because of it. We are both trying to distance ourselves from this in order to calm down and forget about it, but some of you are following us to other places to continue to make us look bad. Is it really fair for that to happen to us?

 

I have asked for the names, descriptions and resemblances to our dragon be changed, and at the same time we will change the dragon so that it will look different in the future.

 

Please, just for everyone's sake - leave this be. Please stop.

[DuskOfTheStars]

http://prntscr.com/eak869

WOAH GOT SOME TRACERS ON OUR HANDS

http://prntscr.com/eak953

SOMEONE CALL THE ART POLICE WE GOT A TRACER

http:// /eak98s

WHAT IS THIS OVERWATCH LMAO LOOK AT ALL THESE TRACERS

 

That pose was so generic that if you google "horse walking" it will match nearly every stock photo you see. By the logic being used here all the images I've screencapped need to be taken off the internet and destroyed.

This is like saying that Da Vinci should sue any work which depicts a human in the anatomical position because he drew the original Vetruvian Man, and especially considering that poses aren't protected under copyright ANYWAY, I conclude that this is more horse-dung (keepin it PG13 on this here forum) than anything that comes out of the animals depicted in the given stock photos.

 

(im only really this adamant because i liked the original ones better, and it sucks that such great designs got replaced by someone else's rendition because the self-proclaimed art police decided to make Valentines Day the target of their latest witchhunt).

These are all different enough that they DON'T line up exactly, except for ones that are together in the same image and appear to have been done by the same person. Those ones only line up with each other. On the other claw, the Cermvros sketches did line up EXACTLY with another picture.

 

Look at PieMaster's post at the top of this page. (134) He explains how that's a problem.

 

Oh, and the originals STILL can't be used because the sketch for the adult was publicly available while it was supposed to be secret.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Dusky_Flareon

[Alrexwolf]

The sketch being available, even if it was on the 100th page of "My crappy sketches - don't look," is still a breach of the contract and makes the original dragon unusable. The super extra closeness / tracing issue seems to be a bolster. Thank you, TJ for clearing up what happened. I kinda hate that you have to keep explaining and explaining.

In my opinion TJ should not have said anything about the tracing. The breach of contract was enough to have it pulled.

 

It seems incredibly malicious to smear the name of two artists - with no REAL proof, only speculative images provided by someone who went through every single image on one of their DA's (according to Tazzar, anyway, the one image EEF was accused of tracing was from six years ago).

 

If TJ had just explained about the breach of contract it would have been fine. That is a legitimate enough reason. But his post made it seem like the tracing was "needed" in conjunction with the contract breach.

 

There was no need for him to incite all of this drama, and there is only TJ to blame for the tracing argument, in the end.

 

 

Still. Tazzay's PF post says they would like the species to be removed entirely - are we going to continue ignoring that?

[Imzadi]

The artist agreement says art has to be replaced with a "suitable replacement," but since they were so new to the site, couldn't a "suitable replacement" have been an entirely new dragon instead?

 

 

 

TJ posted on the 17th that he had been in contact with one of the spriters the night before...so, that would be late the 16th or early the 17th. The drop was over, people had hatchlings. And suddenly they poof and everyone has to run out to get new eggs? And they might not be purple if there were no purple concept available. And the eggs would not have the 14th as the day they were caught. Some people set a lot of store on the date thing, even for normal releases.

 

No matter how it was handled it was going to be a hot mess. And I don't care to get into tracing or copyright or anything else. I can't draw to save my life. Even my stick figures are a joke.. But the sketch did violate the agreement and that is not TJs fault.

 

I did like the first s1 hatchie, but actually I like the new adult better for some reason known only to my brain and its perceptions. No criticism to anyone.

[Pixxelation]

Yes, I used to trace. Keyword - USED to. I did this to help learn anatomy a while ago (back when i was 11/12 - 2008/2009 - note this) Then I moved onto odeen says she does, looking at pictures and trying to imitate the pose, but with drawing a different picture. A lot of artists do this to learn.

what about all that traced art you got caught trying to pass as your own on tale of dragons and dc

[angelicdragonpuppy]

This has quickly gone off-forums due to the ease of typing in an IRC instead, so I'll leave you with more brainstorming Para + Pika + I are doing and call it a night.

 

 

 

The thing I was wondering about the Metal + Antler idea is, if they're choosing a specific metal and mixing it with their antlers, they must be able to adjust the magnetic output of their antlers- basically, account for how heavy the pearl is and how strong or weak the magnetism is for varied metals. (For example, Iron, and Cobalt are magnetic, while others like Aluminum or Tin are more affected by magnetism.)

 

Since what's inside the pearl would be a mystery to dragons other than the pearl creator, the weight of pearl vs metal and the required output to make it 'float' would be difficult to figure out.

I love all the mental images you guys are giving me with the juggling and jerks

Edited February 19, 2017 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Aurae]

We're still having fun, and relieved other people are interested! (-waves at Aurae-)

 

 

 

 

Yep, but I was thinking that story-magic shouldn't be overpowered- there should be reasons and limits on them! Not that I'm saying it's impossible or unreasonable, just that it would be easier (or require less magic/energy) for a dragon that knows the makeup of the pearl it's using. ouo

 

Consider how sports balls (soccer-, volley-, or medicine) vary- while you can run up and kick them all with the same power, they'll be sent different distances due to what they're made up of and their weights. If you know what you're dealing with, you can kick with less or more force and save your energy. (Also, if you kick a medicine ball you might hurt your foot! That brings up an interesting idea; do dragons end up needing the pearl to nullify or regulate the energy they're putting out?)

*wave back*

 

I like the idea that it's down to magnetic fields and not the ultimate fantasy excuse of "magic". Metals are so connected with dragons that it makes perfect sense when you think about it. Interesting that perhaps they require it to regulate energy but that would make the pearl a sort of power-sink, wouldn't it? How would that work?

[Ryh]

Wow, I've just come back after a long time to check out the news, but, can someone enlighten me on what's going on? I've probably missed the new valentines dragons too, darn... guess that's just bad luck on my end ):

[Erytheros]

Yep, but I was thinking that story-magic shouldn't be overpowered- there should be reasons and limits on them! Not that I'm saying it's impossible or unreasonable, just that it would be easier (or require less magic/energy) for a dragon that knows the makeup of the pearl it's using. ouo

 

Consider how sports balls (soccer-, volley-, or medicine) vary- while you can run up and kick them all with the same power, they'll be sent different distances due to what they're made up of and their weights. If you know what you're dealing with, you can kick with less or more force and save your energy. (Also, if you kick a medicine ball you might hurt your foot! That brings up an interesting idea; do dragons end up needing the pearl to nullify or regulate the energy they're putting out?)

An interesting point. But I think that the dragons wouldn't necessarily need to know the exact makeup of the pearl it's carrying. Think about it like this: My toes have been different sizes during different stages of my life. I never really knew the percentage of calcium and iron and all that, and I couldn't tell you an approximate weight of all of my toes, but I still carry them around with the proper amount of expended energy. I imagine it would be instinctive.

Plus, I can look at a football and know just how hard I needed to kick it. If it were a baseball, then I'd treat it differently because of its appearance. In the same way, a pearl composed of different proportions of metals might look drastically different or have a different magic aura. The dragon could make an estimate based off of that.

[Odeen]

~Removed~

 

I am loving the theorycrafting in how the pearl works though, Xylene. Very nice!

Edited February 19, 2017 by TJ09

[AppleMango]

TJ posted on the 17th that he had been in contact with one of the spriters the night before...so, that would be late the 16th or early the 17th. The drop was over, people had hatchlings. And suddenly they poof and everyone has to run out to get new eggs? And they might not be purple if there were no purple concept available. And the eggs would not have the 14th as the day they were caught. Some people set a lot of store on the date thing, even for normal releases.

 

No matter how it was handled it was going to be a hot mess. And I don't care to get into tracing or copyright or anything else. I can't draw to save my life. Even my stick figures are a joke.. But the sketch did violate the agreement and that is not TJs fault.

 

I did like the first s1 hatchie, but actually I like the new adult better for some reason known only to my brain and its perceptions. No criticism to anyone.

I don't think we'd have to run out and get new eggs. It would be more like *poof the sprites and descriptions suddenly changed to completely different ones* instead of *poof, the sprites changed to different ones that are meant to be like the first*

I think that would have caused less drama, tbh.

 

 

[Dianacat777]

I do feel if Tazzay (and EdwardElricFreak) want(s) the breed as it stands to be removed, those wishes should be honored. In their shoes, I wouldn't have wanted to be told my sprites were unsuitable and then have somebody else do the replacement entirely, without being given the chance to create a replacement myself.

 

Though, again, were they to be replaced with a different breed, that's just going to create more complaints and drama.

 

I don't think we'd have to run out and get new eggs. It would be more like *poof the sprites and descriptions suddenly changed to completely different ones* instead of *poof, the sprites changed to different ones that are meant to be like the first*

I think that would have caused less drama, tbh.

I respectfully disagree. Pretty sure it would have been equal drama if not more.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Dianacat777

[Alrexwolf]

I am appalled that the staff on a site - even if they're not admins or mods, but spriters - could be allowed to act this way.

 

Totally inappropriate behavior. All you're doing is inciting more anger and outrage based on no proof.

[DuskOfTheStars]

To everyone involved in the pearl discussion - I'm enjoying reading through it, seriously this is so going in depth snd I love it.

[TJ09]

There was one (1) reference that she used to help her with the positioning of the legs, the rest was done on her own. All of these images being shown were not that reference that she used, rather they are things that look similar to it - aka, a coincidence.

The image that I called a "reference" in my post was provided to me by edwardelricfreak upon asking for the references used to create the sketch. If it was not actually used, as you claim, then I don't know why she would have sent it to me.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Wow, I've just come back after a long time to check out the news, but, can someone enlighten me on what's going on? I've probably missed the new valentines dragons too, darn... guess that's just bad luck on my end ):

Ask around the forums, someone might be bound to give you one

 

Anyway, there's a lot of drama about the sprites. EEF and Tazzy are being accused of tracing a part of the dragon (and Tazzy has a record of this) and their sprite was replaced with the sprite we have right now.

[AppleMango]

I am appalled that the staff on a site - even if they're not admins or mods, but spriters - could be allowed to act this way.

 

Totally inappropriate behavior. All you're doing is inciting more anger and outrage based on no proof.

I agree. It is making it seem like they have a personal vendetta against Tazzay, which is what they are saying is happening. ;/

 

[Dianacat777]

I am appalled that the staff on a site - even if they're not admins or mods, but spriters - could be allowed to act this way.

 

Totally inappropriate behavior. All you're doing is inciting more anger and outrage based on no proof.

Spriters are not staff. They have a contractual agreement to DC, but they're not staff.

 

And, again, the tracing isn't even necessarily the point. The contract was breached even without it.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

TJ posted on the 17th that he had been in contact with one of the spriters the night before...so, that would be late the 16th or early the 17th. The drop was over, people had hatchlings. And suddenly they poof and everyone has to run out to get new eggs? And they might not be purple if there were no purple concept available. And the eggs would not have the 14th as the day they were caught. Some people set a lot of store on the date thing, even for normal releases.

 

No matter how it was handled it was going to be a hot mess. And I don't care to get into tracing or copyright or anything else. I can't draw to save my life. Even my stick figures are a joke.. But the sketch did violate the agreement and that is not TJs fault.

 

I did like the first s1 hatchie, but actually I like the new adult better for some reason known only to my brain and its perceptions. No criticism to anyone.

Not deletion. Fog until replacement. It's happened on site before with oddball eggs from GoNs x newly released not yet elemental breeds. Admittedly stranger here but still possible.

 

Or heck, just replace the sprites immediately with whatever other amazing Valentine concept was second place this time around. I imagine there's at least a dozen nice options.

[Alrexwolf]

Spriters are not staff. They have a contractual agreement to DC, but they're not staff.

 

And, again, the tracing isn't even necessarily the point. The contract was breached even without it.

Semantics - they are a part of the site. I consider them to be staff. They hold a position within the site, whatever other word there is for it, it's appalling that they're allowed to harass and antagonize anyone else. No matter what they're accused of.