Allow "Foreign Characters" in Dragon Names

[Starbit]

Google Translate is not a solution. It is not always correct, can butcher the intended meaning, or the phrase may be something colloquially offensive but in literal translation is seemingly innocent.

 

Our mods cannot be expected to try and translate different alphabets.

[Fuzzbucket]

Google Translate is not a solution. It is not always correct, can butcher the intended meaning, or the phrase may be something colloquially offensive but in literal translation is seemingly innocent.

 

Our mods cannot be expected to try and translate different alphabets.

This. I well recall when someone was determined we could use it at work. Trying to demonstrate that it was not a solution, I ran something through into Farsi (the language we needed at the time) - about how children need milk. Then I ran it back into English and it came up as something about Albert and a cow.

 

But translation isn't the primary issue for me. If (and I think we wouldn't) we allow names in other alphabets, it will be a short step to people asking for that to be allowed on the forum as well - where we are already modded for posting in French and German.

 

Bottom line - this is an American site. I don't think TJ should be expected to code for other alphabets - even if it's easy. As Apple says - there are sites which tell you how a Japanese name sounds - why not just transliterate it, if it's that important ?

Edited December 8, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[Obscure_Trash]

Our mods cannot be expected to try and translate different alphabets.

Why not? We already translate different languages, since there are no rules on language for names, just that they need to be appropriate. Plus, there are some languages that translators won't translate when anglicized or written without the proper characters. So actually, if we're arguing this way, it'd be easier on us to catch inappropriate names if we did allow all special characters.

 

Again, I don't really have a strong opinion on this suggestion one way or another, but I don't think modding names is a good argument to back either side, as any problems we would have with new characters pretty much already exists. ;3

[AppleMango]

@Starbit & fuzz - Google translate will give you a rough idea of what it means. I know it isn't perfect, but the idea is that if it's written in the correct alphabet, you have a better idea of what it means. If I write "Watashi wa pan ga suki desu" and you try and put it into google translate, you aren't going to get any closer to the meaning. But if I type 私はパンが好きです and you paste that into google translate, you're going to get a rough idea of what it says.

As for it being colloquially offensive, you're going to have that problem with English too. And like I said, people are going to name their dragons in different languages no matter what, so that problem will still exist. It's not really a valid reason against foreign characters.

 

 

@fuzz - It's not at work though. It's just a website for fun. It definitely doesn't work for long documents and important things, but this is just a game. The meaning isn't that important. I'm just saying - if you care that much about being able to read what something is called, you can put it in google translate, and it will show you how to read it, as well as a rough translation.

I mean - I don't see the problem with people posting in other languages on the forum either. Not everywhere of course - but there was one forum I was on where there was a "languages" section and there was the threads for different languages and people were able to speak in the language in that thread. I'm not sure if it was modded or there was a big warning saying it wasn't modded or anything around that - but it was there. And I don't think it was a big deal.

Lots of people do just write the names in romaji and name their dragons in Japanese - or other languages, I just don't understand why you're so against them naming them properly.

It's not that big a deal to me I just don't understand why some people in this thread are so worried about seeing foreign characters around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I'm for having foreign characters allowed for names, and I am more for having accented letters. As someone who is learning Spanish, I can tell you that 'mi papa tiene 47 anos' and 'mi papá tiene 47 años' have very different meanings.

Edited December 9, 2016 by AppleMango

[Pokemonfan13]

Oh god yes, that little ~ can be important. x3 (and turning father into potato too, good choice of phrase for your example)

 

I don't know, to me the worries about not having the fonts for all the various characters seems like a bigger concern. Your Japanese is turning up fine for me, but I wonder if it's working for everyone, and if other languages would work. Real foreign characters are one thing, but some people ending up with the things browsers put up when they can't display a character as names wouldn't be good.

 

And how all inclusive do you get? There's pretty obvious ones, but there are others that aren't as well known. Is there an easy way for TJ to just include *everything*, or are we going to get people who speak these less known languages coming to the forums to ask why *their* alphabet isn't available for dragon names?

 

I think that just adding the accented characters would be the best bet. At least as a start. I'm not sure if I really have a compelling reason, though.

 

Although I think I might have found a decent one. If people can name their dragons in Japanese characters, then those same characters would have to be available for use in descriptions or people wouldn't be able to use the name of the dragon in their description. And there's a pretty firm "descriptions must be in English" rule. It might not be a problem, but I might as well mention it.

[AppleMango]

Oh god yes, that little ~ can be important. x3 (and turning father into potato too, good choice of phrase for your example)

 

I don't know, to me the worries about not having the fonts for all the various characters seems like a bigger concern.  Your Japanese is turning up fine for me, but I wonder if it's working for everyone, and if other languages would work.  Real foreign characters are one thing, but some people ending up with the things browsers put up when they can't display a character as names wouldn't be good.

 

And how all inclusive do you get?  There's pretty obvious ones, but there are others that aren't as well known.  Is there an easy way for TJ to just include *everything*, or are we going to get people who speak these less known languages coming to the forums to ask why *their* alphabet isn't available for dragon names?

 

I think that just adding the accented characters would be the best bet.  At least as a start.  I'm not sure if I really have a compelling reason, though.

 

Although I think I might have found a decent one.  If people can name their dragons in Japanese characters, then those same characters would have to be available for use in descriptions or people wouldn't be able to use the name of the dragon in their description.  And there's a pretty firm "descriptions must be in English" rule.  It might not be a problem, but I might as well mention it.

I stole the example from facebook actually haha. But yeah it's pretty funny ^^

 

Those are all good points. I agree that if we ever do have foreign characters we should bridge it with accents first. (Although this doesn't mean if we do get accents I will expect foreign characters.)

 

I saw a video not long ago that said something about unicode and you can just use the code someone else has already written so I imagine that would have them all and he can use that. But I'm not sure.

We can always have an "opt-out" system where you can have dragons codes displayed instead of foreign characters. Idk.

 

That's actually a good point - but it wouldn't just be dragons named in Japanese that would have parts that aren't English in it - it would be the ones with accented letters too. I don't really care if people use the names in the correct characters in their descriptions - but I can see how it would be a problem. I mean, we could always have people choosing between naming their dragons with characters and being able to put the dragon's name as it's written in the description.

I think this is a super valid point - but also not everyone uses descriptions and people that don't shouldn't have to miss out on naming their dragons in characters just because some people write descriptions. Is what I'm trying to say, I guess?

Edited December 20, 2016 by AppleMango

[Wildmoon]

Kind of a little off topic, but if there was an option to opt out, or to also have the dragons code displayed.

 

Then perhaps there could be a way of naming 2 dragons the same name.

Say you want to call your dragon "Bob" but it's taken? Well why not be able to call it "Bob" anyway and when you search "Bob" it will come up with all the dragons with that name, as well as displaying their codes and possibly their owners so you can easily find the one your'e looking for? (also, having a searchbar to search for a specific dragon would be pretty cool, and helpful when trying to find out if your dragon is from a specific lineage, ect)

 

Anyway, that's a whole other suggestion so I won't go into that, it's just a thought I had reading that last post =P

 

Anyway, back on topic. I can see how having Cyrillic or Japanese alphabets for example, could be a bit more complicated - but if it's just a dragon name, I see no problem with it, because google translate can give you a rough meaning (it tends to mess up more on larger sentence structures than just small names) I do agree that it's probably better with romanised text, or at least at first, though.

 

On the topic of offensive names, you get the same problem even if it's just in english.

 

I'm sorry for the.. slight "swearing" ahead, but I have, in the past, seen dragon's named "fukin" and "azz"

:/

[Fuzzbucket]

If you saw names like that - report them. I did that for a few - very nasty ones....

 

PLEASE no duplicate names though.

[Nine]

I'd be fine with accented names, even if they were programmed to be 'normalized'. Though I would still weep bitter tears for not being able to get the name Jägermeister.

[LadyShadowHeart]

There's no stopping people who give nasty names to their dragons. I've seen the names ~Censor evasion removed~ and All Men Are Pigs (both of which I reported), but nothing ever came of it.

 

Anyway, you have my support for foreign characters.

Edited February 12, 2017 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Luxrayx]

I support this idea for mostly selfish reasons. I've always wanted to name a dragon Vårin, and English-ifying it to Vaurin or Vaarin doesn't look right at all. And I'm sure I'm not the only person who has had this problem with foreign letters that just don't translate well! Is the main argument against this that it will be hard for English-speaking people to understand? Because whether I write Vårin or Vaurin, an English speaker probably won't know how to pronounce it either way. I really don't see how this could be a big (negative) deal...

[Nayelianne]

I support this. c: I've tried using accents on dragon names in the past and was pretty bummed that it didn't work.

[grimace]

All I want in the world is to be able to own a dragon named <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Y̴̔~Removed page stretching. ~

Edited February 23, 2017 by _Z_

[Tehpikachu]

All I want in the world is to be able to own a 

if i was able to have a dragon with a name like this, the circle of my life would be complete

~Removed page stretching.~

Edited February 23, 2017 by _Z_

[Fuzzbucket]

Well, that would be a shame, grimace - I can't see your dragon's name at all. But I think there's a character limit, so...

Edited February 23, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[cyradis4]

Good GOD this is why I don't want any foreign characters!

 

There is a line of text CLEAR down this entire page, going over all posts, making it extremely hard to read and messing up the posts that are showing properly. Its from (I think) the browser's misguided attempt to translate. Its royally failing, and causing lots of problems. And I'm using the newest Chrome.

 

And its trying it.... despite my order to it to NOT do so. >.<

 

No, I do not support foreign alphabets. At all. Because this is an English site, and it (and most of the users on it) are not set up for foreign alphabets. This is a prime example of why I don't want foreign alphabets on this site.

 

Now, the English letters with accents and stuff, those are ok because they show up fine regardless.

 

But I do NOT support non-Latin characters.

 

C4.

[purplehaze]

I am on Firefox and getting the same effect as C4.

 

Looks like this: http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c122/not...zpsizh8bzsw.png

[Fuzzbucket]

Good GOD this is why I don't want any foreign characters!

 

There is a line of text CLEAR down this entire page, going over all posts, making it extremely hard to read and messing up the posts that are showing properly. Its from (I think) the browser's misguided attempt to translate. Its royally failing, and causing lots of problems. And I'm using the newest Chrome.

 

And its trying it.... despite my order to it to NOT do so. >.<

 

No, I do not support foreign alphabets. At all. Because this is an English site, and it (and most of the users on it) are not set up for foreign alphabets. This is a prime example of why I don't want foreign alphabets on this site.

 

Now, the English letters with accents and stuff, those are ok because they show up fine regardless.

 

But I do NOT support non-Latin characters.

 

C4.

I've got rid of it with element blocker . But yes. Though mine is all across the page. And getting rid has done something RATHER odd to the rest of the page.

 

And I don't support non-Latin characters either.

Edited February 23, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[legofrodo12]

Yes, I support this. I name my dragons in Tolkien's elvish languages fairly regularly, and there are a good many names where I wish I could have the proper accents on them. The names look weird to me without it. I am neutral on foreign alphabets. If TJ and mods are okay with it, cool. No duplicate names, please. If you really want a certain name, then be creative! That's one reason why I my dragons named in Elvish have the English translation as a surname.

 

That line of characters though...

[grimace]

Actually if it changes anyones mind, you COULDN'T do that to dragon names.

Theres a character limit, and the name i posted is well over 10,000 characters.

[Fuzzbucket]

Actually if it changes anyones mind, you COULDN'T do that to dragon names.

Theres a character limit, and the name i posted is well over 10,000 characters.

Please would you unpost it ? It is really messing up the whole thread.

 

And I think there is something in the post Tehpikachu quoted it in.... as I have blocked YOURS but that post is being awkward to block because of the quote...

Edited February 23, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[diaveborn]

Actually if it changes anyones mind, you COULDN'T do that to dragon names.

Theres a character limit

*nod*

 

So I don't get why what happened is a good reason to not allow certain characters in names. This suggestion isn't talking about opening up more stuff to the forums.

[bob_jones]

I don't mind the idea of different characters and alphabets being included. And honestly I think all the arguments about feeling "left out" are kind of silly. Why should I care what anyone else names their dragon? If you give your dragon some Buffy the Vampire Slayer reference name, should I feel "left out" because I've never seen the show? If not, then that argument doesn't hold up when it comes to other characters or languages either.

 

An argument I do understand is how certain characters sometimes show up as boxes, but I personally don't really care about that either. It's no great loss to me if I can't read someone else's dragon name, and if it makes them happy to name their dragon in their language of choice, I'm all for it.

[DragonsDame]

Good GOD this is why I don't want any foreign characters!

 

There is a line of text CLEAR down this entire page, going over all posts, making it extremely hard to read and messing up the posts that are showing properly. Its from (I think) the browser's misguided attempt to translate. Its royally failing, and causing lots of problems. And I'm using the newest Chrome.

 

And its trying it.... despite my order to it to NOT do so. >.<

 

No, I do not support foreign alphabets. At all. Because this is an English site, and it (and most of the users on it) are not set up for foreign alphabets. This is a prime example of why I don't want foreign alphabets on this site.

 

Now, the English letters with accents and stuff, those are ok because they show up fine regardless.

 

But I do NOT support non-Latin characters.

 

C4.

Non Latin characters are really difficult but for example this:

 

é á ó etc???

 

 

Come on, I know this is an English site, but how many of its users are non-English??? In fact I'm pretty sure some of the spriters are non-English?

I would be proud to name my dragons in a proper Hungarian way, and I feel it's discriminating the site doesn't allow me to do so!

Edited April 21, 2017 by DragonsDame

[TJ09]

For anyone curious how normalization for de-duplicating names would work, the site currently normalizes characters in usernames and dragon names (as of a month or two ago).

 

For example, https://dragcave.net/view/n/Muwá Thuwed should currently redirect to https://dragcave.net/view/n/Muwa Thuwed.

 

In such a world, allowing people to display the name Muwá Thuwed, while the site treats it as if the dragon is actually named Muwa Thuwed is really not a huge deal.