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angelicdragonpuppy

Raise odds of successful zombification

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I've been keeping an eye on this thread https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=101138 since the new zombie making process was added, and it looks like the odds are still really, really low--even when zombies are showing. Add in how low the chance of even successfully killing a dragon in the first place, the long kill cooldown, and how many zombie varieties exist (with more to be added), and I'm willing to wager it would take the better part of a year and over 50 dragons dead to get a single zombie of each type.

 

In light of this, would people want to see even slightly better odds for zombie creation? Alternately, other ideas;

 

- Increase chance of a successful kill / raise kill limit

- Greatly increase chance of zombies turning on the 31sts and Halloween (days zombies are visible all day)

- Add a BSA (Destroy, for Blacks?) with a higher chance of killing a dragon than the kill action

- Add a BSA (Curse/Bite for Zombies?) that gives zombies themselves a chance to create another zombie, independent of kill limit and with a higher success rate

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Please, any of this! I've also noted the pretty low success rates on the Zombie thread (haven't had a single non-Halloween success yet myself), and it's kinda depressing.

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Support. Have a lineage I'm working on and only have 10 attempts, it would suck for them all to fail. don't really see why zombies are so rare when most of the time you can't even see them, although they do have very nice sprites.

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Yeas, please... the chance is so riddiculusly low it's almost like a no chance:( and with that killing cooldown it's even worse for there are even less attempts.(I changed my mind, I'm against changing the kill limits/cooldown)

And I dread trying for the wyrm (CB Mageias:()

 

 

Is it just me or the 'run-out-time' dead hatchies count to the hatchling limits?sad.gif mine do...

 

 

 

and if only Zombies were visible all day... right now what's the point of the DC time players to even have them, since they hardly ever can see them?

Edited by VixenDra

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Although not everyone agrees with me, I believe the odds are nowhere near as the ones on Halloween. I checked this with multiple users who had success in Halloween and they seem to agree. My hypothesis is that the odds are supposed to be a once in a blue moon thing (possibly as rare as ND or more?) On regular days and we are still going to have increased odds on Halloween to keep it "special".

 

I completely understand why zombies can't be too easy to get and a lot of work has piled together since the updated sprites were all released at once so now we know we can have 8 different types which are immediately available. It will take a while to streamline things.

 

That being said, yes I do fully support this suggestion because if things become too much of a grind, the game starts to wear user out. From what the OP already explained, currently the zombie collecting activity is falling more into the grind category than fun category. And knowing the chances are so low, it takes away my ability to be creative because I don't want to breed, raise and kill 20x offspring from a pairing to get one successful zombie with specific lineage, that is if I get very lucky.

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Although not everyone agrees with me, I believe the odds are nowhere near as the ones on Halloween. I checked this with multiple users who had success in Halloween and they seem to agree. My hypothesis is that the odds are supposed to be a once in a blue moon thing (possibly as rare as ND or more?) On regular days and we are still going to have increased odds on Halloween to keep it "special".

Honestly, all I need is for TJ to confirm this. If there's a very high chance of zombies on halloween, and low any other time then it's fine by me. Something like 1/4 or 1/5 chances.

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Personally, I'm not affected by any changes to zombies as I don't collect them. (I got rid of the couple I made several years ago once the Soulpeaces came out.)

 

That being said, I think this is just the same kind of situation like with rare dragons. (You know, the old adage of rares being rare for a reason - whatever that reason may be...) Yes, killing 50 dragons will take you a while. However, DC has never been meant for instant gratification.

 

My view on this: Keep the old increased chance on Halloween to keep it special. Maybe - and that's a big maybe - add a dragon-killing BSA to give people a chance to turn more. If someone wants to deplete their scroll to achieve all zombie sprites ASAP, I don't mind at all. (Then again, might this be a thing where newer players are at too much of a disadvantage?)

 

Just... don't make it too easy if you change something.

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It's 24 different Zombie sprites to collect atm (I'll personally need 40 for the MF+MFs2+s1 sets), and more to come!(2-headed, DC drake, pygmy... and who knows if not the subtypes too for all of these???), really... they deserve a much higher success chance for the mere quantity of different sprites.

I tried 6 adults and 4 hatchies so far, trying 2 more hatchies tomorrow for they are now time-run-out dead but seriously I don't even hope in turing any with how unsuccessful it is (and not even mentioning I had to release the revived individuals not to try again on them by mistake +I don't want to keep more than 5 per breed/alt exept the 3 useful BSAs). It' not much yet but I haven't been hearing of more than very few successes so far in general...

 

And they can't be even traded, unlike NDs...

 

Another thing is they're mostly invisible... for me it's like the entire sacrifice of hundreds of CB dragons I'll have to kill on the way is not even rewarding...

I'd much more likely have 40+ decaying dragon sprites on my scroll over 40+ tombstones most of the time... (even if it's just me being able to see them(?))

couldn't they vanish just around midday for the brighest sunlit periods but be visible most of each day? At the very least to the owner, please... The sprites are so great I'd rather see them once I finally obtain even just a few of them... so it's at least worth all the efforts?

Edited by VixenDra

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I think the kill chances are fine, and increasing the chance won't really help the zombie making situation. Any serious zombie maker is going to have a large enough hoard of zombie fodder that if a dragon dodges the knife there's plenty more to kill. That's what happened with me, I was even able to kill only wyverns.

 

An increased number of kills and/or an increased chance of zombification would be lovely. An increased kill limit would be enough for me. More kills means more chances to revive, after all, and I'm sure TJ set the chances of making a zombie low for a reason.

 

 

Tango, if you only have a limited number of tries I'd suggest waiting for Halloween to do the zombie making. Chances are that the chances are going to be highest then, since that used to be the only time it was possible. The year-round with seemingly pretty low chances are most useful for making zombies for a nonspecific hoard where it doesn't matter which dragons succeed, not something with limited attempts like a lineage project. (related to kills and dodges, you can benefit by the fact that the kill dodge reaction resets after 24 hours and it doesn't have to be a fresh kill to zombify, so you can start killing a few days before you want to revive and be sure that you have five successful kills)

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I know for the last couple Halloweens I've only managed to get one adult zombie out of my ten dead dragons to try, so if the Halloween odds aren't improved they're still fairly dismal.

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I would love to see an increase in "KILL" action limit... I don't understand why it's only 5 and such a long period of CD ~

 

It will be so hard to gather all the sprites as more subcategories are to come any time soon sad.gif Not everybody makes fodders and with personal projects and such big releases every month there is no time for them anyway ~ :L

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YES, please one or more of these suggestions! I've never understood why the kill limit is so low with such a long cooldown. And really, Halloween chances aren't that great either. At the *very* least increase the chances on Halloween.

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We don't know that TJ hasn't increased the chances on Halloween until we get data for it. So much has changed about zombie making recently that it's logical that he might have bumped up the Halloween chances already.

Edited by Pokemonfan13

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We don't know that TJ hasn't increased the chances on Halloween until we get data for it. So much has changed about zombie making recently that it's logical that he might have bumped up the Halloween chances already.

Yes, but as usual, TJ isn't saying anything. He takes secrecy and mechanics way too seriously for a game. That's probably the thing I hate most about this game.. TJ and his damn secrecy.

 

That said, my option would be that if the chance of success is going to be so very low most of the time, then the kill limit should either be greatly increased or done away with. Since killing too many dragons no longer burns your scroll, the kill limit is pretty much useless anyway. Those who are willing to kill their dragons for zombie fodder are going to do it regardless.. and those who think killing pixels is an abomination, aren't going to use the kill function anyway. So why do we need a kill limit anymore anyway?????

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I love the idea of a curse BSA for zombies to give them a chance of reproducing their own kind without using a kill slot. That particularly piques my interest.

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I probably have about 20 fails now - the odds are appallingly bad. dry.gif

I have about 30 hatchling fails still still on my scroll with two zombie hatchlings to show for it.

 

One zombie adult too.

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Since killing too many dragons no longer burns your scroll, the kill limit is pretty much useless anyway. Those who are willing to kill their dragons for zombie fodder are going to do it regardless.. and those who think killing pixels is an abomination, aren't going to use the kill function anyway. So why do we need a kill limit anymore anyway?????

Killing dragons used to burn your scroll?! That is just absurd lol! xd.png

And yes I also think the KILL action should get increased or just make it become a BSA (Black dragons were suggested as I remember) so you can kill with them and just make a hoard and kill all you want and as many as you want ninja.gif

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I have about 30 hatchling fails still still on my scroll with two zombie hatchlings to show for it.

 

One zombie adult too.

That's still not great odds! I haven't pursued the hatchie route that hard because someone's been sending me hatchies for a trade so I haven't wanted to block up my spaces with loads of fogballs because it's not fair on them and I like to keep at least one Kill action available because I run forced ND exps, but I am really, REALLY glad that I haven't tried this "chance" of zomification on anything I couldn't easily replace. :s

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Although not everyone agrees with me, I believe the odds are nowhere near as the ones on Halloween. I checked this with multiple users who had success in Halloween and they seem to agree. My hypothesis is that the odds are supposed to be a once in a blue moon thing (possibly as rare as ND or more?) On regular days and we are still going to have increased odds on Halloween to keep it "special".

Based on my personal success rate, ND odds are 1/4-1/6 roughly. I haven't looked at the zombie data from the other thread, but if success rates are coming out lower than 1/6 that puts them rarer than NDs. Keep data size in mind too - after enough data is accumulated there will inevitably be someone going 5/5 and someone going 0/20. The data as a whole is what will matter.

 

There are what, 8 types of zombie, so if adp's saying 8/50 that puts success at 16% - exactly the same as a ND's 1/6. Seems reasonable. The only tweak I'd make is the kill slot count/cooldown, because I can run 7 ND exps a week but a zombie hunter can only have 5 (adult) chances every 2 weeks.

 

We also have to see how things go on Halloween. I suspect the success rate will be higher.

 

I have about 30 hatchling fails still still on my scroll with two zombie hatchlings to show for it.

 

One zombie adult too.

3/30, then, assuming the adult isn't an older one? 1/10 overall. Poor RNG, perhaps. (Poor RNG happens. And I can safely make that assertion, as someone who's gone 0/15 on Halloween-made zombies lifetime.)

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My stats on Halloween was 3/5 and my stats now since the update happened is 0/25. sleep.gif I have yet to hear anyone going even 2/5 so 5/5 on a regular day is practically impossible. (On that note if you have seen or heard of anyone get more than one adult in single sitting please let me know ! - if nothing else it will at least serve as encouragement.)

 

I do not particularly care about hatchlings, it is the adults I am worried about. Hatchlings are even bigger waste than adult in the sense they waste scroll spot and it doesn't even lead to anything. None of those I revived turned or even got fully revived. ND is at least worth the resources wasted since they can be traded, do not have so many types of sprites to collect and are visible 24*7. I am honestly so over this all year round zombie update, it proved all but useless for me and I have no time or space to waste on fodders with breeding, gifting and scroll goal activities so I have to kill perfectly good dragons for an action that bears no fruit. It is very frustrating.

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I don't really see any compelling arguments here as to why the chance should be increased.

 

There's already four tiers of success chance (day time, night time, 31st of month, Halloween), which match the four states of zombie visibility. Those seem sufficient while presenting enough challenge that you need to dedicate some effort to getting a ton of zombies.

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My stats on Halloween was 3/5 and my stats now since the update happened is 0/25. sleep.gif  I have yet to hear anyone going even 2/5 so 5/5 on a regular day is practically impossible. (On that note if you have seen or heard of anyone get more than one adult in single sitting please let me know ! - if nothing else it will at least serve as encouragement.)

With a big enough data size, it'll happen. My point there is mostly "outliers don't make a dataset, the data as a whole makes the dataset."

 

I do not particularly care about hatchlings, it is the adults I am worried about. Hatchlings are even bigger waste than adult in the sense they waste scroll spot and it doesn't even lead to anything. None of those I revived turned or even got fully revived. ND is at least worth the resources wasted since they can be traded, do not have so many types of sprites to collect and are visible 24*7. I am honestly so over this all year round zombie update, it proved all but useless for me and I have no time or space to waste on fodders with breeding, gifting and scroll goal activities so I have to kill perfectly good dragons for an action that bears no fruit. It is very frustrating.

Eh, most people seem to call it quits with a small zombie army but will collect as many NDs as they can, and to be quite honest NDs are as completely useless as zombies. At least zombies can be part of lineage bases. NDs either show up at the end of lineages or, more often, are CB only for trading purposes. I'd equate the two, mentally, for purposes of rarity and value and general purpose on scroll (coolness factor only).

 

I agree with you that 0/25 is very frustrating - I was certainly very annoyed at my 0/10 last year and 0/15 total - but I don't think that defines the zombie data by itself. There's also going to be some bias in the presented data because people who get a "reasonable" success rate, for whatever their definition of reasonable is, are likely to quietly wander off afterward, whereas people like you or me who go 0/15 or 0/25 or 0/35 will likely have things to say afterward.

 

I don't really see any compelling arguments here as to why the chance should be increased.

 

There's already four tiers of success chance (day time, night time, 31st of month, Halloween), which match the four states of zombie visibility. Those seem sufficient while presenting enough challenge that you need to dedicate some effort to getting a ton of zombies.

So... confirmation that Halloween success > normal success, and some extra information that the 31st > normal success too. This seems pretty good to me, especially paired with the argument that these are meant to be rare.

 

This just re-emphasizes my position that the odds are already fine. If anything, since it's 5 killslots per 2 weeks, that just encourages waiting with zombie attempts until the 31st. (Or do a miniature version of the Halloween killstrat, where you kill partway through the 17th and kill again as soon as your kills come back on the 31st, to double your total kills and total chances for zombies on the 31st.)

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So on every 31st of the month the success rates are higher? Had no idea about that~

*sigh* 2 months left for that 31st date in this year dry.gif

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