ANSWERED:Vampire Sprite Update

[Fiona]

Nature rarely has absolutely straight lines. If you look closely at this bat wing you'll see that even the straightest bone is not perfectly straight but curves slightly.

 

The long straight line at the top of the wing there doesn't really look right because long straight lines don't look natural to us. Plus it gives the impression that the dragon is squashed into a box with a ceiling a bit too low. Curving that line slightly will fix that impression. Basically, bring the ends of that line in a pixel or two and raise the center a pixel or two. You won't lose the joint in the wing and will soften that appearance of being squashed in a box.

 

The elbow strut where it connects to the elbow suffers from something of the same problem. Giving that very straight line a very slight curve also would make it look more natural.

[VixenDra]

I found at least 3 very straight bones in this bat ups...

 

Hm, when I tried to follow 'the steps' I got a disaster for a pixel there changes a lot and well... maybe I was doing it all wrong...

 

I tried this way and ended up saving it:

[link]

A no or a go?

Edited August 16, 2016 by VixenDra

[SkyWolf25]

Yes, the feet are much better!

I think pushing the middle of the straight line a pixel up would be better, like this: ___-------___

Or push it two pixels up like this ____------'''''''''''------_____

Or adjust the entire top part of the wing so that it has a gentle slope overall.

 

May I try editing the wing(emphasis on try ) or would you like to try these?

[VixenDra]

Ok, try:P

I'm just afraid it may end up connecting all the finger bones into 1 bent bone I'm so trying to avoid the elbow one started to be close to this already...

 

And I think I can improve the effect of what I tired by slightly altering the first bone:

[link]

(I think I'll stop re-adding the transparency for a while:P I work in Paint and it's getting time-wasting to fill each pixel of the BG green, save, open in Gimp, mark by colour, erase and, save )

Edited August 16, 2016 by VixenDra

[spatio]

@Dusky:  I'm having kind of a hard time seeing your edits, I'm sorry!  It would help if you could trace your new edits onto another piece of paper (or just turn the page over and trace it through itself).  Either way I've updated your sketches in the first post, if you'd like to PM me an easier to see sketch I'll keep it up to date for you.

Bumping this up for you, Dusky_Flareon. Didn't look like you saw it.

 

I think I've got the first post all updated, got your newest lines up there, VixenDra. And yeah, when I'm doing major line edits I just keep it on a filled background, makes moving it between programs much easier. (Bless Pixly for being so forgiving format-wise )

 

I removed your broken image, Yamashta. I'm guessing you're withdrawing your art? If not I need a new link and I'll make sure to stick it back up there. :3

[TheScorpionKing]

 

 

So, should vamps get an update? Should they not? Got a sprite to submit or crits? Discuss!

 

 

Current In-Cave Sprites (thank you Shokomon for grabbing these)

 

-----------------------------------

In Progress Sprites + Sketches:

(Linked for size)

S1 and S2 and Adult by Dusky_Flareon

 

by VixenDra

 

No, they should NOT get an update,

they don't need one.

Art, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

For 8 years vampire dragons have remained perfect,

and they should stay that way.

 

That new rendition makes the wing look like

a cross between an umbrella and a lampshade

at a house of ill repute,

it's just garish and undignified.

[olympe]

I wish I could comment on this, but I have absolutely no idea what the lamphades in a house of ill repute look. Never been in one, tbh.

[TheScorpionKing]

I wish I could comment on this, but I have absolutely no idea what the lamphades in a house of ill repute look. Never been in one, tbh.

They look just like that wing,

trust me on that one.

[olympe]

I'll have to trust your expertise on that, but I dare say that the wing looks neither garish nor undignified.

Edited August 16, 2016 by olympe

[Nerei]

No, they should NOT get an update,

they don't need one.

Art, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

For 8 years vampire dragons have remained perfect,

and they should stay that way.

 

That new rendition makes the wing look like

a cross between an umbrella and a lampshade

at a house of ill repute,

it's just garish and undignified.

Actually, they really DO need an update. Their current anatomy and shading is far from perfect.

[dragontamer44722]

Ok, try:P

I'm just afraid it may end up connecting all the finger bones into 1 bent bone I'm so trying to avoid the elbow one started to be close to this already...

 

And I think I can improve the effect of what I tired by slightly altering the first bone:

[link]

(I think I'll stop re-adding the transparency for a while:P I work in Paint and it's getting time-wasting to fill each pixel of the BG green, save, open in Gimp, mark by colour, erase and, save )

I feel like the curve is better but the lines are so...obvious, I guess is the word. Maybe its the color of them? To me they look thicker than the other lines, but I really just think its because of their current color.

[TheScorpionKing]

Actually, they really DO need an update. Their current anatomy and shading is far from perfect.

You don't have any Vampire Dragons on your scroll,

VixenDra only has 2 adults on hers,

 

I've got 235 adult Vampire Dragons on mine.

 

It doesn't make any difference to your scrolls

what the Vampire Dragon looks like,

but it makes a big difference to mine.

 

I'm invested in collecting the Vampire Dragons,

I don't want people who don't even collect them

ruining it for me and everybody else.

[Nerei]

You don't have any Vampire Dragons on your scroll,

VixenDra only has 2 adults on hers,

 

I've got 235 adult Vampire Dragons on mine.

 

It doesn't make any difference to your scrolls

what the Vampire Dragon looks like,

but it makes a big difference to mine.

 

I'm invested in collecting the Vampire Dragons,

I don't want people who don't even collect them

ruining it for me and everybody else.

I do have one vampire, and perhaps I would have more if they were up to par with the standards set by newer dragons in the cave. Nostalgia really isn't a good reason to say there shouldn't be updates, especially since TJ has proved he's very open to updates that improve sprites overall. A lot of people seem enthusiastic for improvements like this, so I doubt it would be "ruining it for you and everybody else." Anyway, it would be better to go to TJ about how you don't like sprite updates instead of here, because it's up to him whether these updates could ever even happen.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Niyaka

[olympe]

My vampire collection may be small, but that's partly due to the sprite having issues that grate on my. Especially the wings. I collected them despite their sprite because I really, really like the concept in all its uniqueness.

[VixenDra]

TheScorpionKing,

 

Well, if you could please provide a constructive critique and tell me how to fix the wing, instead of spitting pure hate, I'd gladly consider following it if applicable...

or I actually advice you to do the wings better yourself. If you manage, I'll gladly follow your redlines.

But well, if you can't see any of the plenty issues in the original in-cave Vampire sprite then I'm afraid you won't be able to help... but try if you think you can, you have my permission to play with what I've done.

 

And just because I collect only a family per breed/alt in the game (I wish Incubate, Influence and Fertility were regular actions instead of BSAs forcing me to hoard Reds, Pinks and Purples for the sake of playability... this BSA hoard ruins my scroll if you need to know. Gameplays differ, I dont' hoard anything and keep just the 5 per breed/alt sets and mass breed them to AP every week) is NOT a valid argument against me trying to contribute the best I can to the sprite update thread. Same with other artists working here but not having a hoard of Vampires. We don't have any less right to work on it than you have.

If Vampires were sprited better, I'd make much more of them to AP, right now I don't bother(there's a few more steps to biting than to breeding after all, Vampires need a separate approach)... I even keep forgetting about them..

 

And I'm upset with the Nhilia pygmy update... I hate the new sprites and prefer the old one, it was much neater. and so what? Guess what - nothing...

But I at least tried to advise the artist of the updated exactly how to fix them, it's their thing they ignored completely, their sprite after all. My part is done, even if it didn't bring any result. All that's left is to just go on.

 

 

 

 

dragontamer44722,

I hope the shading will solve this...^^; I won't move further than flats

Edited August 16, 2016 by VixenDra

[Rainstarkitty]

Reminder to attack the topic and not each other. If you do not like a sprite, please provide constructive criticism. If you do not agree with the topic/suggestion or another user, please state your opinion politely and explain why/why not.

[DuskOfTheStars]

VixenDra, may I try to shade it once the anatomical crits are done on the flat? I'd prefer to shade a female flt if you have one.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Dusky_Flareon

[Shokomon]

I object to the notion that the amount of sprites a player collects some how puts one player's words over another.

 

I feel like that if you aren't TJ or the artist of the sprites, you don't have any more say on what goes on with a sprite than any other player on Dragon Cave.

 

Just because someone's play style allows them to collect more of a sprite doesn't mean they should dictate the whether another player's opinions count.

 

You don't like the update. That's fine. You don't think updates are necessary. That's fine too.

 

What's not fine is that just because I only have 6 different vampire sprites because of how I collect sprites (1 of each gender and 1 for breeding or in this case biting), my opinion suddenly doesn't matter.

 

This suggestion may have a greater effect on people with more Vampire sprites, but they like everyone else can post here and say whether they want it or not.

 

What they can't do is say that those with less Vampires or none aren't allowed in the discussion.

 

And that's my two cents.

[VixenDra]

VixenDra, may I try to shade it once the anatomical crits are done on the flat? I'd prefer to shade a female flt if you have one.

Dusky_Flareon,

Since it's an update thread, versions are more than welcome;) When the flats are finished, I'll give a general permission 'anyone can shade it'^^ With my current dragon request thread I had a great example how 3 different artists shaded the same flats totally differently^^ in case of a revamp it's a good thing:)

 

Just for now, please wait till the flats are considered done, I'll recolor into a female when the male is done^^ And the wings are still not satysying here

Edited August 16, 2016 by VixenDra

[orphaned]

 

 

there are so many talented artists in here ... with brilliant ideas

 

however, when changes are made >>>> ALL the dragons, from years past, are changed .. wherein lies the problem

 

as much as we hate to admit it ... our dragons are computer code

 

there must be a way to alter the code so that updated dragons are available

 

BUT the pre-existing dragons can stay the same !!!

[VixenDra]

BUT the pre-existing dragons can stay the same !!!

thing is it's never a thing...(despite all the pleads re-appearing during announced sprite updates) There are even no retired sprites anymore, obviously TJ didn't like the previous state of things. Well, at least the players but he agreed with them enough to fix that.

And I was always against putting newer players in such disadvantage of denying them posibility to collect all the sprites.

Edited August 16, 2016 by VixenDra

[spatio]

Once again, please remember to stay on topic. This thread is not a discussion about updates in general, but this particular species. If you would like to argue for or against updates in general, which is a good debate topic in itself, please take it to another thread.

[blockEdragon]

Better?

I'm refusing to make the fronts anyhow larger in any way the enormous size of the in-cave sprite's hands has been always bothering me and look like a huge() mistake to me...

 

hm, I'm still pretty new to spriting... is having a straight line where the dragon is supposed to have a pretty straight line (because there's a bone) a mistake/a not-acceptable? Well, I attempted to 'break' it (as a few posts above) but then the wing was blending with the far wing to me, creating pretty much a one large curve well, and the joints weren't this obvious anymore, making an impression there is 1 bone that curved.. unless I'm wrong and it's just me

i like the look, strong looking and weakish looking at the same time, exactly how a vampire should look

 

i hope this update makes it into DC

[Fiona]

The problem I see with creating a topic to debate updates or no updates, Spatio, is that we've already had that conversation a few dozen times. It's hard to keep the thread civil.

 

Vixendra, would you be opposed to me showing you what I meant about the lines? I'll wait for dragontamer to try it, and then maybe poke at them. Your lines overall are so nice but those couple lines on the wings just bug me every time I see them.

[dragontamer44722]

I think you are thinking of Skywolf Fiona, I don't think I said I was gonna fix the lines. I wouldn't know how to fix them honestly >_>