Posted August 11, 2016 (edited) What has always been bothering me about the original sprite the most was the wings(as a whole), the large size of 'paws' and the straight neck with a relatively small head(well, just compare it to those large 'paws'). (I'm ignorign the shading for now) My attempt at keeping a lot from the original and adding me in: original size: (let's ignore the wings) Suggested sprite size for 'squeezing in' the wings: [link] I added the membrane 'wrinkles' just to make it easier to follow what is what but I probably failed. But really, positioning wings neatly is my weakest side... And the tongue (marked red) is there just as an example, I think I'd rather have the sprite without one:P And I'd really like 'zodiac's wing fingers and membranes to be used^^ probably best we can get! BTW It's a dragon after all, we're not slaves of the irl animals we know! Edited August 11, 2016 by VixenDra Share this post Link to post
Posted August 11, 2016 Those are absolutely fantastic! I love how elegant they look. I definitely think the stretched out version is better; as the Vampire sprite is now, the whole thing looks rather cramped. //runs to update first post To everyone who has submitted art so far, what are your plans for it? I.e. you are planning on making a whole set, you want someone else to sprite/tweak/sketch/etc, you are just submitting an idea for a particular anatomy fix you want to see someone else do, etc, so I can make sure to put permissions in the first post in case others are looking to collab. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 11, 2016 My attempt at keeping a lot from the original and adding me in: original size: (let's ignore the wings) Suggested sprite size for 'squeezing in' the wings: [link] These... are... perfect! Exactly what I hoped a vampire update would be. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 11, 2016 (edited) I think I'd like my sketch to be used with some possible minor improvements I believe you Spatio have the best potential to do:P like the wings and shading mostly(in which you'd define the rest of the anatomy)? if my sketch would have a fair chance to be used, I'd like to try to spriteline it or maybe also flat colour but I don't want to shade it as I don't feel like able to. I can shade moderately but really, not with the quality I'd like DC sprites to be... I'd just like to be able to tweak a few pixels at any stage^^ not sure about doing the hatchies, maybe if my 'fix' of the adult is chosen for further work? Then I quess I should somehow contribute to them too unless someone does the matching set before anyway:) And thank you 2 for complimenting my attempt*^^* I think that if I see a few more approves of my attempt, I'll simply start trying to outline it:P Edited August 11, 2016 by VixenDra Share this post Link to post
Posted August 11, 2016 @VixenDra: In my opinion the outlines are the hardest part, so if you'd like me to shade your lines I'd certainly love to! (I can't guarantee it'll go fast but I'll try haha) @Sock: Oh gosh no! It's just currently a jumbled mess on multiple layers as I move the wings and redo the back legs. (The shoulders are deciding to not cooperate ugh) I think I'll try and get the female at least sketched and lined before I stick them back up so it's kind of a coherent 'set'. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 12, 2016 Everyone has posted such lovely sketches/sprites, so much that I kinda don't wanna post my sprites. I kinda made them from scratch, looking at the original sprites as a base, and I kinda regret not sketching them out first now. They look a little too stocky to me now. - Might as well post it though, instead of letting them sit in my computer. --> - There are two tail types, because I liked the idea of the longer one, but wanted to keep the original tail too. - I tried to make them the same size as the original vampires, but they ended up being slightly bigger, and bulker. - The original wing position honestly looked strange to me, so I just have the wing fingers folded over, instead of at the strange bent angle. This is more of an idea than anything substantial. So, comments? Critiques? Complaints? -- Yoinked for reference: --> --> OR --> OR Share this post Link to post
Posted August 12, 2016 http://imgur.com/vjZt5bM - S1 + S2 http://imgur.com/8F3wSdw - Adult Redlines... but aince I sketched in pen, I used bold black to show them. Crits? Share this post Link to post
Posted August 12, 2016 Oh! I love them! They're very similar to the originals, but fix the bulk of the old sprites' problems. My only crits would be: - the elbow spine on the wing is gone - the horns on the adults are out of perspective If the head is facing away, the horns are in perspective. Elbow spines are ghastly. There wasn't one on the original sprite, there shouldn't be one now. Elbow spines do not appear in real life creatures and do not make any sense. I feel they would hinder flight/mobility being right on there. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 12, 2016 The legs look mostly good to me. The far front leg still has this broken-looking quality, though. The bone shoudln't just bend like this IMHO. The wings still look a bit awkward, but maybe it's a matter of perspective that will resolve itself during the process of shading. (What I mean is th is: The wing finger on the bottom would have to be the one at the edge of the wing membrane - the pinky finger, so to speak. So, the membrane shouldn't look like it connects from the body to that finger, but to one finger hidden behind the wing.) Plus, there's still some hangbutt going around. What I'm trying to get at is this: The only way the wing pose makes sense is if it is something like that of the neotropicals: It's quite fine if the wing fingers are just as obvious from above as they are from below, so the visible wing fingers on the vamp are not actually working against this. Also, there's no way to say for sure what the vampire's wing membrane looks like from above. Is it the color of the rest of the body, or is it the same red as from below? The old sprites could be interpreted either way. (pro body color: hatchling sprites, adult's propatagium - if it is a propatagium and not the far wing arm; pro "both red": that awkward fold in the adult's wing, where we get to see that piece of the top side that's as red as the rest of the membrane) The dragons could have a bit more of a chest - or a more noticeable belly. Plus, I'd ask you to reposition the tail tip slightly since its unique feature gets lost behind the legs now. Maybe just shorten the tail by a couple of pixels? The wrist looks okay to me. A bit awkward, but animals pose their wrists awkwardly plenty. Cats lay on their wrists and it looks terribly uncomfortable. If anything, the dragons have a pretty standard animal looking forearm, they just... also have more hand like paws, which is what im assuming is making it look weird to you. as for the tail, I was trying to keep it close to the original and within the size range, since there's a size limit. It's also not my original pose/art/etc, I just 'corrected' little bits on it. If it were on me I'd probably do something a bit more showy/aesthetically pleasing tbh. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) If the head is facing away, the horns are in perspective. Elbow spines are ghastly. There wasn't one on the original sprite, there shouldn't be one now. Elbow spines do not appear in real life creatures and do not make any sense. I feel they would hinder flight/mobility being right on there. That looks a lot like an elbow spine to me. Certainly the anatomical choices made in the original vampire sprite may be questionable, and elbow spines make little to no sense in real life, but if you're going to revamp a sprite you should concern yourself with both biological soundness AND conceptual integrity. Adding a propatagium to a sprite changes very little, but removing an elbow strut has a much greater impact on overall wing shape. Edited August 12, 2016 by Odeen Share this post Link to post
Posted August 12, 2016 And thank you 2 for complimenting my attempt*^^* I think that if I see a few more approves of my attempt, I'll simply start trying to outline it:P Just due praise. These sketches are lovely as well as anatomically accurate as well as very close to the original. What more could we ask for? Share this post Link to post
Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Updated first post with new sketches/sprites. @Shokomon: I think I like the longer tail better. Looks much more sinuous and draconic imo :3 I also like what you did with the horns, looks kind of devilish which I think really suits these guys haha Crits! The back legs look a little wonky; I think it's because the knee is too low. Bumping it up a few pixels so that the shin is a straight line will help. The head looks a little too big at the moment, I think thickening the neck (same problem I had on my sprite haha) and shrinking the head a bit will help the proportions and keep that elegance you've got going with the long tail and curved horns. Another tip that will help with the back legs, think of the thigh as a sort of rounded triangle, not an oval, like this 3 second graffiti I did on someone else's gorgeous anatomy drawing. @Dusky: I'm having kind of a hard time seeing your edits, I'm sorry! It would help if you could trace your new edits onto another piece of paper (or just turn the page over and trace it through itself). Either way I've updated your sketches in the first post, if you'd like to PM me an easier to see sketch I'll keep it up to date for you. @Yamashta: I agree the poses are kind of blah, so why don't you go for a overhaul, like I'm doing? With poses/etc that you'd prefer? We already have a few people taking the updated-anatomy-same-pose-and-proportions route, and your art is amazing. *u* edit: finally got my male sprite finished! whew! will upload when i have wifi~ Edited August 12, 2016 by dragonwinxzodiac Share this post Link to post
Posted August 13, 2016 Elbow spines are ghastly. There wasn't one on the original sprite, there shouldn't be one now. Elbow spines do not appear in real life creatures and do not make any sense. I feel they would hinder flight/mobility being right on there. Just want to drop my two cents in here, as far as I can tell a cartilaginous strut extending from the humerus is hardly farfetched. Depending on the dragon's scale (I see it being more viable on smaller dragons), more importantly it'd help take the place of where a bat's knee would otherwise provide support halfway across the plagiopatagium. I just define such a strut as a slender thickening in the wing most noticeable in front of light, as opposed to an entire coloured 'finger' like I see commonly portrayed. I also never draw it straight, I prefer to have it curved similarly to the fourth finger for neater folding. It and its presumably accompanying muscle would simple be the equivalent of a secondary flight feather and the extensor secondariorum of a bird. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Ok, I think I can't do more at this stage(not without crits), I hope that with shading some things will improve^^ e.g. the toes. [link] those dark red lines >in< the body are just some helping lines which should vanish with the shading:) For now I ignored the spikes the original male has in the middle of the feet - I don't think these should remain where they were in the original and I'd suggest moving it up to grow from the heels, change into a dev-claw or remove them? Anyway, I'm leaving it up to you or Spatio:) And a propatagium can be ofc added, I leave this up to you too:) I included the problematic 'elbow finger' for the original has one. It should be easy to make a female out of it by removing the male-exclusive details:) Edited August 13, 2016 by VixenDra Share this post Link to post
Posted August 13, 2016 Updated first post, added my WIPs and your newest sprite, VixenDra. @VixenDra: I think that the foot spike, or at least my interpretation of it, is a sort of long, curving dew claw. When I get finished with my set I can work on shading your set! Would you be interested in sketching a female pose version of yours? I think dimorphism could be optional, but could also add a lot since we're doing an update. If not it's no problem to recolor the male sprite. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 13, 2016 Awesome^^ Well, about the pose dimorphism, on one hand I really like full dimorphism but on the other, with the expansion project(s) the basic western Vampire set will be the standard all the other subtypes will be probably expected to follow, and that's introducing a huge bunch of sprites with a full dimporphism then;) Share this post Link to post
Posted August 14, 2016 Yea, let's do just 1 pose per stage. Less work for me reshading all the sprites. xP Share this post Link to post
Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) Ok, I think I can't do more at this stage(not without crits), I hope that with shading some things will improve^^ e.g. the toes. [link] those dark red lines >in< the body are just some helping lines which should vanish with the shading:) For now I ignored the spikes the original male has in the middle of the feet - I don't think these should remain where they were in the original and I'd suggest moving it up to grow from the heels, change into a dev-claw or remove them? Anyway, I'm leaving it up to you or Spatio:) And a propatagium can be ofc added, I leave this up to you too:) I included the problematic 'elbow finger' for the original has one. It should be easy to make a female out of it by removing the male-exclusive details:) Ooh, nice! I don't get the 'arched neck' feel as much as the original for some reason, though. Maybe pull the head back a pixel? +bigger front paws? Edited August 15, 2016 by SkyWolf25 Share this post Link to post
Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) Ok, I think I can't do more at this stage(not without crits), I hope that with shading some things will improve^^ e.g. the toes. [link] those dark red lines >in< the body are just some helping lines which should vanish with the shading:) For now I ignored the spikes the original male has in the middle of the feet - I don't think these should remain where they were in the original and I'd suggest moving it up to grow from the heels, change into a dev-claw or remove them? Anyway, I'm leaving it up to you or Spatio:) And a propatagium can be ofc added, I leave this up to you too:) I included the problematic 'elbow finger' for the original has one. It should be easy to make a female out of it by removing the male-exclusive details:) I like this sprite, it retains the essence of original sprite while fixing some of the obvious issues. I would be *A-OK* with this kind of update, but not something that visibly doesn't look almost the same as original or a major overhaul. Great work VixenDra! Edited August 15, 2016 by Amaterasu-sama Share this post Link to post
Posted August 15, 2016 The current vampires: eggs, hatchlings, adults, are perfect. Any change to them would be a big step down. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 15, 2016 The current vampires: eggs, hatchlings, adults, are perfect. Any change to them would be a big step down. Goodness. Someone agrees with me. I thought I was alone. I am so tired of all the "let's update this and that sprite". I like our vamps. I also like to keep some history here. Please leave them be. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 15, 2016 There are anatomical issues with these vamp sprites and there's nothing wrong with wanting to fix it. They're not perfection in anyway when it comes to shading and their anatomy. There's nothing wrong with fixing them like with what was done with the holly Share this post Link to post
Posted August 15, 2016 Goodness. Someone agrees with me. I thought I was alone. I am so tired of all the "let's update this and that sprite". I like our vamps. I also like to keep some history here. Please leave them be. You are NOT alone !! AGREED !! 100 %!! stop fixing what is not broken !! no more messing with perfection .. pleeeeeeeeeease !!! Share this post Link to post
Posted August 15, 2016 stop fixing what is not broken !! no more messing with perfection .. pleeeeeeeeeease !!! Well, the current vampire sprites do have issues. The wings, for one, which have an awful anatomy. (How is it that the wing finger of the near wing ends up behind the bone sticking out from the elbow?) Also the legs - the near front leg lacks a discernible wrist while the wrist on the far front leg looks broken somehow. Yet, it either has no elbow or the wrong upper arm : lower arm ratio when compared to the near front leg. At the same time, the near back leg appears to have two heels.Not to mention a couple of weird-looking straight lines here and there. The upper leg / knee is one big blob, too. The chest extends towards the hips, no abdomen anywhere. Not broken? Perfection, even? Share this post Link to post
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