ANSWERED:Vampire Sprite Update

[spatio]

Thanks for the crits on the current sprite, everyone! I'll keep working on it when I get the chance. ^u^ The color difference is because the app on my phone doesn't support .gif files, which is all I could find of the Vamp sprites, so I had to eyeball the colors instead of being able to use the eyedropper tool. When I get home and have a PC I can fix that.

 

Concerning the expansion, I'd love to work on it when I get the chance! Though I think my style is a little different from the current ones you've got going, but I'll see what I can do. :U (assuming I don't die/disappear back into hiatus-land when classes start back up again in a few days!)

[Nerei]

The sorites in the Vampire Dragon Expansion Project Dragon Request. Which are currently being made to match each other, but when they're done...

There's no guarantee that those will even actually be released, so I wouldn't advise anyone to base possible updates off of them.

 

Also for the sprite, I think it would help the neck a lot if it was thicker near the body, so it looks better supported c:

[blockEdragon]

OMG yes

this looks amazing

[Nine]

My critiques with the proposed "updated" sprite:

 

The legs and feet look tiny and dainty compared to the imposing claws the current vamps have. The colors are faded and muted looking, not as vibrant. The sprite itself just looks rather small, so details like the claws, spikes, teeth, designs, etc. look more fragile and thin in comparison. The swirly patterns on these new wings are hard to see and kind of blend in with the shading. The cool effect the original has, with the red stripes on the back/ribcage melding into the wings, doesn't seem to be present.

 

I like your spritework and I think you do some great scary looking beasties, but I'd love to see your effort and work put into new, fresh concepts to add to the cave. We definitely need more ferocious breeds.

 

While people could point out all the "faults" of the current vampires, I find them plenty suitable and fitting for the cave as they are. They may not have the ultra-realistic updated shading and body shapes that everything is coming out with these days, but I don't see that as a bad thing and I certainly don't think it's fair to put stigmas on such work. Hangbutt may be a common issue pointed out, but it's not a glaring fault on the Vampires that takes away from their overall theme and design, imo. Who knows, maybe they don't fly at all-- if you want to get down into realism, being undead and lacking living organs/blood flow would definitely prevent any sort of flying (or movement at all). No 6-limbed dragon in-cave could likely fly according to earth physics.

 

I see the issue of revamps as something comparable to CGI and animated movies in today's market. Pixar and other companies pride themselves in realistic details, textures, movements and such, but they still choose to model their designs after "cartoony" and non-realistic shapes, bodies, limb ratios, and so on. The dog from UP is a nice example: he's not modeled after pure realism and has exaggerated characteristics, but we still see and identify the character as a dog and maybe even love him more because he isn't plain normal looking. Ultra-realism and more accurate doesn't automatically equal better.

 

With the addition of more and more breeds into the cave, they will all no doubt possess the updated shading and appearance people equate to being 'better art'; I highly doubt there will ever be more dragons added that look like the vampires and older breeds. Why not let those that cherish their dragons' designs be, since they certainly won't be finding new breeds to replace them design-wise. Those who revel in updated shading and realism can look forward to the next releases that will have those characteristics. If revamps are going to be something other than an extreme rarity from now on, I can't blame people for feeling discouraged and dissatisfied with the direction DC is going.

[Shokomon]

Current Vampires for comparison:

--> --> OR --> OR

And for commenting purposes:

-->

 

You know, for the new sprite, I feel like the back legs are too long. Like the hips should be more level. Actually, I feel like the Vamps lost a lot of their stockiness. I know they are thin, malnourished, undead things, but a stocky undead thing should still look stocky. Now, its a little closer to a greyhound in build than before.

- I feel like the wing shoulder got lost though. I can't see it very well.

- It's a great looking sprite though.

 

--

I was wondering where the people who liked the vampires as is were. I was surprised there wasn't a response sooner.

 

Looks like there are valid viewpoints both for and against updating the Vamps (and sprites in general.)

[spatio]

I'd personally like to see some submissions that are not quite as "complete overhaul" as I went. (im getting antsy with my poor art up there all by its lonesome) A range of sprites from simple reshades to more complete reworks would give more selection, so people who don't want big changes might see a slightly updated sprite and find they do like it better.

 

It seems a lot of people are against updates all together, but I think posts like Nine's are really the most informative. Specifically, your opinion on Vampires in particular, not just updates as a whole, I think will really help everyone get a better feel for the community's preference overall. For example, I personally love the Albino sprites as-is, though some people would prefer them be updated. So, though I'd rather not have their sprite be changed, I'm not against updates in general.

 

@Shokomon: Thanks for getting that! I need to add that to the first post when I get my sprite set edited and re-uploaded.

[dragontamer44722]

So I may as well hop on the bandwagon. I think that an update on the Vampires is a nice idea, but if it ultimately doesn't happen its not gonna crush me. I think that a complete overhaul may not be needed, but maybe getting improved anatomy on what is here is a good idea.

 

 

[Paradisiske]

did we get permission for the spriter yet if we could reshade the vamps?

[spatio]

My message tracker says that neither of the PMs I sent to the spriters have been read yet, but as soon as I hear anything from either of them I will make sure to update the first post.

 

Speaking of that, if either of the artists is uncomfortable with the idea of a sprite update, I will delete this topic. Someone else may wish to go through with it, but I personally am not comfortable with overriding an original artist's wishes.

[TCA]

Hmm, y'know, I think the Vampires could use an update, but I'm not too keen on this particular sprite.

 

Maybe I'll make one ouo

[Process]

I'm pretty "don't care" on sprites anymore.

But I've noticed some of the newer updates the artists tried really hard to keep it true to the original.

Like The splits, bright pinks or even holly.

I dunno just the current thing in here seems more like a completely new thing than trying to update.

[spatio]

Hmm, y'know, I think the Vampires could use an update, but I'm not too keen on this particular sprite.

 

Maybe I'll make one ouo

Yay!

[DuskOfTheStars]

Just going to check before I do, but may I post up my sketches of a set? I think the eggs are fine, but the adults need at least a colour change to make their shading more contrasting, as do both S1 and S2. And of course, the stray pixel on the female needs removing. If we do new sprites, that could be a wee bit easier, but I do think we need to keep the feel of the originals - like keep the posing somewhat similar.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Dusky_Flareon

[SkyWolf25]

So I may as well hop on the bandwagon. I think that an update on the Vampires is a nice idea, but if it ultimately doesn't happen its not gonna crush me. I think that a complete overhaul may not be needed, but maybe getting improved anatomy on what is here is a good idea.

Yup this is me.

I think an update fixing anatomy/improving shading will be nice, but we should keep the general pose and 'feel' of the dragon as similar as possible.

[Shokomon]

I can try and make something... Though it would just be lines...

[olympe]

Yup this is me.

I think an update fixing anatomy/improving shading will be nice, but we should keep the general pose and 'feel' of the dragon as similar as possible.

Definitely this. And, as nice as the suggested new sprite is overall, it still has some issues. Being just too different certainly isn't the least of them, but not the only one, either. The whole chest/shoulder/wing shoulder/neck area is one big problem, and I feel like the sprite is just too skinny. It also seems a tad too shiny to me, but that might be personal preference. I like how the overall wing anatomy (sans wing shoulder) turned out, though, as it's a huge improvement over the original. However, the darker markings on the wing membrane get lost due to the new shading, which is a shame.

[silver_tiger]

I agree that the current Vampire sprite could use some... ok fine, revamping. But I hope that the replacement sprite that is decided upon will have a similar feel to the current one--especially the way the head is being held, with that proud arch to the neck. That's my favorite part of the vampires, and it looks like the last sprite I can see lost that, somewhat.

[VixenDra]

-->

What I really don't like how it changed on the revamped:

 

the head - the upper jaw got misshaped a lot, I bet it's because you tried to squeeze in the tongue and made room for it so it doesn't look squeezed in. I'd rather remove the tongue to save the head's shape or make it indeed squezzed in, the head is much more important than the presence of a tougue I belive. You should thicken than very narrow part that is between the forehead

the neck - it ued to be much better proportioned, now the base is way to narrow compared to the upper half, you should add more 'meat' to the back side of the neck base to fix that, as the belly side connects nicely to the chest and I don't think this should be changed

wing arm - really, it's way too short and the area where it connects to the ribcage looks swollen as it was once broken and healed poorly. I believe the distance from the neck base and the arm connection should be reduced by as much as a half.

the torso and hind legs - looks way too much like a (tweaked)horse to me, the torso looks so heavy and the thigh is soooo wide while the calf is so narrow, probably you should go more like a slim dog than a horse... now it looks very heavy, despite it's skinny(skinny is good I think for a vampire). And if you wanted to keep the feel of the original, I think a hyena would be not a bad reference

outlines - there is no outline... it shouldn't be black of course but it should be a bit more there I think, to make the sprite less dull kind of, idk how to explain it... you know, excess of realism isn't reccommended here:P

 

What I DO like on the new one:

wings - but only from elbow to fingertips, the arm is way too short! wing membrane - yay!

anatomy in the shading, the shading as such

front limbs - finally, I hated those large hands on the original... yours are much better.

and in genral it looks much better than the original, but idk if the pose and proportions should look THAT different^^;

 

 

as for the Vampire expansion thread, I believe it would be best if you handled the shading there, nobody can do it there even nearly as you would be able to^^;

Edited August 7, 2016 by VixenDra

[Obscure_Trash]

outlines - there is no outline... it shouldn't be black of course but it should be a bit more there I think, to make the sprite less dull kind of, idk how to explain it... you know, excess of realism isn't reccommended here:P

There is an outline. It just better matches the rest of the sprites in cave rather than being obvious like on the vamp. =p

[spatio]

//drowns in several pages of crits X_x

 

I am working on tweaking atm, I promise! But I won't have wifi so I can't re-upload for a few days (it's on my phone). Things I'm working on include the wing arm shoulder, neck, colors, and back legs (and markings since I oops'd them ). I'm not going to make it much more like the original though, because this is just my take on an overhaul and tbh I don't think my art would be used anyway I'm far from the best artist to do this :'D

Like I said, a range of sprites would be just fantastic. If you'd like to see one more like the original build of the vamps, make one! (I'm not being snarky here, I'd really love to see a large array of sprites!) Even submissions like sketches are great, since a lot of artists are either comfortable with sketching or comfortable with spriting, and like to collab with someone who can do the other, so to those who offered to sketch - please do!

 

edit: i cannot english apparently

Edited August 7, 2016 by dragonwinxzodiac

[DuskOfTheStars]

Okay, my sketches! I based them off the original sprites and tried to fix the anatomy.

 

S1 + S2

http://imgur.com/OpvXaKV

 

Adult

http://imgur.com/tzwdZ9G

 

I know they probably need foot redlining. Also, crits please. And do try to ignore stuff I scratched out. Yes, the S2 feet are messy...

 

So yeah, crits please?

Edited August 8, 2016 by Dusky_Flareon

[yamashta]

I did some anatomical corrections on the sprites.

 

 

given they're sketches they're kind of chunky/messy, but. The general gist is there.

[olympe]

The legs look mostly good to me. The far front leg still has this broken-looking quality, though. The bone shoudln't just bend like this IMHO.

 

The wings still look a bit awkward, but maybe it's a matter of perspective that will resolve itself during the process of shading. (What I mean is th is: The wing finger on the bottom would have to be the one at the edge of the wing membrane - the pinky finger, so to speak. So, the membrane shouldn't look like it connects from the body to that finger, but to one finger hidden behind the wing.) Plus, there's still some hangbutt going around.

What I'm trying to get at is this: The only way the wing pose makes sense is if it is something like that of the neotropicals:

It's quite fine if the wing fingers are just as obvious from above as they are from below, so the visible wing fingers on the vamp are not actually working against this. Also, there's no way to say for sure what the vampire's wing membrane looks like from above. Is it the color of the rest of the body, or is it the same red as from below? The old sprites could be interpreted either way. (pro body color: hatchling sprites, adult's propatagium - if it is a propatagium and not the far wing arm; pro "both red": that awkward fold in the adult's wing, where we get to see that piece of the top side that's as red as the rest of the membrane)

 

The dragons could have a bit more of a chest - or a more noticeable belly. Plus, I'd ask you to reposition the tail tip slightly since its unique feature gets lost behind the legs now. Maybe just shorten the tail by a couple of pixels?

[spatio]

I did some anatomical corrections on the sprites.

 

 

given they're sketches they're kind of chunky/messy, but. The general gist is there.

Oh! I love them! They're very similar to the originals, but fix the bulk of the old sprites' problems.

 

My only crits would be:

- the elbow spine on the wing is gone

- the horns on the adults are out of perspective

 

@Olympe: I think the part of the front leg you're referring to as broken on this and the old sprite is the wrist?

 

@Dusky: I've got crits for you! My phone is about to die though so I will edit this post shortly with them <3

Ok! So, crits!

The neck seems a bit too thick all the way up, try tapering it slightly towards the head. For references, try looking at long-necked birds like storks or ibises.

The humerus of the front legs seems to be too long. On most four-legged animals, the elbow is even with the chest, but even just shortening it a little would help. In fact, looking at pictures of lionesses is good for figuring out proportions for body/head/leg size. Finally, the wing fingers would look better with finger joints that bend downwards. This is a good reference, or you can just hold your fingers in the position you want the wing and use that as a ref! (That's what I do)

Edited August 11, 2016 by dragonwinxzodiac

[olympe]

It's probably supposed to be the wrist, but it still looks wrong. Like there's one noodly part of the arm, not like there's a joint.

See the difference? (Yes, the far front leg looks strange - it's the "thumb" claw sticking out, I suppose.