Update stripe breeding

[Obscure_Trash]

Actually, this discussion has come up before, and TJ himself pointed out that electrics are more blue than grey (ineed they are, even if they don't look the part) and thus belong in the blue stripe breeding group.

For interest's sake, here's the link: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=8594034

 

And electric dragons aren't black, and they're not really bright blue enough to be blue, so I left them at the default.

 

As is a post with some extra art: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=8606916

 

I don't think you can't continue to argue black stripeds for electrics, but I would keep the above in mind. ^^

[Obscure_Trash]

Considering that many stripe breeding results have been changed, I don't really see why not. I sure remember when black stripes were added, and there was hardly any drama at all. I also remember how some default-white-breedings got changed to a colored stripe result. (I still have one white stripe bred from a ribbon dancer to prove that it did happen.)

I agree wholeheartedly with this. It's what I was going to say. I do not mind if striped colors are added or replaced for breedings.

[Tango]

Removed electric from black list as seen by concept art and supported by TJ, they are indeed blue. Has anyone bred a stripe from a candelabra yet?

[olympe]

No. I only got a refusal and several candelabras.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I tried mine too... 1 was on breeding cooldown, 1 no interest, 2 candelabras.. so still no clue what color stripe they breed.

[Obscure_Trash]

Until we get confirmation, perhaps put candelabras as speculation, and keep an eye on the striped breeding thread. But please do not continue reporting results here unless you can conclusively say what color stripes that candelabras produce.

[Lesh4537]

The problem is, any changes to this system would mess up any in progress stripe lineages with the dragons in question.

That's not really a good reason not to change. Reintroducing the Frill and Old Pink (sorry, Aria) messed with some lineages too. But it also created new possibilities. I like the idea that a breeding could produce multiple variations. New possibilities and new challenges. ^-^

 

I'm open to the idea and will roll with it should it happen.

 

Additional thought: How about if Stripe breeding results were similar to Xeno? Say, a blue Stripe and a blue dragon producing an oddball color like red. Because Xeno, Nebula and Gemstones aren't annoying enough.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Lesh4537

[Ashywolf]

Electric dragons may not be quite blue or black, but they match those two colours much better than white. Just because white is default doesn't mean we should kick these other two colours under the rug in terms of electric dragon breeding -- that's just my opinion.

 

Plenty of dragons produce more than 1 stripe colour so I think it would be fine to implement blue and black here.

 

edit. as for deciding to "keep" white stripe being bred from electric dragons...I actually feel like maybe all dragons should have a chance to produce white. I'm thinking this from a genetic standpoint where recessive genes (in this case it seems white) occasionally show up in unusual cases.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Ashywolf

[TJ09]

There are certain dragons that produce white stripes even though they clearly suit another colour. Here's a list of some of them, note that this list can be changed and probably will. Hatchling are for comparison. Info taken from the DC wiki correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Dragons that DON'T breed blue stripe but COULD:

 

Bleeding Moon

Coastal Waverunner

Moonstone

Sapphire

Sunset( debatable, does look pretty purple)

Thunder

Yellow crowned

Soulpeace

Red finned tidal (Debatable, currently produce red)

Deep sea (Could breed black instead because of how dark it is)

Electric (Concept art shows it IS blue)

 

Dragons that DON'T breed red stripe but COULD:

 

Black tea (Could also breed black for the same reason golden wyverns breed black)

Candelabra (Supported by sprite artist! Were not sure what colour they do breed though)

Flamingo (Pink usually breeds red as seen by thalassa which produce red)

Sunset

 

Dragons that DON'T breed a black stripe but COULD:

 

Brute (Currently breed red)

Deep sea (Could do blue instead)

Falconiform Wyvern (Currently breed blue, this is odd)

Spotted Greenwing (Debatable, I'd say it looks pretty black)

Caligene

 

I'm unsure if grey dragons are also supposed to give black eggs, if this is true there are more I could add to the list. If it's not I have no idea why swallowtails produce black eggs.

 

Dragons that DON'T breed green stripe but COULD:

 

Gold horned tangar

Water walker

 

Honestly green is pretty solid.

 

Do you think stripes are worth updating? Got suggestions for dragons to be added or removed? (I'm unsure whether greys are supposed to breed black, or if pinks are supposed to breed red)

 

Also - just for fun, the second post will contain dragons that breed a stripe that doesn't make much sense.

My rationale for the existing behavior, where available:

 

Bleeding Moon, Sapphire, and Yellow-Crowned already produce blue stripes.

 

Sunsets/Thunders/Deep seas are more purple which, admittedly, doesn't fit well into the current striped spectrum.

Soulpeace/Red finned tidal are cyan/teal, which again don't fit well into the spectrum. Red-finned's primary/most visible color is the red, hence red stripes.

Electric's most visible color is the yellow, but there's no yellow. Their sprite isn't really "blue enough" for blue stripes.

 

All of the "possible red" options are far enough on the orange (or pink) spectrum that I don't know that they really fit well into red.

 

Falconiforms breed both black and blue. Way more likely to breed black than blue, though.

The others aren't really black/dark gray. Being dark-colored doesn't really equate to "black."

[Tango]

My rationale for the existing behavior, where available:

 

Bleeding Moon, Sapphire, and Yellow-Crowned already produce blue stripes.

 

Sunsets/Thunders/Deep seas are more purple which, admittedly, doesn't fit well into the current striped spectrum.

Soulpeace/Red finned tidal are cyan/teal, which again don't fit well into the spectrum. Red-finned's primary/most visible color is the red, hence red stripes.

Electric's most visible color is the yellow, but there's no yellow. Their sprite isn't really "blue enough" for blue stripes.

 

All of the "possible red" options are far enough on the orange (or pink) spectrum that I don't know that they really fit well into red.

 

Falconiforms breed both black and blue. Way more likely to breed black than blue, though.

The others aren't really black/dark gray. Being dark-colored doesn't really equate to "black."

Thanks for the direct answer TJ! Updated the list of dragons, my info was taken from the DC wiki so it wasn't up to date. I can see your reasoning behind a lot of these choices now. I'd like to keep this topic open though, as although there are reasons behind dragons that are too purple or too pink to not breed blue or red, I think it makes more sense for them to breed a colour than just white - especially since some of the dragons that DO produce a coloured stripe are not the colour of the stripe they produce (Like brown lunar heralds) (Unless these are false too, again I got these from the unofficial wiki)

 

 

 

 

Although I don't get why everyone keeps saying the thunders are purple, they match the blue stripes better than any other dragon?

Edited July 28, 2016 by Tango

[olympe]

No, bronze lunars indeed breed red stripes. I got one of those once from breeding.

 

TJ, what is your stance on adding stripe colors? Brown, (dark) Teal, Purple, (bright) Pink / Magenta and Orange are options. (Although both yellow and orange are a bit problematic, maybe put them in with brown and make the brown be of an orange/yellow shade?)

 

ETA: Re Thunders: Their bellies are almost the exact same blue shade as the blue stripes, but the rest of the body is definitely purple. Not indigo.

Edited July 28, 2016 by olympe

[Cinnamin Draconna]

IIRC, Vicats had several other colors available... any chance of adding them to the game?

[Infinis]

Re: caligenes maybe breeding black stripes

 

I looked at the list on the wiki and all the dragons that can breed black stripes have black (or dark grey) on them somewhere, even the seragammas, so the caligenes don't really fit for black stripes. Caligenes have no black coloration anywhere; they're brown with white and yellow markings.

 

Out of the current stripe colors, the one they already breed (white) makes at least some sense because it matches the marking colors on caligenes.

[Tango]

Most of the dragons on the list (Except for the greens which TJ didn't address) have been said to be not exactly black, blue or red, but shades of those colours not similar enough to the actual coloured stripes. (I'm adding this note to the front page)

 

The suggestion now, is to either add more colours of stripe dragons, or to extend the types of dragons that can breed coloured stripes.

 

For example:

 

Pink, orange and brown dragons breed red stripes

Purple and teal dragons breed blues

Very dark coloured dragons breed blacks.

 

However if any spriters object to their dragon producing anything other than whites I'll remove them from this list, do you want me to remove caligenes Infinis?

[olympe]

With a bit of searching, I found Vicat's post about her other colored stripes, which can be found here. Since some of them have stripes in colors other than yellow/orange, I'll only repost those that match the current set of stripes.

And then when we settled on the colour base/gold stripe I whipped up one for every major colour in the cave at the time. I tried to stay relatively close to the original colours in most cases (This was when purple was the only purple) except on Pink. XP

 

Of course, the purple might need some darkening to be more in accord with most purple-colored breeds. (Plus, it would look better because there'd be more contrast.)

Teal is still missing, though.

[Tango]

With a bit of searching, I found Vicat's post about her other colored stripes, which can be found here. Since some of them have stripes in colors other than yellow/orange, I'll only repost those that match the current set of stripes.

And then when we settled on the colour base/gold stripe I whipped up one for every major colour in the cave at the time. I tried to stay relatively close to the original colours in most cases (This was when purple was the only purple) except on Pink. XP

 

Of course, the purple might need some darkening to be more in accord with most purple-colored breeds. (Plus, it would look better because there'd be more contrast.)

Teal is still missing, though.

Thanks olympe! These would probably needs a little editing but they could be used if we want to introduce more stripes instead of making more colours breed the current stripes. That orange is so amazingly fluorescent.

 

What do others think? Do you think we should add more coloured stripes, or just make more colours of dragons breed coloured stripes?

[Paradisiske]

 

What do others think? Do you think we should add more coloured stripes, or just make more colours of dragons breed coloured stripes?

Why not both

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Either works for me.

 

Thanks for finding the post olympe.. my search skills are rotten.

[Infinis]

Most of the dragons on the list (Except for the greens which TJ didn't address) have been said to be not exactly black, blue or red, but shades of those colours not similar enough to the actual coloured stripes. (I'm adding this note to the front page)

 

The suggestion now, is to either add more colours of stripe dragons, or to extend the types of dragons that can breed coloured stripes.

 

For example:

 

Pink, orange and brown dragons breed red stripes

Purple and teal dragons breed blues

Very dark coloured dragons breed blacks.

 

However if any spriters object to their dragon producing anything other than whites I'll remove them from this list, do you want me to remove caligenes Infinis?

Ehhhh I don't agree that very dark dragons should be breeding black stripes by default. "Dark" does not automatically equate to "black", and it'd make more sense for such dragons to breed the appropriate color stripe (dark green is still green, after all).

 

As to your question: yes. If a brown stripe were to ever be implemented I would love for caligenes to breed that, but as it stands it doesn't make much sense to suggest they breed black stripes since no part of them is black or dark grey. c:

 

(It's not that I object to them producing something other than whites, because I don't. White is simply what's most appropriate at this time out of the available stripe colors.)

[TheScorpionKing]

That orange is so amazingly fluorescent.

 

What do others think? Do you think we should add more coloured stripes, or just make more colours of dragons breed coloured stripes?

Definitely add more color stripes,

especially that amazing orange.

 

[olympe]

I love both the orange and the brown stripe - even though brown is far from my favorite color, but the striping is just so vibrant on the dragon...

 

Since Vicats has a strict policy about not allowing any recolors of her art, we'd probably have to ask her to do the edits or ask her to give permission to an artist of her choice or whatever else works for her, because there are a number of other colors that look pretty good on stripes.

 

I experimented with already existing color pallettes on striped dragons, and found out the following:

pink/magenta: male aria (body color). Looks pretty stunning. The colors from the Almandine look too red on the striped dragon (more like burgundy), and the pallette of the Val '09 makes for a salmon-like color on the stripe. Arsani makes for a pink slightly skewed towards orange, but it's still noticeably pink. Depending on where you start with the (too big) sunrise pallette, you'll get either a nice pale pink or a less pale pink with a touch of purple in it.

purple: Horse dragon pallette, although it might need some lightening and more contrast, since it looks a little dark and flat on the striped dragonsw. Sunset looks good, too, but is too close to the blue stripe IMHO. Using the middle part of the sunsong pallette, you'll get a nice blend of pale pink and purple, which would be a good choice for both colors.

teal: The chrono pallette makes for a nice, shiny blue-ish teal on the striped dragon. Equally shiny, but more tinted towards green is the sapphire's pallette. Less shiny - and thus more in keeping with the other stripe colors - are the pallettes of the undine (greenish), greenwing spots/wing membranes (dark, greenish teal) or the mistletoe wings (slightly desaturated blue-ish teal). Mint doesn't work, as it is way too green. (Shifting the mint's pallette slightly towards blue gives you a vibrant shade of light teal, though.)

light blue: I only tried the waterhorse pallette - and found it perfect.

lime / light green: Gold-horned tangar colors make for a vibrant, lime-colored stripe. It might be a bit of an eye-burner for some people, though. The gaia's pallette might be a good alternative in this case. I'm not a fan of the mistletoe's pallette on stripes, as it looks too desaturated.

yellow: Probably the hardest color, since the stripes themselves are yellow-orange. I tried the gold dragon's pallette and shifted the stripes more towards orange, which looks pretty decent. Only the darkest shade might need adjusting to make the shadows less pronounced. Harvest, GW and gold shimmer didn't really work out for this. :/

[Tango]

Vicats hasn't posted on DC since 2012, we'll probably be relying on this

 

Please note this means: If an artist has not given permission for the type of edit you wish to make, you must contact an artist for permission before modifying their art for use on the DC forum. You must contact an artist before modifying their art for possible use in the cave (ie updating shading, adding alts, etc.). If they do not reply after 30 days, permission is granted by default. This applies to avatars, signatures, fanart, updating concepts, suggesting alts, etc.

Do note that especially if you are suggesting editing an in cave sprite (such as updating a sprite or suggesting an alt - even suggesting a hybrid), we are likely to ask for proof that you've asked permission. Be ready to give us a screenshot of a PM or chat or link us to a dA conversation or however you asked/received permission.

 

If we were to update the stripes, I'll send Vicats a PM and a message on deviantart and see if I get a reply. In the meantime I'm also going to update the frist post with more bronze, orange, pink and teal dragons if I can find any.

[DuskOfTheStars]

Her newest deviation is from April 27, so we'll have better luck trying dA, but I don't really know about that, given that it was submitted 3 months ago.

[Tango]

I'll try both. The first post is updated. Now our argument is: These dragons breed coloured stripes despite the fact they're not entirely red/black/blue, so why not these ones?

 

Anything you think I should change to make it clearer? Or what about the debateable points - should purples and yellow produces blues and reds respectively, they've not been shown as a colour that produces them unlike the others but they could fit into a colour better than just white.

[Pokemonfan13]

Personally, I wouldn't do a palette swap of an existing dragon onto a stripe to make the new color. Look at all the dragons that would breed that color and come up with a new palette that is representative of them. If nothing else, it solves the problem of having the palettes from other dragons be "too ___", whatever the problem with them is.

 

My personal taste is that orange is just too bright. It's just so saturated that it almost hurts my eyes to look at it and the yellow stripes almost blend in. I would like to see one with the orange toned down just a smidge.