Brexit

[NotBambi]

With the amount of money we give to the EU back in our pockets we wouldn't have to worry about University funding and we could make the NHS great again.

Do you read newspapers? Leave leaders already admitted that the EU money will not be used for NHS. And, as fuzzbucket said, UK was a net-gainer. All the money provided by EU to fund research in the UK will be zeroed. Leavers were supposed to know what they were voting for, guess they decided to believe some pathological liars without checking facts. Best of luck. You will need it.

Edited June 25, 2016 by NotBambi

[PewterEyes]

Now, how smart are Cornwall residents? Couldn't they check the consequences BEFORE voting?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/after-...ocid=spartanntp

"We will be insisting that Cornwall receives investment equal to that provided by the E.U. program"

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreallyyyyyyy? And do you think that "insisting" is going to solve anything? Silly, silly uneducated people, uninformed people, needing baby sitters, not even responsible for their own choices.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Now, how smart are Cornwall residents? Couldn't they check the consequences BEFORE voting?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/after-...ocid=spartanntp

"We will be insisting that Cornwall receives investment equal to that provided by the E.U. program"

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreallyyyyyyy? And do you think that "insisting" is going to solve anything? Silly, silly uneducated people, uninformed people, needing baby sitters, not even responsible for their own choices.

Uninformed only because the Leave campaigners LIED throughout.

 

"Leave" campaigners had previously reassured the county that it would not lose any subsidies if it left the E.U.

 

They did that kind of thing all over. And the media are so bloody irresponsible that they did nothing to correct such lies.

 

Now that the truth about the real consequences is coming out all over the country, MANY (MILLIONS) of people who voted to leave are regretting it bitterly.

 

And NOW the Brexiteers are admitting

they lied.

 

REALLY helpful campaigning, they did.

Edited June 26, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[NotBambi]

Uninformed only because the Leave campaigners LIED throughout.

 

 

 

They did that kind of thing all over. And the media are so bloody irresponsible that they did nothing to correct such lies.

 

Now that the truth about the real consequences is coming out all over the country, MANY (MILLIONS) of people who voted to leave are regretting it bitterly.

 

And NOW the Brexiteers are admitting

they lied.

 

REALLY helpful campaigning, they did.

Politicians tend to lie. It is in their nature to do so, like the Scorpion in the fable.

Frankly, I'm quite sorry for the people that will be affected by the consequences.

[The_Impossible_Girl]

Well, after the referendum the British pound dropped 12 cents (US) and made the front page of my morning newspaper, so my guess about the UK economy being impacted by the decision to leave the EU was correct.

Edited June 26, 2016 by w5aw5

[CatCreature]

Well, after the referendum the British pound dropped 12 cents (US) and made the front page of my morning newspaper, so my guess about the UK economy being impacted by the decision to leave the EU was correct.

And the media here inform us that it's cheaper now to travel to England and shop there. Or shop online if we don't want to/can't travel. So it might not be such a big fall if the export and turism get bigger.

[purpledragonclaw]

Politicians tend to lie. It is in their nature to do so, like the Scorpion in the fable.

Frankly, I'm quite sorry for the people that will be affected by the consequences.

This is so true. I can name maybe three politicians who don't lie, and that's probably because I haven't dug deep enough into them to fetter out some lies they've told.

 

Unfortunately, people worldwide will be feeling the consequences from this. World markets are intricately linked now, so when something happens in one, there's a ripple effect felt all over the world.

[NotBambi]

And the media here inform us that it's cheaper now to travel to England and shop there. Or shop online if we don't want to/can't travel. So it might not be such a big fall if the export and turism get bigger.

That would work until the free flow of goods and people is in place. Now, add the tariffs and quotas applied to non-EU markets: exports from Great Britain will not be convenient. Add the visa issues and tourism will get smaller, not bigger. Boris, the liar, was persuaded that he could have informal negotiations, the EU does not want negotiations until Article 50, with its deadline, is declared. I'm under the impression that the EU members want to make an example out of the UK, they seem all but willing to work with the Leavers. Why should them?

 

ETA: Let's be clear: the Britons had a lot of advantages by being in the EU, they get out, the advantages get out of the door too. This is a divorce and I expect it will be a messy one.

ETA again: Go take a look at what is happening to the pound in the Asian markets, right now. And another 10% fall against the dollar is expected in the short-medium term.

Edited June 27, 2016 by NotBambi

[Yukimura_Ai]

Just happens to be a topic I am interested in

Personally, I don't think the EU will last simply because nationalist views will always be there...

Although I think the reason and method of leaving was not well plan nor executed reasonably. There should be a plan between the EU nations to work better with the members and allowing more sovereignty. The British seemed to always been in discontent with the current EU rules, but British relatively gets their way more than the other nations. The reason for leaving is also the misinformation that "immigrants take all the jobs" and leaving will stop "unlimited immigration" even though immigration generally have a positive net effect on the economy... (net, not individual)

It all comes down to inflation, over population and ever growing gap of wealth - which is a more complex issue.

My point is, Britain did kind of voted out of "protest", the only lesson here is for others to not take voting as a joke, no matter how many conspiracies floating around, do some research before casting that ballots so your final words won't be "Omg, I did not know/was misinformed"...

[Fuzzbucket]

That would work until the free flow of goods and people is in place. Now, add the tariffs and quotas applied to non-EU markets: exports from Great Britain will not be convenient. Add the visa issues and tourism will get smaller, not bigger. Boris, the liar, was persuaded that he could have informal negotiations, the EU does not want negotiations until Article 50, with its deadline, is declared. I'm under the impression that the EU members want to make an example out of the UK, they seem all but willing to work with the Leavers. Why should them?

 

ETA: Let's be clear: the Britons had a lot of advantages by being in the EU, they get out, the advantages get out of the door too. This is a divorce and I expect it will be a messy one.

ETA again: Go take a look at what is happening to the pound in the Asian markets, right now. And another 10% fall against the dollar is expected in the short-medium term.

Actually, to be fair, they CAN'T negotiate till Article 50 is invoked. But I agree - if they make it too easy, other far-right nasties (as that IS what Johnson is) will try it too. Notably Le Pen and Austria.

 

And the SICKEST thing is the way, today, Poles are being stopped in the street and asked when they are going home (not to mention the hateful racist leafletting yesterday in Huntingdon ). It IS the racist side of all this that bothers me most.

[DragonNighthowler]

My boyfriend passed me this article and I thought, maybe, you guys would like to read it. It analyzes the Brexit vote by different collectives which is always interesting.

 

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-t...-voted-and-why/

 

Do you guys know what's going to happen to the large population of retired britons in Spain? I've read something about them loosing health care and stuff, but I really don't have much information about this issue.

[Amazon_warrior]

Actually, to be fair, they CAN'T negotiate till Article 50 is invoked. But I agree - if they make it too easy, other far-right nasties (as that IS what Johnson is) will try it too. Notably Le Pen and Austria.

 

And the SICKEST thing is the way, today, Poles are being stopped in the street and asked when they are going home (not to mention the hateful racist leafletting yesterday in Huntingdon ). It IS the racist side of all this that bothers me most.

The biggest tragedy for me (aside from all the "Bremorseful" voters) is the fact that some people seem to have seriously believed that they were voting for all "immigrants"* to be deported, effective as of Friday. The significant uptick in racist incidents and hatred since the vote is abhorrent. We have unlikely bedfellows in crushed, bitterly demoralised working-class people and ultra-conservative middle and upper-middle class retirees, both of whom have apparently voted to "get their country back", although their definitions of what that country looks like are rather incompatible, I fear! I'm furious because this referendum forced me to choose to side with Cameron, who himself has cheerfully encouraged euro suspicion and distrust of the foreign - until it suited him not to. When he added the referendum to the party manifesto in a bid to appease more right-wing members and secure his own slimy grip on power, he had no concept of just how despised and mistrusted he (and politicians in general) are at this point in Britain. That misjudgement has bitten everyone in the butt - and ironically it is likely to most hurt the people who were the most frustrated and desperate for change, any change, to relieve decades of marginalisation and the death-of-1000-cuts. It seems as though Remain never imagined that they could lose and Leave never dreamt they'd win, so Remain's campaign lacked any conviction (this is me being polite - they were worse than useless) and Leave (along with being the most hilarious, jingoistic liars in the history of everything) very obviously never had any plan whatsoever for what might happen after they kicked over the apple cart, with the whole mess being stirred gleefully by the media because sensationalism sells papers. And I'm distraught to hear people say things like "We fought in WWII so that you can have the right to cast this vote!" - Anyone recall the real reason we fought WWII again? Anyone? Because I have visited places like Auschwitz and it. Is. Chilling. But unfortunately my generation (30s and under, who least wanted a Leave result) are horribly politically unmotivated, so we also have ourselves to blame - if only ~36% of an age group turns out to vote, what can we expect? But we're going to be stuck with it the longest and have the task of cleaning it up. Joke's on us. And I haven't even mentioned the economic impact (mostly because others already have). *steps wearily off soap box*

 

 

*Basically anyone not white and/or with a non-English accent - regardless of whether they arrived yesterday or are an N-th generation British citizen. Does this sound horribly, terrifyingly familiar to anyone who knows even the slightest bit of recent European history?

 

 

Sock - I'm thinking many people have heard of Brexit now! I am so ashamed to be British right now, I can't even begin to express it.

 

 

Yukimura_Ai - You're absolutely right that it was a protest vote, oh how I wish it had been aimed at the people who truly deserved it. :/

 

 

DNH - I don't think anyone has any idea! Certainly not until proceedings are in motion and negotiations are underway. I do not expect Europe to give us an inch that they don't absolutely have to - and why should they?

[NotBambi]

Do you guys know what's going to happen to the large population of retired britons in Spain? I've read something about them loosing health care and stuff, but I really don't have much information about this issue.

I've no idea but... do you think that the EU will allow non-reciprocity? do you think that the Leavers will not make a fuss about reciprocity?

That piece of ..... of Boris Johnson wrote "British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down." Pity that he did not suggest, at all, that the EU citizens would have the same rights. He can forget that. Probably he is just pretending to not know that the EU will not accept that.

He can also forget access to the single market without contributing or without free movement. But he does not care. He can always put the blame on the EU.

Edited June 28, 2016 by NotBambi

[Kestra15]

It is hilarious watching Leave supporters now complaining about the immediate financial fall-out of the vote, and acting all shocked at how their campaign leaders have already backtracked on their "promises." Seriously, you didn't see it coming? Then what did you base your votes on?

[Fuzzbucket]

I've no idea but... do you think that the EU will allow non-reciprocity? do you think that the Leavers will not make a fuss about reciprocity?

That piece of ..... of Boris Johnson wrote "British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down." Pity that he did not suggest, at all, that the EU citizens would have the same rights. He can forget that. Probably he is just pretending to not know that the EU will not accept that.

He can also forget access to the single market without contributing or without free movement. But he does not care. He can always put the blame on the EU.

Exactly. They pushed - when ASKED - the idea that we could have a "deal like Norway without the immigration". The point of Norway's deal is that it DOES allow immigration. AND that it has to be within Schengen. I would be hugely amused if we had to sign up to that - and VERY pleased !

 

I'm ashamed to be British too, and the racism that has surfaced - the s (I will save the censorkipz the effort !) feel legitimised by it all is SICKENING.

 

Absolute KILLER - a woman with a broken ankle (I believe) was being xrayed by a Sikh radiographer - who has been here ages and couldn't be deported anyway) has the GALL to look him in the eye and say "When are you going back then - we voted you lot out."

 

It's happening all over.

 

I think Boris intended to win, have Cameron do all the sorting out and then take over as Lord of the Castle. (That will be why he took the weekend off to play cricket.) He had no plan at all and - as the BBC said the other day - looks as though he has been slapped in the face with a wet kipper.

 

I (and I speak as a committed LibDem, not a Tory !) have more respect for Cameron after he resigned - and carefully said he was not the person to lead the country "in this direction" (NOT forward as they usually say at these times) - and then he wept and said why should he be expected to sort out their s--t for them." I LIKED that I also think he was actually committed to Europe; he should have held his nerve and refused to have the referendum in the first place.

 

The Leader

 

 

I wanna be the leader

I wanna be the leader

Can I be the leader?

Can I? I can?

Promise? Promise?

Yippee I'm the leader

I'm the leader

 

OK what shall we do?

Roger McGough

[Amazon_warrior]

Almost immediately after winning, along with back-pedalling on all their lies, the Leave group pointed at the Remain camp and wailed "But THEY should have had a plan!" FML :| LibDem supporter here too (voted for them in the recent Welsh elections) and my county is both LibDem (one of the tiny number left!) *and* one of the few that voted to remain, so at least I have that small comfort.

 

fuzz - Dunno if you've read these, but I read an article by Nick Clegg that was... revealing about Cameron's commitment to Europe. Claimed that he was repeatedly pressurised to agree to a referendum (Clegg refused), and when challenged on the likelihood of winning, Cameron was breezily complacent. It's here if you (and others) haven't seen it, and his eerily accurate prediction of what Brexit would bring is here.

[NotBambi]

I admit that is childish but I laughed a lot today when I read that, after that Farage went to the European Parliament to hurl insults at everybody, Jean-Claude Juncker told him "I'm really surprised you are here. You are fighting for the exit. The British people voted in favor of he exit. Why are you here?" and Verhofstadt added "OK, let's be positive, we are getting rid of the biggest waste of EU budget: your salary."

Hey, Farage must be happy, at least he got some support: from another far-right , Marine Le Pen.

 

The whole situation is quite tragicomic. A couple of Britons that should know better (Simon Fraser and Christopher Meyer) were suggesting today that Brexit will lead EU to re-think free movement.

And today, the France's president said: Britain must be bonkers if it thinks it can have single market access without EU migration.

Edited June 29, 2016 by NotBambi

[StormBirdRising]

It is unrealistic to assume that all British voters, or even most British voters, that voted to Leave, are sorry that they voted that way. It is equally as unrealistic to assume that those who voted to Leave did so only because they were fooled by politicians and were ignorant of the facts or didn't know what they were voting for.

 

No one knows what will happen next, if other countries will leave the EU, if some countries will try to leave the UK, or if leaving will be good or bad for Britain, the UK, and the EU. What we do know is that the British people voted to Leave the EU. It wasn't some random decision made by some politico. No one held a gun to anyone's head, no one forced anyone else to vote the way they did, and everyone knew what they were voting for.

 

This happens every four years in the US. Part of the population says they will leave if candidate X wins, and another part of the population says they will leave if candidate Y wins. But no one ever leaves. Instead they make fun of and denigrate those who voted for the winning candidate, spinning tales of doom and gloom because their candidate didn't win, because the vote didn't go the way they wanted it to go.

 

Sometimes it seems that people who are in favor of free elections and free speech are in favor of them as long as everyone is voting the way they feel everyone should vote and everyone is saying only the things they feel should be said.

Edited June 29, 2016 by StormBirdRising

[Fuzzbucket]

Almost immediately after winning, along with back-pedalling on all their lies, the Leave group pointed at the Remain camp and wailed "But THEY should have had a plan!"  FML  :|  LibDem supporter here too (voted for them in the recent Welsh elections) and my county is both LibDem (one of the tiny number left!) *and* one of the few that voted to remain, so at least I have that small comfort.

 

fuzz - Dunno if you've read these, but I read an article by Nick Clegg that was... revealing about Cameron's commitment to Europe.  Claimed that he was repeatedly pressurised to agree to a referendum (Clegg refused), and when challenged on the likelihood of winning, Cameron was breezily complacent.  It's here if you (and others) haven't seen it, and his eerily accurate prediction of what Brexit would bring is here.

I saw the prediction one, but not the other (which seems to be behind a paywall...)

 

@ StormBirdRising - democracy is OK, though I'm not actually convinced that it works - but sure, the majority should carry the day, yes, even if it's not my side that wins - IF that's the way the vote goes. BUT - I am against referenda anyway - we the public DON'T know everything we need to know, nor are we ever likely to. We elect MPs who are supposed to reflect our wishes and act for the good of the country, and if they don't, we boot them out. THIS was far too important to be messed up as it has been. Yes, I voted remain - but that aside - I did so after a HUGE amount of reading up, and I identified shocking lies on both sides (mostly, it has to be said, from Farage and Johnson (the eurocoffin being the absolute though irrelevant classic.)

 

IF Brexit had won based on people actually knowing what they were voting for - sadly, I'd concede fair dos. But it didn't (Remain wouldn't have done either.)

 

Most people wouldn't have had the time to do all the reading I did (being retired helped a lot here) - and most people relied on the newspapers (mostly - in the UK - completely insane) and had no idea of what actually might happen. If you don't believe that - just look at what happened the day AFTER Brexit won - millions of google hits on what will Brexit mean for the UK.

 

http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2016/...ch-trends-tech/

 

They suddenly realised they actually had no idea. That is NOT OK whichever way they voted. Apparently (BBC news) many didn't even realise that voting leave was - a vote to leave the EU Several honestly thought it was a vote to cut immigration from all over the world. (and yes, I know that a lot of people who voted remain had no idea either so figured it was safer just to vote for the status quo until they DID know !) PIG's ear does not begin to describe...

 

May I invite all UK readers to sign this petition, in the hope that such a monumental cock-up will never happen again ?

 

https://www.change.org/p/restore-truthful-p...tical-campaigns

Edited July 2, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[Sinion Kabe]

People who believe the media (who were secretly all for Remain) need to take a rain-check and stop believing the media propaganda. People did know what they were voting for and it was to mainly stop countless amounts of EU citizens flooding into the UK at unlimited rates which is casing a strain on our public services. Also, due to the amounts of people flooding in, we cannot build housing that working class people can afford to rent/buy because we're not building homes quick enough to accommodate the mighty influx.

 

Another important point as to why we left is sovereignty. We did not appreciate being controlled by a bunch of extremely overpaid, unelected old bureaucrats who are anti-British to their fingertips. Who think they can rule over Europe in the hope to create a European superstate which would absolutely destroy individual European nations and mould them into one. United States of Europe by force? Quite frankly, not on my watch!

 

Everybody I know who voted Leave (and that is most of the people I spoke to) do not regret their decision to vote Leave and we never will, regardless of any hardships and change that we have to endure over the next few years. I am happy for the UK to be a multicultural society with people who want to come to Britain to integrate but we simply cannot afford to allow the borders to be open to 500+ million EU citizens for much longer. Now that we have thankfully voted to leave the EU, let us have a points system where we can control the numbers whilst also allowing other foreign nationals from outside the European borders (like from the US, Canada, Australia, the world) to come and have more of an opportunity to settle in the UK too. Because at the moment, with the uncontrollable floods of EU people coming to Britain, we have no choice to block out more people from outside of the EU which simply isn't fair on them either, many of which are skilled workers and could contribute widely to Britain.

 

People need to accept that the people have spoken, the referendum is done, and change is going to come. All for the better in the long term future. Let us hope that other current EU members will also hold referendums to give their people the choice that Britain had. Let democracy prevail and ask the people to decide, not the EU dictators!

[PewterEyes]

Compared with the informed approach of fuzzbucket and amazon_warrior, your approach is quite amusing.

I do not doubt that the majority of the leavers voted with the goal of stopping free movement, I do not have a lot of doubts about the xenophobic ideology behind a big percentage of those, demonstrated by the hatred shown right after the vote.

I'm slightly curious about the leap: how does the amount of people "flooding in" causes inability to build housing for the working class people?

By the way, I'm all for stopping Brit expats taking advantage of the French health system or favorable treatment in Tuscany, Algarve, Provence etc. I'm perfectly ok trading them with the health professionals now in the UK.

Now let's deal with the real world. Theresa May is the favorite with the support of more than 100 MPs behind her. Gove has around 20, his treachery does not seem to be paying. The other candidates have similar support. Guess what, Theresa May was a Remainer. The fact that she has that support already says something. Furthermore, May and Gove already told the world that they do not want to invoke Article 50 before the end of the year. The other 27 EU members want that declared as soon as possible, why shouldn't UK want to? Legally, the EU doesn't need to open any post-brexit deal negotiations with the UK until the UK is out of the EU. That does not mean until the UK invoke Article 50, that means until the UK is out and that could happen in 2 years. And in case you did not notice, until the UK is not out, the free movement stays, and UK must comply with all EU regulations.

The EU wants to make an example out of the UK so no others will be as silly as Cameron. Not only, EU members would profit of the UK being out. France can't wait to take away the City business. British Big Business does not want to lose the advantages of "passporting", who do you think controls the Tories? Big Business or a bunch of xenophobic individuals?

Let's make a deal: let's "meet" again on this thread in three years and see how things evolved.

 

Edit: by the way, it is extremely funny that UK would dare to babble about sovereignty. Do you think that someone forgot that UK invaded, colonized, ruined, starved and oppressed millions of people all over the world?

Edited July 3, 2016 by PewterEyes

[Sinion Kabe]

Compared with the informed approach of fuzzbucket and amazon_warrior, your approach is quite amusing.

Bearing in mind that I actually lived in Britain for over 30 years, it is interesting to know that you deem me to be somehow less informed. I am also quite disappointed to learn that my opinions make you chuckle. That was part of the problem we had in the European Parliament....not being taken seriously. You would make a great EU bureaucrat.

 

I do not doubt that the majority of the leavers voted with the goal of stopping free movement, I do not have a lot of doubts about the xenophobic ideology behind a big percentage of those, demonstrated by the hatred shown right after the vote.

So, you switched on the propaganda box and saw a tiny handful of xenophobic incidences. But are you seriously trying to suggest that a "big percentage" of the 17,410,742 UK citizens who voted Leave voted that way because they are xenophobic? That is a terrible and outlandish accusation. Please show us evidence of this.

 

I'm slightly curious about the leap: how does the amount of people "flooding in" causes inability to build housing for the working class people?

Have you bothered to check the house prices lately and weighed up how many people are flooding in, compared to how many houses we are building in order to try and house those people? We simply aren't building them fast enough. I used to walk into my local GP and get an appointment on the same day. These days, I have to wait up to two weeks to see my own doctors which means that I have to resort to going to hospital for relatively minor health issues. This is a direct result of too many people rushing into the country at the same time. Our services simply cannot cope. British people who have lived here from birth have witnessed the changes and we won't allow things to continue in this way. As I stated already in my first post, we are all for multiculturalism and we've had that in Britain for several decades but the unlimited free-movement of people has to come to an end so that services can be better balanced. It is simple logic really. You cannot shove too much into one small box and not expect any overflow.

 

Now let's deal with the real world. Theresa May is the favorite with the support of more than 100 MPs behind her. Gove has around 20, his treachery does not seem to be paying. The other candidates have similar support. Guess what, Theresa May was a Remainer. The fact that she has that support already says something. Furthermore, May and Gove already told the world that they do not want to invoke Article 50 before the end of the year.  The other 27 EU members want that declared as soon as possible, why shouldn't UK want to? Legally, the EU doesn't need to open any post-brexit deal negotiations with the UK until the UK is out of the EU. That does not mean until the UK invoke Article 50, that means until the UK is out and that could happen in 2 years. And in case you did not notice, until the UK is not out, the free movement stays, and UK must comply with all EU regulations.

I don't know what point you are trying to make. Yes, we won't leave officially until we invoke the article. We knew that already? The British government are obviously going to elect their post-Brexit leader before we make any rash decisions. Even when we have a new leader in place, we may want to wait a bit longer to strongly consider our options in various areas. I would rather us comply with the EU regulations for a couple of years, as opposed to becoming a life-long member with an endless influx of people coming in forevermore.

 

The EU wants to make an example out of the UK so no others will be as silly as Cameron. Not only, EU members would profit of the UK being out. France can't wait to take away the City business. British Big Business does not want to lose the advantages of "passporting", who do you think controls the Tories? Big Business or a bunch of xenophobic individuals?

Let's make a deal: let's "meet" again on this thread in three years and see how things evolved.

Think about what you just said. The EU "want to make an example of the UK". So, you think it is ok for the EU to effectively hold the British over a barrel and punish the entire country because the citizens of the UK took part in a fair and democratic vote? Who would want to be a part of an organisation who punishes its members for removing themselves from a failing Union? Very said to see you taking that same stance. Very shocking and undemocratic views. I hope that the UK isn't the only member to leave. I hope they all leave one-by-one and the EU dictatorship crumbles. What is it there for in the first place? It was set up after WW2 mainly as a peace process. The EU has reached it sale-by-date.

 

Edit: by the way, it is extremely funny that UK would dare to babble about sovereignty. Do you think that someone forgot that UK invaded, colonized, ruined, starved and oppressed millions of people all over the world?

Well, well, well....when you stoop that low and mention the British empire which is buired in history then you have clearly already lost the argument. You absolutely ruined your debate credibility there. That is the sort of thing that a reckless EU President would say. Very disappointing indeed. Smh.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Sinion Kabe

[PewterEyes]

To live somewhere for 30 or 50 years doesn't make someone informed. As said before, fuzzbucket and amazon_warrior have an informed approach. Others... well there's a reason why some were not taken seriously.

You still didn't provide any logical link between building houses for the working classes and the people flooding in. It is also slightly funny that you reference getting an appointment with your GP while the NHS heavily relies on so many EU nationals.

My point is that there are extremely good chances that the next leader will be a Remainer and that's because she is supported by an overwhelming number of MPs. Now, add two and two. The only options that the EU wants to consider is how the UK gets out. The EU does not want to negotiate trade deals until the UK is out. Not tomorrow, not after Article 50 is invoked. ONLY when the UK is already out. Again: UK invokes Article 50, UK and EU negotiate how the UK gets out, UK gets out, at that point UK and EU negotiate the trade deal. Look at the agreement with Canada, seven years discussing, so far? That means uncertainty for the financial and business world, the same world that controls the UK and the EU. You think they will be doing nothing to protect their interests?

Yes, the EU "want to make an example of the UK". Not because the EU wants to hold the UK over a barrel but because, unlike what the leaver campaigners were saying, the UK can't have the cake and eat it too.

The British empire is not buried in history, not any more than Hitler's Germany was. The Bengali famine happened in 1943, caused directly by the politics dictated by Churchill, the same Churchill that said "I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion." The same Churchill that said "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes...would spread a lively terror." while talking about the Kurds. Buried in history? You wish.

[_Sin_]

fuzz - Dunno if you've read these, but I read an article by Nick Clegg that was... revealing about Cameron's commitment to Europe. Claimed that he was repeatedly pressurised to agree to a referendum (Clegg refused), and when challenged on the likelihood of winning, Cameron was breezily complacent. It's here if you (and others) haven't seen it, and his eerily accurate prediction of what Brexit would bring is here.

Thank you for the link to Clegg's predictions. Unfortunately they seem to be quite accurate. So far the Conservatives are dealing with their leadership battle, Nicola Sturgeon wants a new independence referendum (also because it is her only option, the EU can't negotiate with her) credit rating was slashed etc.

Not only Farage, Gove and Johnson can't agree on anything: Gove already kicked Johnson out of the game, saying that Boris was not the right leader. Pity that others do not think that Gove is the right one either.

The saddest part of all this is that became evident that those three gentlemen had no plan whatsoever for the future, not even for the immediate future.

Clegg is also so right about the consequences of the Australian points system. Not sure if someone studied those before advocating for that system.

Frankly, I do not think that the 17 millions of people that voted to leave care about the 1.3 million Brits leaving elsewhere in the EU. I guess the British pensioners will need to pay for the public services they use in Spain, France etc.

I'm an EU national and frankly, I can't care as much as Pewtereyes seems to. The UK citizens decided and they are the ones that will need to live with the consequences of their decision. Maybe, instead of meeting in three years, we should meet in ten. The full consequences, positive or negative, should be visible then.

[Dragoniclove123]

People who believe the media (who were secretly all for Remain) need to take a rain-check and stop believing the media propaganda. People did know what they were voting for and it was to mainly stop countless amounts of EU citizens flooding into the UK at unlimited rates which is casing a strain on our public services. Also, due to the amounts of people flooding in, we cannot build housing that working class people can afford to rent/buy because we're not building homes quick enough to accommodate the mighty influx.

 

Another important point as to why we left is sovereignty. We did not appreciate being controlled by a bunch of extremely overpaid, unelected old bureaucrats who are anti-British to their fingertips. Who think they can rule over Europe in the hope to create a European superstate which would absolutely destroy individual European nations and mould them into one. United States of Europe by force? Quite frankly, not on my watch!

 

Everybody I know who voted Leave (and that is most of the people I spoke to) do not regret their decision to vote Leave and we never will, regardless of any hardships and change that we have to endure over the next few years. I am happy for the UK to be a multicultural society with people who want to come to Britain to integrate but we simply cannot afford to allow the borders to be open to 500+ million EU citizens for much longer. Now that we have thankfully voted to leave the EU, let us have a points system where we can control the numbers whilst also allowing other foreign nationals from outside the European borders (like from the US, Canada, Australia, the world) to come and have more of an opportunity to settle in the UK too. Because at the moment, with the uncontrollable floods of EU people coming to Britain, we have no choice to block out more people from outside of the EU which simply isn't fair on them either, many of which are skilled workers and could contribute widely to Britain.

 

People need to accept that the people have spoken, the referendum is done, and change is going to come. All for the better in the long term future. Let us hope that other current EU members will also hold referendums to give their people the choice that Britain had. Let democracy prevail and ask the people to decide, not the EU dictators!

I didn't really care about Brexit, but that was because I wasn't from Britain. I did think Britain could do what they want. Your response is very sensible.