Request for a Biome change

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Once again we have 4 eggs with the same description.. This egg has strange markings on it. While I am TOTALLY THRILLED to have Frilled dragons back, I'm not so happy about 2 eggs (Frills & Horses) with the same description sharing the same Biome. Before the return of the Frills, the 3 eggs with the same description were each in a different biome. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the 'strange markings' dragons in 4 different biomes?

 

Pink dragons and Flamingo wyverns also share the same description.. "It's bright. And pink." However, Pinks are found in all biomes, while Flamingos are only in the Coast and Jungle. So one knows, if they want a Pink dragon guaranteed, don't hunt the Coast or Jungle. Stripes and Spitfires share the same egg description, but Spitfires are Desert only and Stripes are found in the Forest and Jungle, so you can't mix them up.

 

Shouldn't we have options that allow guarantees for the 4 'strange markings' dragons too? We did while the Frills were retired, but now they're back.. and shouldn't we avoid anything that makes Frills undesirable.. again???

 

Horse dragons have equine-shaped bodies and hooves instead of claws, which allow them to be fast runners. They specialize in running takeoffs, which are quicker than taking off from a stand-still. Horse dragons are able to stalk their prey from the ground then quickly execute an aerial attack for the kill.

Frilled Dragons are smaller than most other breeds, but when threatened, they stretch out their wings and frills to appear larger. They generally do not like to fight and prefer hiding to confrontation. Frilled dragons live in small groups and often band together to scare off potential threats. Males also use their frills as a way to attract mates, with those displaying the "best" frills being more likely to breed.

 

Neither description mentions a habitat, so their placement should be easy to change. Personally, that bit about hiding in the Frills description makes me think that they do belong in the Jungle. The Horse dragon description tho indicates that they need space for running and flying, and Jungles are close, cluttered and overgrown which would hinder both running and flying.

 

Sooooo, I think the Horse dragons should be moved to a more appropriate biome.. and since we don't have a Plains biome, I think the Desert would be the best choice available. The Desert biome drops 36 dragons.. but only 15 of them are Desert specific. Making the Desert more of a catchall type biome than the others. Which is why I think the Desert would be a good choice to move the Horse dragon to.

[Kith]

Since this situation already exists with Sunstones and Moonstones, I don't really mind Horses and Frills sharing a description and a biome. However, I also wouldn't mind if there was a description or biome change, either.

[Imzadi]

Actually I have never thought horses should be in the jungle. Jungles are considered impenetrable, with dense ground cover. A hoofed animal would run the risk of getting caught in the undergrowth. A forest would be possible, or desert, but jungle is not a good choice.

Edited May 28, 2016 by ainisarie

[Pokemonfan13]

Lytharian said in the news thread that frills only work in the jungle or forest biomes, and forest also has a strange marking egg. That means that if anything is moved, it should be the horse.

 

I don't think we should be moving dragons just because of a description overlap, though. Yes, it's annoying, but if it was intended to not happen, eggs that share descriptions wouldn't have been released that way to begin with.

[TCA]

I heard somewhere that the jungle was originally intended to be jungle and grasslands, which is why dragonhorses are there. I'd like to see a new grassland biome and have horses moved there.

[Lythiaren]

I heard somewhere that the jungle was originally intended to be jungle and grasslands, which is why dragonhorses are there. I'd like to see a new grassland biome and have horses moved there.

Me too. I've always wondered why we have two tree-based biomes and none that have verdant, wide open spaces, though the distinction between a jungle and a forest is still a significant one.

 

There are really only two places frills can go, and I'm in the process of penning lore for why they're not in the forest. If there are a lot of concerns about them sharing descriptions with the dragonhorse, my vote goes toward moving horses to more hoof-friendly territory.

 

I would've been in favor of an egg description change on the frills, but I'm less keen on the idea of making everyone relearn their description twice. So since they're already relaunched, I'd really rather not.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Lythiaren

[Fiona]

Horses originally came from the steppe areas of eastern Europe and northern Asia. So it would make sense if we do get a grasslands biome to put them there. Neither our jungle nor forest biomes immediately say "I include a big wide treeless grassland" when you think about them so Horse Dragons don't seem to fit there well.

 

I don't believe the steppes are arid, but to me desert would fit better than jungle or forest considering how prevalent wild horses are in the American southwest, which is arid.

[Imzadi]

Horses originally came from the steppe areas of eastern Europe and northern Asia. So it would make sense if we do get a grasslands biome to put them there. Neither our jungle nor forest biomes immediately say "I include a big wide treeless grassland" when you think about them so Horse Dragons don't seem to fit there well.

 

I don't believe the steppes are arid, but to me desert would fit better than jungle or forest considering how prevalent wild horses are in the American southwest, which is arid.

Steppes can be fairly dry, but essentially they are grasslands or shrublands with most trees being close to streams and lakes. shortgrass prairie is a steppe although it isn't usually called that.

 

The best known example of a desert horse...the lovely Arabian. Horses to the desert!

 

Typos everywhere

Edited May 29, 2016 by ainisarie

[Pokemonfan13]

Uh, based on the maps I'm finding, he didn't get far enough north to reach actual tundra. xP (here and here) Even if he did reach tundra, that doesn't make tundra the ideal place for horses...

 

If we get more biomes it should definitely include grasslands of some sort, and that's where we should put the horse dragons. But with the current biomes, desert makes as much sense as any, if it can be stipulated that it includes arid grasslands.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[NotBambi]

Uh, based on the maps I'm finding, he didn't get far enough north to reach actual tundra. xP (here and here)  Even if he did reach tundra, that doesn't make tundra the ideal place for horses...

 

If we get more biomes it should definitely include grasslands of some sort, and that's where we should put the horse dragons.  But with the current biomes, desert makes as much sense as any, if it can be stipulated that it includes arid grasslands.

Sorry but there's no way a desert can be a grassland. By definition. There are only two types of grasslands: temperate or tropical (aka savannas), there is no arid grassland, would be a contradiction in terms.

Edited May 29, 2016 by NotBambi

[Pokemonfan13]

http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/grasslands.htm

 

Grassland biomes are large, rolling terrains of grasses, flowers and herbs. Latitude, soil and local climates for the most part determine what kinds of plants grow in a particular grassland. A grassland is a region where the average annual precipitation is great enough to support grasses, and in some areas a few trees. The precipitation is so eratic that drought and fire prevent large forests from growing.

 

There are two different types of grasslands; tall-grass, which are humid and very wet, and short-grass, which are dry, with hotter summers and colder winters than the tall-grass prairie.

 

Not all grasslands are wet. They aren't a full blown desert, but it wouldn't be hard to extend the desert biome to include the still arid but not actually desert form of grasslands. If we aren't getting more biomes, which is the better option.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[NotBambi]

http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/grasslands.htm

 

 

 

Not all grasslands are wet.  They aren't a full blown desert, but it wouldn't be hard to extend the desert biome to include the still arid but not actually desert form of grasslands.

It is not that grasslands are not a full-blown desert. They aren't deserts. Period. The concept of grassland is that there is grass, at least during part of the year. Unless there is some strange concept of DC-originated desert that just ignores science. Try using academic sources. Like http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/exhibits/biomes/index.php.

 

ETA: since someone justified putting the horses in the desert because there are Arabian Horses... horses do not survive without pastures, wild horses included.

Edited May 29, 2016 by NotBambi

[Lythiaren]

I'm not sure why there's so much debate about actual horses in a discussion about horse dragons. They're explicitly carnivorous, so the need for grass to consume is not important for the dragon. Though they do require open space to perform their signature running takeoff, and an environment that allows them to effectively stalk their prey while grounded, while also having enough room for them to perform the aforementioned takeoff and quickly transition into a surprise attack.

 

Horse dragons have equine-shaped bodies and hooves instead of claws, which allow them to be fast runners. They specialize in running takeoffs, which are quicker than taking off from a stand-still. Horse dragons are able to stalk their prey from the ground then quickly execute an aerial attack for the kill.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Lythiaren

[Pokemonfan13]

So, what of the existing biomes that do not have strange markings eggs do they better fit in?

 

Also, if National Geographic isn't academic enough for you, google isn't giving me better.

 

http://nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/steppe/

Steppes are semi-arid, meaning they receive 25 to 50 centimeters (10-20 inches) of rain each year. This is enough rain to support short grasses, but not enough for tall grasses or trees to grow. Many kinds of grasses grow on steppes, but few grow taller than half a meter (20 inches).

 

http://nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/desert/

Most experts agree that a desert is an area of land that receives no more than 25 centimeters (10 inches) of precipitation a year.

So the desert amount of rain (less than 10 inches) leads nicely into the steppe amount of rain (10 to 25). This means that it isn't insane to widen the definition of the desert biome to include steppe.

 

Grassland of some sort makes the most sense for horse dragons, given their running takeoff. Where else can we put that without adding more biomes? (more biomes is the best option, but this suggestion should have an option that doesn't include adding biomes)

Edited May 29, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[Imzadi]

The Arabian developed in a desert climate and was prized by the nomadic Bedouin people, often being brought inside the family tent for shelter and protection from theft

 

Also, you are aware that The Aarbian Peninsula, especially the center part, is dotted with oases, contains wadis and aquifers, has some mountainous areas that are not so dry. Coffee, dates, coconuts, some grains are grown in different areas. Goats, camels,sheep, and yes, horses. Actually it also contains semi arid steppelands

 

Arid grasslands very often do border deserts, as in the Sahel.

 

All the more reason to move horses to the desert until/unless we (hopefully) get grasslands biome.

[NotBambi]

I'm not sure why there's so much debate about actual horses in a discussion about horse dragons. They're explicitly carnivorous, so the need for grass to consume is not important for the dragon. Though they do require open space to perform their signature running takeoff, and an environment that allows them to effectively stalk their prey while grounded, while also having enough room for them to perform the aforementioned takeoff and quickly transition into a surprise attack.

 

Bold mine. How do they manage to do that in a jungle??? Where is the open space in a jungle????

 

ETA: I'm appalled at the idea that anybody could think that a desert is a grassland. Whatever. I need to learn to accept that there are people that think that there is no climate change, that believe that evolution is a lie and that the world is only few thousands old. Whatever. I give up.

Edited May 29, 2016 by NotBambi

[Lythiaren]

Bold mine. How do they manage to do that in a jungle??? Where is the open space in a jungle????

I never said I agreed with their current location, so your guess is as good as mine.

 

I'm also confused as to why you seem to be so upset at me. What'd I do?

Edited May 29, 2016 by Lythiaren

[RainDear]

ETA: since someone justified putting the horses in the desert because there are Arabian Horses... horses do not survive without pastures, wild horses included.

Tell that to the mustangs that live in Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, etc. There are no pastures in the areas they live. There is some grass and other plants that support them, but no pastures.

 

As was mentioned, whatever horses need to live is irrelevant to a discussion of the biome necessities for a horse DRAGON which isn't going to eat grass or other plants as a major part of its diet anyway.

[NotBambi]

Tell that to the mustangs that live in Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, etc. There are no pastures in the areas they live. There is some grass and other plants that support them, but no pastures.

 

As was mentioned, whatever horses need to live is irrelevant to a discussion of the biome necessities for a horse DRAGON which isn't going to eat grass or other plants as a major part of its diet anyway.

Mustangs live in the grassland areas. And there are less than 25k in the wild.

[yosofine]

Please remember we are talking about trying a Biome for a dragon. Even jungles have open spaces where trees and vines die due to lightning strikes and local fires. Again, this is to improve the dragon being in the correct location, not pitting people in a deep argument. This thread is for discussion, not anger over a dragon's possible change of address.

[silver_tiger]

As we do not currently have a Grasslands (or similar) biome option, I would love to see the Horse dragons moved to the Desert biome. It works better with the description of 'prefer warm areas with lots of space to run', though the 'heavy underbrush or tall grass is used to hide eggs' doesn't quite fit it... still, I like the idea of moving them. It has always seemed weird they were in the Jungle anyway.

 

I don't understand the debate about pasture. While Horse dragons like to run around grasslands, they're meat eaters.

Edited May 29, 2016 by silver_chan

[_Sin_]

What is the main goal here? To avoid having two eggs with the same description in the same biome? I'm not persuaded that's reason enough to relocate one of them. To find the right biome for one of them? I'm under the impression that the Jungle is the right biome for the Frilled and I don't think that any of the other biomes is a better fit for the Horse. I would leave things as they are.

[Lythiaren]

What is the main goal here? To avoid having two eggs with the same description in the same biome? I'm not persuaded that's reason enough to relocate one of them. To find the right biome for one of them? I'm under the impression that the Jungle is the right biome for the Frilled and I don't think that any of the other biomes is a better fit for the Horse. I would leave things as they are.

As far as I can tell, the suggestion is an attempt to prevent history from repeating itself. One of the reasons people were frustrated with frills back in the day was because of the shared description with the ochredrake and skywing, which both had better art and people didn't mind keeping, and the then-brand-new horse. The current situation is different from back then, of course, but I can understand the sentiment.

 

There were already strange marking eggs in both possible places where we could have put frills, and they wound up in the jungle. According to descriptions, horse dragons prefer a running takeoff for flight and kill prey via surprise aerial attack. Jungles aren't great for doing that (except in some areas where the undergrowth is thin enough, maybe), so there's a disconnect here that people are trying to figure out. They also tend to have a lot of undergrowth (especially in/near clearings, smaller plants crowd there because there's direct sunlight) which hinders running, whereas the description states they're built for running. Built like horses, which are best suited for running in wide open spaces. How does a creature built for running in wide open spaces evolve in a region that is not wide open? Were they displaced?

 

Lack of a grassland or plains biome isn't a very good excuse to keep the horse in an unsuitable environment, imo. They could migrate to a place that suits their needs a bit better, at least.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Lythiaren

[silver_tiger]

Quite frankly it has never made sense that the Horse dragons were in the Jungle, it just didn't matter before now. Now that there are two dragons with the same description in one biome, it seems to me that that issue should be addressed.

[_Sin_]

As far as I can tell, the suggestion is an attempt to prevent history from repeating itself. One of the reasons people were frustrated with frills back in the day was because of the shared description with the ochredrake and skywing, which both had better art and people didn't mind keeping, and the then-brand-new horse. The current situation is different from back then, of course, but I can understand the sentiment.

 

There were already strange marking eggs in both possible places where we could have put frills, and they wound up in the jungle. According to descriptions, horse dragons prefer a running takeoff for flight and kill prey via surprise aerial attack. Jungles aren't great for doing that (except in some areas where the undergrowth is thin enough, maybe), so there's a disconnect here that people are trying to figure out. They also tend to have a lot of undergrowth (especially in/near clearings, smaller plants crowd there because there's direct sunlight) which hinders running, whereas the description states they're built for running. Built like horses, which are best suited for running in wide open spaces. How does a creature built for running in wide open spaces evolve in a region that is not wide open? Were they displaced?

 

Lack of a grassland or plains biome isn't a very good excuse to keep the horse in an unsuitable environment, imo. They could migrate to a place that suits their needs a bit better, at least.

I appreciate the sweet irony of all this, considering what happened in the past. But... I do not think there is any chance that history will repeat itself. Even if we keep using the word "cave-blockers", nothing blocks the cave, the 5 minutes shuffles take care of that. Frilled are extremely popular, have been demanded back for long time and people must have learned some lessons.

I agree that the Jungle is not the right place for the Horse Dragons, I just wonder why that did not come up until the Frilled were re-released. But, none of the other biomes is the right environment either, so I do not see any advantage on relocating the Horses.