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SullenCat

Release several new "real" rares

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Ladies and gentlemen,

Please consider how many breeds existed in Dragon Cave when Golds and Silvers were released in 2007. Now consider how many breeds exist today. The disproportion is overwhelming and creates a lot of issues.

What I'm proposing is not new but I cannot find a specific suggestion. If there is, please let me know and I will backpedal and go post on that suggestion.

The release of only one or two new "real" rares, at Silver or Metal level, is not enough and could introduce additional drama. see what happened with the Coppers and they were not at that level. What we need is the release of a very significant number of new rares, enough to balance the numbers, so the usual fast catchers would not be able to get them all and dominate the market.

Please do not tell me "oh the multiscrollers", if someone will cheat tomorrow is probably cheating already today.

The introduction of new rares would also induce more interest on hunting and breeding: nowadays many of us just resigned ourselves to never be able to get a low gen metal in our scrolls, unless a friendly benefactor provides.

There are several other issues that this suggestion could mitigate but, for now, I would like to see your suggestions/ideas on possible new rares. Easter? Western? Gems? And so on...

 

Editing to add Kovia's metaphor:

 

If Golds are lemons and Silvers are apples, currently there are like 3 of those sitting in a semi truck mixed in with hundreds or even thousands of different types of vegetables. Toss in 5 more fruits and it'll become slightly easier to find a fruit rather than a vegetable.
Edited by SullenCat

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I see what you're saying about the newer rares not being on the level of rarity of silvers and golds, but I'm not entirely sure that's due to ratios. There is a bit of a user factor when it comes to how much people like the breeds, which cannot be controlled as much.

 

I have some statements to make but I'll save them for a later post, as I have some questions about your suggestion.

 

You're basing your suggestion on the assumption that the ratio of rare breeds to normal breeds originally on the site when it started is a thing TJ desired to keep, rather than make rarer breeds rarer. Why do you think the number of rare breeds to number of normals matter? And why do you think the way they are today is a problem compared to how they use to be?

 

 

In general, I do support this. We have very few legit rares, and I feel like that does limit the market somewhat.

Edited by mo7

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Support

 

A diverse market is a strong market. More rares will open up trades that previously only wanted neglecteds, 2G prizes, CB golds or silvers.

Edited by meowxmeow

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I'd love to see some new real RARE breeds, and not breeds that the trade market has made rare.

 

One stipulation tho.. if it's going to be a RARE, it needs to have AWESOME artwork. Not just good, but really great artwork. This kind that makes you go WOW! whenever you see one.

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I'd love to see some new real RARE breeds, and not breeds that the trade market has made rare.

 

One stipulation tho.. if it's going to be a RARE, it needs to have AWESOME artwork. Not just good, but really great artwork. This kind that makes you go WOW! whenever you see one.

Agreed. I know of several scripters spriters that would make us go WOW! And some!

 

Edit: This is what happens when we talk more about scripters than spriters. My apologies.

Edited by _Sin_

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Agreed. I know of several scripters that would make us go WOW! And some!

Did you mean spriters here?

 

~

 

I personally don't care for rares because I like dragons I can actually catch/breed, but I do agree that it's been quite long enough another few rares wouldn't hurt.

 

I think everyone got stuck in this pattern that rares have to be metals/shinies due to golds/silvers, but I don't think that's true. What is true, however, is that people need to be willing to suggest rare dragons for them to be released. I haven't seen very many, if any, rare dragons suggested in DR (which is good because we don't want only rare dragons suggested, but bad for getting any rares released) and most people like to have a say in their rarity. Another option would be if people are willing for the dragon to be rare, they can list that as an option, even if they don't have a preference.

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Did you mean spriters here?

 

~

 

I personally don't care for rares because I like dragons I can actually catch/breed, but I do agree that it's been quite long enough another few rares wouldn't hurt.

 

I think everyone got stuck in this pattern that rares have to be metals/shinies due to golds/silvers, but I don't think that's true. What is true, however, is that people need to be willing to suggest rare dragons for them to be released. I haven't seen very many, if any, rare dragons suggested in DR (which is good because we don't want only rare dragons suggested, but bad for getting any rares released) and most people like to have a say in their rarity. Another option would be if people are willing for the dragon to be rare, they can list that as an option, even if they don't have a preference.

They're probably on a phone and it autocorrected to scripters, as c is close to s and most of the other letters in the top line of a qwerty keyboard. Also since spriter isn't in a phone dictionary usually.

 

In any case, the point of people needing to suggest them is a good one. As someone who goes through the dragon requests and sometimes sprites, things that make it unlikely for a dragon to get into the cave generally make requesters steer away from them. Rarity is one thing that, as a rule of thumb, keeps dragons out of the cave or at least makes them harder to get in. Most of the suggestions I see are uncommon, because most people want their suggestion to be rare, but aren't willing to market it as such for fear of it never getting in the cave if they do. On top of that, if it's going to be rare it generally needs to look like it fits the bill, and that is another challenge altogether.

 

Also, about the rare = metal stereotype, I personally keep hoping for a rare that isn't metallic or jewel-like.

Edited by mo7

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Did you mean spriters here?

 

~

 

I personally don't care for rares because I like dragons I can actually catch/breed, but I do agree that it's been quite long enough another few rares wouldn't hurt.

 

I think everyone got stuck in this pattern that rares have to be metals/shinies due to golds/silvers, but I don't think that's true. What is true, however, is that people need to be willing to suggest rare dragons for them to be released. I haven't seen very many, if any, rare dragons suggested in DR (which is good because we don't want only rare dragons suggested, but bad for getting any rares released) and most people like to have a say in their rarity. Another option would be if people are willing for the dragon to be rare, they can list that as an option, even if they don't have a preference.

Yes. /blushing

~

Personally I would like to see some balance: Eastern rares, Western rares, maybe even a very rare pygmy. I like the idea of Jade, not the Gemshard jade, and Ivory. I would be happy to list some dragons from the Completed list, they have serious potential as rares. /heads to topic

Edited by _Sin_

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Also, about the rare = metal stereotype, I personally keep hoping for a rare that isn't metallic or jewel-like.

This! I'd like a rare that is not a metal.

I support this suggestion. We have some really nice dragons on the completed list that could fill this order.

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I agree, the site does need more rares, especially ones that aren't metallic or jewel themed. I think it would be nice to see the Grace, and Lepidoptera dragons from the completed list be rare since the sprites are gorgeous and have enough wow factor to qualify. It would also be nice to see some more enchanted dragons in the cave, like the Wildfire and Whitewater dragons on the completed list.

-Edited to include links.

Edited by w5aw5

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I would totally support more real rares in the cave, especially if they aren't just Metal. I would welcome a new challenge; I don't care about CBs and I already have lineaged Silvers and Golds. I would love to have to put in some work to get a new rare.

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Support! I'm not as familiar as many of you with the Completed list but there are some spectacular sprites there that deserve stardom. Maybe references and links could be added to the original post, maybe even a reference counter. Non metallic and non jewel rares sound interesting, maybe we could have "traditional" and "non traditional", whatever works.

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Given that we don't even -have- any jewel based rares, why are people against getting some? I'm perfectly fine with rares that aren't metal or jewel based, but I'm confused as to why we shouldn't get some rares that are "diamond" or "ruby"...

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No support.

In fact, I'm 100% against this idea.

Every time that a new dragon is released at certain point the drop slow down and someone raise the question "is this going to be a rare dragon" and the reaction is the most negative possible. People freak out. The community hates rare dragons. Rare dragons are good only as trade fodder and I'm also 100% against the idea to feed the greed and unfairness that I see in the market.

Actually, I would like to see all dragons transformed in commons and uncommons, including golds, silvers and shimmers. This is a collection site, everybody should be able to have CBs of all dragons available.

Edited by danicast

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Given that we don't even -have- any jewel based rares, why are people against getting some?  I'm perfectly fine with rares that aren't metal or jewel based, but I'm confused as to why we shouldn't get some rares that are "diamond" or "ruby"...

While they aren't true rares (at least I don't think intentionally by coding), I do kind of count spessartines and almandines. Which are jewel-based I thought?

Edited by mo7

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Given that we don't even -have- any jewel based rares, why are people against getting some?  I'm perfectly fine with rares that aren't metal or jewel based, but I'm confused as to why we shouldn't get some rares that are "diamond" or "ruby"...

Agreed, I think we need both. Diamond and Ruby sound magnificent, are you thinking of specific dragons in the Completed list? It is true that there's no reason why some of the new rares wouldn't be never-seen-before sprites but I would like to see some of the best in the list finally released.

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I'm not opposed to non-metal and non-jewel based rares, but here's a thing. I don't know the actual rarity of Blusangs but I rather think they were intended to be rare. Yet they're not viewed that way. Why not? If they are indeed rare why are they not sought as rares on a par with silvers and golds? One could use the same argument for the non-breedable rares, really. If they are indeed rare why are they not sought on the same level as golds and silvers? Why are coppers so highly sought after when they are not rare?

 

Whatever their actual ratio is, one reason could be that they don't have the cachet of a concept that is perceived as rare by what it's based on. Think about it. When you think of gold or silver you think rare and precious, you think expensive. What picture does the term blusang bring to mind?

 

... just the dragon. In the same way, grace and lepidoptera don't bring rare and precious to mind, on their own. Because to some degree rarity is user driven I think the bare name of the dragon must say "rare and precious" alone for them to take a place as highly sought rares.

 

I'm not saying the sprites suggested aren't worthy. All I'm saying is that for a true rare I think you need one that shouts "I'm a rare!" not just by beautiful sprites but also by the bare name.

 

Let's take the Mithrils. When you think of mithril (by whatever spelling is chosen, since there are multiple out there) don't you think "That should be a very rare and precious thing" because of the lore associated with the name? Of course, the current sprites don't live up that that. They totally need redone anyway. I just haven't gotten around to it. But that's an example of a concept that carries the perception of rarity just by the name alone.

 

Diamond would be another example. Most precious gems and metals would. That's something though that I think should enter into the thought process when one considers requesting new rares.

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I'm glad that Blusangs are not rares because I collect them since I first joined the site. I have several CBs, they are easy to catch. But I think they look like jewels, I've been naming mine after gems.

 

See? We don't need more real rares, just more beautiful dragons.

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You're basing your suggestion on the assumption that the ratio of rare breeds to normal breeds originally on the site when it started is a thing TJ desired to keep, rather than make rarer breeds rarer. Why do you think the number of rare breeds to number of normals matter? And why do you think the way they are today is a problem compared to how they use to be?

I admit that I do not know, let's figure understand, how the ratios work today and even less how they did at the time the site started. I know even less TJ's intent then and now. Based on pure numbers and probability of appearance, if all things were equal, there would be quite a lower chance of seeing a Gold today in the cave than there was at the time. Forgive me, you thought that quite better than I did, I'll "chew" on the concept and answer later.

 

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I wasn't thinking of specific dragons. But we do have some amazing spriters that are able to create gorgeous sprites in no time at all. Although I personally think that we should have at least one jewel based rare that has a crystalline aspect to it. To me, a dragon based on a jewel is lacking if all it takes from the jewel is color.

Edited by Pokemonfan13

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I'm not saying the sprites suggested aren't worthy. All I'm saying is that for a true rare I think you need one that shouts "I'm a rare!" not just by beautiful sprites but also by the bare name.

 

Let's take the Mithrils. When you think of mithril (by whatever spelling is chosen, since there are multiple out there) don't you think "That should be a very rare and precious thing" because of the lore associated with the name? Of course, the current sprites don't live up that that. They totally need redone anyway. I just haven't gotten around to it. But that's an example of a concept that carries the perception of rarity just by the name alone.

 

Diamond would be another example. Most precious gems and metals would. That's something though that I think should enter into the thought process when one considers requesting new rares.

Great food for thought.

 

I think there's an achievable balance: maybe some of those rarity-evocative sprites could be improved/redone- Mithril is almost 5 years old, maybe the spriter would accept to work on it smile.gif

 

At the same time, there must be some sprites that, just looking at them, thanks to the wow-factor, rarity comes to mind. For example, I'm a bit partial to the TangleWyrm and the colors are already jewel-like, aren't they: mother-of-pearl maybe? The name is not very evocative and the sprite is almost 6 years old but... if LadyLyzar would accept to review it, maybe even rename it?

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Fiona has a good point. Rare things are usually rare because there's such a high demand that outweighs the supply. If every person on the site suddenly began demanding CB Blusangs, they might become more valuable than both CB metals combined! Of course, ratios also have a say in the rarity; I imagine a BlusangxGold pairing will always tend to give you Blusangs rather than Golds, and that would help balance out the supply and demand problem where perceived value is higher than real value.

I honestly thought the Sapphire Dragons would be a rare release, but I always seem to find one whenever I'm looking for a Gemshard. So I wouldn't be opposed to a release of a few new rare dragons, but only a few. Releasing a ton at once just doesn't seem like a good idea to me... I'm not sure how to explain it. One every other release though would be nice, just to give the market something new.

 

One could always make a DR for a rare dragon too, though I think they're fewer because A ) Everyone wants to have a chance to be able to catch a dragon (as danicast said, where there is a lot of negative feedback whenever the question of a release being rare is raised), and B ) It's in the Dragon Request Guidelines that TJ would rather release a Common/Uncommon dragon as opposed to a Rare:

When it comes to concepts, not every concept has to be special or have something to make it completely different than any other dragon. The site can't have more "rare" dragons (enchanted dragons like the paper dragon, half-animal dragons) than common ones. Someone needs to come up with the common breeds of dragons to.

Look at it from my perspective:

Why should I implement 20 dragon suggestions if they're all going to be rare and account for less than five percent of all dragons?

 

Thus, it is important to keep the "rarity" of the dragon in mind when creating a suggestion. The site needs common dragons just as much as it needs rare ones, if not more. Don't be afraid to do something similar to what's been done before.

 

This actually has me thinking; are the ratios really that out of balance? And if they are, is it the result of players breeding their rares to try and obtain more rares, as opposed to there just not being enough rares to choose from?

*Shrug* I'm on the fence on this one now. It seems like a good idea, but I'm doubtful that it would actually impact anything... Releasing one more rare might not hurt though...

Edited by skwerl56767

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Great food for thought.

 

I think there's an achievable balance: maybe some of those rarity-evocative sprites could be improved/redone- Mithril is almost 5 years old, maybe the spriter would accept to work on it smile.gif

Uh, _Sin_, the reason I put that the way I did is because I'm the conceptor and principal sprite artist for the current Mithrils. They need redone desperately, probably starting with brand new sketches. (Though I do still like the sketches that Sif drew based on my rough concept sketches... but they've too much wing and not enough detail on the dragon.)

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Actually... I believe that to release only one or two real rares would be counter-productive. The outcome would be that, instead of catching Golds and Silvers, the fast catchers would be catching Golds, Silvers and NewRare. That would not improve anything, would not open the market, would just make things worse. At the same time, while I would like to see at least 10 to 20 more real rares available, there is no pressing need to release them all at once. Let's say one per quarter?

And be the case that older sprites are redone and/or new sprites are created, that would still need time... at least a few weeks?

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