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Romulan

Could there be a Metals only event?

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Making metals so widely available would damage their ratios for a long time, leave out people who missed the event, and kinda ruin the point of them being rares to begin with. I support the store instead, since that gives everyone a way to earn up to them in time without making them common and ruining the reward.

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Even if the metals given out didn't affect the ratios, their children would. If you don't want to affect the ratios, you've have to make these CB metals unbreedable, which defeats the purpose.

 

Rares are RARE. If you desperately want one, bred ones are readily available. But no one wants those, they want the valuable ones. But if everyone has the valuable ones, they aren't valuable anymore.

 

My one and only CB Silver I got by trading away 3 CB Caligene (Halloween dragon) eggs. I still have 4 of those for myself. So don't say you have to have a CB Prize to trade for CB metals.

 

Finally, don't be so hostile. You're starting to sound really aggressive, like we're only saying this because we're veterans. The only dragons that new players don't have an equal chance at are retired ones like Frills and CB Hollies.

 

 

And now... Slogan Salamence.

user posted image

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So Fine -2 days and have it announced well in advance so that way

Honestly,I dont understand how bots are not caught more often, since there is an action log for each of our scrolls that means there is a source in the database for tracking all actions. A simple query alert could be setup to track people that are consistently catching metals and only metals or metals and rares.  This could be combined with tracking for scrolls that auto relay the rares/metals to same scrolls consistently, or even do the scroll jumping.

Far from me to discuss the technical part, that's TJ's domain but... [$0.02]In the business world, choices are made, based on cost benefit analysis. Logging/audit trail is used mostly for critical applications. When logging exists, log storage (for eventual post-review) is quite more common than real time processing. Why? Because real-time logs correlation is a burden. Furthermore, we do not know which information is logged, other than what we see in our scroll action log.[/$0.02]

Anyway... multi-scrolls are identified and reported. And disabled.

Edited by _Sin_

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*snip*

 

Frankly its unfair that a majority of us cant catch rares due to bots and multi-scrolling.

 

Honestly,I dont understand how bots are not caught more often, since there is an action log for each of our scrolls that means there is a source in the database for tracking all actions. A simple query alert could be setup to track people that are consistently catching metals and only metals or metals and rares. This could be combined with tracking for scrolls that auto relay the rares/metals to same scrolls consistently, or even do the scroll jumping.

 

Also its unfair the people who breed super messy lineages of rares or commons and toss them in the APs just for the purpose of screwing up the ratios. I cant remember the last time I saw a CB mint in the biomes and I know its due to whoever it is, filling up the AP with a wall of Mints at least once a week.

Not only are Mints IN the Cave, but they drop very commonly too. Someone recently completed a large IOU (60 hatchies) to me, and I gave them an option of a half-dozen commons. Mints, Teimarrs, Cassares, and Nocturns were on the list. I was expecting mostly Teimarrs, but guess what I got most of? Mints and Nocs! I also *regularly* snag Mint eggs out of the AP... CB Mint eggs!

 

So they are there, they are just *popular*... thanks to that mass-breeder!

 

As for tossing stuff to the AP, most commons / blockers are desperately in *need* of the extra eggs, messy or not.

 

Botters and multis.... Meh. They are a big problem (bigger I think than the admin thinks), but there's nothing we can do to crack down on them except report suspect cases. As such, I choose to NOT let them rule my game.

 

90% of the problems you are railing against come down to stagnant Biomes that *only* move every 5 minutes on the dot for about 3 seconds, with the same breeds replacing those just removed. The thread to kick CBs to the AP after 5 minutes would help this a lot. So would lots of other threads. There are also about 4 different idea threads to help with the breeding issues. The problem is not ideas to deal with both stagnant biomes and Common x common breeding, its that TJ hasn't implemented any of them.

 

So STILL no support. There are many other ideas out there, that offer PERMANENT fixes to the actual problems (can't catch golds is only a symptom of stagnant biomes).

 

Lastly, and I hate to say it, but... Rares are meant to be *rare*. If everyone could catch them with no work, then they aren't rare any more. I had to work hard for most of my metals, haunting trade threads and the like. Anyone can do it, if you put effort into it. And there ARE people who accept CB common hatchie IOUs. For instance.... someone could parlay CB hatchies to get, say... a 2nd gen Spriter Alt. Which they then traded for CB Golds. Or similar ways of swapping things around to get what you want. Yes, its WORK. Its supposed to be. They are rares!

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

PS: I turn down offers of CB Golds and CB Silvers: I have what I want of them and want no more.

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This is a lovely idea, but I'm going to have to say no support. Though I've only caught three CB silvers and a few CB coppers in the time that I've been here, I'd hate to experience whatever kind of metal drought this would cause. It's better for the metals to be few and far between than non-existent.

 

If there was an introduction of a new rare that could get the biomes moving and attention taken away from the "traditional metals", that might help. I seem to recall metals being easier to obtain when biomes are moving due to new releases. I also want to reiterate the store/trader canyon/ mana collection suggestions as they propose access to metals without outright tinkering with the current drop system.

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If there was an introduction of a new rare that could get the biomes moving and attention taken away from the "traditional metals", that might help. I seem to recall metals being easier to obtain when biomes are moving due to new releases.

I would go further. If a real rare (at least at Copper level, possibly at Gold level, possibly a metal) was released every year, there would be diversification. Some people would keep chasing after Golds but the best catchers would hunt for the new sprites. Not only the biomes would move faster, there would be more balance. I'm aware that I'm not saying anything new, just parroting concepts previously expressed by others.

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Re: Store thread, seems like a lot of work and I still dont see how it d stop people who are multi scrolling to pile up mana.

 

So, its even more wide spread. I though 4+years without catching a CB Gold or Silver was bad.

 

Re: dont say its a CB Prize needed: if you read back I said there are 3 things ppl tend to want for CB Golds or Silvers. CB Prize being one of them.

 

Re: 0.02. - agreed its TJs build. Im just asking since I deal with databases as part of my job so writing such queries is something I do all the time to track and monitor things. Which if bots are an issue Id see it as a quick way to flag scrolls that need review.

 

Stagnant biomes, along with limited max amount allowed per time span, and the 4 hour cool down time -all add to the frustration during new releases. Heck Id love a biome that only bred commons -would make it alot.png easier for people who are trying to get all the breeds.

 

Xeno's are rare yet thats okay -we still see them and people I talk to are able to catch them -some more than others. The only ones that seem to be uncatchable to a majority of players is the 3 metals. It feels like players are getting punished for the bad behavior (multi scrolling and bots) of others.

 

Ive been in need of a 2 CB Silver and a CB gold so that I can finish several lineages.

 

Stores has sorta the right idea. Id prefer it to be more of a general achievement. -maybe when you achieve 1000, 2000, 3000 dragons on a scroll you can choose a dragon egg. A single egg wouldnt drastically devalue eggs and it could be flagged as not release-able.

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@Romulan:

I agree that CB Golds are hard to find but I see a lot of trades with CB Silvers and even more with Coppers. Sometimes it is just hard work and luck on finding the right trade.

To give you an example: I was looking for a 2nd Gen Prize, found out that someone would trade an offspring of her CB for 75 hatchies. At that point I decided that would be great to "glomp" someone with a second one. Well, 150+ hatchies later, I can say that was not that hard.

Edited by _Sin_

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I think you're kinda exaggerating the problem of multi-scrolling and bots... And for the store idea, instead of stopping the two, it's a way to make rares more accessible for all, which can't be a bad thing, right? That way the bots/multi-scrollers have no power, more or less.

 

And I joined in.. What, '10, and only seen one CB silver, much less caught it ((the ones I have, I traded for)). Didn't see hair nor hide of a CB gold ever ((the one I have is from a very kind friend)). While I might not be the best example, there are people who would trade stuff that you can probably get that you can then trade for a CB metal.

 

IIRC, coppers weren't even supposed to be rare until some people thought they were and started grabbing them like mad.

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Basically it comes down to you all say no you wont support it cause you think the ratios will get messed up and all of us newer players are just SOL.

I just want to say I have been playing for 5 years now and only have one CB metal. That is due to someone amazing gifting me one.

 

Yes I wish I could grab one or even see one. It would definitely be nice. I know of people that catch them spend hours and hours at a time on their computer.

 

Yes it is hard, but if they were not, then they would have no rare trade value.

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*snip*

 

Xeno's are rare yet thats okay -we still see them and people I talk to are able to catch them -some more than others. The only ones that seem to be uncatchable to a majority of players is the 3 metals. It feels like players are getting punished for the bad behavior (multi scrolling and bots) of others.  

Xenowyrms are classed as Rare, while Golds and Silvers are classed as Very Rare. it's not unfair that it's comparably easier to catch a Xeno than a metallic it's simply how they're coded into the site.

 

no one is getting punished for multi-scrolling except for the people who are doing the multi-scrolling. the trouble in catching CB metallics can't be entirely blamed on people who cheat since their original ratios and rarity just make it all the more difficult to catch them, and as evidenced by all the caveborn metallics in trade threads it certainly is possible to do so and quite often. it's just a matter of time and reflexes. with, of course, a portion of luck. just because it's difficult, doesn't mean it's unfair or a punishment.

 

like beiningtian said I think you're exaggerating exactly how much of a problem multi-scrolling is, as if every single player who has more than 2 or 3 caveborn metallics are all doing it. it's certainly a problem but I just don't think it's why it's so hard to catch rare dragons.

 

EDIT: and realistically, it's not like the people who CAN catch CB rares are just hoarding them for themselves. many give them away to those who are without. there's even a thread called Caveborn Gifters who aim to do exactly that; people who are faster and have more time can help catch rare eggs for those who just don't have good luck. and besides that, people are more than willing to breed 2nd Gen metallic eggs for people who need them. I personally breed metallics all the time for people who aren't quite as lucky.

Edited by CowlRaven

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I'd like to say, since July 2009, I have only caught 2 CB Silvers. I gifted my second CB Silver to someone who is not around anymore, and that makes me very sad. I traded for my 2 CB Golds, and my other 2 CB Silvers (thank you very much wub.gif, you know who you are!)

 

So, it's not only new players who have bad luck catching CB Metals, it's old players as well.

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I think there's a problem with the extreme rarity of metals, but this suggestion probably wouldn't be the best way to solve it. It's a very short term solution that would satisfy a few users, but after that, metals would still be impossibly rare. I think it'd be better to lower their rarity a bit so they'd be seen by players more than ~2 times per year (the total amount of golds I've seen in my entire time here).

Edited by Niyaka

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Would a slight change in rarity for a specific period, like the one that caused the CB Metals everywhere season, be acceptable? I'm not suggesting it, just looking for opinions.

Not if it's followed by the complete drought of CB metals, which is what usually happens immediately after a glut.

 

Basically it comes down to you all say no you wont support it cause you think the ratios will get messed up

We don't think, we know. Many of the people in this thread have lived it. Yes, your suggestion of tagged metals would probably bypass the ratios. But that wasn't your initial suggestion and it isn't what people are discussing when they point out that a glut of metals will trash the ratios. We're also saying we won't support it for a variety of other reasons which have little to do with ratios.

 

and all of us newer players are just SOL.

Nah. Some newer players are quite well off via luck in the prize raffle, or via ND experiments, or via making bulk trades of hatchies for CB rares. Some older players still have small scrolls without many rares. This isn't as cut-and-dried along age lines as you make it out to be.

 

multi scrolling and bots are illegal and will get scroll burned. yet thats still happening which is causing people to not have a chance at rares which turns them into un reacheable -and is not what they are intended to be.

Are you arguing bots and multis are solely responsible for the rarity of metals? Because I would disagree with you. The ratios are constantly in a state of flux. Sometimes things are more common and sometimes things are less common. I've pointed out, across at least a dozen threads now, that CB blacks and stripes used to be as rare and prized as almandines and spessartines are now. But now, those same CB blacks and stripes sit in a biome and people cheerfully pass over them until they get reshuffled away. Whiptails used to be ultra-blocker status, as did Spitfires. Both are still reasonably common, but not in the "there are three Whiptails/Spitfires blocking the cave again" sort of way they used to be. Things change, ratios change, metals are apparently going through a dry spell. There doesn't need to be a big bad wolf responsible for every undesired thing that happens in DC.

 

Frankly its unfair that a majority of us cant catch rares due to bots and multi-scrolling.

If a majority of people have rares, I would argue they're no longer rare.

 

Honestly,I dont understand how bots are not caught more often

None of us is TJ. None of us knows how often he catches and burns bots and multis. Every so often someone stupid decides to make a million scrolls and make it blatantly obvious what they're doing, and then people scream "omg look at the multi TJ isn't doing his job." I rather suspect he burns more than you think he does and more than you give him credit for.

 

Also its unfair the people who breed super messy lineages of rares or commons and toss them in the APs just for the purpose of screwing up the ratios.  I cant remember the last time I saw a CB mint in the biomes and I know its due to whoever it is, filling up the AP with a wall of Mints at least once a week.

Sigh. This is another issue entirely. You're also assuming malicious intent, which is something of a fallacy in its own right. Never attribute to malicious intent what can be chalked up to stupidity or, in the case of DC, alternate playstyle. There's nothing wrong with lineaged metals. I happen to rather like certain lineaged metals because the lineages are pretty. Also realize your attack cuts both ways - the people trying to breed pretty things could just as easily argue your attempts to get a CB metal are screwing them out of their lineages.

 

If someone is breeding things that are just too messy for you to deal with, go get some vampires and bite them. Or hatch them, freeze them, and release them. Or raise them and release them. Any of the three is fine for removing a dragon from the ratio-counted population.

 

I support the store instead, since that gives everyone a way to earn up to them in time without making them common and ruining the reward.

Agree. (As an aside, the store has quite the diverse coalition supporting it, with quite the diverse set of reasons. I almost think the suggestion has to eventually succeed if only for that.)

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I'm really not for changes that don't really address the issue you have.

 

So we have a two-day mass drop of rares? What then? Some people finally caught a rare, some people boosted their collections (they're already good at catching/trading for rares, them being commons isn't going to make it harder), and some people completely missed out. Then new people join and they've also missed out.

 

What then? People don't like the rare drop so rares drop like commons for a few days every year? They're no longer rares at that point and their drop style no longer makes sense or is easy to follow.

 

If you've got a problem (ie you believe that rares are too rare or that players should be rewarded for their loyalty with a rare some time into the game), then please make a suggestion to fix that. Let's address the root of your problem instead of doing a wacky event that doesn't address anything. ^^

 

Frankly its unfair that a majority of us cant catch rares due to bots and multi-scrolling.

If you're going to make a bold claim like this, please have some evidence. For example, it'd be fantastic if you could PM a mod or TJ all these multi'ers and cheaters you know of.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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First let me start off by saying I do not think you have tried everything (at least going by your posts) in trying to obtain metal. Sure I have seen quite few during the hourly mark. Yet I have seen just as many in between the five minute marks, not ON but for example at xx:22. A lot of it is simply timing and being in the biome at just the correct time. For example in my 4 years of playing I have seen total of only 4 Silvers in the cave (yet somehow lucky enough to get 2 of those) where I have seen lots more of Golds (and only able to get 1 though seen lots more). My wife on the other hand claims the exact opposite, she has seen lots of Silver and very few Gold.

 

You also can do some rather difficult tasks in obtaining one as well, some will trade for tons of hatchies or are other various threads which give chance of obtaining one or even create a Neglected to trade for one. One way is to actually make the biomes move, the more eggs that get cycled thru by nature means the more chance of seeing one.

 

As to your suggestion, yes it sounds nice, but sorry I just cant support.

2 day drop:

This will just cause more drama and hassle than a normal release. There will still be tons of players that will not be able to get one, especially more so since EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE will definitely be trying to get as many as possible. There will always players that simply wont be able to make w/e 2 days those are. And what about players that start just after this? They will want one as well, so what than, we do this on regular basis? Sorry but this will just cause nothing but more grief and complaining anyway I look at it. More complaining about all those lucky enough to get some trading them, more complaining from ones that werent able too even though they tried, more from those who missed it, etc.

 

Tagged/flagged metal not count towards ratio:

Once again sounds good initially, but ultimately this will still indirectly impact ratios and make the current situation worse that it is now. They will still be traded which will impact false player rarity initially. Which means Metals will no longer be considered Rare, since there are tons of them up for trade (not counting fact that since are not rare atm they are no longer special). Afterwards, all those will be bred in far greater numbers than what is bred now which will just keep the future ratios of CB nearly extinct, but hey lots more have them so they will just keep breeding those plus all their prior bred ones.

 

Frankly its unfair that a majority of us cant catch rares:

Well yea it is, but that is kinda the point of having rares, otherwise what would be the appeal and attraction if anyone could just go out and get all of everything they want.

 

In the end I think there are better suggestions that will not cause as much drama and complaints and will be more fair. The "Store" idea is one, another could just be to do a one time like holiday free gift for finishing holiday event. If you finish the event you get choice of choosing one ADULT metal. That would still throw off their ratios some, but at least that way any active player would have 1 at least that they cant trade. I am sure there are other ways I have not thought of too.

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Re: Store thread, seems like a lot of work and I still dont see how it d stop people who are multi scrolling to pile up mana. 

 

So, its even more wide spread. I though 4+years without catching a CB Gold or Silver was bad.

 

Re: dont say its a CB Prize needed: if you read back I said there are 3 things ppl tend to want for CB Golds or Silvers.  CB Prize being one of them. 

 

Re: 0.02. - agreed its TJs build. Im just asking since I deal with databases as part of my job so writing such queries is something I do all the time to track and monitor things.  Which if bots are an issue Id see it as a quick way to flag scrolls that need review.

 

Stagnant biomes, along with limited max amount allowed per time span, and the 4 hour cool down time -all add to the frustration during new releases.  Heck Id love a biome that only bred commons -would make it alot.png easier for people who are trying to get all the breeds.

 

Stores has sorta the right idea. Id prefer it to be more of a general achievement. -maybe when you achieve  1000, 2000, 3000 dragons on a scroll you can choose a dragon egg. A single egg wouldnt drastically devalue eggs and it could be flagged as not release-able.

Well, they could stockpile mana on each of their scrolls - but they couldn't transfer mana from one scroll to another. Nor could they send the store-bought eggs to another scroll. Those are two of the proposed and largely agreed-upon safety measures from the store discussion thread.

 

The problem with rewarding people for every 1000th dragon they get with a gold egg / egg of choice is that there are people who don't hoard dragons like some of us do. Some players choose to only have 2, 5 or any other arbitrary number of dragons per breed. That does not mean that they don't deserve to get a rare egg, does it?

 

I agree that stagnant biomes are pretty much the main problem at the moment. Adding incentive to raise eggs would probably help, not to mention a store where you can get the occasional rare egg after a certain amount of time (playing regularly).

 

 

ETA: I think it might also help if dragons on scrolls that get burned by TJ don't count towards the ratios any more. It sure should help with the botters, scripters and multi-scrollers taking all the golds - because there'll be new golds for those taken by confirmed cheaters. (Of course, there'd also be the non-rares they collected - but I got the impression that these cheater scrolls tend to have an inordinately large percentage of rares on them - much more than the general ratios would suggest. So, win-win?)

Edited by olympe

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I think it might also help if dragons on scrolls that get burned by TJ don't count towards the ratios any more. It sure should help with the botters, scripters and multi-scrollers taking all the golds - because there'll be new golds for those taken by confirmed cheaters. (Of course, there'd also be the non-rares they collected - but I got the impression that these cheater scrolls tend to have an inordinately large percentage of rares on them - much more than the general ratios would suggest. So, win-win?)

THIS ! there is one scroll that was just burned that could release a HUGE number of golds if this were done.

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Or one from last year there must have been hundreds of metals on that one alone, as that person constantly had several CB metals up for trade...

 

I just noticed another one burned that assuredly had hundreds of metals. (Several pages worth of them, with my settings allowing me to see 100 dragons per page.)

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Or one from last year there must have been hundreds of metals on that one alone, as that person constantly had several CB metals up for trade...

 

I just noticed another one burned that assuredly had hundreds of metals. (Several pages worth of them, with my settings allowing me to see 100 dragons per page.)

I'd be good with removing dragons from burned scrolls.... provided they don't have offspring. The people who traded in good faith with the cheater shouldn't be punished by having their lineages destroyed.

 

But keep in mind: dragons only count for the first year, and after that..... So, its important to know the age of the dragons.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I'd be good with removing dragons from burned scrolls.... provided they don't have offspring. The people who traded in good faith with the cheater shouldn't be punished by having their lineages destroyed.

 

But keep in mind: dragons only count for the first year, and after that..... So, its important to know the age of the dragons.

 

Cheers!

C4.

The newest ones - the ones that are the big issue - aren't likely to have many children if any, given the rate metals don't breed xd.png Those with more than one or two babies are probably over the year old. And I suspect that most of these grabbers aren't too concerned about BREEDING anyway.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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The problem with rewarding people for every 1000th dragon they get with a gold egg / egg of choice is that there are people who don't hoard dragons like some of us do. Some players choose to only have 2, 5 or any other arbitrary number of dragons per breed. That does not mean that they don't deserve to get a rare egg, does it?

 

ETA: I think it might also help if dragons on scrolls that get burned by TJ don't count towards the ratios any more. It sure should help with the botters, scripters and multi-scrollers taking all the golds - because there'll be new golds for those taken by confirmed cheaters. (Of course, there'd also be the non-rares they collected - but I got the impression that these cheater scrolls tend to have an inordinately large percentage of rares on them - much more than the general ratios would suggest. So, win-win?)

 

 

Yes, that would be a great idea!

 

Regarding reporting, I saw a couple of bad scrolls but the name was hidden. I found it because I was clicking on dragons from one of the hatcheries to get my encyclopedia up and it showed me a scroll that has just about nothing but golds and silvers. (and I think 2 Graves) anyways.

 

heck, Ive considered trying to write up an add on that would let me track whoever adds a scroll to a hatchery. (while it hasnt happened to me, Ive had 3 friends have eggs view bombed to death when they didnt add them into a hatchery -someone else added it)

 

The achievement for the large # of dragons was to help expand beyond the gold trophy level, It could be 1 gold, or later a copper, basically an achievement level to acknowledge people who breed, catch and are increasing their scrolls. (alternately getting a reduction in grow up time would be cool.)

 

For those that dont choose to have large scrolls the store idea would ideal. but the same rules for the dragons could be applied to large scroll achievements too. (non tradeable or releaseable..)

 

 

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Regarding reporting, I saw a couple of bad scrolls but the name was hidden. I found it because I was clicking on dragons from one of the hatcheries to get my encyclopedia up and it showed me a scroll that has just about nothing but golds and silvers. (and I think 2 Graves) anyways.

How did you manage to see a full scroll from dragons in the hatcheries without the scroll name? I'm not doubting, just curious.

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The achievement for the large # of dragons was to help expand beyond the gold trophy level, It could be 1 gold, or later a copper, basically an achievement level to acknowledge people who breed, catch and are increasing their scrolls. (alternately getting a reduction in grow up time would be cool.)

This bit right here made me think of something. Our current trophies are bronze/copper, silver and gold right? How about adding an egg reward for each trophy level? Upon hitting bronze/copper, you get a CB Copper, at silver you get Silver, an at gold you get a Gold. This would be retroactive of course, since a lot of us are already at gold level. This would guarantee everyone gets one of each. And before someone yells cheaters, it's hard to get enough dragons without getting caught for a trophy, and if the scroll's dragons' are deleted its no big deal.

 

 

To get back on topic:

Botters and multis are not that big a problem.

There are not as many as people make it sound like there are, and they get caught at a good clip. My dad does software for a living, and trust me if you know what you're looking for cheaters are very obvious.

 

There is no way to have something like this withou impacting the ratios. If the dragons themselves don't count, their children will, and there will be the impact on user trades as well.

 

We do care about new users. Everyone's a newbie at some point. That's why the mentors and newbie gifting groups exist.

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Yes, that would be a great idea!

 

Regarding reporting, I saw a couple of bad scrolls but the name was hidden. I found it because I was clicking on dragons from one of the hatcheries to get my encyclopedia up and it showed me a scroll that has just about nothing but golds and silvers. (and I think 2 Graves) anyways.

 

heck, Ive considered trying to write up an add on that would let me track whoever adds a scroll to a hatchery. (while it hasnt happened to me, Ive had 3 friends have eggs view bombed to death when they didnt add them into a hatchery -someone else added it)

 

The achievement for the large # of dragons was to help expand beyond the gold trophy level, It could be 1 gold, or later a copper, basically an achievement level to acknowledge people who breed, catch and are increasing their scrolls. (alternately getting a reduction in grow up time would be cool.)

 

For those that dont choose to have large scrolls the store idea would ideal. but the same rules for the dragons could be applied to large scroll achievements too. (non tradeable or releaseable..)

This is essentially what the store would do.

 

You play the game -> points collect over time without you doing anything you don't do anyway.

A few months down the road -> you get a shiny

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

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